Alpha-GPC and Huperzine A for strength?

[SoupNaziNazi]

Was wondering if this would be a good preworkout for acute strength gains. Just to keep it simple, along with my simple understanding of it, Alpha-GPC increase acetylcholine and Huperzine A blocks reuptake of it and from all the extra acetylcholine you have more efficient nerve signals and neurons firing or something along those lines. If I butchered anything or called something by the wrong name please feel free to correct me. Was just wondering if this would be a good preworkout for someone only concerned with strength

 

[The_Old_Guy]

There's been exactly 1 study, so it's anybody's guess:

Acute supplementation with alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine augments growth hormone response to, and peak force production during, resistance exercise

In seven men with at least two years of resistance training given 600mg Alpha-GPC 45 minutes prior to simulated bench throws, supplementation was associated with a greater exercise-induced growth hormone increase and 14% improved power output.

Funding issues for this study:
Supported by ChemNutra. Authors declare no conflict of interest but the supplement used was a product from said company.

Hup-A is more Nootropic (as is A-GPC as well).

 

[The Solution]

Was wondering if this would be a good preworkout for acute strength gains. Just to keep it simple, along with my simple understanding of it, Alpha-GPC increase acetylcholine and Huperzine A blocks reuptake of it and from all the extra acetylcholine you have more efficient nerve signals and neurons firing or something along those lines. If I butchered anything or called something by the wrong name please feel free to correct me. Was just wondering if this would be a good preworkout for someone only concerned with strength

A pre-workout wont really correlate with strength. That is more associated with your dietary intake and meeting a caloric surplus.
What Alpha GPC and Huperzine A could aid would be mental clarity and a longer focus effect during training. These ingredients could help sustain energy for a better workout and provide better results in the gym.

The Old guy said it best, both are used as nootropics to help enhance focus and prolong caffeine half life (if used in conjunction with a stimulant)

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

Thanks fellas, and I do use caffeine aswell so perhaps it would be worth it

 

[The Solution]

Thanks fellas, and I do use caffeine aswell so perhaps it would be worth it

Caffeine would be enhanced due to the power of the nootropics. Meaning a longer lasting stream of energy.

 

[310717970]

I use it for the nootropics effect.....good stuff

 

[T-Bone]

A pre-workout wont really correlate with strength.

I don't agree. Plus it depends on the pre-workout. AppNut had a study posted on strength and caffeine when Uncut was first released.

 

[T-Bone]

Here is part of it. I know it's on here somewhere,
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/applied-nutriceuticals/221097-uncut-new-encapsulated.html

 

[T-Bone]

Read the first post in that thread.

 

[The Solution]

I don't agree. Plus it depends on the pre-workout. AppNut had a study posted on strength and caffeine when Uncut was first released.

Many people may not gain strength taking a pre-workout if their dietary needs and nutrition are not up to par.
Many people can eat in a surplus and won't gain strength because they have bad programming and don't train with proper intensity.
Many people have great progress without caffeine
If caffeine correlated to strength coffee would be praised as a supplement, not always the case.
A study is a study, we can take it with a grain of salt, and helps us further educate, but it does not mean it is the say it all.

People take mass gainers yet still can't gain weight. The reason being they cant supplement a bad diet. Same scenario here. You can take a ton of caffeine, but you won't gain strength if everything else is not in check to support strength gains in the gym.

 

[De__eB]

Many people may not gain strength taking a pre-workout if their dietary needs and nutrition are not up to par.
Many people can eat in a surplus and won't gain strength because they have bad programming and don't train with proper intensity.
Many people have great progress without caffeine
If caffeine correlated to strength coffee would be praised as a supplement, not always the case.
A study is a study, we can take it with a grain of salt, and helps us further educate, but it does not mean it is the say it all.

People take mass gainers yet still can't gain weight. The reason being they cant supplement a bad diet. Same scenario here. You can take a ton of caffeine, but you won't gain strength if everything else is not in check to support strength gains in the gym.

Some people won't gain strength from a preworkout because everything else they're doing sucks?

No ****.

Many people have great progress with no supplements at all, that doesn't mean there aren't supplements correlated with progress.

Frankly, I don't care what many people with sub-optimal diets are doing, and I would advise them to buy no supplements at all.

That doesn't change that multiple studies show caffeine in high doses increases power output. This is an objective observation.

