BCAA's a must or hype?

Coastie

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I have never taken a BCAA supplement, is it a must for gaining mass/recovery or is getting BCAA's from whey good enough?
 
warbird01

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No it's definitely not a must for putting on muscle. Most say BCAAs are pretty useless when bulking actually, and have some effect while cutting.
 
TrainerTone

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They are best used when training fasted. If not I don't find a use for them really
 
Aleksandar37

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Depends on what your diet and training looks like. Everything has a time and place.
 
Rocket3015

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I like BCAA's, I use them everyday, but I do not believe they are a Must Have, but do help with fine tuning.
 
Rocket3015

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I just read this in another thread it was written by Chuck Diesel it make sense of the need for BCAA

BCAAs = brick layers
Protein = cement to make bricks
House = muscles

You want to build a house faster what do you need? More brick layers or more cement?? Boom!
 
ManimalPatB

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I do not think they are a "must have" supplement BUT I do use them daily during my training and I feel that my recovery has gotten better because of it

But that's just my personal preference
 

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Definitely not a must-have supplement. Useful for cutting, useless when bulking, and I like using them for fasted training.
 

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I notice a reduction in doms when using daily intra workout.
 
LeanEngineer

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Definitely not a must have supplement. I think they are beneficial for me though. I have a sweet tooth and when I want something sweet a good tasting bcaa product is that substitute as well as additional bcaas to my diet. I usually drink them intra workout though. So if you have the money I would pick up some cheap bcaas but if not then you don't need them.
 
smith_69

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they are a component of skeletal muscle and are released during strenuous workouts to be used as a source of quick energy and then converted to glucose. Leucine, has been shown to stimulate anabolic pathways in skeletal muscle. taking after working out can also help to replenish these amino acids.
 
Quads_of_Stee

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definitely not a must have, especially not if you are getting enough macros from food. However, sometimes when training fasted at 6am before breakfast I like to use some as I can't eat properly that early
 
smith_69

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agree- used numerous times before, after and during- noticed more energy when using while working out- didn't make me a mad man, but if you aren't getting it from the food,
 
Young Gotti

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no supplement is a must have supplement

but if I was to pick 5 supplements I would always recommend bcaa's or aminos to be on that list
 
ahawk01

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Bcaa aren't just fasted. I don't share same view as many do. I like a nice big shot of leucine pre and post. Post will help with recovery. Are they necessary no. Do I like bcaa/eeas intraworkout yea.
 
smith_69

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Bcaa aren't just fasted. I don't share same view as many do. I like a nice big shot of leucine pre and post. Post will help with recovery. Are they necessary no. Do I like bcaa/eeas intraworkout yea.
just wish they included leucine "peptide" not leucine- however the cost to consumer would skyrocket
 
ahawk01

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just wish they included leucine "peptide" not leucine- however the cost to consumer would skyrocket
I like kaged muscle fermented bcaas. Easy dump into my pre. If u want leucine peptides my protein has a great deal on them
 
Jiigzz

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I just read this in another thread it was written by Chuck Diesel it make sense of the need for BCAA

BCAAs = brick layers
Protein = cement to make bricks
House = muscles

You want to build a house faster what do you need? More brick layers or more cement?? Boom!
BCAAs are an integeral part of a protein, but ingested during a workout there most likely fate is oxidation, no youre drinking an expensive energy drink. Moreover the proteins are what, when ingested, are able to code for a new protein. The BCAAs cant as they are incomplete.

You're better off eating more protein if your goal is to build muscle. BCAAs and EAAs are generally used to negate muscle loss during exercise, enhance recovery, provide substrate for energy etc.
 
JudoJosh

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Why is it either a must or just all hype? Why is it being pigeion holed into extreme ends of the spectrum? Like everything, it is a bit more nuanced and contextual than simply good or bad.

Are they helpful? Possibly
Do you NEED them? No
Can you make progress without them? Yes
Would that progress be made better with the addittion of them? Possibly
 
sgtgreen

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I generally drink more bcaa's then protein. I hate water without flavor so it does 2 jobs.
 
bolt10

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Why is it either a must or just all hype? Why is it being pigeion holed into extreme ends of the spectrum? Like everything, it is a bit more nuanced and contextual than simply good or bad.

Are they helpful? Possibly
Do you NEED them? No
Can you make progress without them? Yes
Would that progress be made better with the addittion of them? Possibly
Agree with this.

