X-Gels/X-Factor and Anabeta Elite

[Zoomie33240]

I know there are a ton of questions on this but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I am currently finishing an awesome cut (5-6% bf) and I am going to use ABE and ARA for my lean bulk for winter. I have a quick question about the dosing of the ARA though. I train fasted when cutting and love it for fat loss; however, when I am bulking I like to have a small meal an hour-hour and a half pre-workout (i.e. banana and scoop of protein) instead of training fasted.

My question is would it be acceptable to eat the small meal with a pill of ABE and an hour or so later dose the ARA and other pre-workout supps (ALCAR, GMS, and pre-workout product) and then hit the gym 40-60min later? I was going to dose the ABE one with pre meal, one with post meal, and two caps later in the day with a big meal.

I appreciate the feedback! I've never used ARA (been natty bodybuilding for over 10 years) and am excited to give it a shot. I used to post on here all the time but haven't in a few years (military life got in the way). I had to create this new profile to keep in touch on the forums. Thanks again!

 

[Woody]

If you're set on eating the meal, dose the ArA as you go to the gym so it's as far away from meal as possible.

Optionally, you could take the ArA at the gym after you've completed your warm up sets and such.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Thanks for the reply! I've never bulked doing fasted workouts and I just don't like the idea of it honestly (unless someone has some experience with it that can chime in). I also really want to get at least one or two pills of ABE in pre-workout if I can and I don't think it would treat me well on an empty stomach unfortunately.

 

[kbayne]

Any reason why you want to split the ABE dose into 1,1, 2?

And with ArA, if you have the meal pre-workout, just dose prior to gym or during warm up sets. You're over complicating things. ArA is still going to be effective as long as your dosing prior to weight training.

 

[bb333]

Ara + Abe
my favorite stack.
I tried many times, always working,
in periods of bulk, in periods of cut, always impressive results.

Protocol my favorite:

Days off (no training)

20 minutes before breakfast, 2cps Abe
20 minutes before dinner, 2cps Abe

Days on (training)

fasting, 6 soft gels Ara, 2cps Abe, at least 30 minutes prework.
2cps Abe, 20 minutes before the meal, postwork.

I personally, along with ara and abe, add 20 grams of soy lecithin.

 

[TrainerTone]

And with ArA, if you have the meal pre-workout, just dose prior to gym or during warm up sets. You're over complicating things. ArA is still going to be effective as long as your dosing prior to weight training.

This^ ArA is effective for me whether I eat prior to training or if I'm training fasted

 

[bb333]

This^ ArA is effective for me whether I eat prior to training or if I'm training fasted

Ara is taken on an empty stomach.
30-45 minutes before working out.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Any reason why you want to split the ABE dose into 1,1, 2?

And with ArA, if you have the meal pre-workout, just dose prior to gym or during warm up sets. You're over complicating things. ArA is still going to be effective as long as your dosing prior to weight training.

Thanks for the help. I wanted to take 4 caps a day and since my pre workout meal is really small I just wanted to split the first 2 cap dose into 1 pre and 1 with post workout meal and then take 2 later with a higher carb meal (probably dinner time) just to spread out the repartitioning properties throughout the day. I'm open to taking 2 pre and 2 post but I figured it would be a better idea to use them with my higher carb meal later in the day to spread out the GDA properties.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Ara + Abe
my favorite stack.
I tried many times, always working,
in periods of bulk, in periods of cut, always impressive results.

Protocol my favorite:

Days off (no training)

20 minutes before breakfast, 2cps Abe
20 minutes before dinner, 2cps Abe

Days on (training)

fasting, 6 soft gels Ara, 2cps Abe, at least 30 minutes prework.
2cps Abe, 20 minutes before the meal, postwork.

I personally, along with ara and abe, add 20 grams of soy lecithin.

Awesome, thanks for the reply. So you train fasted on training days? Does the ABE give you GI issues on an empty stomach? I was taking ephedrine, caffeine, GMS, and nitrosigine pre-workout fasted while cutting and didn't have any issues but ABE is another story.

