The best Home made GDA

[Danus]

Hey everybody.

Don't post much but lurk a lot so it's about time I helped you guys out.
I'm a type 1 diabetic so my results and judgment of effectiveness are about as accurate as it can get.
What I mean by that is I would judge a GDA based on body composition changes, blood sugar values and exogenous insulin required to cover a meal.

As far as supplement history goes I've played around with a lot of raw/natural vitamins etc and as far as actual products I've used Burn24, Slinsane v1+v2 and Slinmax. Slinsane v2 being my favourite out of the bunch.

However after recommendations from my coach and picking up knowledge from others on the topic I've narrowed things down to these 3 ingredients.

250mg Grape seed extract (I use NOW foods)
200mg Chromium GTF (same brand)
500mg Berberine (Vitacost brand)

You could probably use this without the GSE but I've found it adds just a little bit more in terms of insulin sensitivity, plus there are other bonus's to GSE, but that's another topic.

Using these 3 I've almost cut my insulin doses in half for my pre bed meals which are always extremely high carb (200-300, don't freak out to put it into perspective I consume roughly 4.2k cals to hold/recomp my weight around 188lbs). I've gone from 25 units of insulin spaced out to cover this meal down to 14.. that's a humongous drop IMO. Not only this but for the first time I've actually seen increased leaness, especially in leg separation and abs without decreasing calories and actually pulling back on training volume.
I've never experienced these results using over the counter GDAs, not saying they don't work because they do indeed reduce my insulin needs. Just nowhere near as effective as these 3 have been.

Overall these products aren't too expensive and per serve workout cheaper (for me at least I'm in Australia so I pay out the ass for shipping) than your over the counter GDA's.

Hope you guys give it a try.

 

[kboxer7]

Nice set up.

I'm happy to hear that you've been able to drop that insulin dosage.

I like GSE, but hope you're taking it capped...that stuff tastes horrible lol

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Cool post. Have you experimented with Apple Cider Vinegar and Cinnamon? The ACV oddly only works when taken before a complex carb meal according to the research. I stopped taking Cinnamon because of the Coumarin and I wasn't going to pay for Ceylon, so I haven't kept up on that research. I'm surprised you haven't looked at Berberine? (There are downsides though with cAMP and Hypertrophy).

 

[Danus]

Nice set up.

I like GSE, but hope you're taking it capped...that stuff tastes horrible lol

Yep lol, although you better make sure you don't burp up one of those caps haha.

Also i should mention I'm a type 1 diabetic not T2. So I'm producing 0 insulin and the benefits I'm talking about aren't from simply from resistance training and diet like most T2s.

 

[Danus]

Cool post. Have you experimented with Apple Cider Vinegar and Cinnamon? The ACV oddly only works when taken before a complex carb meal according to the research. I stopped taking Cinnamon because of the Coumarin and I wasn't going to pay for Ceylon, so I haven't kept up on that research. I'm surprised you haven't looked at Berberine? (There are downsides though with cAMP and Hypertrophy).

Yes i take ACV regularly and have seen very minor benefits sensitivity wise, also the same with cinnamon but some foods just dont go with cinnamon so i rarely use it.

 

[max d]

Thanks for the post. Ive looked into buying straight GDA supps but even in the US I think they are relatively pricey. I may buy these and give it a whirl in my next cut!

 

[booneman77]

Cool post. Have you experimented with Apple Cider Vinegar and Cinnamon? The ACV oddly only works when taken before a complex carb meal according to the research. I stopped taking Cinnamon because of the Coumarin and I wasn't going to pay for Ceylon, so I haven't kept up on that research. I'm surprised you haven't looked at Berberine? (There are downsides though with cAMP and Hypertrophy).

he has 500mg of berberine in there...

 

[The_Old_Guy]

he has 500mg of berberine in there...

Duh!!!!! I didn't have my Bi-Focals on Thx!

 

[bighulksmash]

I know you said homemade but im about to give slinmax a try by performax labs. The reviews are incredible. how did you like slinmax?

Also i like your homemade formula

Edited: forgot to ask

 

[booneman77]

I know you said homemade but im about to give slinmax a try by performax labs. The reviews are incredible.

He wasn't asking for one, he's showing his...

 

[bighulksmash]

He wasn't asking for one, he's showing his...

I read the OP . He has used slinmax . I was hoping for a little info on how he liked it . As iam about to try it .