I don't recommend them to everyone, but for those who train hard (more so meaning they have everything in line with training and diet than actual straight intensity) I think they can be very helpful. I won't go without my Amino IV during training, even if I can progress without them I find I do slightly better over the long-haul with them. :)
 
Gutterpump

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For me it's a must if I want to drink enough water in the day.
 
thebigt

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Why is it either a must or just all hype? Why is it being pigeion holed into extreme ends of the spectrum? Like everything, it is a bit more nuanced and contextual than simply good or bad.

Are they helpful? Possibly
Do you NEED them? No
Can you make progress without them? Yes
Would that progress be made better with the addittion of them? Possibly
'THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE'


X-FILES starts 0n 1-24-16!!!
 
AntM1564

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Why is it either a must or just all hype? Why is it being pigeion holed into extreme ends of the spectrum? Like everything, it is a bit more nuanced and contextual than simply good or bad.

Are they helpful? Possibly
Do you NEED them? No
Can you make progress without them? Yes
Would that progress be made better with the addittion of them? Possibly
This. BCAAs have their place, but are not essential in order to make strength gains. improve body compoisiton or performance.

I think they are great when training fasted. I will usually have a scoop or two, depending on the brand pre workout when I train in a fasted state. If I am training long after my pre workout meal, I may have some intra workout. I feel like it does help endurance. For the second scenario, it would look like this for me:

11 AM - PWO meal
3-4:30 PM - training session
5 PM - Post workout meal

Due to work, sometimes my pwo meal is several hours prior to training before. If you can get a solid meal, or even shake pre workout and something post workout, I wouldn't bother with BCAA.
 
Rocket3015

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Chuck Diesel would love to hear you weight in here....?
 
smith_69

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Chuck Diesel would love to hear you weight in here....?
theres really an easier way to do this Rocket, just pick me to log it- ill even use the test boost mind trick- you will pick me to lol

honestly i think i mentioned i used before and used modern bcaa in the past during workout, i felt it helped. havent bought in awhile, but with the LG run, i may be selling my self short- opinions are going to vary, i really think this is one that comes down to the person using it.
 
ddubbs

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Think of it like this. What is a PROTEIN..Its a chain of amino acids.. And if BCAA's do the most for putting on lean muscle especially leucine then why just eat and hope your protein has enough. (which it doesn't) The best part of BCAA's are they can keep you in an anabolic state without having a caloric intake.
Looking at an anabolic window before, during and after training you would be crazy not to supplement with bcaas to peak this period.

Here is a few interesting things about leucine
n a series of elaborate experiments, researchers directly examined muscle protein synthesis after feeding animals various formulations of amino acids and compared them to glucose ingestion. When a complete protein (one that contains all the amino acids) was consumed, protein synthesis increased. When just essential amino acids were consumed without non-essential amino acids, the same increase was noted indicating non-essential amino acids are not required to stimulate protein synthesis. When only BCAAs were consumed, there was again the same increase in protein synthesis. Finally when just leucine was consumed, protein synthesis still increased to the same magnitude. These findings provided strong evidence that leucine was the driving force behind the ability of dietary protein to stimulate protein synthesis.

Researchers at the University of Illinois conducted studies that examined weight loss diets containing 10 grams of leucine per day and 125 grams total of protein per day with a minimum of 2.5 grams of leucine at each meal. In two separate studies, the groups consuming high leucine diets had greater weight loss, greater fat loss and better preservation of lean body mass. In these studies, the high leucine diets also resulted in better glucose control.

In another study, scientists from Columbia University studied rats that were fed high-fat diets. When given leucine supplements, their fat weight decreased by 25%. The leucine also promoted better blood sugar control and reduced total and LDL “bad” cholesterol. Leucine increased their resting metabolism by boosting levels of UCP3 (uncoupling protein 3), which causes the body to lose energy as heat rather than storing it as body fat.

A cautionary note—supplementing with just leucine alone will not result in optimal effects if the your diet is low in protein. This is because other BCAAs (isoleucine and valine) will be preferentially oxidized and lead to a BCAA imbalance that compromises anabolism. Therefore, if total protein intake is low, supplement with all three BCAAs.

This is why I like that ANSI BCAAS's is a 8:1:1 ratio.
 
Chuck Diesel

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Do you ingest adequate amounts of protein? Yes? Then you have almost no need to supplement BCAAs.
People always say this, but this is a misconception. Its like saying "do you get enough protein? then you do not need arginine or citrulline products for pumps"

No one eats 2 chx breast preworkout for pumps and that has 4g of arginine.

I'm getting together a lot of research on BCAAs to explain and breakdown soon because I think BCAAs (free form) should be treated as a supplement, not something to compare to protein powder/food. Protein powder is more better compared to dietary sources of protein.