 

[Zoomie33240]

This^ ArA is effective for me whether I eat prior to training or if I'm training fasted

I hear that as well. Thanks for the input!

 

[Zoomie33240]

Also, just a side question just for fun. Has anyone ever heard of a 12 week ABE run? Seeing as it doesn't have arimistane any longer I was wondering why it hasn't been done?

 

[kbayne]

Also, just a side question just for fun. Has anyone ever heard of a 12 week ABE run? Seeing as it doesn't have arimistane any longer I was wondering why it hasn't been done?

It never contained Arimistane. That was Erase / Erase Pro.

Stick to 8 on and 4 off.

 

[kbayne]

Awesome, thanks for the reply. So you train fasted on training days? Does the ABE give you GI issues on an empty stomach? I was taking ephedrine, caffeine, GMS, and nitrosigine pre-workout fasted while cutting and didn't have any issues but ABE is another story.

Forskolin is more than likely the culprit with the GI issues.

 

[Zoomie33240]

It never contained Arimistane. That was Erase / Erase Pro.

Stick to 8 on and 4 off.

Right, I misremembered the cortisol control 5-androsten-3B7B-diol-17-one that was taken out of it. Is there any reason people haven't tried a 12 week on 8 week off? Just curious. And I was definitely thinking it was the Forskolin as well. That is why I was curious about the dosing scheme. I love ABE pre-workout but it gets a little bit more complicated when you throw ARA in the mix.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Bump for an answer on the ABE for 12 week idea? I like to do cyclic bulking and cutting phases to I'll do a short cut after a 12 week bulk. Just wondering why it's a bad idea to use ABE for more than 8 weeks? Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[bb333]

Bump for an answer on the ABE for 12 week idea? I like to do cyclic bulking and cutting phases to I'll do a short cut after a 12 week bulk. Just wondering why it's a bad idea to use ABE for more than 8 weeks? Thanks again for all the replies.

think of it like that,
the excesses are never a good thing.

sorry for the bad English, I am Italian

 

[kbayne]

Right, I misremembered the cortisol control 5-androsten-3B7B-diol-17-one that was taken out of it. Is there any reason people haven't tried a 12 week on 8 week off? Just curious. And I was definitely thinking it was the Forskolin as well. That is why I was curious about the dosing scheme. I love ABE pre-workout but it gets a little bit more complicated when you throw ARA in the mix.

People have ran for 12 weeks, but not recommended.

And no need to over complicate things by simply adding ABE + ArA in the pre-workout setting. If you get GI issues from forskolin pre-workout, don't dose it pre-workout. There are numerous ways to go about dosing. Personally like I mentioned before, dosing 2 prior to your 2 largest meals during the day makes for dosing simple and effective.

 

[Zoomie33240]

People have ran for 12 weeks, but not recommended.

And no need to over complicate things by simply adding ABE + ArA in the pre-workout setting. If you get GI issues from forskolin pre-workout, don't dose it pre-workout. There are numerous ways to go about dosing. Personally like I mentioned before, dosing 2 prior to your 2 largest meals during the day makes for dosing simple and effective.

I think I'll just try it both ways for sure. I love ABE (from previous runs) and I'm really looking forward to starting this bulk next week. I'm just still on the fence about working out fasted during a bulk (I have to train before work on vast majority of days first thing in the morning). I'll probably just give the small meal idea a shot.

I know that it isn't recommended to do ABE for 12 weeks but is there any particular reason as to why (like x,y, or z in Anabeta Elite absolutely needs to be cycled every 8 weeks)? I know that there have been many 12 week studies on forskolin as well. Thanks so much again for all of the help!

 

[kbayne]

I think I'll just try it both ways for sure. I love ABE (from previous runs) and I'm really looking forward to starting this bulk next week. I'm just still on the fence about working out fasted during a bulk (I have to train before work on vast majority of days first thing in the morning). I'll probably just give the small meal idea a shot.

