Ca-HMB observations after 1 week (+ strength, lbm.?, -bodyfat)

Justlooking5

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I got some Ca-HMB Monday from a reputable bulk powder supplier and decided to give it a try to help with my current 5 week cutting phase where I'm eating reduced calories (~2,000) with a high protein, mod carb/mod fat diet.

I've been training for about 16 years (age 33) though resumed bodybuilding about 1 year ago. I'm pretty familiar with supps as well as gear, though I haven't done gear since 2006. I weigh about 221 lbs. right now with arms at touch over 17" pumped during this low glycogen phase.

Anyway, I started Ca-HMB at 3g/day Monday and increased to 8g/day with my first workout today (Sunday). After initially starting Monday I noticed increased muscle fullness and a better pump, and after 2-3 days I began to see increased midsection definition, including more serratus definition which has been difficult for me to achieve. It was pretty evident that I was losing midsection bodyfat (or at least water).


Today was my first day weight training since starting Monday, and I noticed some pretty impressive results:

One week ago (Sunday 2/14) I did flat bench with 210 x 6 reps, and felt the effects of lower glycogen.

Today (after a week on Ca-HMB) I noticed the weights were moving easier, and I was able to fairly easily do on incline bench 210 x 8. Which is an addition of 5 lbs. and 2 reps simultaenously compared to my prior incline bench workout.

I continued to have solid strength on all my other exercises, maintaining dumbbell shoulder presses 70s x 5, and feeling strong on several new exercises I switched to this week (so no comparison point).

The bench press results however are pretty impressive to me. It has been kind of difficult for me to move from 205 to 225 for solid reps on the incline, yet today, despite being on low carbs/calories and clearly leaner, I was able to complete 8 smooth reps with 210.
I also clearly looked quite a bit leaner in the chest/shoulder area with increased vascularity.
Additionally, I weighed myself today and was 228 (which includes water weight b/c I drink a lot of water during training) but that suggests I have not lost much weight as when I weighed myself last week I was about 224. Arms pumped were a bit over 17", last week they were about 17" even.

Anyway tldr:

Cutting on low carbs/cals.
Taking HMB at 4x 1-2g/day (3-8g) for one week.
Increased incline bench from previous workout +5 lbs. and +2 reps (which would be decent when bulking let alone cutting)
Very noticeable fat loss in midsection, chest, shoulders, and increased vascularity
Weight increase (measured post-workout) from ~224 last week to 228 this week suggesting minimal LBM loss or even gain, though weight is confounded b/c I drink a lot of water during training.

So far I am pretty impressed with HMB. I'm going to try it at 8g/day based on some articles I read and it's cheap enough so why not. I wouldn't go so far as to say it feels like deca, but it does feel reasonably "drug like," although not as pronounced as gear. Additionally, I am more on the ecto side of things (probably 70/30 ecto/meso) and was thinking perhaps anti-catabolic agents work better for people who tend towards catabolism.
 

NewAgeMayan

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What were the articles that have lead you to consider dosing 8gm?
 
Justlooking5

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This guys' experience is part of it: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast7.htm

Also based on the no adverse event data in rats on a study posted in the other HMB thread on the first page or two of this forum that said something like rats/mice had no issues at an equivalent dose of 60+g/day. Generally I have found that increasing supp doses a bit more than the "standard" dose can be helpful. I think it's logical also that someone who is 220+ may need a bit higher dose than someone who is 150 lbs, but the standard "3 g/day" dose is recommended to people regardless of weight. Also, I'm taking Ca-HMB and several recent studies showing positive results used the FA form as we all know which has supposedly higher bioavailability.
 
smallba

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Are you gonna continue to log this? I'm pretty curious after reading the other post and this
 
The_Old_Guy

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i have some capsules of the Ca-HMB, i see the powder is dirt cheap, I'm gonna have to give this a go soon
Yup, cheaper than Soy Lecithin Granules :) How the times have changed - in the 90's HMB-Ca was at current HMB-FA prices... not anymore! :)
 

ma70

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Yup, cheaper than Soy Lecithin Granules :) How the times have changed - in the 90's HMB-Ca was at current HMB-FA prices... not anymore! :)
Got any places where you can get this HMB-CA in bulk capped?
 

ma70

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Check out amazon, there was some i did see big supple of capsules
Well, I mainly asked because I want a tried/trusted source. It's not like Amazon is filled with BS, but you know, I like making sure I'm buying real stuff.
 
smallba

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Well, I mainly asked because I want a tried/trusted source. It's not like Amazon is filled with BS, but you know, I like making sure I'm buying real stuff.
Definitely understand that
 
jalfrey

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.13/gram * 1000 grams(Kg) = $130.00

Amirite? Math is one of the least impressive of my skills. Only wondering because the cheapest I can find HMB in bulk is around $47/Kg.

edit: derp...conversation escalated while I was testing my math.
 
smallba

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.13/gram * 1000 grams(Kg) = $130.00

Amirite? Math is one of the least impressive of my skills. Only wondering because the cheapest I can find HMB in bulk is around $47/Kg.

edit: derp...conversation escalated while I was testing my math.
they broke it down as:

$0.05/gram = 1 Kilo

$0.06/gram = 500 gram

$0.07/gram = 250 gram

$0.13/gram = 100 gram

That's for bulksupplement powder
 

aasdferic

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I remember reading somewhere that HMB is great for muscle preservation like during PCT but not that great for cutting as it inhibits fat loss...can someone confirm that??
 