For instance, I have research where casein supplements didn't do as much for being anti-catabolic as a lower dose of free form aminos. There are many reasons why, one is protein ingestion either over your daily req of .8g/kg or over 40g at one time produced ammonia from its processing into amino acids. BCAAs are not processed, they also do not break down in the liver. The correct amount of bcaas reduce ammonia (too many at once can increase it).

But for now look it like Nitric Oxide boosters. People see arginine as a supplement. They do not compare pump products to protein.
 
Chuck Diesel

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I got this study where they took mice and prevented them from using their hind legs. Its called a suspension test. BCAAs greatly slowed down muscle loss in their leg muscle from in activity compared to the mice with no bcaas
 
heavylifter33

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Think of it like this. What is a PROTEIN..Its a chain of amino acids.. And if BCAA's do the most for putting on lean muscle especially leucine then why just eat and hope your protein has enough. (which it doesn't) The best part of BCAA's are they can keep you in an anabolic state without having a caloric intake.
Looking at an anabolic window before, during and after training you would be crazy not to supplement with bcaas to peak this period.

Here is a few interesting things about leucine
n a series of elaborate experiments, researchers directly examined muscle protein synthesis after feeding animals various formulations of amino acids and compared them to glucose ingestion. When a complete protein (one that contains all the amino acids) was consumed, protein synthesis increased. When just essential amino acids were consumed without non-essential amino acids, the same increase was noted indicating non-essential amino acids are not required to stimulate protein synthesis. When only BCAAs were consumed, there was again the same increase in protein synthesis. Finally when just leucine was consumed, protein synthesis still increased to the same magnitude. These findings provided strong evidence that leucine was the driving force behind the ability of dietary protein to stimulate protein synthesis.

Researchers at the University of Illinois conducted studies that examined weight loss diets containing 10 grams of leucine per day and 125 grams total of protein per day with a minimum of 2.5 grams of leucine at each meal. In two separate studies, the groups consuming high leucine diets had greater weight loss, greater fat loss and better preservation of lean body mass. In these studies, the high leucine diets also resulted in better glucose control.

In another study, scientists from Columbia University studied rats that were fed high-fat diets. When given leucine supplements, their fat weight decreased by 25%. The leucine also promoted better blood sugar control and reduced total and LDL “bad” cholesterol. Leucine increased their resting metabolism by boosting levels of UCP3 (uncoupling protein 3), which causes the body to lose energy as heat rather than storing it as body fat.

A cautionary note—supplementing with just leucine alone will not result in optimal effects if the your diet is low in protein. This is because other BCAAs (isoleucine and valine) will be preferentially oxidized and lead to a BCAA imbalance that compromises anabolism. Therefore, if total protein intake is low, supplement with all three BCAAs.

This is why I like that ANSI BCAAS's is a 8:1:1 ratio.
you can't be serious with what you just posted... l o l
 
JudoJosh

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Think of it like this. What is a PROTEIN..Its a chain of amino acids.. And if BCAA's do the most for putting on lean muscle especially leucine then why just eat and hope your protein has enough. (which it doesn't) The best part of BCAA's are they can keep you in an anabolic state without having a caloric intake.
Looking at an anabolic window before, during and after training you would be crazy not to supplement with bcaas to peak this period.
Just about every part of this is false or short sighted
 
JudoJosh

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People always say this, but this is a misconception. Its like saying "do you get enough protein? then you do not need arginine or citrulline products for pumps"

No one eats 2 chx breast preworkout for pumps and that has 4g of arginine.

I'm getting together a lot of research on BCAAs to explain and breakdown soon because I think BCAAs (free form) should be treated as a supplement, not something to compare to protein powder/food. Protein powder is more better compared to dietary sources of protein.

For instance, I have research where casein supplements didn't do as much for being anti-catabolic as a lower dose of free form aminos. There are many reasons why, one is protein ingestion either over your daily req of .8g/kg or over 40g at one time produced ammonia from its processing into amino acids. BCAAs are not processed, they also do not break down in the liver. The correct amount of bcaas reduce ammonia (too many at once can increase it).

But for now look it like Nitric Oxide boosters. People see arginine as a supplement. They do not compare pump products to protein.
How about posting a link to the studies instead of just vaguely referencing them
I got this study where they took mice and prevented them from using their hind legs. Its called a suspension test. BCAAs greatly slowed down muscle loss in their leg muscle from in activity compared to the mice with no bcaas
 
heavylifter33

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People always say this, but this is a misconception. Its like saying "do you get enough protein? then you do not need arginine or citrulline products for pumps"

No one eats 2 chx breast preworkout for pumps and that has 4g of arginine.