But I'm sure it's invalid because most people's diet and training sucks, right?

Alpha-GPC also has multiple studies showing increased power output.

 

[alvin1]

I can add that when i take fearn soy lechetin i got a acute boost in strengh from the phosohathidyclonine, similar to the alpha gpc

 

[SDLede]

Alpha-GPC will significantly boost GH during exercise and also at rest. Alpha-GPC also boosted peak bench press force by 14% when compared to placebo. Huperzine A acts to increase GH by inhibiting somatostatin. I have a book on using Alpha-GPC and other supplements to increase growth hormone naturally. It's called 16 Secrets to Boost Growth Hormone by Neil Atsun and Julie Eisenbell. It is on sale for FREE for 24 hours tomorrow (March 6) on Amazon Kindle
If you don't have a kindle you can download a free app for pc or your phone. If you like it please consider leaving a review!

 

[Synapsin]

A-GPC is a great ingredient, but most studies on it require a pretty expensive dose.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Alpha-GPC will significantly boost GH during exercise and also at rest. Alpha-GPC also boosted peak bench press force by 14% when compared to placebo. Huperzine A acts to increase GH by inhibiting somatostatin. I have a book on using Alpha-GPC and other supplements to increase growth hormone naturally. It's called 16 Secrets to Boost Growth Hormone by Neil Atsun and Julie Eisenbell. It is on sale for FREE for 24 hours tomorrow (March 6) on Amazon Kindle
If you don't have a kindle you can download a free app for pc or your phone. If you like it please consider leaving a review!

3g of GABA will also raise GH during heavy exercise. The problem is - transitory increases in hormones like GH and Test, do nothing for body composition. I guess if the substance is cheap as dirt (like GABA), a "why not, it ain't hurting" approach is fine. It's when the substance costs $40/Month that it becomes un-wise for the pocket book IMO.

*** I'm talking minimal increases from natural supplements here - the chemical/soon-to-be-drug MK-677 is in a different league.

 

[SDLede]

That is an interesting point you bring up. I'm curious where you heard that transient increases are useless. I ask because I've heard this relayed every so often but no evidence to back it up - so I'm wondering if it is just being improperly regurgitated. Now granted temporary increases of natural GH will not be as potent as injectable GH, that is a given. But transient increases between (100%-400%) have been proven between to actually shift metabolism to prefer fat oxidation and spare muscle/protein. Anyway just curious if you had any studies that a temporary increase has no effect -- when you think about it, injections are also just temporary increases, they just produce a larger pulse magnitude because of a higher dosage. Let me know if you find anything!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

That is an interesting point you bring up. I'm curious where you heard that transient increases are useless. I ask because I've heard this relayed every so often but no evidence to back it up - so I'm wondering if it is just being improperly regurgitated. Now granted temporary increases of natural GH will not be as potent as injectable GH, that is a given. But transient increases between (100%-400%) have been proven between to actually shift metabolism to prefer fat oxidation and spare muscle/protein. Anyway just curious if you had any studies that a temporary increase has no effect -- when you think about it, injections are also just temporary increases, they just produce a larger pulse magnitude because of a higher dosage. Let me know if you find anything!

Found lots of stuff on Suppversity using the search terms GABA Growth Hormone Choline GPC. Everything says after an exogenous spike, your body compensates by lowering output even more - so after 24hrs, you're about the same as if you didn't supplement at all - Diurnal spikes are lessened, etc... In one study on GPC, there was an 1800% increase, which sounds impressive until you realize the 2 hour AUC was only 6.88x larger after the ingestion of the Alpha-GPC, than after placebo. Which is basically what happens with moderate intensity exercise. ("The GPC-induced increases in GH levels observed in this study were of a comparable degree to the increase induced by moderate-intensity exercise" - Kawamura et. al. 2012)

And let's be honest, even if the effects on growth hormone were GPC specific - people have realized none of those arginine + lysine GH boosters make a difference and not because they would not produce transient increases in GH, but simply because those are physiologically meaningless and mostly compensated for in the course of 24h.

GABA, Choline (Bitartrate, GPC etc..), Arginine and Lysine do create spikes in GH (with resulting negative feedback) - Anyone care to trade in their Injectable GH, MK-677, or GHRH/P for them? Probably not, as we've all learned (by now) they don't really do anything compared to just eating right, training your a$$ off, and sleeping.

