Ecdysterone / Iron Forged's Most Wanted as a natural anabolic?

[dirtygainz]

Wassup guys, longtime lurker first time poster here.

I tried to find a solid answer to this around the forums but could not find one so sorry if some of this is redundant.

Pretty much I am a 20 year old male and have been tracking my diet and training for about 4 years now. I dont want to delve into PH or AAS yet as I am too young but I am looking to find out if ecdysterone would be a good natural anabolic for me? Obviously I am not expecting PH like results, just the main thing is just something that is non-hormonal and will have no significant impact on my endocrine system. I have looked at Most Wanted as an ecdysterone containing supplement and on the border whether to make the purchase. Or maybe you guys know of a better supplement other than ecdysterone that would work?

Cheers

 

[goodvibes]

Ara had been proven to be very effective. As a bulker I consider it a better compound compared to 4ad/1ad and ostarine.

 

[LeanEngineer]

When I bulk I usually run Anabeta Elite by PES and then an epicatechin product. That's what i like.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Wassup guys, longtime lurker first time poster here.

I tried to find a solid answer to this around the forums but could not find one so sorry if some of this is redundant.

Pretty much I am a 20 year old male and have been tracking my diet and training for about 4 years now. I dont want to delve into PH or AAS yet as I am too young but I am looking to find out if ecdysterone would be a good natural anabolic for me? Obviously I am not expecting PH like results, just the main thing is just something that is non-hormonal and will have no significant impact on my endocrine system. I have looked at Most Wanted as an ecdysterone containing supplement and on the border whether to make the purchase. Or maybe you guys know of a better supplement other than ecdysterone that would work?

Cheers

Up until two weeks ago I'd have said something different, but lookie here:

Ecdysterone Beats Popular Anabolics!? Plus 75% Muscle Size in 21 Days in Rats - More Than DHT, IGF-1, Dianabol... - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

**BUT**

Like Danes said in a few posts, you need to dose the heck out of this stuff - to the tune of something like $300/Month. Read this part:

Bottom line: In spite of the fact that the study provides quite convincing evidence in favor of the unexpected potency of Ecdysterone, there is a problem with dosing. While the scientists say they used 5mg/kg body weight in order "mimic the situation in athletes", the correct rodent equivalent of the aforementioned dosages of up to 1g per day would be roughly 50-75mg/kg per day and thus far more than the meager 5mg/kg the researchers used.

In other words, if they didn't accidentally give us the human equivalent dose instead of the actual rodent dose, those 1g/day some bodybuilders may be taking should be way more than you'd need to see significant increases in muscle gains and that is a problem.

Why? Well, not because I'd believe that dosages as high may have toxic side effects, but rather in view of the fact that you can hardly imagine that a drug as effective as that wouldn't be all over the place in the discussions on pertinent bulletin boards. A 2006 study by Wilborn et al. even fuels the doubts, because it found no performance or hypertrophy effects in the 15 out of 45 subject of their 8-week training study who consumed 30 mg of 20-hydroxyecdysone per day from an allegedly standardized (but not tested) extract from Suma root. An even older study by Simakin et al. (1988), however, appears to confirm the existence of potent anabolic effects of ecdysterone in humans with significant increases in lean (6-7%) and reductions in fat mass (10%) in a 3-week study on 78 highly-trained male and female subjects. In view of the conflicting evidence, I am still very skeptical whether (a) the results translate to human beings, whether (b) the growth promoting effect is maybe restricted to slow twitch fibers and thus of little use to bodybuilders and whether (c) the supplements that are already being sold actually contain ecdysterones

He has a point - do a 4 or 8 week cycle of any of the popular brands at label dosages, and see if you even come close to the gains seen in the 1-Andro University Study. *If* it works in humans at all - I think Danes is correct - you need a ton, and that ain't too cost effective - but that's subjective I guess.

 

[ma70]

Logging it right now double dosed. Not sure if I'll ever call it a natural anabolic, but more of an adaptogen. This stuff isn't cheap, especially dosing this stuff at normal price. Thankfully, I got my bottles for dirt cheap.

