Phosphatidic Acid/SL impressions after a few days

Justlooking5

Justlooking5

Active member
Awards
0
I just started taking soy lecithin (Solgar brand for now, with Fearn's brand on order) this past Saturday and today was my first day weight training with it.
I'll continue to update my experience with it during the next several weeks. So far, I am initially quite impressed.
I am a fairly experienced amateur/hobbyist bodybuilder who has been training in total for about 16 years. After an off period I began training seriously again in March of this year.
I have done several cycles of gear in the past (most recent cycle was 9 years ago).
My current weight is about 216 lbs. prior to am cardio at 6' tall.
Arms currently measure (today) a bit less than 17" pumped and (this morning) 16.5" unpumped. (Last week they were 16.25" unpumped).

I am following a Doggcrapp training routine that has worked well for me, and my goal for this 8-10 week "blasting" bulking phase is to get to about 225 without gaining too much bodyfat, and for my arms to measure 16.75" unpumped and 17.25" or so pumped. Eventually I'd like to have 17" arms unpumped at around 10-12% bodyfat. I am also taking BCAA (30g/day), Beta Alanine (10g/day), Citrulline, Glutamine, fish oil, whey, casein, and betaine. I just stopped taking r-ala except for 100mg in the morning because I'm pretty sure it was interfering with my gains in weight and size.


Anyway, on to my PA impressions. So far, as I said, I am pretty impressed. I have decided to try 6-8 tablespoons of SL per day (I know some people have tried 4-6), which at Fearn's reported dosages should provide around 3,600-4,800mg of PA per day.

After only day one, I noticed a marked increase in muscle fullness. On day two my shirts also seemed to fit tighter, and I could see a difference in fullness/thickness in pics.

Today in the gym, I had an excellent pump, and I hit PRs for this training cycle on most exercises. My arms also measured bigger than they ever have since I got off creatine about 6-7 weeks ago.

So far, PA actually reminds me in some ways of a low dose of a mild oral anabolic, like anavar or turinabol. By low dose I am talking like 20mg/day of anavar, and even then I don't think it's as potent in terms of strength or anabolism, but the pumps, constant fullness, visual changes, increased appetite, and increased strength all remind me of a low-dose anabolic.

If PA actually continues to provide solid increases in strength and LBM, as well as cosmetic fullness and even fat loss, I actually think it could be one of the best supplements yet out there. Better than creatine, BA, BCAA, or any of these other products that provide some benefits but that are usually kind of mild and don't run the full gambit of increased strength, size from legit anabolic signaling, fat loss, and all-day pumps.

Anyone here take PA long-term for several months? What have you noticed?
 
Danes

Danes

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I just started taking soy lecithin (Solgar brand for now, with Fearn's brand on order) this past Saturday and today was my first day weight training with it.
I'll continue to update my experience with it during the next several weeks. So far, I am initially quite impressed.
I am a fairly experienced amateur/hobbyist bodybuilder who has been training in total for about 16 years. After an off period I began training seriously again in March of this year.
I have done several cycles of gear in the past (most recent cycle was 9 years ago).
My current weight is about 216 lbs. prior to am cardio at 6' tall.
Arms currently measure (today) a bit less than 17" pumped and (this morning) 16.5" unpumped. (Last week they were 16.25" unpumped).

I am following a Doggcrapp training routine that has worked well for me, and my goal for this 8-10 week "blasting" bulking phase is to get to about 225 without gaining too much bodyfat, and for my arms to measure 16.75" unpumped and 17.25" or so pumped. Eventually I'd like to have 17" arms unpumped at around 10-12% bodyfat. I am also taking BCAA (30g/day), Beta Alanine (10g/day), Citrulline, Glutamine, fish oil, whey, casein, and betaine. I just stopped taking r-ala except for 100mg in the morning because I'm pretty sure it was interfering with my gains in weight and size.


Anyway, on to my PA impressions. So far, as I said, I am pretty impressed. I have decided to try 6-8 tablespoons of SL per day (I know some people have tried 4-6), which at Fearn's reported dosages should provide around 3,600-4,800mg of PA per day.

After only day one, I noticed a marked increase in muscle fullness. On day two my shirts also seemed to fit tighter, and I could see a difference in fullness/thickness in pics.

