Liver supplement- health regime for a healthy liver

[harrybrah]

supp guys! been doing a bit of research myself on products for optimal liver health, after being on antibiotics for a long time/ drinking alcohol my liver is a bit rubbed up. So I'm doing a lot to give back to it.

Current supplements as follows:

Milk thistle standardized extract: 1000mg
NAC- 1.5 grams
SAM-e- 200-400mg daily
Fish oil- 3-9 grams
Curcumin- 1000mg-2000mg
Multivitamin: optimen
Apple cider vinegar- 1-3 tablespoons a day.
Vit c -1-4 grams a day.

How do you think this looks guys? I've done extra research and thought about adding Tudca- 200-500mg per day as its proven for the liver/ possible Liv 52( himalaya product has good reviews/clinical trials to show efficacy).

cheers!

are all these good to stack in conjunction ?

 

[ELROCK]

That looks pretty complete to me. Unless you are on methylated PHs. If so add in the TUDCA. Add black pepper extract to your curcumin and take with your fish oils.

 

[Afi140]

Don't waste your money on liv52. Set up is fine.

I normally use NAC and or TUDCA both on and off cycle at different times depending. TUDCA is pricey but it is by far the best OTC liver supp out. Helps bilirubin and overall levels and NAC will help ast/alt levels.

 

[harrybrah]

sweet cheers! for that information.

my Coq10 has 5mg of black pepper extract, so ill just take that+ fish oil+ curcumin together.

do you have any suggestions on spacing out the liver supps? eg milk thistle morning 2 caps= 300mg, mid day 2 caps= 300mg, night- 2-3caps-300-450mg

NAC take 1000mg morning with milk thistle, then 500mg with milk thistle at night.

SAM-e afternoon on empty stomach( as much as possible for best absorption) 400mg( 2 200mg tabs).

Apple cider vinegar sipped on throughout day.

how does that sound? cheers bud!

 

[harrybrah]

thanks for that information bro.

Yeah! read some awesome things about tudca, yeah read some people steering away from Liv 52. So many people purport amazing liver enzymes/ it helping them all over amazon/iherb. Did you personally try/ it did not work? BIOS3 uses and he says its good, but its all mixed information. It sounds like a placebo aphrodisiac supplement imo lol.

 

[Woody]

You're supposed to not drink and use Tudca right? I.E. If I drink a glass of wine with dinner I'll cause more harm than good?

 

[harrybrah]

ive quit all alcohol. Not sure what you're getting at with drinking wine with food, red wine is also good for you. (trans-reservatrol.) the only thing it'd do is cause weight gain, considering its high in calories lol.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Just be careful about mega-dosing antioxidants - can impact responses to training.

 

[harrybrah]

will do, however i dont think i'm " mega dosing" but i definitely do have a lot of antioxidants thats for sure. They do compliment each other in some ways, i should;ve probably included that i take a vegetable greens powder/ Trans-reservatrol-300mg. However was mainly aimed at asking about liver.

Do you think my combination of supplements isn't safe? ive seen loads of people run more/ if not similar supplement stacks. Cheers

 

[The_Old_Guy]

will do, however i dont think i'm " mega dosing" but i definitely do have a lot of antioxidants thats for sure. They do compliment each other in some ways, i should;ve probably included that i take a vegetable greens powder/ Trans-reservatrol-300mg. However was mainly aimed at asking about liver.

Do you think my combination of supplements isn't safe? ive seen loads of people run more/ if not similar supplement stacks. Cheers

Some reading here:

http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2015/07/bad-news-for-vitamin-fans-c-e.html

 

[kbayne]

If you went with TUDCA at 250-500mg and NAC at 1-2 grams per day, you'd be set up great as those two alone will do wonders.

The additional supplementation you have is solid as well.

 

[harrybrah]

Sweet , thanks for that information. Yep did quite a bit of research and think this is quite a solid stack

Tudca is king from research. Every time I take SAM-E my liver just feels better. It's quite odd, but it definitely works really well, especially for my mood +1.

Is 2 grams of NAC good? I've read people say it turns into a pro oxidative > which is worse than to begin with, but albeit there's so many conflicting results / views / information. Studies show you you can up to 2400mg or even more.

Do you recommend 2 grams ?

I'll order some Tudca and throw it in, as I need anything for this liver. Doing some routine liver blood tests tomorrow, hopefully levels come back clean.

 

[Afi140]

I take 2 or3 600mg NAC depending so 1800mg to 2 grams should be fine but I wouldn't exceed that. CEL and OL TUDCA are the quality brands with purity tests.