 

[AntM1564]

Have you thought about adding bulk Na-r-ala? You can find it for $100 a tub, seems like a lot, but it lasts a very long time.

 

[hsk]

vanadyl sulfate is a cheap economical way to enhance that stack a bit more. i'm type 2 diabetic and tried many gda ingredients and formulas. these things are a godsend for those of us who are diabetic and/or less than genetically blessed.

corosolic acid, berberine, gymnema, vanadium, gtf chromium, fenugreek, cinnamon, salacia are all good to go.

 

[ma70]

Have you thought about adding bulk Na-r-ala? You can find it for $100 a tub, seems like a lot, but it lasts a very long time.

Agreed with this guy. Alpha Lipoic Acid is great stuff.

 

[kbayne]

The berberine alone would be enough IMO as it has been shown to be just as/if not more effective than Metformin without some of the sides.

Na-R-ALA would be the other ingredient I would add.

 

[booneman77]

The berberine alone would be enough IMO as it has been shown to be just as/if not more effective than Metformin without some of the sides.

Na-R-ALA would be the other ingredient I would add.

The studies on berberine are downright amazing. I can't believe a pharma company hasn't patented a product with it.

 

[hsk]

The studies on berberine are downright amazing. I can't believe a pharma company hasn't patented a product with it.

Let's hope that never happens as that would mean the end of affordable access to a natural and effective ingredient for everyone who wants to use it.

 

[criticalbench]

Have you thought about adding bulk Na-r-ala? You can find it for $100 a tub, seems like a lot, but it lasts a very long time.

Na-Rala + Agmatine is a killer combo.. especially pre-workout.

 

[booneman77]

Let's hope that never happens as that would mean the end of affordable access to a natural and effective ingredient for everyone who wants to use it.

So true. Sad, but true

 

[The_Old_Guy]

So what do guys think about the negative impact on hypertrophy with Berberine? It's countered by exercise, but to me, that puts us at sort of a 'Net 0' type of deal.

 

[ma70]

So what do guys think about the negative impact on hypertrophy with Berberine? It's countered by exercise, but to me, that puts us at sort of a 'Net 0' type of deal.

This was discussed in a massive thread a long time ago when people were talking about Gold Dust, or some Berberine powder. (I don't know if the name is gold dust to be honest..., it was gold something) I think it was deemed okay when dosed at the correct times. Berberine activates ampk, but so does exercise, etc. and I don't think ampk is activated for too long. I'll probably go search for the topic as we speak.

 

[AKM007]

This was discussed in a massive thread a long time ago when people were talking about Gold Dust, or some Berberine powder. (I don't know if the name is gold dust to be honest..., it was gold something) I think it was deemed okay when dosed at the correct times. Berberine activates ampk, but so does exercise, etc. and I don't think ampk is activated for too long. I'll probably go search for the topic as we speak.

Yellow gold I believe...

 

[ma70]

This is the original thread back in 2006:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/56735-berberine-faq.html
The_Old_Guy

 

[booneman77]

So what do guys think about the negative impact on hypertrophy with Berberine? It's countered by exercise, but to me, that puts us at sort of a 'Net 0' type of deal.

The simple solution is to dose away from workouts. I believe this is enough to negate the negative effects it would have.

 

[Danus]

Have you thought about adding bulk Na-r-ala? You can find it for $100 a tub, seems like a lot, but it lasts a very long time.

It has crossed my mind, if i were to procrastinate i could probably take about 6 raw products but stick to these 3 as they have a great cost/effect ratio.

 

[Danus]

The simple solution is to dose away from workouts. I believe this is enough to negate the negative effects it would have.

This is a good point to mention. At times pre workout i would not be using Berberine or any other GDA as your body will have improved insulin sensitivty and nutrient updake during and post workout.
However if you wanted to get serious you could take Forskolin and a pre workout containing 500mg-1000mg agamatine which is more than enough for it's purpose. The reason i mention Forskolin as its fantastic for fatloss/recomp which is always a goal for everyone however since you have no need for Berberine around a workout this is an excellent time to utilize Forskolin since they both counter each other with regards to switching cAMP on and off.

 

[highlander31]

I like this thread. Keep it going strong guys this is really good info. GDAs are so cool and every one (especially T1 Diabetics) info and experiences are great to read about.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

So what do guys think about the negative impact on hypertrophy with Berberine? It's countered by exercise, but to me, that puts us at sort of a 'Net 0' type of deal.