I'm getting together a lot of research on BCAAs to explain and breakdown soon because I think BCAAs (free form) should be treated as a supplement, not something to compare to protein powder/food. Protein powder is more better compared to dietary sources of protein.

For instance, I have research where casein supplements didn't do as much for being anti-catabolic as a lower dose of free form aminos. There are many reasons why, one is protein ingestion either over your daily req of .8g/kg or over 40g at one time produced ammonia from its processing into amino acids. BCAAs are not processed, they also do not break down in the liver. The correct amount of bcaas reduce ammonia (too many at once can increase it).

But for now look it like Nitric Oxide boosters. People see arginine as a supplement. They do not compare pump products to protein.
The OP's question was specifically directed at muscle gain and recovery. You injecting ergogens in to the discussion is irrelevant.

In bulking situations, BCAA supplementation is about as worthless as you can get. You will find no study to support that claim. Adequate protein intake and surplus calories plus exercise are the building blocks of muscle gain. With adequate protein intake the body has plenty of surplus energy and aminos to build muscle. This also ties in to muscle recovery where surplus calories and protein intake are both crucial. Again, amino acid supplementation will not improve recovery.
 
Chuck Diesel

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BCAAs are an integeral part of a protein, but ingested during a workout there most likely fate is oxidation, no youre drinking an expensive energy drink. Moreover the proteins are what, when ingested, are able to code for a new protein. The BCAAs cant as they are incomplete.

You're better off eating more protein if your goal is to build muscle. BCAAs and EAAs are generally used to negate muscle loss during exercise, enhance recovery, provide substrate for energy etc.
You're actually better off getting .8g/kg of body weight protein and stopping there. Thats the thing, its not BCAAs or protein, once you get .8g/kg of protein, you will always ben. more from increased free form bcaas. The #1 cause of excessive ammonia production is people consuming too much protein.
There is like a bazzion studies on intra workout BCAAs. Leucine for one decreases ammonia by reducing glutamate dehydrogenase. I actually read something on excess protein intake and the liver this AM. Free form BCAAs are not "protein."

So its all based on do you get .8g/kg of protein? If the answer is yes, I suggest adding BCAAs. Now if you want to g ape sht on protein, and get 1.8g/kg like most "fitness" people want to do thats up to the individual. Sometimes you cant change tradition.
 
Chuck Diesel

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How about posting a link to the studies instead of just vaguely referencing them
Hey I was just posting what I know, its 730pm, Im not digging up studies tonight. I have a lot of studies at my site for my BCAA product, you look them up.
 
Chuck Diesel

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The OP's question was specifically directed at muscle gain and recovery. You injecting ergogens in to the discussion is irrelevant.

In bulking situations, BCAA supplementation is about as worthless as you can get. You will find no study to support that claim. Adequate protein intake and surplus calories plus exercise are the building blocks of muscle gain. With adequate protein intake the body has plenty of surplus energy and aminos to build muscle. This also ties in to muscle recovery where surplus calories and protein intake are both crucial. Again, amino acid supplementation will not improve recovery.
The way it works is BCAAs take the other aminos and build muscle. Free form BCAAs also have anti-catabolic effects. "Protein" is different and has to be digested and processed in the liver. Excess protein is also the #1 cause for excess ammonia in the body.

Like I said, its like thinking eating 2 chicken breast is going to give you the same pumps as an Arginine HCL product.

When it comes to "a must or hype" they are not either or per se. Thats like saying "test boosters a must or hype." That doesnt mean they are useless.
 
ahawk01

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The OP's question was specifically directed at muscle gain and recovery. You injecting ergogens in to the discussion is irrelevant.

In bulking situations, BCAA supplementation is about as worthless as you can get. You will find no study to support that claim. Adequate protein intake and surplus calories plus exercise are the building blocks of muscle gain. With adequate protein intake the body has plenty of surplus energy and aminos to build muscle. This also ties in to muscle recovery where surplus calories and protein intake are both crucial. Again, amino acid supplementation will not improve recovery.
I don't think this is 100 percent correct. I think there's something to a quick spike of bcaas post. There's more to bcaas than as a bolus while fasted. Scivations recent study is interesting.
 
Chuck Diesel

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The OP's question was specifically directed at muscle gain and recovery. You injecting ergogens in to the discussion is irrelevant.
Arginine is a free form amino acid that increases Nitric Oxide. BCAAs have their purpose. What do you mean I'm injecting ergogens into the discussion?