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/tudca-by-olympus-labs

 

[GreekTheBrick]

For liver repair I would only use TUDCA/UDCA and maybe NAC, as all these are metabolized in the liver(but vit.C)

 

[ELROCK]

You're supposed to not drink and use Tudca right? I.E. If I drink a glass of wine with dinner I'll cause more harm than good?

I don't think the one drink will effect things one way or the other. But, that is why I don't use TUDCA because I do have some drinks on occasion and I wouldn't want that interaction to hurt the liver when I am trying to protect it. Now, if I were running PHs I would definitely use TUDCA and just cut out the alcohol completely for the cycle.

 

[FireRescue]

Every time I take SAM-E my liver just feels better. It's quite odd, but it definitely works really well, especially for my mood

In regards to SAMe it is apparently great for liver protection and does not seem to get much mention. For those that have been reading this forum long enough, Dr. Houser used to recommend it to guys running oral PH's.

 

[harrybrah]

Also, forgot to mention my bad.

I have Acetyl-L-Carnitine and take 2-3 grams a day also. ACLAR is also great for your liver/heart/ fat loss.

As for SAM-e yes its a amazing supplement especially for your liver, however to achieve the best benefits you need to take around 800-1200mg a day, im taking 400mg which is sufficient for mild liver issues. If severe id dose upto 1200mg.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Have you had a blood draw to check liver values, or are you just guessing that it is jacked up?

 

[harrybrah]

ive had a few past liver exams, slightly elevated enzymes in the liver, however doc wasn't concerned too much. BUt he';d like to monitor it, incase it increases.

hoping that these can bring the enzymes back into gear, if thats possible.

 

[ELROCK]

ive had a few past liver exams, slightly elevated enzymes in the liver, however doc wasn't concerned too much. BUt he';d like to monitor it, incase it increases.

hoping that these can bring the enzymes back into gear, if thats possible.

Yes, that is definitely possible. NAC alone can bring down your LFTs and you have the others that should help also.

 

[kisaj]

As for SAM-e yes its a amazing supplement especially for your liver, however to achieve the best benefits you need to take around 800-1200mg a day, im taking 400mg which is sufficient for mild liver issues. If severe id dose upto 1200mg.

SAM e is wonderful.

 

[criticalbench]

Licorice Root
Schizandra Berry

Both work great, I wouldn't invest in tudca if you are not using hepatoxic orals. Tudca doesn't work for all liver conditions and people don't understand that. Tudca works for cholestatic liver disorders which is what steroids cause. Damage from tylenol for instance causes a direct hit to hepatocytes so tudca is not indicated. Alcohol as well, hits your liver different than steroids.

NAC is great for daily support as is a high extract of milk thistle.

 

[harrybrah]

sweet. cheers for that information bro. Interesting about that tudca, i thought otherwise. Been doing a bit of research about Schizandra, never knew that benefited the liver. Seen that its great for you skin( acne etc) and loads of others. Will definitely look both of them up/ possibly incorporate.

 

[kboxer7]

sweet. cheers for that information bro. Interesting about that tudca, i thought otherwise. Been doing a bit of research about Schizandra, never knew that benefited the liver. Seen that its great for you skin( acne etc) and loads of others. Will definitely look both of them up/ possibly incorporate.

Schizandra is also neuro and cardio protective : )

 

[criticalbench]

sweet. cheers for that information bro. Interesting about that tudca, i thought otherwise. Been doing a bit of research about Schizandra, never knew that benefited the liver. Seen that its great for you skin( acne etc) and loads of others. Will definitely look both of them up/ possibly incorporate.

Anytime bro.. here to help

 

[harrybrah]

good ****! im on hawthorn berry / coq10 / fishoil / ALA / alcar, so i think my heart is going well . Probably will end up incorporating it , you guys should make a product that contains em all, make a potent formula.


EG; milk thistle/nac/schizandra/Licroise root/beetroot/hawthorn, many other great herbs/things= A great health support. Just a suggestion though .

PS got 2 bottles of your ostarine 240 caps. Will be running soon, so i'll write up a awesome log.

I rolled my ankle and i healed it up in 5 days with ostarine/boom dosing msm/cissus lol. SRS.

 

[harrybrah]

means alot bro. Love learning new things/ hearing insights from people who have loads of knowledge about a variety of things. Its very refreshing.

 

[harrybrah]

just found out some interesting info regarding cissus also. Which i am currently taking to strengthen my tendons/ligaments/ improve flexibility.

not only is it great for injuries, its also protective to your liver, which is awesome. Ill do some more research to see more behind this.