 

[Danes]

Up until two weeks ago I'd have said something different, but lookie here:

Ecdysterone Beats Popular Anabolics!? Plus 75% Muscle Size in 21 Days in Rats - More Than DHT, IGF-1, Dianabol... - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

**BUT**

Like Danes said in a few posts, you need to dose the heck out of this stuff - to the tune of something like $300/Month. Read this part:



He has a point - do a 4 or 8 week cycle of any of the popular brands at label dosages, and see if you even come close to the gains seen in the 1-Andro University Study. *If* it works in humans at all - I think Danes is correct - you need a ton, and that ain't too cost effective - but that's subjective I guess.

Great post there big guy!
Ecdysteroids are very good adaptogen compounds and you dont need a huge dose to experience a good revovery.
As I said earlier, there are many factors involved to make a great ecdysterone product and not to mention to get a good results from those compounds.
If you want a good natural Anabolic effect from ecdysteroids you need:
1.solid dose
2.Quality extracts.
3.absorption/adsorption/bioavailability enchancers

You mix all those 3 and you get potent and effective natural Anabolic.
I have tried it and I swear it was amazing. Recovery,Musclefullness, Increased pumps, Strength, recovery and even MUCH better endurance.

Here is a more detailed info about the info The_Old_Guy posted and it is very impressive.
Ecdysteroids: A novel class of anabolic agents? (I do like what they wrote: "To clarify its status in sports, ecdysterone should be considered to be included in the class "S1.2 Other Anabolic Agents" of the list of prohibited substances of the World Anti-Doping Agency"
Yes, it is a rat study but it IS amazing. in Rats, it works better or same as IGF1,SARM, DHT, Dianabol etc.
lot of ingredients used in supplements nowadays dont even have rat studies.

I wish I could show you guys old russian studies I have seen on ecdysteroids. It is very impressive.
The main key for optimizing ecdysteroid effects is to enhance bioavailability/adsorption and absorption. I am STILL working on a "delivery method" used buy russian scientists. Until then, I recommend Beta-Cyclodextrin. there are some russian studies proving effectivity of Beta-Cyclodextrin/ecdysterone.
That is why i really like the idea of Most Wanted. Complexing Ecdysterone and Laxogenin with solid dose of Beta-Cyclodextrin.

from my own experience (since I have tried high doses of best quality ecdysteroids you can find. 3d party tested by 4 labs /HPLC tested here in Norway. imported directly from ICPS), it works and it is One of the best natural anabolics you can buy, BUT it is far from cost effective. and I mean FAR!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

BUT it is far from cost effective. and I mean FAR!

Yes, this is the part I mentioned. I think when I asked you about Tonvera Ecdy/Turk, you said the label dosages would make you feel better "wellbeing", but if lean body mass gains are what we want, we need to dose 5x the label, or something like that. When I did the math, IIRC an 8 week cycle came out to $600.

 

[Danes]

Yes, this is the part I mentioned. I think when I asked you about Tonvera Ecdy/Turk, you said the label dosages would make you feel better "wellbeing", but if lean body mass gains are what we want, we need to dose 5x the label, or something like that. When I did the math, IIRC an 8 week cycle came out to $600.

Definitely.and then buying Cyclodextrin which is not cheap either

 

[IFN15]

Wassup guys, longtime lurker first time poster here.

I tried to find a solid answer to this around the forums but could not find one so sorry if some of this is redundant.

Pretty much I am a 20 year old male and have been tracking my diet and training for about 4 years now. I dont want to delve into PH or AAS yet as I am too young but I am looking to find out if ecdysterone would be a good natural anabolic for me? Obviously I am not expecting PH like results, just the main thing is just something that is non-hormonal and will have no significant impact on my endocrine system. I have looked at Most Wanted as an ecdysterone containing supplement and on the border whether to make the purchase. Or maybe you guys know of a better supplement other than ecdysterone that would work?

Cheers

Most Wanted will deliver great results for you while it is expensive quality ecdysteroids are far from cheap, you can find a few multi-pack deals for around $100 on most wanted i believe which you could dose 3-4 caps per day on and get some pretty nice results. ma70 is doing an unsponsored review on it right now and is getting great results so far.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

I've heard ecdysterone does nothing in humans. The National Institute of Health published a study where is did absolutely nothing compared to a placebo.

 

[Danes]

I've heard ecdysterone does nothing in humans. The National Institute of Health published a study where is did absolutely nothing compared to a placebo.

