Hmb-fa and PA during calorie deficit?

[Goal_swole]

Is there any benefit of using muscletech clear muscle during calorie deficit or eating at maintenance or it is beneficial only during bulk/calorie surplus? And same question about PA? Has anyone used these supps during a cut?

 

[LeanEngineer]

I personally haven't used them during a cut. I ran a clear muscle and ABE stack and got really good results. I've used both by themselves and love ABE. I think the clear muscle helped some as well. I think these two supps, Clear Muscle and PA, are more commonly taken during a bulk.

 

[AKM007]

I might be wrong on this but doesn't HMB blunt fat loss? Or for some reason I believe its not something you want in a cut. Maybe someone can confirm or correct...

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I might be wrong on this but doesn't HMB blunt fat loss? Or for some reason I believe its not something you want in a cut. Maybe someone can confirm or correct...

Where do the excess required calories come from when in a deficit?

 

[john.patterson]

I've never heard of HMB blunting fat loss, I know there were some studies done that showed that HMB can help with muscle rentention while dieting which would be beneficial. But from newer studies and feedback, HMB is a waste of money IMO. I think there are other products that are more worth the money.

As far as PA is concerned, studies show that it can help a lot in sparing muscle while cutting. I think it would be a better investment to save a product like Clear Muscle for a bulk, but I know many users have reported that PA is muscle sparing and helps save muscle while dieting.

 

[AKM007]

Where do the excess required calories come from when in a deficit?

I get your point but anyways my response was based on this study that suppv had an article on. Digging it up it may not be relevant to the topic at hand being that it was a rodent study and it was regular HMB. Cant link yet but here you go..suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/07/hmb-increases-lean-mass-loss-22-hampers.

Question though - HMB-FA apparently shines with an overreaching protocol but that combined with an energy deficit...wouldn't that be detrimental eventually? I guess either smaller energy deficit or obese individuals it might be fine for a while but I wonder for those below 15% body fat.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Yeah overreaching whilst in a deficit prolly not the best combo. In a deficit you really want to do your darndest to at least maintain strength, which is somewhat at odds with aspects of an overreach. An overreach is also going to make the body more susceptible to catabolic activity, as in magnify the propensity/tendency.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Cant link yet but here you go..suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/07/hmb-increases-lean-mass-loss-22-hampers.

The last sentence in your link:

It should go without saying, though that the overtraining + undereating approach to cutting body fat is a no-go with or without HMB, so in essence, all you need to do is to avoid following this path towards misery and you don't have to care much about the relevance of the results of this study.

A mouse running for an hour, 3x/week - is *a lot* different than a human.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

But from newer studies and feedback, HMB is a waste of money IMO.

What newer studies? The latest ones are from 2015 on the Elite Rowers, and it shows even the "plain old' Calcium bound HMB to be pretty darn good. Just type "HMB" into the SuppVersity search box and look at the dates and start reading - it made me buy a kilo and use as a staple

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Is there any benefit of using muscletech clear muscle during calorie deficit or eating at maintenance or it is beneficial only during bulk/calorie surplus? And same question about PA? Has anyone used these supps during a cut?

I use PA during cuts - just jigger your macros to make your desired amount fit. I use HMB-CA daily (3g), "Clear Muscle" is too expensive for my wallet.

 

[john.patterson]

What newer studies? The latest ones are from 2015 on the Elite Rowers, and it shows even the "plain old' Calcium bound HMB to be pretty darn good. Just type "HMB" into the SuppVersity search box and look at the dates and start reading - it made me buy a kilo and use as a staple

I stand corrected, not in new studies, but in feedback that I read on HMB. I did some reading into HMB studies this morning and the results of taking HMB look promising:


"HMB appears to interact with the training protocol utilized, as well as the experience of the athlete. In untrained individuals, low volume, high intensity resistance training will cause enough skeletal muscle tissue disruption to benefit from HMB supplementation. In addition to speeding recovery from high intensity exercise, HMB may assist athletes in preventing loss of lean body mass in catabolic situations such as caloric restriction. HMB may also be beneficial for augmenting body composition and physical performance in master’s level athletes, or aging individuals in general. Finally, although research is limited it appears that the supplement may also enhance aerobic performance."

-International Society of Sports Nutrition Position Stand: beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB)

However, from what I read in forums and reviews for HMB supplements, many people report that it does not yield any noticeable results. I'm very curious to know what your experiences are with HMB though. I'm going to keep reading up on it. Thanks man!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I stand corrected, not in new studies, but in feedback that I read on HMB. I did some reading into HMB studies this morning and the results of taking HMB look promising:


"HMB appears to interact with the training protocol utilized, as well as the experience of the athlete. In untrained individuals, low volume, high intensity resistance training will cause enough skeletal muscle tissue disruption to benefit from HMB supplementation. In addition to speeding recovery from high intensity exercise, HMB may assist athletes in preventing loss of lean body mass in catabolic situations such as caloric restriction. HMB may also be beneficial for augmenting body composition and physical performance in master’s level athletes, or aging individuals in general. Finally, although research is limited it appears that the supplement may also enhance aerobic performance."

-International Society of Sports Nutrition Position Stand: beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB)

However, from what I read in forums and reviews for HMB supplements, many people report that it does not yield any noticeable results. I'm very curious to know what your experiences are with HMB though. I'm going to keep reading up on it. Thanks man!

I have yet to find a forum gym bro (including myself) who only takes ONE (1) Supplement, or does regular DEXA - that's the problem with forum "logs" and "reviews". I just go by a preponderance of the data (scientific consensus). I likely won't be able to tell you what, if anything, my daily HMB is doing, but it's $45 for a year supply. I *did* just hit a new Deadlift PR on Monday though... Hmmmmmm HMB!? <---- see how that usually plays out?

 

[john.patterson]

I have yet to find a forum gym bro (including myself) who only takes ONE (1) Supplement, or does regular DEXA - that's the problem with forum "logs" and "reviews". I just go by a preponderance of the data (scientific consensus). I likely won't be able to tell you what, if anything, my daily HMB is doing, but it's $45 for a year supply. I *did* just hit a new Deadlift PR on Monday though... Hmmmmmm HMB!? <---- see how that usually plays out?

Very true, you raise a good point. But for the price I would agree, you might as well add it in if its studied to show improvements in recovery and body composition. You are wise. Thanks for questioning my post respectfully, that's the best way to learn. Rep'd.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Thanks for questioning my post respectfully, that's the best way to learn. Rep'd.

That's not something I usually get accused of! Back at'cha!