LSD

[thebigt]

chemist's have been making lsd and similar drugs since the 60's....today you can find meth anywhere you want to look....why is it we have to look to china to buy raws for supplements?

there obviously is a high demand for quality raws, the supply seems to be on the short side...why aren't American entrepreneur's getting involved in the making of supplement raws????? to hell with piss poor rip off Chinese raws, I know we can do better!!!!!

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

From my understanding china is a lot cheaper to produce raws as they have different OSHA and compliance standards

 

[thebigt]

From my understanding china is a lot cheaper to produce raws as they have different OSHA and compliance standards

yes...cheaper AND inferior....we want QUALITY!!!!


I WONDER HOW MANY TIMES AMERICAN SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES HAVE BEEN BURNED BY THE CHINESE?

 

[wicked442]

All of AgeForce patches are 100% American made.

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

it doesn't always mean inferior products if it was produced in china. There just a lot more things that america needs in terms of working and benefits

 

[VaughnTrue]

yes...cheaper AND inferior....we want QUALITY!!!!


I WONDER HOW MANY TIMES AMERICAN SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES HAVE BEEN BURNED BY THE CHINESE?

why are supplements that are made in china inferior to raws made elsewhere?

if a compound is tested, and shown to be 99.9% pure and it's made from china, does it perform worse than a compound tested to be 99.9% pure and its made in the USA?

 

[thebigt]

it doesn't always mean inferior products if it was produced in china. There just a lot more things that america needs in terms of working and benefits

would you buy a car made in china? if you did what would you do if it was a lemon and the Chinese said-oh well?

what if an American company buys 5 shipments from china that all checked out, then they get a huge, costly, shipment that is supposed to be 95% but tests at 75%...the Chinese refuse to make it right.

I have bought supps that worked great, then when I buy them again it doesn't work so good. I always thought it was just my tolerance to the product, now I wonder.

 

[thebigt]

All of AgeForce patches are 100% American made.

that is a huge plus in your favor, imo.

 

[Young Gotti]

came into the thread thinking we would be discussing the grateful dead, the hippie mafia, and shakedown street

 

[VaughnTrue]

would you buy a car made in china? if you did what would you do if it was a lemon and the Chinese said-oh well?

what if an American company buys 5 shipments from china that all checked out, then they get a huge, costly, shipment that is supposed to be 95% but tests at 75%...the Chinese refuse to make it right.

I have bought supps that worked great, then when I buy them again it doesn't work so good. I always thought it was just my tolerance to the product, now I wonder.

I don't think you're looking at this in the eyes of a supplement manufacturer. I understand what you're saying, but in this case it doesn't hold merit if the manufacturer is following the rules & laws set forth by cGMP.

Every ingredient used in a dietary supplement must be tested for identity and purity. So if I buy 1,000kg of Creatine Monohydrate(just for haha's, could be any ingredient), I would need to test this ingredient upon receiving it. Once the test comes back with a passing grade(if it fails it is destroyed immediately), it would then be cleared to go into production. Upon the completion of the run, the product would then be re-tested for identity + purity of all active ingredients.

A chemical made anywhere on the planet that is 99.9% pure will behave identically to a chemical made anywhere else on the planet that is 99.9% pure.


Now, if a company doesn't test their ingredients(and are therefor not cGMP), there is no way in hell I'd buy a product from them...no matter where their raws are from!

 

[thebigt]

I don't think you're looking at this in the eyes of a supplement manufacturer. I understand what you're saying, but in this case it doesn't hold merit if the manufacturer is following the rules & laws set forth by cGMP.

Every ingredient used in a dietary supplement must be tested for identity and purity. So if I buy 1,000kg of Creatine Monohydrate(just for haha's, could be any ingredient), I would need to test this ingredient upon receiving it. Once the test comes back with a passing grade(if it fails it is destroyed immediately), it would then be cleared to go into production. Upon the completion of the run, the product would then be re-tested for identity + purity of all active ingredients.

A chemical made anywhere on the planet that is 99.9% pure will behave identically to a chemical made anywhere else on the planet that is 99.9% pure.


Now, if a company doesn't test their ingredients(and are therefor not cGMP), there is no way in hell I'd buy a product from them...no matter where their raws are from!

very good post, Vaughn!!!

what percentage of sup companies do you think are cGMP? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

 

[VaughnTrue]

very good post, Vaughn!!!

what percentage of sup companies do you think are cGMP? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Unfortunately, that's something no one can know for sure. I try to make sure I post up COA's when requested to help give our customers the peace of mind to know that they're getting what they pay for.

I tend to stick with companies who have a great track record and are willing to post COA's of ingredients and finished products when requested, or needed.

 

[thebigt]

Unfortunately, that's something no one can know for sure. I try to make sure I post up COA's when requested to help give our customers the peace of mind to know that they're getting what they pay for.

I tend to stick with companies who have a great track record and are willing to post COA's of ingredients and finished products when requested, or needed.

dang dude...that takes a lot of the bite out of your post if we don't know who the good guys are!!!! unfortunately this leaves a lot of cracks to fall through for non-compliant companies, imo.

 

[Matthew1237]

I've made LSD plenty of times in my bathtub.

 

[thebigt]

I've made LSD plenty of times in my bathtub.

haven't we all...:sombrero:

 

[VaughnTrue]

dang dude...that takes a lot of the bite out of your post if we don't know who the good guys are!!!! unfortunately this leaves a lot of cracks to fall through for non-compliant companies, imo.

eh, you don't know who is cGMP, just like you don't know which food companies are actually selling you untainted food. Gotta go with who you trust.