Today in the gym, I had an excellent pump, and I hit PRs for this training cycle on most exercises. My arms also measured bigger than they ever have since I got off creatine about 6-7 weeks ago.

So far, PA actually reminds me in some ways of a low dose of a mild oral anabolic, like anavar or turinabol. By low dose I am talking like 20mg/day of anavar, and even then I don't think it's as potent in terms of strength or anabolism, but the pumps, constant fullness, visual changes, increased appetite, and increased strength all remind me of a low-dose anabolic.

If PA actually continues to provide solid increases in strength and LBM, as well as cosmetic fullness and even fat loss, I actually think it could be one of the best supplements yet out there. Better than creatine, BA, BCAA, or any of these other products that provide some benefits but that are usually kind of mild and don't run the full gambit of increased strength, size from legit anabolic signaling, fat loss, and all-day pumps.

Anyone here take PA long-term for several months? What have you noticed?
Long term yes. Good glycogen retention (musclefullness +++), strength and size gains. PA is definitely one of the best natural products you can use nowadays
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
I just started taking soy lecithin (Solgar brand for now, with Fearn's brand on order) this past Saturday and today was my first day weight training with it.
I'll continue to update my experience with it during the next several weeks. So far, I am initially quite impressed.
I am a fairly experienced amateur/hobbyist bodybuilder who has been training in total for about 16 years. After an off period I began training seriously again in March of this year.
I have done several cycles of gear in the past (most recent cycle was 9 years ago).
My current weight is about 216 lbs. prior to am cardio at 6' tall.
Arms currently measure (today) a bit less than 17" pumped and (this morning) 16.5" unpumped. (Last week they were 16.25" unpumped).

I am following a Doggcrapp training routine that has worked well for me, and my goal for this 8-10 week "blasting" bulking phase is to get to about 225 without gaining too much bodyfat, and for my arms to measure 16.75" unpumped and 17.25" or so pumped. Eventually I'd like to have 17" arms unpumped at around 10-12% bodyfat. I am also taking BCAA (30g/day), Beta Alanine (10g/day), Citrulline, Glutamine, fish oil, whey, casein, and betaine. I just stopped taking r-ala except for 100mg in the morning because I'm pretty sure it was interfering with my gains in weight and size.


Anyway, on to my PA impressions. So far, as I said, I am pretty impressed. I have decided to try 6-8 tablespoons of SL per day (I know some people have tried 4-6), which at Fearn's reported dosages should provide around 3,600-4,800mg of PA per day.

After only day one, I noticed a marked increase in muscle fullness. On day two my shirts also seemed to fit tighter, and I could see a difference in fullness/thickness in pics.

Today in the gym, I had an excellent pump, and I hit PRs for this training cycle on most exercises. My arms also measured bigger than they ever have since I got off creatine about 6-7 weeks ago.

So far, PA actually reminds me in some ways of a low dose of a mild oral anabolic, like anavar or turinabol. By low dose I am talking like 20mg/day of anavar, and even then I don't think it's as potent in terms of strength or anabolism, but the pumps, constant fullness, visual changes, increased appetite, and increased strength all remind me of a low-dose anabolic.

If PA actually continues to provide solid increases in strength and LBM, as well as cosmetic fullness and even fat loss, I actually think it could be one of the best supplements yet out there. Better than creatine, BA, BCAA, or any of these other products that provide some benefits but that are usually kind of mild and don't run the full gambit of increased strength, size from legit anabolic signaling, fat loss, and all-day pumps.

Anyone here take PA long-term for several months? What have you noticed?
I have had similar results from SL and the results continue the longer you run it. I have been on SL for many (10) months straight now. I take a lower dose of daily PA then you though. What I found works best for me now is to use a concentrated PA product PWO then SL post workout. The SL can sit heavy in the gut pwo and that's the main reason I switched it to this method.
 

squirtguns89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I have had similar results from SL and the results continue the longer you run it. I have been on SL for many (10) months straight now. I take a lower dose of daily PA then you though. What I found works best for me now is to use a concentrated PA product PWO then SL post workout. The SL can sit heavy in the gut pwo and that's the main reason I switched it to this method.
not to deter you from using any of the good concentrated versions/and or what you prefer (understandable)...
but I've seen little to no reason (at least that im aware of) that you cant just dose the granules 1-3 hours before your workout, PA should still be spiked in plasma a few hours after. the study im thinking of was done with the concentrated stuff also, so i can only presume that granules would take a little longer to digest and that figure could be even more prolonged.
 