Chicken breast doesn't give no one pumps or boners. Or better yet eggs or egg protein which is really high in arginine.
 
ddubbs

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I went for a year taking not one protein shake. and barely eating any protein at all just using BCAA's When I worked at ALR industries.
My weight barely moved that year from 269 to 275. I was on the road and was barely taking in calories most days I ate one a day maybe twice not 6-8 times a day.. I didn't lose muscle and I stayed lean.
Author new his stuff on BCAAS and Chuck does too it's exactly on point with what Author said. My point was you don't need food or protein shakes or you will lose muscle. I cut right to the chase and used BCAA's. I also watched Author live on just Humapro (which is mostly eaas) for a year. He maintained his size and got leaner. over a year no other proteins.
Also before I worked at ALR all I did was eat and use shakes. My physique looked way better after I started using BCAAS.
I also got a lot leaner not adding 250 calories on every shake. I kept a gallon full of bcaas and drank that all day everyday
 
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You're actually better off getting .8g/kg of body weight protein and stopping there. Thats the thing, its not BCAAs or protein, once you get .8g/kg of protein, you will always ben. more from increased free form bcaas. The #1 cause of excessive ammonia production is people consuming too much protein.
There is like a bazzion studies on intra workout BCAAs. Leucine for one decreases ammonia by reducing glutamate dehydrogenase. I actually read something on excess protein intake and the liver this AM. Free form BCAAs are not "protein."

So its all based on do you get .8g/kg of protein? If the answer is yes, I suggest adding BCAAs. Now if you want to g ape sht on protein, and get 1.8g/kg like most "fitness" people want to do thats up to the individual. Sometimes you cant change tradition.
how about you post references that flow against the grain where .8g per kg of protein with added aminos produced the same level of muscle mass growth as the isotrope studied 1.8g per kg/bw for athletes.

Also, if you think BCAAs can produce a structual protein in of themselves -you would benefit greatly from a look at how a protein is coded and what aminos it needs.
 
Chuck Diesel

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how about you post references that flow against the grain where .8g per kg of protein with added aminos produced the same level of muscle mass growth as the isotrope studied 1.8g per kg/bw for athletes.

Also, if you think BCAAs can produce a structual protein in of themselves -you would benefit greatly from a look at how a protein is coded and what aminos it needs.
I didn't say .8g produces anything less or more than 1.8g. I said if your getting the min, you may benefit more from adding BCAAs before more protein.

You guys are crazy with your "post some references." Protein intake does not trump training and overall diet.
 
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I find BCAA's as well as glutamine beneficial to me personally 10 years after I said they did nothing.
 
Jiigzz

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I didn't say .8g produces anything less or more than 1.8g. I said if your getting the min, you may benefit more from adding BCAAs before more protein.

You guys are crazy with your "post some references." Protein intake does not trump training and overall diet.
Based on what?

Protein intake is diet.. moreover, it is pretty clear where the 'optimal' level of protein intake currently sits. 0.8g/kg is optimal for the non training population - if you think their demands and our demands are equal, you maaay want to do more research.
 
Jiigzz

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I went for a year taking not one protein shake. and barely eating any protein at all just using BCAA's When I worked at ALR industries.
My weight barely moved that year from 269 to 275. I was on the road and was barely taking in calories most days I ate one a day maybe twice not 6-8 times a day.. I didn't lose muscle and I stayed lean.
Author new his stuff on BCAAS and Chuck does too it's exactly on point with what Author said. My point was you don't need food or protein shakes or you will lose muscle. I cut right to the chase and used BCAA's. I also watched Author live on just Humapro (which is mostly eaas) for a year. He maintained his size and got leaner. over a year no other proteins.
Also before I worked at ALR all I did was eat and use shakes. My physique looked way better after I started using BCAAS.
I also got a lot leaner not adding 250 calories on every shake. I kept a gallon full of bcaas and drank that all day everyday
I ate chicken wings every meal for a year and then grew my own.
 
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Based on what?

Protein intake is diet.. moreover, it is pretty clear where the 'optimal' level of protein intake currently sits. 0.8g/kg is optimal for the non training population -

Which has changed more times than Hillary has lied.
 
Chuck Diesel

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Also, if you think BCAAs can produce a structual protein in of themselves. -you would benefit greatly from a look at how a protein is coded and what aminos it needs.
?? ^^^ I didn't say BCAAs "transform into" protein. I said BCAAs basically form muscle from the other aminos and they are anti-catabolic. Who said BCAAs for structural protein?

Everyone is always getting up in arms about BCAAs, or anything that isn't $10/kg. You can just avoid free form aminos if you do not like
what they are proposed to do.
 
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Which has changed more times than Hillary has lied.
Times change - but these values have remained stagnent for a while. Is it not fair to ask for some kind of reference to back up a claim?
 

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