BCAA timing...

[halljo]

I used to think that BCAA usage was best at meal times (including protein shakes)... then I read that BCAA's arw really important during a workout... then I read that BCAA's are more important before bed (assuming they meant with a Casein protein shake). So if everytime is the right time for BCAA's, should we be sucking down BCAA's constantly, all day long or what?
(I gotta stop reading so many articles and other stuff... everything contradicts the other study... gets confusing after awhile)

 

[Driven2lift]

Don't drink constantly

You will find the most use for free form BCAAs during fasted periods between meals or peri-workout

There is a refractory period for protein synthesis, save your money and get the same results with the above dosing.

How much dietary protein are you consuming? Can be a factor.

Meal Frequency?

 

[puccah8808]

I was watching Bios3training talk about BCAA and how it makes you hold on to fat.

 

[AntM1564]

Don't drink constantly

You will find the most use for free form BCAAs during fasted periods between meals or peri-workout

There is a refractory period for protein synthesis, save your money and get the same results with the above dosing.

How much dietary protein are you consuming? Can be a factor.

Meal Frequency?

This. If you're get ting enough protein, you may not need BCAA. Between meals that are 4-6 hours apart and pre workout if training fasted.

 

[halljo]

I am just curious as the more I read, it seems the more the target moves.
I take in around 280/300 grams of protein, I eat about every two hours (breaking meals in half; helps me cut)... plus protein before (1.5hr before workout, immediately after workout and before bed). Just started taking BCAA mix with my PWO.

 

[Driven2lift]

With Your PWO is always a decent option, you should not need it otherwise any time of day with this structure, just wasted money if you do IMO.

I only use it in 4-5 hour gaps between meals

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm a bit crazy with my BCAA dosing. I use 5grams for every 1.5L of water I drink, and I drink water all day. I use it just as flavoring (only way I can drink a lot of water) and as a bit of a boost to my protein intake. I probably get 15-20g dosed through sipping my water all day, and another 10g intra-workout. This is my staple dosing, year round. Bit much maybe lol

Recently I've started taking N-acetyl tyrosine twice a day though. Supposedly BCAAs can deplete dopamine, somehow, in the absence of tyrosine.

 

[LeanEngineer]

^^ I agree. I pretty much use bcaas for flavoring my water. They really help during a cut I think as well. Mainly cause they are something sweet and not fatting ha

 

[Driven2lift]

Hey man if you enjoy it why not. Within that diet timing won't really make a difference for you though so just enjoy it. Extra aminos and good taste

 

[The Solution]

I used to think that BCAA usage was best at meal times (including protein shakes)... then I read that BCAA's arw really important during a workout... then I read that BCAA's are more important before bed (assuming they meant with a Casein protein shake). So if everytime is the right time for BCAA's, should we be sucking down BCAA's constantly, all day long or what?
(I gotta stop reading so many articles and other stuff... everything contradicts the other study... gets confusing after awhile)

Where are you reading this stuff and what is your source? it is horribly wrong.
BCAA's with meals = not optimal. If you are not eating a proper meal or getting enough protein from a protein supplement you need to 1) eat more protein at a meal or get a better protein supplement. Adding more amino's does not = better. once you meet a proper leucine threshold more is not better.

2) Before bed? Sure if you do not meet protein intake, you do not need casein before bed. If you meet protein intake in the 24 hour period what you eat or drink before bed is irrelevant. If you want steak eat steak, if you want a protein shake have a protein shake. if you want to mix protein in yogut or cottage cheese and it helps you meet protein intake? Then rock it out.

let me quote Mr Cooper about sipping on amino's constantly, it is not beneficial.

"Don't fall for the "it's a great replacement for sugary drinks" argument. BCAAs are 6 calories per gram, and when sipped in an all day fashion, contribute heavily to both an insulin response and gluconeogenesis. Sipping on BCAA’s takes away from MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis) as levels never get a chance to reach refractory stages before being spiked again The net effect is increased insulin and blood sugar. So when you sip on BCAAs instead of sugary drinks...you replace blood sugar with insulin.
"

Between meals 4-6 hours apart as a bolus, or for pre-workout fasted training
Mike McCandless of Scivation (Owner) has a study coming out at the turn of the new year on Xtend and its dosing in a University published study he said that will change the outlook on BCAA supplementation and dosing. So until then i am eager to see what he has in the works.