Justlooking5

Justlooking5

Active member
Awards
0
Squirtguns have you used PA? What are your impressions?
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
not to deter you from using any of the good concentrated versions/and or what you prefer (understandable)...
but I've seen little to no reason (at least that im aware of) that you cant just dose the granules 1-3 hours before your workout, PA should still be spiked in plasma a few hours after. the study im thinking of was done with the concentrated stuff also, so i can only presume that granules would take a little longer to digest and that figure could be even more prolonged.
You bring up a good point and you are right you can take SL 1-3 hours before your workout and still reap the benefits. However, I usually train in the morning before work so I don't have that much time before my workout. Plus after 6 months of straight SL you get sick of eating them and I used to love the taste. They started to almost make me sick every time I would take them. But, I still enjoy them in a protein shake post workout. So, this set up has really helped me.
 

ma70

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
You bring up a good point and you are right you can take SL 1-3 hours before your workout and still reap the benefits. However, I usually train in the morning before work so I don't have that much time before my workout. Plus after 6 months of straight SL you get sick of eating them and I used to love the taste. They started to almost make me sick every time I would take them. But, I still enjoy them in a protein shake post workout. So, this set up has really helped me.
Agreed. I'm tired of eating them now....just using them until my tubs run out.
 
john.patterson

john.patterson

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
You bring up a good point and you are right you can take SL 1-3 hours before your workout and still reap the benefits. However, I usually train in the morning before work so I don't have that much time before my workout. Plus after 6 months of straight SL you get sick of eating them and I used to love the taste. They started to almost make me sick every time I would take them. But, I still enjoy them in a protein shake post workout. So, this set up has really helped me.
What concentrated PA product are you taking pre-workout? I train first thing in the morning too, which is why I've never given SL a try. I'd be interested to hear your protocol
 

Islander73

New member
Awards
0
I've been using soy lecithin granules since early spring this year. Noticed significant improvement on everything. I would definitely agree that this is on par with creatine for effectiveness but the main difference is it doesn't peak quickly like creatine does then fall off in improving performance. It's slower steady improvements but does not seem to stop being effective as time goes on.
 
Justlooking5

Justlooking5

Active member
Awards
0
I've been using soy lecithin granules since early spring this year. Noticed significant improvement on everything. I would definitely agree that this is on par with creatine for effectiveness but the main difference is it doesn't peak quickly like creatine does then fall off in improving performance. It's slower steady improvements but does not seem to stop being effective as time goes on.
That's really good to hear.

I wonder what accounts for the all day pump... I'm not sure we know, but it seems like it probably is increased glycogen retention, because PA doesn't cause a lot of general bloating ... so this would suggest nutrient partitioning effects.
 

USPlabsRep

Board Sponsor
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
That's really good to hear.

I wonder what accounts for the all day pump... I'm not sure we know, but it seems like it probably is increased glycogen retention, because PA doesn't cause a lot of general bloating ... so this would suggest nutrient partitioning effects.
its also been shown it increase adipocytes and lipogenesis......I would keep an eye on the ability to gain fat easily....
 
Justlooking5

Justlooking5

Active member
Awards
0
Can you clarify with a link? The studies I've read showed greater fat loss in the PA group. Also, are saying it increases the number of fat cells?
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
What concentrated PA product are you taking pre-workout? I train first thing in the morning too, which is why I've never given SL a try. I'd be interested to hear your protocol
I have rotated with King and PhosphaMuscle. I am really looking forward to OL's new PA product that is about to drop.
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
That's really good to hear.

I wonder what accounts for the all day pump... I'm not sure we know, but it seems like it probably is increased glycogen retention, because PA doesn't cause a lot of general bloating ... so this would suggest nutrient partitioning effects.
I believe the muscle fullness is do to the increase in glycogen retention.
 
kboxer7

kboxer7

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I just started taking soy lecithin (Solgar brand for now, with Fearn's brand on order) this past Saturday and today was my first day weight training with it.
I'll continue to update my experience with it during the next several weeks. So far, I am initially quite impressed.
I am a fairly experienced amateur/hobbyist bodybuilder who has been training in total for about 16 years. After an off period I began training seriously again in March of this year.
I have done several cycles of gear in the past (most recent cycle was 9 years ago).
My current weight is about 216 lbs. prior to am cardio at 6' tall.
Arms currently measure (today) a bit less than 17" pumped and (this morning) 16.5" unpumped. (Last week they were 16.25" unpumped).