Study Abstract:

OBJECTIVE:
The study was designed to investigate the hepatoprotective activity of methanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis (CQ) against isoniazid-induced hepatotoxicity in rats.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:
The successive petroleum ether (60-80°C) and methanol extracts of C. quadrangularis were used. Hepatic damage was induced in Wistar rats by administering isoniazid (54 mg/kg, p.o.) once daily for 30 days. Simultaneously, CQ (500 mg/kg p.o) was administered 1 h prior to the administration of isoniazid (54 mg/kg, p.o.) once daily for 30 days. Silymarin (50 mg/kg p.o) was used as a reference drug.

RESULTS:
Elevated levels of aspartate transaminase, alanine transaminase, alkaline posphatase, and bilirubin following isoniazid administration were significantly lowered due to pretreatment with CQ. Isoniazid administration significantly increased lipid peroxidation (LPO) and decreased antioxidant activities such as reduced glutathione, superoxide dismutase, and catalase. Pretreatment of rats with CQ significantly decreased LPO and increased the antioxidant activities.

CONCLUSION:
The results of this study indicated that the hepatoprotective effect of CQ might be attributed to its antioxidant property.

 

[criticalbench]

just found out some interesting info regarding cissus also. Which i am currently taking to strengthen my tendons/ligaments/ improve flexibility.

not only is it great for injuries, its also protective to your liver, which is awesome. Ill do some more research to see more behind this.



Study Abstract:

OBJECTIVE:
The study was designed to investigate the hepatoprotective activity of methanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis (CQ) against isoniazid-induced hepatotoxicity in rats.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:
The successive petroleum ether (60-80°C) and methanol extracts of C. quadrangularis were used. Hepatic damage was induced in Wistar rats by administering isoniazid (54 mg/kg, p.o.) once daily for 30 days. Simultaneously, CQ (500 mg/kg p.o) was administered 1 h prior to the administration of isoniazid (54 mg/kg, p.o.) once daily for 30 days. Silymarin (50 mg/kg p.o) was used as a reference drug.

RESULTS:
Elevated levels of aspartate transaminase, alanine transaminase, alkaline posphatase, and bilirubin following isoniazid administration were significantly lowered due to pretreatment with CQ. Isoniazid administration significantly increased lipid peroxidation (LPO) and decreased antioxidant activities such as reduced glutathione, superoxide dismutase, and catalase. Pretreatment of rats with CQ significantly decreased LPO and increased the antioxidant activities.

CONCLUSION:
The results of this study indicated that the hepatoprotective effect of CQ might be attributed to its antioxidant property.

Good info bro!

 

[Daycrawler]

Looks good. Honestly, most of those overlap with CEL's cycle assist. I take half dose of Cycle Assist daily for general health, and makes a bottle last a long time.

I'd consider switching to that to save yourself some headaches with more pills, plus it's like $28 for 60 days worth

 

[scherbs]

OP-not criticizing, but have you stopped to consider all of the $ you are spending in the hopes of optimizing (slightly) your "levels", some of which you admit show that you are as jacked up as you fear?

 

[B5150]

H. A. Kleinveld1, P. N. M. Demacker1 and A. F. H. Stalenhoef1
(1) Department of General Internal Medicine, University Hospital, Nijmegen, P. O. Box 9101, 6500 HB Nijmegen, The Netherlands

Received: 24 February 1992 Accepted: 14 July 1992

Summary - We have studied the effects of N-acetylcysteine which is thought to have antioxidant properties, on the susceptibility of low-density lipoprotein to oxidation and on whole-blood glutathione concentrations in six healthy volunteers.

N-acetylcysteine was given orally in a dosage of at 1.2 g per day for 4 weeks, followed by 2.4 g per day for a further two weeks. The susceptibility of low-density lipoprotein toin vitro Cu2+-oxidation was determined by continuously measuring the formation of conjugated dienes. Whole-blood concentrations of reduced and oxidized glutathione were also determined.
N-acetylcysteine had no effect on the susceptibility of LDL to oxidation. Concentrations of vitamin E in the serum and in low-density lipoprotein were not changed. Compared with controls the concentration of glutathione in N-acetylcysteine treated subjects was reduced (?48 %) and the concentration of oxidized glutathione was higher (+80%). The GSH/GSSG-ratio, a marker of oxidative stress was 83 % lower.
The results do not support the supposed antioxidative action of N-acetylcysteine. It seems more likely that N-acetylcysteine acts as a pro-oxidant in the dosage used.

 

[B5150]

NAC at therapeutic doses (even as low as 1.2 grams daily) has the potential to have pro-oxidant activity and is not
recommended at these doses in the absence of significant oxidative stress

http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/3/2/114.pdf

 

[harrybrah]

Saw that, CEL cycle assist is definitely a great all rounder product. Once i finish up these, i'll look into something like that so i can avoid taking loads of pills.