 

[rascal14]

wouldn't increased insulin be a good thing though?

 

[Driven2lift]

wouldn't increased insulin be a good thing though?

For both fat and muscle though

 

[The Solution]

wouldn't increased insulin be a good thing though?

do you really want to spike insulin all day long? not so much.
Do you want to eat chicken even 10 minutes? basically what you are doing if you are sipping BCAA's all day long.
Your never allowing protein levels to reach their refractory stages because you are constantly elevating them.
If this were the case people would continually eat every 15-20 minutes if that was the "Thing" to do.
Drinking BCAA's all day, not so much.

Do you drink a 1 gallon protein shake all day long? i highly doubt it.

 

[Gutterpump]

The insulin / gluconeogenesis thing is real. I can't get into ketosis if using bcaas all day.

Edit: even when mega dosing BCAAs, I'll still lose weight on a cut/recomp though

 

[Young Gotti]

I sip bcaa's starting about 45 minutes prior to my workout, then I always use them intra

 

[jalfrey]

Everybody else has already nailed this. But for my two cents I use 5-6g PWO (always training fasted), 5-6g intra, and if skipping breakfast for IF, another 5-6g post.

 

[The Solution]

Everybody else has already nailed this. But for my two cents I use 5-6g PWO (always training fasted), 5-6g intra, and if skipping breakfast for IF, another 5-6g post.

Martin Suggests upward to 10g off his website:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/05/early-morning-fasted-training.html

Similar to fasted training, 10 g BCAA is ingested pre-workout. However, instead of initiating the feeding phase immediately post-workout, which is the standard protocol for regular fasted training, another 10 g BCAA is ingested two hours after the first. A third dose may then be ingested depending on when the client prefers his feeding-window.

 

[Gutterpump]

Martin Suggests upward to 10g off his website:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/05/early-morning-fasted-training.html

Similar to fasted training, 10 g BCAA is ingested pre-workout. However, instead of initiating the feeding phase immediately post-workout, which is the standard protocol for regular fasted training, another 10 g BCAA is ingested two hours after the first. A third dose may then be ingested depending on when the client prefers his feeding-window.

I usually dose 10g intra, with carbs (on a TKD). I don't usually have more than a protein shake 2 hours prior to training. Think that's fine?

 

[The Solution]

I usually dose 10g intra, with carbs (on a TKD). I don't usually have more than a protein shake 2 hours prior to training. Think that's fine?

if you have a protein shake prior to training the need for a BCAA intra may not be necessary (even martin does not recommend unless you train fasted) if meeting protein intake in the 24 hour period. Food will still be overlapping into the post-workout period.

 

[Gutterpump]

I was hoping the free form aminos would help with endurance because I have long sessions in the gym. Hrm maybe the placebo effect is worth it though

 

[The Solution]

I was hoping the free form aminos would help with endurance because I have long sessions in the gym. Hrm maybe the placebo effect is worth it though

Amino's do not help with endurance. Aminos are protein in free form. if you want endurance. Does steak or chicken give you endurance? Not so much, Same with whey protein. Remember these are what build up major forms of protein.
LCLT (2g)
Creatine (3-5g)
Betaine (2.5g)
Synerglut (2.5g)
COP (2g)
HICA (1-1.5g)
Beta-Alanine (3-4g) split into two doses.
These will help with endurnace and performance

 

[Gutterpump]

Right but free form aminos won't help with muscle endurance though? Along with my carbs that is. I use MST RPG, a blend of BCAAs, EAA's with added (extra) glutamine, plus freeze dried berry extracts.

 

[Gutterpump]

I notice a huge difference in performance (work capacity and strength) when I don't use this intra ^^

 

[The Solution]

Right but free form aminos won't help with muscle endurance though? Along with my carbs that is. I use MST RPG, a blend of BCAAs, EAA's with added (extra) glutamine, plus freeze dried berry extracts.