I know that it isn't recommended to do ABE for 12 weeks but is there any particular reason as to why (like x,y, or z in Anabeta Elite absolutely needs to be cycled every 8 weeks)? I know that there have been many 12 week studies on forskolin as well. Thanks so much again for all of the help!

I personally dislike training in a fasted state, whether cutting or bulking. If you do have to train fasted, you could do carb backloading (essentially eating a large carb meal before bed to aid in performance for training the next morning).

Simply to give the system a break from the ingredients contained in ABE. 8 weeks on 4 weeks off is the recommended dosing time for most/if not all supplements.

 

[Zoomie33240]

I personally dislike training in a fasted state, whether cutting or bulking. If you do have to train fasted, you could do carb backloading (essentially eating a large carb meal before bed to aid in performance for training the next morning).

Simply to give the system a break from the ingredients contained in ABE. 8 weeks on 4 weeks off is the recommended dosing time for most/if not all supplements.

I hate it for everything but cutting. My body works great in a fasted state while carb cycling. I definitely don't want to do it while bulking so I'm with you 100% on that. I may log my bulk if I have time just to get back into the Anabolicminds scene.

I definitely understand on cycling the supps. I usually always do a run no longer than 8 weeks. I was just curious if anyone had done it and why you would or wouldn't do it. I appreciate all the help! Looking forward to next week. I'm ready to have a steady stream of carbs in my system after 10 weeks of low/no carb cycling. Refeeds only go so far haha

 

[kbayne]

I hate it for everything but cutting. My body works great in a fasted state while carb cycling. I definitely don't want to do it while bulking so I'm with you 100% on that. I may log my bulk of I have time just to get back into the Anabolicminds scene.

I definitely understand on cycling the shops. I usually always do a run no longer than 8 weeks. I was just curious if anyone had done it and why you would or wouldn't do it. I appreciate all the help! Looking forward to next week. I'm ready to have a steady stream of carbs in my system after 10 weeks of low/no carb cycling. Refeeds only go so far haha

ABE will help tremendously with the carb intake and nutrient partitioning. Should see some nice muscle fullness, appetite increase, strength, and LBM increase all while increasing your caloric intake.

 

[Zoomie33240]

ABE will help tremendously with the carb intake and nutrient partitioning. Should see some nice muscle fullness, appetite increase, strength, and LBM increase all while increasing your caloric intake.

I love the "post-contest/post-cut rebound" as it is. Always can put on muscle fairly quickly with your body in such a super-compensation state. Throwing in ABE and ARA is just going to make it that much more fun. My vascularity is already crazy from losing all of the bodyfat so I can't imagine how it's going to be with extra carbs, ABE, and ARA. Sick!

Just out of curiosity, after the ABE and ARA run, do you have any suggestions about another stack to bridge into/switch into? I'm going to throw DAA into the mix with the ABE and ARA probably so I was just trying to brainstorm a good follow-on stack to the ABE and ARA.

 

[kbayne]

I love the "post-contest/post-cut rebound" as it is. Always can put on muscle fairly quickly with your body in such a super-compensation state. Throwing in ABE and ARA is just going to make it that much more fun. My vascularity is already crazy from losing all of the bodyfat so I can't imagine how it's going to be with extra carbs, ABE, and ARA. Sick!

Just out of curiosity, after the ABE and ARA run, do you have any suggestions about another stack to bridge into/switch into? I'm going to throw DAA into the mix with the ABE and ARA probably so I was just trying to brainstorm a good follow-on stack to the ABE and ARA.

Magnitropin and/or Phosphatidic Acid.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Magnitropin and/or Phosphatidic Acid.

I've been really interested in Magnitropin so that sounds like a winner. I honestly haven't done much research on Phosphatidic Acid

 

[Zoomie33240]

Magnitropin and/or Phosphatidic Acid.