I am following a Doggcrapp training routine that has worked well for me, and my goal for this 8-10 week "blasting" bulking phase is to get to about 225 without gaining too much bodyfat, and for my arms to measure 16.75" unpumped and 17.25" or so pumped. Eventually I'd like to have 17" arms unpumped at around 10-12% bodyfat. I am also taking BCAA (30g/day), Beta Alanine (10g/day), Citrulline, Glutamine, fish oil, whey, casein, and betaine. I just stopped taking r-ala except for 100mg in the morning because I'm pretty sure it was interfering with my gains in weight and size.


Anyway, on to my PA impressions. So far, as I said, I am pretty impressed. I have decided to try 6-8 tablespoons of SL per day (I know some people have tried 4-6), which at Fearn's reported dosages should provide around 3,600-4,800mg of PA per day.

After only day one, I noticed a marked increase in muscle fullness. On day two my shirts also seemed to fit tighter, and I could see a difference in fullness/thickness in pics.

Today in the gym, I had an excellent pump, and I hit PRs for this training cycle on most exercises. My arms also measured bigger than they ever have since I got off creatine about 6-7 weeks ago.

So far, PA actually reminds me in some ways of a low dose of a mild oral anabolic, like anavar or turinabol. By low dose I am talking like 20mg/day of anavar, and even then I don't think it's as potent in terms of strength or anabolism, but the pumps, constant fullness, visual changes, increased appetite, and increased strength all remind me of a low-dose anabolic.

If PA actually continues to provide solid increases in strength and LBM, as well as cosmetic fullness and even fat loss, I actually think it could be one of the best supplements yet out there. Better than creatine, BA, BCAA, or any of these other products that provide some benefits but that are usually kind of mild and don't run the full gambit of increased strength, size from legit anabolic signaling, fat loss, and all-day pumps.

Anyone here take PA long-term for several months? What have you noticed?
The muscle fullness for me was crazy. I gained 1/4 - 1/2 size on my arms alone.

If you get tired of the taste of those soy granuals, OL is coming out with a new ergogenic SOON (PA + other ergogenics) and will have some crazy good flavors : )
 

dougeefreshh

Member
Awards
0
The muscle fullness for me was crazy. I gained 1/4 - 1/2 size on my arms alone.

If you get tired of the taste of those soy granuals, OL is coming out with Phosphas1ze SOON (PA + other ergogenics) and will have some crazy good flavors : )
Whats eta?
 
kboxer7

kboxer7

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
john.patterson

john.patterson

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I have rotated with King and PhosphaMuscle. I am really looking forward to OL's new PA product that is about to drop.
I've been keeping my eyes out for the OL product as well, I'm definitely gonna have to pick some up. Do you count the grams of fat and calories toward your macros from the SL? That's been my only hang up with buying SL haha
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
I've been keeping my eyes out for the OL product as well, I'm definitely gonna have to pick some up. Do you count the grams of fat and calories toward your macros from the SL? That's been my only hang up with buying SL haha
Yes, I count them into my daily macros. If you are doing straight SL then you have to because those calories & fat content do add up. And that is why it would be a much better option to do concentrated PA if on a cut. Going the straight SL on a bulk or lean bulk. Recomp for me has worked well with a combination of the two.
 
john.patterson

john.patterson

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Yes, I count them into my daily macros. If you are doing straight SL then you have to because those calories & fat content do add up. And that is why it would be a much better option to do concentrated PA if on a cut. Going the straight SL on a bulk or lean bulk. Recomp for me has worked well with a combination of the two.
Awesome man, thanks so much for the quick response and great info. Rep'd.
 
JeremyNG25

JeremyNG25

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
So is this best to take pre ANDDD post workout or only pre workout
 
kboxer7

kboxer7

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
So is this best to take pre ANDDD post workout or only pre workout
The main study on PA that is most often cited for muscle gain used pre+post iirc.