So to eliminate berberine's impact on muscle hypertrophy you would want to concurrently inhibit Atrogin-1. The cool thing about resistance training exercise is that it activates an AMPK isoform called AMPK-alpha2 in muscle tissue which does not blunt mtor activation.

 

[highlander31]

Hey everybody.

Don't post much but lurk a lot so it's about time I helped you guys out.
I'm a type 1 diabetic so my results and judgment of effectiveness are about as accurate as it can get.
What I mean by that is I would judge a GDA based on body composition changes, blood sugar values and exogenous insulin required to cover a meal.

As far as supplement history goes I've played around with a lot of raw/natural vitamins etc and as far as actual products I've used Burn24, Slinsane v1+v2 and Slinmax. Slinsane v2 being my favourite out of the bunch.

However after recommendations from my coach and picking up knowledge from others on the topic I've narrowed things down to these 3 ingredients.

250mg Grape seed extract (I use NOW foods)
200mg Chromium GTF (same brand)
500mg Berberine (Vitacost brand)

You could probably use this without the GSE but I've found it adds just a little bit more in terms of insulin sensitivity, plus there are other bonus's to GSE, but that's another topic.

Using these 3 I've almost cut my insulin doses in half for my pre bed meals which are always extremely high carb (200-300, don't freak out to put it into perspective I consume roughly 4.2k cals to hold/recomp my weight around 188lbs). I've gone from 25 units of insulin spaced out to cover this meal down to 14.. that's a humongous drop IMO. Not only this but for the first time I've actually seen increased leaness, especially in leg separation and abs without decreasing calories and actually pulling back on training volume.
I've never experienced these results using over the counter GDAs, not saying they don't work because they do indeed reduce my insulin needs. Just nowhere near as effective as these 3 have been.

Overall these products aren't too expensive and per serve workout cheaper (for me at least I'm in Australia so I pay out the ass for shipping) than your over the counter GDA's.

Hope you guys give it a try.

When are you dosing all these btw? All 3 of them at the same time about 15 minutes before a meal?

 

[Big Papi]

why do non-diabetics care about gda's so much?

 

[NoAddedHmones]

why do non-diabetics care about gda's so much?

Because taking a few pills before eating yourself stupid gives you peace of mind duh

 

[Danus]

When are you dosing all these btw? All 3 of them at the same time about 15 minutes before a meal?

Roughly 10 or so mins (don't stress over it) just before a meal, if you wait to long after taking the pills you may feel a drop in blood sugar from the Berberine.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Roughly 10 or so mins (don't stress over it) just before a meal, if you wait to long after taking the pills you may feel a drop in blood sugar from the Berberine.

Berberine is normoglycemic so it will only reduce blood sugar if it is elevated. Should't cause you to go hypo.

 

[Danus]

Berberine is normoglycemic so it will only reduce blood sugar if it is elevated. Should't cause you to go hypo.

It depends on the circumstance. I'm a type 1 diabetic and if I've taken my GSE, Chromium and Berberine and have been running around the kitchen trying to cook my meal in a hurry I guarantee my blood sugars will have dropped significantly.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

It depends on the circumstance. I'm a type 1 diabetic and if I've taken my GSE, Chromium and Berberine and have been running around the kitchen trying to cook my meal in a hurry I guarantee my blood sugars will have dropped significantly.

ah yes, sorry I didn't read your OP.

 

[Darkhorse192]

The simple solution is to dose away from workouts. I believe this is enough to negate the negative effects it would have.

how far away from workout is ideal? so using something like slinmax without preworkout carbs approx 2hrs prior to training is no bueno?

 

[booneman77]

how far away from workout is ideal? so using something like slinmax without preworkout carbs approx 2hrs prior to training is no bueno?

I don't know the exact number, but what olive suggested would not be optimal. I would try for at least 4 hrs if not more

 

[highlander31]

I don't know the exact number, but what olive suggested would not be optimal. I would try for at least 4 hrs if not more

so essentially all these companies (one in mind in particular) that say to take their GDA 30 mins preworkout with 50g carbs are full of **** and its actually hindering progress?

 

[booneman77]

so essentially all these companies (one in mind in particular) that say to take their GDA 30 mins preworkout with 50g carbs are full of **** and its actually hindering progress?