I've been really interested in Magnitropin so that sounds like a winner. I honestly haven't done much research on Phosphatidic Acid

 

[kbayne]

I've been really interested in Magnitropin so that sounds like a winner. I honestly haven't done much research on Phosphatidic Acid

Solid feedback and data on PA.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Solid feedback and data on PA.

I'll probably def give it a shot then. I want to run a good long bulk if at all possible (especially having to slowly add back in carbs/cals and slowly back off the cardio). I have one more question about the ARA that I forgot to ask if you don't mind. Do you think that GMS or Soy Lecithin is better with it?

 

[bb333]

I'll probably def give it a shot then. I want to run a good long bulk if at all possible (especially having to slowly add back in carbs/cals and slowly back off the cardio). I have one more question about the ARA that I forgot to ask if you don't mind. Do you think that GMS or Soy Lecithin is better with it?

lecitina di soia!

 

[Zoomie33240]

lecitina di soia!

I have heard that quite a bit =)

 

[Zoomie33240]

Anyone else want to chime in on the last question?

 

[Woody]

Anyone else want to chime in on the last question?

Either one works. I use Soy Lecithin simply because I'd use SL anyway for the PA. It's the fat in the granules you want, not the PA. I use 2 tbsp preworkout with 2g ALCAR. Otherwise it's 3-6g GMS. It can't be Hydromax though, because you need the fat from GMS to emulsify ArA

 

[kbayne]

I'll probably def give it a shot then. I want to run a good long bulk if at all possible (especially having to slowly add back in carbs/cals and slowly back off the cardio). I have one more question about the ARA that I forgot to ask if you don't mind. Do you think that GMS or Soy Lecithin is better with it?

If you want the PA, SL.

If not, either works.

 

[criticalbench]

X-Factor + Ana Beta was one of my favorite stacks along with GMS and LCLT.

 

[Zoomie33240]

If you want the PA, SL.

If not, either works.

Sweet thanks! I've never used SL and may give it a try. Just wanted to make sure the pumps/bloodflow was as good with SL as it is with GMS.

 

[Zoomie33240]

X-Factor + Ana Beta was one of my favorite stacks along with GMS and LCLT.

Good to know! I wish they still had the original Anabeta (maybe they do but I haven't see it). I'm really looking forward to this run though!

 

[Woody]

Sweet thanks! I've never used SL and may give it a try. Just wanted to make sure the pumps/bloodflow was as good with SL as it is with GMS.

GMS isn't used with ArA to increase pumps and blood flow. It's used to emulsify the ArA.

edit: there is still OG Anabeta out there. Pm me if you'd like

 

[Zoomie33240]

GMS isn't used with ArA to increase pumps and blood flow. It's used to emulsify the ArA.

edit: there is still OG Anabeta out there. Pm me if you'd like

I know about the emulsification. I have just used GMS in the past as a pump amplifier. I was just wondering (since they are both emulsifiers used with ARA) which one people felt was better for emulsification and which one was better for pumps (if either are better).I've never used SL but it looks like a really good option for the PA. I think I saw 1200mg PA for 2 tablespoons. What is the normal 'clinical' dosage of PA if anyone knows?

 

[Woody]

I know about the emulsification. I have just used GMS in the past as a pump amplifier. I was just wondering (since they are both emulsifiers used with ARA) which one people felt was better for emulsification and which one was better for pumps (if either are better).I've never used SL but it looks like a really good option for the PA. I think I saw 1200mg PA for 2 tablespoons. What is the normal 'clinical' dosage of PA if anyone knows?

SL/PA isn't a pump product. There aren't any acute effects. But it helps with muscle fullness and more.

I take 2 tbsp before and after. I believe the range is 2-5% or 3-7% maybe PA. So 2% of 30g is 600 mg I believe. The study was 750 mg IIRC.

GMS will give a better pump. SL will give better long term benefits

 

[Zoomie33240]

SL/PA isn't a pump product. There aren't any acute effects. But it helps with muscle fullness and more.