Let me ask you again
Does Steak, Chicken, or Fish help with muscle endurance? Most likely not.
BCAA's are free forms of whole food protein or whey protein
Do people slug down whey protein intra workout to aid endurance? Most likely not.

You are trying to Combine X Y and Z together and pinpoint one variable. You cannot do that because it will skew the final outcome. Just like people who try to do a review on a pre-workout, but stack a non-stim and BCAA product with it. How can you really review that pre-workout when you add multiple other variables in the situation. Same case with you. Your adding Carbs and other factors on top of BCAA's into one cocktail and trying to say X (BCAA's) are providing the endurance. Which is not the case.

Your seeing endurance because your adding in Carbs aka Glucose, which will give you energy during a workout and replenish what are losing when lifting weights (carbs/calories/glycogen). Glutamine wont aid with muscle building or endurance. Glutamine if anything may aid digestion and digestion support. Besides that its not going to be a miracle drug for endurance or muscle recovery.

 

[Gutterpump]

Hrm, well I still definitely notice a big boost in work capacity and strength when I include 10g of BCAA's with my intra water. I've seen others report the same. I only just recently started including carbs with this

 

[The Solution]

Hrm, well I still definitely notice a big boost in work capacity and strength when I include 10g of BCAA's with my intra. I've seen others report the same. I only just recently started including carbs with this

Do you see people rave over increased capacity eating fish intra-workout instead of sipping on BCAA's? Most likely not.
Do you see people eating protein bars, chicken, or steak intra-workout and raving over how they see increased work capacity? Most likely not.
People do not drink whey protein intra-workout for a reason its not enhancing endurnace, they drink it to help reach protein intake in the 24 hour period.
Since your training fed most chances are the need for BCAA are minimal

Overall Cliffs:

- Nutrient Timing can be beneficial but window of opportunity is not as big as believed
- Provided protein rich meal 3-4 hours prior to training, there is no stress about immediate post-workout protein supplement or meal
- Consume .4-.5g/kg of LBM in a pre/post workout exercise window spaced 4-6 hours depending on meal size.

Bold is a reason why the need for BCAA's intra when you are already fed wont merit you much. again its protein in free form. if your meeting protein intake its not really that beneficial

http://www.nsca.com/videos/conference_lectures/nutrient_timing_revisited/

http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/uploads/Norton-J-Ag-Food-Ind-Hi-Tech-2008.pdf
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass

 

[Gutterpump]

Also, I believe glutamine and isoleucine have shown to be involved with gluconeogenesis as well, so even if taken without carbs, I believe the liver will turn these aminos around as glucose very quickly when taken in free form. Definitely quick enough that they kicked me out of ketosis in the past

 

[Gutterpump]

Do you see people rave over increased capacity eating fish intra-workout instead of sipping on BCAA's? Most likely not.
Do you see people eating protein bars, chicken, or steak intra-workout and raving over how they see increased work capacity? Most likely not.
People do not drink whey protein intra-workout for a reason its not enhancing endurnace, they drink it to help reach protein intake in the 24 hour period.
Since your training fed most chances are the need for BCAA are minimal

Overall Cliffs:

-Nutrient Timing can be beneficial but window of opportunity is not as big as believed
-Provided protein rich meal 3-4 hours prior to training, there is no stress about immediate post-workout protein supplement or meal
-Consume .4-.5g/kg of LBM in a pre/post workout exercise window spaced 4-6 hours depending on meal size.

Bold is a reason why the need for BCAA's intra when you are already fed wont merit you much. again its protein in free form. if your meeting protein intake its not really that beneficial

http://www.nsca.com/videos/conference_lectures/nutrient_timing_revisited/

http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/uploads/Norton-J-Ag-Food-Ind-Hi-Tech-2008.pdf
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass

Food takes too long to digest and pulls blood to the digestive system, this is why whey and/or solid food isn't taken intra workout. A piece of chicken or steak would take a very long time to digest and for these aminos to hit the bloodstream. This is why free form aminos (as a supplement) were invented. For quick absorption. I'm not sure why you would compare apples and oranges, it's like comparing enteric coated pills to raw powder no?