That is not true. It is a HORRIBLE study where they used 200mg ecdysterone. Which quality? No details at all.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

That is not true. It is a HORRIBLE study where they used 200mg ecdysterone. Which quality? No details at all.

So there is still hope

 

[Danes]

So there is still hope

Ofcourse!

 

[ma70]

I've heard ecdysterone does nothing in humans. The National Institute of Health published a study where is did absolutely nothing compared to a placebo.

This is a huge, heavily debated subject all over the internet. You've gotta do more research than saying "I heard this/that". Anecdotal feedback is decent for them though, if they are sourced correctly, dosed effectively, and used properly IMO.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

This is a huge, heavily debated subject all over the internet. You've gotta do more research than saying "I heard this/that". Anecdotal feedback is decent for them though, if they are sourced correctly, dosed effectively, and used properly IMO.

It was the only study I've ever heard of. Are there any other studies not conducted or funded by supplement companies about it?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

So there is still hope

For $300 a month (or more), maybe!

 

[ma70]

For $300 a month (or more), maybe!

Definitely not cost effective. I'd like to label it as time effective though...because if you use it as an adaptogen and beat the crap out of yourself for 4-8 weeks you can definitely reap the benefits of it.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

For $300 a month (or more), maybe!

Ahh so what dosage is proven to be effective?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Ahh so what dosage is proven to be effective?

if it works at all in people, a lot. Read the last page of this thread:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/273466-ecdysteroids-quinoa-3.html

 

[Deleted member 238667]

if it works at all in people, a lot. Read the last page of this thread:

I just always believed the study I read. It seems impractical to take that much though. Thanks for the resource though, I will definitely look at this!

 

[booneman77]

Ya, as everyone is saying, ecdy (while promising) needs ridic doses... not really cost effective.

My suggestions for better alternatives:

Xgels + anabeta elite + soy lecithin granules
Magnitropin
Epi-plex

those are pretty much the best natty things we have avaialble and have seen good results with around here.

 

[Danes]

Ya, as everyone is saying, ecdy (while promising) needs ridic doses... not really cost effective.

My suggestions for better alternatives:

Xgels + anabeta elite + soy lecithin granules
Magnitropin
Epi-plex

those are pretty much the best natty things we have avaialble and have seen good results with around here.

I would definitely add HMB FA to that list. New human studies are out. It is effective anti catablic supplement

 

[Deleted member 238667]

XGels and Anabeta are just so expensive though. I'm looking to try them if I can ever find a good deal on them!

 

[ma70]

XGels and Anabeta are just so expensive though. I'm looking to try them if I can ever find a good deal on them!

Ecdysterone/Laxogenin are just as expensive, if not more expensive. You can always just try one. You don't have to go crazy stacking. Just eat right and train hard, and try these new anabolics one by one.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

What is the recommended dose of Ecdysterone though? I have bulk powder laying around somewhere, I just stopped using it after I read it was ineffective

 

[Danes]

What is the recommended dose of Ecdysterone though? I have bulk powder laying around somewhere, I just stopped using it after I read it was ineffective

You can take Low quality ecdy in HIGH doses without any results at all. That is main problem with ecdy. Crap raws supplement companies order from china claiming to be 98% HPLC tested. That is just lie

Where did you bought your bulk powder?

 

[Deleted member 238667]

I have powder from a website called PowderCity. They say it's 95% HPLC tested and show test sheets. They say 300mg - 500mg is the effective dose

 

[Deleted member 238667]

And it's almost $1 per 500mg serving.

 

[Danes]

I have powder from a website called PowderCity. They say it's 95% HPLC tested and show test sheets. They say 300mg - 500mg is the effective dose

500-1000mg I will say. But it need to be good quality.
I am not sure about quality of PC powder.
I would Like to test it one day. I really doubt it is 95% HPLC tested

 

[ma70]

500-1000mg I will say. But it need to be good quality.
I am not sure about quality of PC powder.
I would Like to test it one day. I really doubt it is 95% HPLC tested

Powder City is held to be reliable by quite a few people, actually. Worth a try though.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

Powder City is held to be reliable by quite a few people, actually. Worth a try though.

That's great! I'll finish off what I have and maybe order some more if I feel it's working. I heard it increases appetite, but I always assumed it was the placebo effect

 

[Deleted member 238667]

500-1000mg I will say. But it need to be good quality.
I am not sure about quality of PC powder.
I would Like to test it one day. I really doubt it is 95% HPLC tested

If you happen to test it, I'd like to hear about it!