I take 2 tbsp before and after. I believe the range is 2-5% or 3-7% maybe PA. So 2% of 30g is 600 mg I believe. The study was 750 mg IIRC.

GMS will give a better pump. SL will give better long term benefits

Nice, I was just wondering if it would be more worth it to take the SL for the PA since the ARA will help a lot with pump as it is. However, after cutting for over two months I am really looking forward to a good pump =). I saw that Cutler King had like 1g of PA and that sparked my curiosity about what the actual effective dose was.

 

[Jiigzz]

How the heck did I miss a thread with X-gels in the title

I like PA personally as its cheaper to get and has multiple benefits. GMS is getting harder to find now as companies are making the shift to a micronized version which doesn't emulsify like normal GMS.

If you want pumps specifically, I'd go for GMS, if you want fullness, go for PA.

 

[Woody]

Nice, I was just wondering if it would be more worth it to take the SL for the PA since the ARA will help a lot with pump as it is. However, after cutting for over two months I am really looking forward to a good pump =). I saw that Cutler King had like 1g of PA and that sparked my curiosity about what the actual effective dose was.

Concentrated PA won't work. There's a lot of benefits - look for the thread 'I'm on Phosphatidic acid yall'.

 

[Zoomie33240]

How the heck did I miss a thread with X-gels in the title

I like PA personally as its cheaper to get and has multiple benefits. GMS is getting harder to find now as companies are making the shift to a micronized version which doesn't emulsify like normal GMS.

If you want pumps specifically, I'd go for GMS, if you want fullness, go for PA.

I know I'm being a little lazy just asking you all for the answer but I like to have anecdotal evidence as well; does PA help with muscle growth or what is the overall benefit that people are seeing with it? I wouldn't mind at all to try SL out since I never have and it's very affordable. I'm still not exactly sure how many tablespoons to take as well. I think each tablespoon is 8g of SL.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Also, quick side note question just for fun. I just saw a mass gainer on a great sale that has 25g carbs (maltodextrin) and 8g protein per scoop (whey concentrate) you can get 180 scoops total on a bogo for 24.99. I was just wondering if anyone had an opinion on a post workout carb/protein shake? I've never done it personally but wouldn't mind to play around with it.

I could save quite a bit of protein with that product by just saving my post workout scoop of protein and just taking a scoop of the mass gainer with a pill of anabeta elite and just eating my post workout meal when I got home.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Concentrated PA won't work. There's a lot of benefits - look for the thread 'I'm on Phosphatidic acid yall'.

Right, I know that PA is not an emulsifier, it's just an extra goody in the SL. I was just trying to compare the PA content in King vs the amount you get by taking SL.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Bump

 

[Zoomie33240]

No more input?

 

[kbayne]

IMO, skip the mass gainer.

 

[Zoomie33240]

IMO, skip the mass gainer.

I ended up skipping it =) Im still on the fence about the SL. Just because I'm coming off of an extreme cut I don't want to go straight to 4 TBS a day and bloat up. I'm def going to try it though after reading all the feedback.

Looks like people even run it while bulking without ARA right? Seems like good stuff

 

[Woody]

I ended up skipping it =) Im still on the fence about the SL. Just because I'm coming off of an extreme cut I don't want to go straight to 4 TBS a day and bloat up. I'm def going to try it though after reading all the feedback.

Looks like people even run it while bulking without ARA right? Seems like good stuff

I take it year round for the most part. Hard to handle the flavor after so many tubs but a lot of people still enjoy it.

 

[Zoomie33240]

I take it year round for the most part. Hard to handle the flavor after so many tubs but a lot of people still enjoy it.

That's really good to know. I'm looking forward to giving it a shot. Do you think that it would bloat me too bad going straight to 4 tablespoons per day after coming off of a hard cut? I was thinking about doing half that for a couple weeks and then upping it to let my body adjust.