Well, the reason this is suggested is that it will give increased pumps which theoretically should increase nutrient delivery to the muscles... so its a different pathway/moa. Technically they're not wrong, but it may not be "optimal" in the grand scheme. It depends on the level of effect each moa has (which can be very dependent on personal factors such as diet, training, genetics, etc).

Just like anyhting else, theres pluses and minuses to just about anything in this realm so its impossible to say one thing or the other is "right" or "wrong" with absolute certainty.

 

[Adizzle1]

Mr.Cooper weighed in on this

Yeah I've seen this. It was demonstrated in normal mice too, but I think the key here is understanding the big picture. Yes, berberine potently induces AMPK, but in trained individuals, this will simply increase glucose flux (and subsequent glycogen storage) in muscle tissue. In the context of a high protein diet (lots of mTOR signaling) and resistance training, me thinks the effects would be rather negligible. We don't see people on berberine or metformin catabolizing ridiculous amounts of muscle tissue typically

 

[money0351]

so essentially all these companies (one in mind in particular) that say to take their GDA 30 mins preworkout with 50g carbs are full of **** and its actually hindering progress?

This is almost exactly what I do and from my experience, it has not hindered progress...
Now I am not saying that it is the absolute optimal training protocol but I will say that doing so will not negate you're workout
I find it somewhat amusing that people will debate until the end whether or not EAA's or BCAA's intra workout will be the most beneficial or timing MPS refractory periods with a stop watch before they have another meal when in reality, you'll honestly make gains either way.
If you're struggling to make progress gaining strength or with your physique, then it's probably not the effects of your GDA on AMPK

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Anyone have any thoughts on LifeExtensions 'CinSulin'

 

[booneman77]

Anyone have any thoughts on LifeExtensions 'CinSulin'

The cinsulin is just a trademarked cinnamon bark extract.

It's not bad, but way overpriced for a simple cinnamon extract product. It wouldn't be a bad addition but not at the prices I'm seeing.

For a cost:benefit, there's much better options

 

[NewAgeMayan]

The cinsulin is just a trademarked cinnamon bark extract.

It's not bad, but way overpriced for a simple cinnamon extract product. It wouldn't be a bad addition but not at the prices I'm seeing.

For a cost:benefit, there's much better options

You think the other ingredients are meh?

 

[booneman77]

You think the other ingredients are meh?

I assume you're talking about this one:

Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1 vegetarian capsule
Amount Per Serving
Iodine (typical value naturally occurring from kelp and bladderwrack)
20 mcg

Chromium [as Crominex 3+ chromium stabilized with Capros standardized amla extract (fruit) and PrimaVie purified and standardized Shilajit]
133 mcg

CinSulin Cinnamon water extract (bark) [providing 4.375 mg Type-A Polymers]
175 mg

InSea2 [proprietary composition of demineralized polyphenols from brown seaweeds kelp and bladderwrack]
100 mg

Other ingredients: microcrystalline cellulose, vegetable cellulose (capsule), silica, vegetable stearate.

In which case it's chromium, iodine and brown seaweed... I'm not terribly familiar with the last one, but that being the case I have a hard time believing it's anything amazing if none of us have really used it or even seen it in anything else.

I would try the product of it wasn't like $30 a bottle. Maybe $20 it might be worth a shot.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Hmmm, yeah

 

[hsk]

You can also try pure Cinnulin caps from Swanson's. Cinnulin is a 40:1 Cinnamon Bark Extract (20% Polyphenols) made by IN-Ingredients. This one has studies backing it too. It's not too bad but you need 450-500mg per day to get anything out of it. For the price of cinnamon extracts though, there are better options.

 

[criticalbench]

why do non-diabetics care about gda's so much?

Because they prolly take metformin like a lot of bodybuilders which costs roughly $4-6 a month, its one of the cheaper meds and works really really damn good.. I love it.. so cheap, lots of health benefits, works like a charm. Makes keeping carbs in your diet when in contest prep really easy work.

 

[AKM007]

Because they prolly take metformin like a lot of bodybuilders which costs roughly $4-6 a month, its one of the cheaper meds and works really really damn good.. I love it.. so cheap, lots of health benefits, works like a charm. Makes keeping carbs in your diet when in contest prep really easy work.

I believe Metformin reduces test in diabetic men....not sure of its effects on the healthy though...

 

[JudoJosh]

I miss yellow gold from NP