Chicken also wouldn't provide the same amount of glutamine and isoleucine as these supplements, and this wouldn't help nearly as much as BCAAs in terms of quick gluconeogenesis

 

[LovingtoLift]

I supplement with BCAA's during workouts when Im fasted. I also supplement with them because I love the taste of them. Right now Im using PES Amino IV and I highly recommend it. Its the best BCAA supplement on the market.

 

[Gutterpump]

I was on the train before but I'm back inside now. The Solution, if you'd like, I can post up articles/studies about how glutamine and isoleucine are both glucose-forming?

 

[Gutterpump]

I will find the studies about glutamine/isoleucine being involved with gluconeogesis and post today but I have another question.

If someone is on steroids, do they still need to worry about timing and hitting a refractory stage before eating more protein? mTOR is definitely affected while on, so now this makes me very curious about this.

 

[Driven2lift]

I will find the studies about glutamine/isoleucine being involved with gluconeogesis and post today but I have another question.

If someone is on steroids, do they still need to worry about timing and hitting a refractory stage before eating more protein? mTOR is definitely affected while on, so now this makes me very curious about this.

Less so.
Protein turnover rates are accelerated (strength of the cycle will probably influence this rate)

Refractory stage should be hit sooner on AAS.

 

[The Solution]

I was on the train before but I'm back inside now. The Solution, if you'd like, I can post up articles/studies about how glutamine and isoleucine are both glucose-forming?

Glutamine doesnt help with muscle endurance or performance. Which you are trying to sell here.
on top of BCAA's being muscle endurance and performance. Please show me all of these studies to back this

"The findings indicate little benefit for retention of lean mass with supplementation of glutamine during a short-term weight reduction program."

"Supplemental glutamine would only benefit us if our intracellular muscle glutamine concentrations were depleted. There are numerous studies that indicate no intracellular muscle glutamine depletion whatsoever following extensive exercise, but even if we do experience some glutamine attenuation.... we are still producing it within us, and getting it through our diet.

In healthy adults, dietary consumption of glutamine has been estimated to be around 5 grams per day (3). Foods such as meat, fish, dairy products, eggs, beans, cabbage, spinach, parsley, beets, ect. are all common sources. A single 3-oz serving of meat contains around 3-4 grams of glutamine. (4)

Now let's add on top of all that, the fact that an average 50 gram protein shake, there's about 4.5+ grams of glutamine. So for a 150 lb individual at only 2 protein shakes a day, that's around 9-10 grams of supplemental glutamine. "

"addition of glutamine did not affect whole-body protein synthesis post-exercise. The rate of MPS was not different between trials. The addition of glutamine to a CHO + EAA beverage had no effect on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis or muscle protein synthesis"

"glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults."

"short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men."
"Although glutamine supplementation may increase plasma glutamine levels, its effect on enhancement of the immune system and prevention of adverse effects of the overtraining syndrome are equivocal"

"although the glutamine hypothesis may explain immunodepression related to other stressful conditions such as trauma and burn, plasma glutamine concentration is not likely to play a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immunodepression."

http://jap.physiology.org/content/93/3/813
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/9/2580.full.pdf
http://gut.bmj.com/content/45/1/6.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17111006
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11834123
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10410846
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12183472

the reason i brought up chicken, steak , whey, tuna etc is becuse they provide far more BCAA's. you are already in a fed state, and your meeting protein intake in the 24 hour period, so why do you need more protein. that is what BCAA's are. They have 6kcals/gram of calories and are just protein in free form. Taking them during your workout in a fed state for most is not needed because you are overlapping food intake and you will still be fine to go without them. The reason your seeing better endurnace is the carbs you added not the BCAA's

 

[The Solution]

Amino's do not help with endurance. Aminos are protein in free form. if you want endurance. Does steak or chicken give you endurance? Not so much, Same with whey protein. Remember these are what build up major forms of protein.
LCLT (2g)
Creatine (3-5g)
Betaine (2.5g)
Synerglut (2.5g)
COP (2g)
HICA (1-1.5g)
Beta-Alanine (3-4g) split into two doses.
These will help with endurnace and performance