Just because something in created in china, or germany, or belize, makes no difference on its purity/effectiveness. Instead of being concerned where things are being produced, I suggest being more concerned that you're getting pure compounds and what is actually listed on the label!

 

[kisaj]

came into the thread thinking we would be discussing the grateful dead, the hippie mafia, and shakedown street

Immediately got butterflies in my stomach when I saw the thread title. lol

 

[thebigt]

eh, you don't know who is cGMP, just like you don't know which food companies are actually selling you untainted food. Gotta go with who you trust.

Just because something in created in china, or germany, or belize, makes no difference on its purity/effectiveness. Instead of being concerned where things are being produced, I suggest being more concerned that you're getting pure compounds and what is actually listed on the label!

I know if I buy a car made in Germany it will be quality, or else the germans will stand by it and make it good, the same cannot be said for the Chinese since they seem to have a monopoly on raws.

what would a shady company do if they were shafted by the Chinese?

 

[VaughnTrue]

I know if I buy a car made in Germany it will be quality, or else the germans will stand by it and make it good, the same cannot be said for the Chinese since they seem to have a monopoly on raws.

what would a shady company do if they were shafted by the Chinese?

a shady company would probably never test the raws, and have no clue they're bad.

a legit company would have tested the raws, and never released a sub-par product.

Hi-Tech
LG sciences
APS
iForce
ALRI
Formutech

are all cGMP and have many many many FDA audits which show this

 

[thebigt]

a shady company would probably never test the raws, and have no clue they're bad.

a legit company would have tested the raws, and never released a sub-par product.

Hi-Tech
LG sciences
APS
iForce
ALRI
Formutech

are all cGMP and have many many many FDA audits which show this

thanks for the list, I only wish it were more complete..MOST of the companies that have survived and been around for awhile are probably trustworthy, imo.

 

[VaughnTrue]

thanks for the list, I only wish it were more complete..MOST of the companies that have survived and been around for awhile are probably trustworthy, imo.

I would strongly beg to differ. You have to realize 99% of companies don't manufacture their own supplements. They use contract manufacturers, many of which are less than trustworthy(yes, I have found this out from auditing them and testing products via 3rd party labs).

big companies like ON, MuscleTech, Gaspari...their products will most assuredly test correctly. Some of the more "popular" brands on various forums...not so much.

 

[thebigt]

I would strongly beg to differ. You have to realize 99% of companies don't manufacture their own supplements. They use contract manufacturers, many of which are less than trustworthy(yes, I have found this out from auditing them and testing products via 3rd party labs).

big companies like ON, MuscleTech, Gaspari...their products will most assuredly test correctly. Some of the more "popular" brands on various forums...not so much.

DAMN...so this puts us right back where I started from!!!!

 

[Volvo140G]

thankfully most L doesn't come from China. knockoff research chems however, yes.

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

thebigt, after reading your posts it honestly seems you are just anti-china. Things like that can happen anywhere, not just china. Germany can put out faulty products and not do anything about it. Let's say 1 in 100 people are corrupt and won't / sells faulty product. Look at China's population to anywhere else in the world, and you have the answer why. Plus now that they got rid of one child law, the number is bound to jump up a couple million

 

[HardB0iled]

I know if I buy a car made in Germany it will be quality, or else the germans will stand by it and make it good, the same cannot be said for the Chinese since they seem to have a monopoly on raws.

what would a shady company do if they were shafted by the Chinese?

The Germans never do anything shady, right? Oh wait...

 

[Woody]

I've made LSD plenty of times in my bathtub.

Heisenberg is based on my life. I'm writing this from
blue meth Heaven.


And now probably going to Hell soon.

 

[thebigt]

thebigt, after reading your posts it honestly seems you are just anti-china. Things like that can happen anywhere, not just china. Germany can put out faulty products and not do anything about it. Let's say 1 in 100 people are corrupt and won't / sells faulty product. Look at China's population to anywhere else in the world, and you have the answer why. Plus now that they got rid of one child law, the number is bound to jump up a couple million

actually if you really read my posts you would see that I am pro-American, and wish raws would be made here in the good old USA where there would be more accountability.

 

[VaughnTrue]

actually if you really read my posts you would see that I am pro-American, and wish raws would be made here in the good old USA where there would be more accountability.

the only effect this would ultimately have is higher prices on products, with no increase in overall purity.

 

[thebigt]

the only effect this would ultimately have is higher prices on products, with no increase in overall purity.

you are probably right....it would be nice to see MADE IN AMERICA more often though!!!!

 

[Danes]

yes...cheaper AND inferior....we want QUALITY!!!!


I WONDER HOW MANY TIMES AMERICAN SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES HAVE BEEN BURNED BY THE CHINESE?

And STILL are BURNED by the chinese crap !

 

[Danes]

And STILL are BURNED by the chinese crap !

Here is a example:
To make whole story short, I got some turkesterone samples from china..it was Ajuga Turkestanica claimed to have 40% Turkesterone.(which is impossible. 10% turk in ajuga is the highest world have seen)
Raw 1. It was actually low quality tribulus terrestris
Raw 2 had barely trace of turkesterone
Raw 3 same as raw2
Raw 4 same as raw3.

Got many samples of ecdy from different vendors claiming their ecdy is 98% pure.(HPLC tested).
Many of raws was not ecdy at all
And the best one was just 20% ecdy (HPLC tested).

I am not saying all raws from china is crap but it is much garbage out there