 

[harrybrah]

Interesting. So more or less avoid above 1000mg of NAC to prevent Pro-oxidant like effects.

 

[harrybrah]

OP-not criticizing, but have you stopped to consider all of the $ you are spending in the hopes of optimizing (slightly) your "levels", some of which you admit show that you are as jacked up as you fear?

I definitely have considered, but yeah i definitely have spent a bit more than i'd like. Probably am a bit more feared than i should be. After i finish all these i'll probably stick to just a clean diet and maybe Liv 52.

 

[Whacked]

Cool thread

PS: We need to add PPC to the list. Even Mr Cooper suggested this as a potent liver prophylactic and general liver health Supp

 

[rtmilburn]

Licorice Root
Schizandra Berry

Both work great, I wouldn't invest in tudca if you are not using hepatoxic orals. Tudca doesn't work for all liver conditions and people don't understand that. Tudca works for cholestatic liver disorders which is what steroids cause. Damage from tylenol for instance causes a direct hit to hepatocytes so tudca is not indicated. Alcohol as well, hits your liver different than steroids.

NAC is great for daily support as is a high extract of milk thistle.

Dude milk thistle is snake oil when taken orally. To achieve its positive effects it has to be injected. Milk thistle is used medically to treat certain mushroom poisoning but its injected.

 

[B5150]

Interesting. So more or less avoid above 1000mg of NAC to prevent Pro-oxidant like effects.

where is the evidence that the benefits of any anti-o's are linear.

So many people dumping grams of this and that without any baseline ALT/AST or GGT nor before and after toxic consumption intervention. The industry is making a killing on fear. It's becoming the greatest Industry revenue generator 100-300% well above and beyond the cost of suspect toxic supplement. Very similar to the over the top OTC PCT. I feel sorry for the consumer today "especially" because of the Internet and the proliferation of misinformation on forums by people who parrot what they read....on the Internet

I've posted elsewhere that at 50mg of SD my AST/ALT were well within range pre and actually improved a couple points during with simply 600mg of ALA and IIRC 1200mg of NAC.

 

[Daycrawler]

Interesting. So more or less avoid above 1000mg of NAC to prevent Pro-oxidant like effects.

Yeah I wouldn't go above 1g

 

[rtmilburn]

where is the evidence that the benefits of any anti-o's are linear.

So many people dumping grams of this and that without any baseline ALT/AST or GGT nor before and after toxic consumption intervention. The industry is making a killing on fear. It's becoming the greatest Industry revenue generator 100-300% well above and beyond the cost of suspect toxic supplement. Very similar to the over the top OTC PCT. I feel sorry for the consumer today "especially" because of the Internet and the proliferation of misinformation on forums by people who parrot what they read....on the Internet

I've posted elsewhere that at 50mg of SD my AST/ALT were well within range pre and actually improved a couple points during with simply 600mg of ALA and IIRC 1200mg of NAC.

I definitely think there is some truth to that. However people react different to certain compounds.

Like you said the you can run 50mgs of SD without it wrecking havoc of your liver. I bet there are a lot of people that are the same way, bighulksmash for example. Although there are some that take a regular 4 weeks cycle of SD at only 20mgs and fck there liver up. I believe the genetics plays a big role in this and you will never know until you try. I think most people are some where in the middle of this spectrum, but why risk doing serious damage? Especially when there are things to help minimize such damage and possible prevent any damage all together.

Thats where i think most peoples logic is at. Correct me if i am wrong but i do agree with it though. Better safe then sorry.

 

[B5150]

I don't disagree with better safe than sorry but where is the threshold of reason that should accompany it.

Look at the OP. He took "antibiotics and drank" and his liver is "a little rubbed up". He's looking to incorporate, as of his opening post - 10 products - to support liver health. Where is the evidence that his liver isn't healthy and or needs any of his help by supplementing? It's rubbed up?

This is where IMHO it is just comical what people think and do. Sorry.

Don't abuse your body (that encompasses all of your organs) and take a multipurpose anti-oxidant like ALA (also a great glucose disposal agent and potentiates creatine efficacy) and be done with it.

 

[rtmilburn]

I don't disagree with better safe than sorry but where is the threshold of reason that should accompany it.

Look at the OP. He took "antibiotics and drank" and his liver is "a little rubbed up". He's looking to incorporate, as of his opening post - 10 products - to support liver health. Where is the evidence that his liver isn't healthy and or needs any of his help by supplementing? It's rubbed up?