 

[ma70]

That's great! I'll finish off what I have and maybe order some more if I feel it's working. I heard it increases appetite, but I always assumed it was the placebo effect

You need to dose this stuff high since it's just normal ecdysterone (500+, easily). Also, you need to be really beating the crap out of yourself. This stuff makes recovery pretty easy, so you need to be training very hard.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

This just in: it tastes terrible. Lol

 

[Deleted member 238667]

You need to dose this stuff high since it's just normal ecdysterone (500+, easily). Also, you need to be really beating the crap out of yourself. This stuff makes recovery pretty easy, so you need to be training very hard.

Normal ecdysterone as opposed to what?

 

[goodvibes]

Ya, as everyone is saying, ecdy (while promising) needs ridic doses... not really cost effective.

My suggestions for better alternatives:

Xgels + anabeta elite + soy lecithin granules
Magnitropin
Epi-plex

those are pretty much the best natty things we have avaialble and have seen good results with around here.

This and I'll stick to my first post, go with ara. Don't make it too complicated, tried, tested and reasonable price. PA is cheap so just throw that in the cycle too.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

This and I'll stick to my first post, go with ara. Don't make it too complicated, tried, tested and reasonable price. PA is cheap so just throw that in the cycle too.

What's better for the price? X-Factor or XGels? XGels seem to be hard to find

 

[booneman77]

What's better for the price? X-Factor or XGels? XGels seem to be hard to find

Xgels are usually on sale somewhere so they're typically cheaper.

 

[ma70]

Normal ecdysterone as opposed to what?

No absorption enhancers.

 

[goodvibes]

What's better for the price? X-Factor or XGels? XGels seem to be hard to find

I'll leave the math to you. Sale prices vary from time to time.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

So for the ecdysterone advocates, would Universal's natural Sterol complex be a good product to try? It seems fairly cheap but it doesn't disclose how much ecdysterone is in it

 

[banjobounce]

Powder City is held to be reliable by quite a few people, actually. Worth a try though.

I have never bought ecdy from them, but everything else I have ordered seems spot on, especially supps that have an acute effect such as citrulline, etc.

 

[ma70]

I have never bought ecdy from them, but everything else I have ordered seems spot on, especially supps that have an acute effect such as citrulline, etc.

Mixelflick loves them, and I trust that guy to know his stuff. I believe there are some others here too....kisaj, maybe?

 

[AKM007]

Tonvara turkesterone is supposedly the one to go for if money is no object....Also there is Mixelflick's own product Mass Synthagen which contains full spectrum RCE

Disclaimer: Haven't personally tried these but posting for info...

 

[ma70]

Tonvara turkesterone is supposedly the one to go for if money is no object....Also there is Mixelflick's own product Mass Synthagen which contains full spectrum RCE

Disclaimer: Haven't personally tried these but posting for info...

Had good results with Mass Pro Synthagen, and having decent ones with Most Wanted. This is sort of why I'm an ecdy believer, but I'm also tailoring my training program to take advantage of them.

 

[AKM007]

Had good results with Mass Pro Synthagen, and having decent ones with Most Wanted. This is sort of why I'm an ecdy believer, but I'm also tailoring my training program to take advantage of them.

Could you elaborate? Is it an overreaching routine or something akin to German volume training? How would one go about getting the max out of an ecdy product?

 

[ma70]

Could you elaborate? Is it an overreaching routine or something akin to German volume training? How would one go about getting the max out of an ecdy product?

Personally, I feel like the people who use Ecdysterone or even Laxogenin should train with a higher frequency style, as opposed to a typical Bro Split. I think it's best for athletes too, who rely on recovery from doing a lot of everything.

 

[IFN15]

Personally, I feel like the people who use Ecdysterone or even Laxogenin should train with a higher frequency style, as opposed to a typical Bro Split. I think it's best for athletes too, who rely on recovery from doing a lot of everything.

This^^^^^^^^^^^ You need to stress the body for adaptogens such as laxogenin and ecdysterone to shine

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Kelei has over-reaching programs at bbcom that would be perfect for this, at least much better than GVT imo. The frequency in the GVT protocol is still too low, I agree with what ma70 said.