Take this list, and then show me how many Studies there are to back BCAA on Performance Enhancement if you are meeting protein intake. there will far minimal or any that trump the amount on these ingredients above

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00726-011-0874-6/fulltext.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19706374
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21512399
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21744011
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19727018
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22080314
http://www.jissn.com/content/9/1/12
http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/27
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11788381
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/ajpendo/282/2/E474.full.pdf
http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2818616/

Just saying ^^ those ingredients will always be superior over BCAA's when it comes to endurance and performance like your original statement has stated.

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm definitely not debating that taking BCAAs when protein requirements are met is needed or optimal. I'm trying to decipher why they definitely give me a performance & strength increase.

The only studies that I can provide are ones that show that Glutamine and Isoleucine will convert to glucose. This is something I discovered and then researched after BCAAs kicked me out of ketosis once, years back.

 

[The Solution]

I'm definitely not debating that taking BCAAs when protein requirements are met is needed or optimal. I'm trying to decipher why they definitely give me a performance & strength increase.

The only studies that I can provide are ones that show that Glutamine and Isoleucine will convert to glucose. This is something I discovered and then researched after BCAAs kicked me out of ketosis once, years back.

So what does this have to do with enhancing performance or endurance during training? minimal compared to the list of ingredients i just gave you with the studies to back them and the research.

If your already meeting protein intake, more is not going to help enhance endurance or performance. Your just putting more protein in your system and anything in excess is stored. carbs and fats will be more protein sparing once protein minimums are met. so taking in a lot more protein (unless your on the good stuff) wont really be that much beneficial for recovery or endurance. it would be cheaper to buy those others in bulk and use them. same with whey to help meet protein needs, and whole food.

 

[Gutterpump]

hehe.. .again, I'm not stating that BCAAs are better than your list or optimal, and I am not arguing anything I just want to discover why they give me a performance boost, or have in the past. It could be that I'm not meeting my protein requirements, or something along those lines.

This thread definitely makes me rethink how I use them. I don't think I'll be using them all day anymore. If I put them in my water, I'll make sure to drink that water fast and not sip it all day. I just love the flavors that I have. MST and MAN both have incredible flavors for their BCAAs. I'll probably switch to using True Lemon to flavor my water during the day.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Maybe they give you a performance boost because you expect them to give you a performance boost.

 

[Gutterpump]

Maybe they give you a performance boost because you expect them to give you a performance boost.

That's what I was saying/thinking in an early post in this thread. Could be placebo effect for sure

 

[The_Old_Guy]

It's an absolutely amazing phenomenon. I've read reams on placebo - it blows me away... especially the ones using actual steroids. Makes you look at supplements in a whole different light

 

[JudoJosh]

TL;DR but. ..

RE: BCAAs and performance..

Yes there is a mechanisim by which they can help indirectly improve performance.

RE: BCAAs taken with food, yes they can be helpful but it depends on the rest of the meal.

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm getting more and more turned off from BCAAs now

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/11/chronic-high-dose-bcaa-supplementation.html

Looks like chronic high dosed BCAAs reduces endurance, even more so with people on a low carb diet, and it all relates to.... ammonia?

 

[The Solution]

TL;DR but. ..

RE: BCAAs and performance..

Yes there is a mechanisim by which they can help indirectly improve performance.

RE: BCAAs taken with food, yes they can be helpful but it depends on the rest of the meal.

Most people who have a meal meet proper leucine threshold, the need to add more aminos may be minimal if any at all.

I remember Layne when he held a seminar at the arnold 2 years ago stated to take BCAA's if a meal lacked adequate leucine or most of the protein came from trace sources (like cheese, nuts, nut butters etc). I remember he used the quote "When i eat a pizza most chances are the amount of leucine or protein from that meal will be on the low side, so taking in some amino's with that meal would help meet proper leucine and protein amount at that given meal for MPS"

 

[JudoJosh]

I'm getting more and more turned off from BCAAs now

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/11/chronic-high-dose-bcaa-supplementation.html

Looks like chronic high dosed BCAAs reduces endurance, even more so with people on a low carb diet, and it all relates to.... ammonia?