Exercise stressors increase the effectiveness of PA, but it increases mTOR even at rest (though to a lessor extent).

I like 2tbsp pre + 2 post. Sometimes I'll go as high as 5-6tbsp, but above 4 there are diminishing returns imo.

Keep your eyes open for our new PA/Ergogenic coming out soon!
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Yes, I count them into my daily macros. If you are doing straight SL then you have to because those calories & fat content do add up. And that is why it would be a much better option to do concentrated PA if on a cut. Going the straight SL on a bulk or lean bulk. Recomp for me has worked well with a combination of the two.
True, but considering that most people who run a concentrated PA supplement are only taking 750mg PA, you should be getting at least 750mg PA from 18.75g (2.5tbsp) of granules. It's still 10g fat and ~140 calories, but you don't really NEED 4-5tbsp of the granules (at which point the fat and calories really start adding up) to get the benefits of PA (not saying that you were suggesting that you need to take 4-5tbsp, just pointing it out).
 
Chefdeez

Chefdeez

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
its also been shown it increase adipocytes and lipogenesis......I would keep an eye on the ability to gain fat easily....
I've said before that SL granules made me look puffy and bloated and no one believed me.
 
Justlooking5

Justlooking5

Active member
Awards
0
I've gotten some stomach bloating and general fullness so far, but that mainly lasted the first 1-3 days. I'm wondering if USPLabsRep can clarify with more info on the lipogenesis comment.
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
True, but considering that most people who run a concentrated PA supplement are only taking 750mg PA, you should be getting at least 750mg PA from 18.75g (2.5tbsp) of granules. It's still 10g fat and ~140 calories, but you don't really NEED 4-5tbsp of the granules (at which point the fat and calories really start adding up) to get the benefits of PA (not saying that you were suggesting that you need to take 4-5tbsp, just pointing it out).
Absolutely man! That is why I like a combination of the two forms (SL + PA caps). This keeps the calories and fat down, but adding more PA content with keeping the cost down.
 

USPlabsRep

Board Sponsor
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
I've said before that SL granules made me look puffy and bloated and no one believed me.
you mean the "all day" fullness people are experiencing....

8 grams is a lot of fat in itself to use as a "supplement."

All I'm saying, if people choose to use it, keep track of the ability to gain fat easily without changing diet.

Especially after "cheat" meals!
 
BeardedBreast

BeardedBreast

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Op doesn't take supps though, as he believes he only needs food. False flag. FALSE FLAG
 
JeremyNG25

JeremyNG25

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
you mean the "all day" fullness people are experiencing....

8 grams is a lot of fat in itself to use as a "supplement."

All I'm saying, if people choose to use it, keep track of the ability to gain fat easily without changing diet.

Especially after "cheat" meals!
Why are people using so much when 3-4 grams is effective? With fearns soy lecithin granules wouldn't 2 table spoons pre and post workout be more than enough? That's about 3.4 grams PA
 
kboxer7

kboxer7

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Why are people using so much when 3-4 grams is effective? With fearns soy lecithin granules wouldn't 2 table spoons pre and post workout be more than enough? That's about 3.4 grams PA
The PA listed on the label is NOT the actual amount of PA in Fearns, but rather an estimate. The range of PA is 4-7%.

*Keep your eye out for our new PA/Ergogenic product coming out soon ; )
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Why are people using so much when 3-4 grams is effective? With fearns soy lecithin granules wouldn't 2 table spoons pre and post workout be more than enough? That's about 3.4 grams PA
Based on the 4% PA content (low end of the 4-7% range), you only need 18.75g of the granules (2.5 tbsp) to get 750mg PA (the dose used in studies and in concentrated PA supplements). Granted, lots of people have noticed increased benefits with higher doses, but that doesn't mean that lower doses aren't still quite effective.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
The PA listed on the label is NOT the actual amount of PA in Fearns, but rather an estimate. The range of PA is 4-7%.
This. The 8% in Fearn is a bit high, and the crazy amount listed on Optima's label doesn't make much sense. If I had to pick a number for what the average content you're probably getting with the granules is 6%, but I calculate my PA with 4% to ensure (not 100%, but damn close) I'm getting 750mg PA. If I get more, that's nice too.
 

Similar threads


Top