This is where IMHO it is just comical what people think and do. Sorry.

Don't abuse your body (that encompasses all of your organs) and take a multipurpose anti-oxidant like ALA (also a great glucose disposal agent and potentiates creatine efficacy) and be done with it.

Ahh I see! I definitely have to agree with that.

 

[criticalbench]

H. A. Kleinveld1, P. N. M. Demacker1 and A. F. H. Stalenhoef1
(1) Department of General Internal Medicine, University Hospital, Nijmegen, P. O. Box 9101, 6500 HB Nijmegen, The Netherlands

Received: 24 February 1992 Accepted: 14 July 1992

Summary - We have studied the effects of N-acetylcysteine which is thought to have antioxidant properties, on the susceptibility of low-density lipoprotein to oxidation and on whole-blood glutathione concentrations in six healthy volunteers.

N-acetylcysteine was given orally in a dosage of at 1.2 g per day for 4 weeks, followed by 2.4 g per day for a further two weeks. The susceptibility of low-density lipoprotein toin vitro Cu2+-oxidation was determined by continuously measuring the formation of conjugated dienes. Whole-blood concentrations of reduced and oxidized glutathione were also determined.
N-acetylcysteine had no effect on the susceptibility of LDL to oxidation. Concentrations of vitamin E in the serum and in low-density lipoprotein were not changed. Compared with controls the concentration of glutathione in N-acetylcysteine treated subjects was reduced (?48 %) and the concentration of oxidized glutathione was higher (+80%). The GSH/GSSG-ratio, a marker of oxidative stress was 83 % lower.
The results do not support the supposed antioxidative action of N-acetylcysteine. It seems more likely that N-acetylcysteine acts as a pro-oxidant in the dosage used.

I Believe Cooper always said 600mg Daily max.

 

[criticalbench]

where is the evidence that the benefits of any anti-o's are linear.

So many people dumping grams of this and that without any baseline ALT/AST or GGT nor before and after toxic consumption intervention. The industry is making a killing on fear. It's becoming the greatest Industry revenue generator 100-300% well above and beyond the cost of suspect toxic supplement. Very similar to the over the top OTC PCT. I feel sorry for the consumer today "especially" because of the Internet and the proliferation of misinformation on forums by people who parrot what they read....on the Internet

I've posted elsewhere that at 50mg of SD my AST/ALT were well within range pre and actually improved a couple points during with simply 600mg of ALA and IIRC 1200mg of NAC.

All everyone only cares about here are AST & ALT.. yes if dealing with steroids, Alk Phos and GGT are far far far more better lab values. Def agree with you here.. the amount of liver protection used by most is redic.

People here max out liver protection and pcts.. yet don't give two flying Fs about protecting their heart.

 

[harrybrah]

Agreed. I did go overboard with my liver protection but I did have high enzymes. I get back results this week or next week, we shall see. I'll post up results once I get.

Also can I take alpha lipoic acid in adjacent with cissus ? I read that both lower blood sugar so the potential is there, however it's most likely safe to take both. Good to ask more informed people before potentially doing something stupid.

 

[harrybrah]

Coq10. Hawthorn berry. Beet root. Acetyl L carnitine, trans- reservatrol, policonsanal, Magnesium, fish oil. Also Arjuna is a great herb that assists in normal platelet function and assists optimal blood pressure. Curcumin. There's so many things for the heart, just gotta weigh up what your goal is and what you need. It all depends on what you're doing, what you're taking, what your current health is heart wise? High/ low blood pressure, agina? Each of these benefits uniquely though.

 

[criticalbench]

Coq10. Hawthorn berry. Beet root. Acetyl L carnitine, trans- reservatrol, policonsanal, Magnesium, fish oil. Also Arjuna is a great herb that assists in normal platelet function and assists optimal blood pressure. Curcumin. There's so many things for the heart, just gotta weigh up what your goal is and what you need. It all depends on what you're doing, what you're taking, what your current health is heart wise? High/ low blood pressure, agina? Each of these benefits uniquely though.

For cardiac health.. its simple

Potassium Nitrate to dilate arterial vessels
Terminalia Arjuna to decrease stress on the left ventricle and assist in strengthening its pumping action
L-Theanine to reduce overall stress on the body

Perfect combo for cardiac protection. That does not cover the cholesterol aspect though if that concerns someone. I use heart help for that.

 

[Whacked]

Is there a supp that contains this Terminalia Arjuna or do you simply take it isolation.

 

[harrybrah]

Is there a supp that contains this Terminalia Arjuna or do you simply take it isolation.

Himalaya health care.

They sell a single Arjuna supp or their cardio health supp contain it.
Great company