I would have to read the paper itself, but this does not look like an argument against BCAA supplementation. What I see is a dose - response argument. Within that very stile you see S1 group did outperform (duration) the control group. S2 which had way more BCAAs is where the issue lied.

So it's not an anti - BCAA paper but a anti *TOO MUCH* BCAA paper

 

[Gutterpump]

So it's not an anti - BCAA paper but a anti *TOO MUCH* BCAA paper

Yes for sure, but I was using BCAAs to flavor my water all day. I should've stated that again. Looks like I won't be using it for that purpose anymore! I also never train fasted, so it looks like I have 0 use for BCAAs. I am in love with MST's and MAN's flavoring though I can drink gallons of water when those are mixed in lol

 

[JudoJosh]

Most people who have a meal meet proper leucine threshold, the need to add more aminos may be minimal if any at all.

I remember Layne when he held a seminar at the arnold 2 years ago stated to take BCAA's if a meal lacked adequate leucine or most of the protein came from trace sources (like cheese, nuts, nut butters etc). I remember he used the quote "When i eat a pizza most chances are the amount of leucine or protein from that meal will be on the low side, so taking in some amino's with that meal would help meet proper leucine and protein amount at that given meal for MPS"

Exactly.

The issue here is you are manipulating the statement.

If the question is, is BCAAs beneficial to be taken with a meal.. the answer is, it depends. Not an unequivocal no.

There has been a few whey papers demonstrating this quite well.

Now if the question is (which it wasn't BTW) is BCAA supplementation beneficial on top of a diet with adequate protein, the answer is again.. it depends. What is the reason for the supplementation? If the thought is to increase MPS and thus increase gains.. then the answer is no. It will not help. But if the answer is to increase performance via decreased fatigue, then the answer is possibly. Then there is also the timing (both nutrient and supplement) to take into consideration.

 

[The Solution]

Yes for sure, but I was using BCAAs to flavor my water all day. I should've stated that again. Looks like I won't be using it for that purpose anymore! I also never train fasted, so it looks like I have 0 use for BCAAs. I am in love with MST's and MAN's flavoring though I can drink gallons of water when those are mixed in lol

Just because something tastes good does not always mean its optimal.
I could put 5 scoops of select protein in a gallon jug and just sip on it all day. Probably not the best thing to do muscle protein synthesis wise .

 

[The Solution]

Exactly.

The issue here is you are manipulating the statement.

If the question is, is BCAAs beneficial to be taken with a meal.. the answer is, it depends. Not an unequivocal no.

There has been a few whey papers demonstrating this quite well.

Now if the question is (which it wasn't BTW) is BCAA supplementation beneficial on top of a diet with adequate protein, the answer is again.. it depends. What is the reason for the supplementation? If the thought is to increase MPS and thus increase gains.. then the answer is no. It will not help. But if the answer is to increase performance via decreased fatigue, then the answer is possibly. Then there is also the timing (both nutrient and supplement) to take into consideration.

I know McCandless (Scivation Owner) has a study coming out on Xtend with some of these concerns above start of the new year.
Eager to see what it shows.

 

[JudoJosh]

Yes for sure, but I was using BCAAs to flavor my water all day. I should've stated that again. Looks like I won't be using it for that purpose anymore! I also never train fasted, so it looks like I have 0 use for BCAAs. I am in love with MST's and MAN's flavoring though I can drink gallons of water when those are mixed in lol

Yea sipping BCAA all day is prolly not effective for any outcome really.

But this doesn't mean BCAAs are worthless or serve no purpose. I have a thread on here from a while back explaining a mechanisim in which BCAAs may reduce fatigue. I can try and find it if you like

 

[JudoJosh]

I know McCandless (Scivation Owner) has a study coming out on Xtend with some of these concerns above start of the new year.
Eager to see what it shows.

Don't hold your breathe. He has been alluding to that paper for YEARS now. I recently called him out directly on it and he responded with the most bullsht response possible.