 

[SDLede]

Found lots of stuff on Suppversity using the search terms GABA Growth Hormone Choline GPC. Everything says after an exogenous spike, your body compensates by lowering output even more - so after 24hrs, you're about the same as if you didn't supplement at all - Diurnal spikes are lessened, etc... In one study on GPC, there was an 1800% increase, which sounds impressive until you realize the 2 hour AUC was only 6.88x larger after the ingestion of the Alpha-GPC, than after placebo. Which is basically what happens with moderate intensity exercise. ("The GPC-induced increases in GH levels observed in this study were of a comparable degree to the increase induced by moderate-intensity exercise" - Kawamura et. al. 2012)

There is some truth and some inaccuracies here. Whenever you increase GH by a substantial amount, there will be some autonegative feedback. This occurs with exercise as well. A transient suppression follows about 2-5 hours later. The suppression lasts for about 1-2 hours. This mechanism, in addition to others, helps keep 24 hour concentrations roughly equivalent or only slightly elevated. Does that mean that a GH pulse from exercise is useless? I would argue that it isn't useless at all. When this pulse occurs your body begins rapidly oxidizing fats for energy while preserving amino acids and carbohydrates. Additionally, during this pulse, IGF-1 is likely increased as well.

That being said, many methods do only have a marginal effect on 24 hour concentrations. It seems the body is hard wired to try and maintain 24 hour concentrations the same. But you should know this also occurs with injectable growth hormone. Larger injectable doses actually exert a far greater auto-negative feeedback effect then smaller natural increases.

Anyway just some food for thought. In all the research I've done it seems that there is substantial evidence that transient increases in GH do in effect exert some substantial benefit. There are some methods out there that increase 24 hour concentrations and there are also ways to bypass the autonegative feedback mechanism. But from everything I've researched, even small increases by 100-400% for 2 hours will still have benefits for the body -- just not at the same level as large injectable doses obviously. Mostly these benefits would be for those trying to cut, as growth hormone is largely anti-catabolic and not really anabolic. Additionally, the longer these increases can be maintained, the more these benefits will extend. Some methods have been shown to elevate concentrations for several hours. Thanks for your input! By the way in case your interested, there was one study that showed GPC increased GH levels during exercise by 44 fold (not a typo) compared with 2.7 fold with placebo (due to natural exercise). That's a pretty ridiculous increase. For a supplement that you should probably be taking anyway, that's not half bad!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

There is some truth and some inaccuracies here. Whenever you increase GH by a substantial amount, there will be some autonegative feedback. This occurs with exercise as well. A transient suppression follows about 2-5 hours later. The suppression lasts for about 1-2 hours. This mechanism, in addition to others, helps keep 24 hour concentrations roughly equivalent or only slightly elevated. Does that mean that a GH pulse from exercise is useless? I would argue that it isn't useless at all. When this pulse occurs your body begins rapidly oxidizing fats for energy while preserving amino acids and carbohydrates. Additionally, during this pulse, IGF-1 is likely increased as well.

That being said, many methods do only have a marginal effect on 24 hour concentrations. It seems the body is hard wired to try and maintain 24 hour concentrations the same. But you should know this also occurs with injectable growth hormone. Larger injectable doses actually exert a far greater auto-negative feeedback effect then smaller natural increases.

Anyway just some food for thought. In all the research I've done it seems that there is substantial evidence that transient increases in GH do in effect exert some substantial benefit. There are some methods out there that increase 24 hour concentrations and there are also ways to bypass the autonegative feedback mechanism. But from everything I've researched, even small increases by 100-400% for 2 hours will still have benefits for the body -- just not at the same level as large injectable doses obviously. Mostly these benefits would be for those trying to cut, as growth hormone is largely anti-catabolic and not really anabolic. Additionally, the longer these increases can be maintained, the more these benefits will extend. Some methods have been shown to elevate concentrations for several hours. Thanks for your input! By the way in case your interested, there was one study that showed GPC increased GH levels during exercise by 44 fold (not a typo) compared with 2.7 fold with placebo (due to natural exercise). That's a pretty ridiculous increase. For a supplement that you should probably be taking anyway, that's not half bad!

Awesome man, enjoy your Choline.

 

[Daycrawler]

Haven't seen the correlation to strength but both are great ingredients in the nootropic world.