AKM007

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Users tend to observe a thinning midsection...take it as you may...
 

NewAgeMayan

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I remember reading somewhere that HMB is great for muscle preservation like during PCT but not that great for cutting as it inhibits fat loss...can someone confirm that??
It would appear the term 'anti catabolic' tends to be a bit crude in certain contexts.
 
The_Old_Guy

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I remember reading somewhere that HMB is great for muscle preservation like during PCT but not that great for cutting as it inhibits fat loss...can someone confirm that??
Not if you don't starve yourself and over-train at the same time...it's discussed in one of the other HMB threads.
 
jgntyce

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Not if you don't starve yourself and over-train at the same time...it's discussed in one of the other HMB threads.
Would HMB help during marathon training? Would that be considered an over reaching type of training?
 
The_Old_Guy

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Would HMB help during marathon training? Would that be considered an over reaching type of training?
No idea man - I just regurgitate stuff I research... I just happen to research a lot :) I don't see how it could hurt anything - are you a *fat* marathon runner trying to lose fat by starving yourself and being chronically over-trained?
 

ma70

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Overreaching is simply adding a lot of stuff you're normally not capable of recovering from. So yes, marathon training CAN be overreaching if you go from an untrained runner to someone trying to run 200 miles a day while maintaining your normal lifting schedule. (drastic example)
 

jathan_howe

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At this cheap cost, would it be worth it to use year round with regular training? Or does it pretty much only work when over training?
 
The_Old_Guy

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At this cheap cost, would it be worth it to use year round with regular training? Or does it pretty much only work when over training?
I use it year round. And HMB-Ca has nothing to do with over-training, or should I say, doesn't have to. Most of the studies linked in this and other threads is with regular rested athletes (ie. not over-trained). The HMB-FA study used the Over-reaching protocol.
 
Justlooking5

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I'll keep updating this weekly. I have been taking 4 x 2g HMB per day, with the rationale discussed above.

I am doing a Doggcrap style training routine (training each bodypart once weekly however due to work) which has worked quite well for me. This week I did quads/hams/biceps/calves on Friday and chest/back/shoulders/triceps/traps today.

Other relevant changes include I completed my 5 week cutting phase and have been eating maintenance calories for the past two days.
I will be focused on lean gaining and continued fat loss (if possible) for the next 8 weeks with a high protein moderate fat/carb maintenance calorie diet. I also added Longjack 100:1 at 4-800mg/day which I will be taking for the next 5 weeks. I have taken it before and noticed some benefit but not significant strength increases so I don't think it will confound the HMB observations too much, though I did not take the TA daily before. I'm also adding SL 2 tbsp. on training days only because I think it caused some fat gain with daily use.

tldr:

On Friday (legs/biceps/abs) I noticed the following:

Maintained strength/reps on barbell hack squats from previous workout.
Very good strength on romanian deadlifts
Likely near pr-strength on barbell curls which I just started back this week. I definitely felt I was able to complete an additional rep or two on this exercise that would have been more difficult before.

Today chest/back/shoulders/triceps:

Because I was able to do 210 x 8 incline barbell last week, I thought I would try 225 on flat today. While I was able to do 225 x 5,1 rest/pause, my ROM was crappy and I still felt like I was not able to handle it as well as even 210. It could be a psychological reluctance to go too far down on the reps because I don't have a spotter, but I think it's more that I will have to do 215 and then perhaps 220 for solid ROM first before going to 225.

On back I was able to increase T-bar rows (felt stronger) +2.5 lbs. and +2 reps from the previous workout 2 weeks ago. Also increased 1 rep on CG pulldowns.

On shoulders I had a more impressive experience doing rest pause. Usually when I do a straight set of seated barbell presses, my shoulders are exhausted and I can't get the weight up for another rep after the 12-15 sec pause. This time however I was able to do 135 x 8,1, getting that additional rep.

For triceps one sided dumbell raises I was able to go from 32.5 x 5 to 40 x 6 on the right arm, though I had less shoulder stability on my left arm.

Today my arms measures slightly less than 17" pumped which is a minor decrease from last week when they were slightly over 17".

Subjective observations

Subjectively, I definitely looked fuller, leaner, and now have vascularity on my shoulders, biceps, etc., which was elusive until the last couple weeks after my winter bulk. I also look "enhanced," though not gear enhanced. I wouldn't be surprised though if I got questions about what I am taking, though I don't chat a whole lot at the gym.

Also, HMB seems to give me a kind of muscle fullness/strength that does honestly remind me a little of what gear feels like. It's sort of hard to explain but it's there. And I think the fat loss has been e****lent. It also has given me I think a more "muscular" and harder/vascular look.

One other thing: my endurance and recovery has been great. I was essentially not sore at all after legs Friday, and today in the gym I basically had as much energy after my 80 min or so training session (chest/back/shoulders/tris/traps) as when I started. Usually I definitely would be more fatigued. This was very noticeable.

Overall I am quite pleased with HMB so far and would at this point put it in my top 3-5 supps, though it is still early to see results as I've onyl been taking it for about 14 days. I'm hoping that once I have been on maintenance calories for a bit longer I will start to see more strength/muscle gains with continued leaness/vascularity.
 
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