Fat Loss - What's new in the Supp world?

Whacked

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I loved PES Alpha T2 and used it on/off for years. One of my all time fav "relatively" STIM FREE effective fat burners. Miss it dearly :(

Sadly: The new Shift was a total bust for me.

Alphamine - Not a fan. Makes me feel weird although I love Norcadrene -- these are irrelevant for this thread though as I am looking for a non-stim type.

Also: NOT interested in estrogen mitigating products as I'm on TRT w Aromasin as is and my levels are in healthy/appropriate ranges. Don't want to mess w this.

So: What else is out there these days that actually works?

REPS: NO OFFENSE but I'm looking for NON-REP feedback here.l!! Thank you!!
 
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regdabyenoh

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Evomuse has quite a few different products to target fat in different ways, Alphamine and Shift will work but I'm starting to think is the little bit of difference enough to justify spending the money on. However I do use Alphamine as a pre quite allot.
 
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regdabyenoh

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My above statement is regarding all Fatburners not just PES if thats not clear.
 
The Solution

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When in doubt stick to the basics
Forskolin 95 in bulk (50-100mg)
Yohimbine - Start 2.5mg then work upward to .02mg/kg
I would def look into AMMO by Evomuse (Cortisol + Fatburner) (( The Abliderate AMMO formula helps suppress
excess Cortisol levels, helps to reduce Visceral Fat, and controls adipocyte inflammatory cytokine))

a lot of people like it and it is very under the radar as something to consider. I personally have not tried it, but if you know Matt Pearson the guy makes legit products.
 
Woody

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I'm gonna echo the EvoMuse. Ammo would be a good addition or one of the topicals, eviscerate or absolutely abliderated - depending on your body fat.

Forskolin is also a good edition.

I've actually leaned out a bit on Epic Unleashed. While it's not a fat burner, EU sends recovery threw the roof so my workout intensity increases.
 
LiftWithDonuts

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LCLT is working for me for fat loss
 
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ma70

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When in doubt stick to the basics
Forskolin 95 in bulk (50-100mg)
Yohimbine - Start 2.5mg then work upward to .02mg/kg
I would def look into AMMO by Evomuse (Cortisol + Fatburner) (( The Abliderate AMMO formula helps suppress
excess Cortisol levels, helps to reduce Visceral Fat, and controls adipocyte inflammatory cytokine))

a lot of people like it and it is very under the radar as something to consider. I personally have not tried it, but if you know Matt Pearson the guy makes legit products.
Agreed with everything here. I'd also add Caffeine to that list too.
 
mechka_grizli

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I loved PES Alpha T2 and used it on/off for years. One of my all time fav "relatively" STIM FREE effective fat burners. Miss it dearly :(

Sadly: The new Shift was a total bust for me.

Alphamine - Not a fan. Makes me feel weird although I love Norcadrene -- these are irrelevant for this thread though as I am looking for a non-stim type.

Also: NOT interested in estrogen mitigating products as I'm on TRT w Aromasin as is and my levels are in healthy/appropriate ranges. Don't want to mess w this.

So: What else is out there these days that actually works?

REPS: NO OFFENSE but I'm looking for NON-REP feedback here.l!! Thank you!!
Check out lipomorph or evomuse brite. Or stack them like me
 
LeanEngineer

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For me my last cut I ran norcodrene shift and anafuse and I got pretty good results.
i changed my diet alittle of course to but the stack helped out a lot.
 
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ramses31

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Ammo might be the fat burner ive tried even though its suppose to be for cortisol/inflammation control
 
TyMan14

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TTA500, compound 20, epitome, eviscerate, absolutely abliderated. Lots of great stim free options!
 
booneman77

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holy hell guys... how many of you completely ignored the NON STIM portion of his statement... c'mon.

TTA is a favorite of mine, but beware that it can definitely bloat you (it does me), although its temporary, it can be a mind fck. Also make sure you're drinking plenty because if you get them, the cramping can be brutal.

Not around anymore, but AAv2 was a favorite as well... super high dosed capsaicin. If you can find it (and your stomach can handle it), that's a great option.

If the new shift didn't work for you, probably wouldn't bother with forskolin as thats one of the main ingredients.

My gf has used DS lean xtreme and absolutely loved it. appetite control, cortisol control, etc. Not cheap, but comprehensive.

Not technically a fat burner, but Magnitropin did lean me out when I ran it as well.
 
kbayne

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Forskolin-95+
TTA
Epitome (haven't used, but has great feedback for the most part)
 
MidwestBeast

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I'm obviously a rep, but from a non stim standpoint, you could look at:

BRITE and LipoMorph (though both are somewhat in the same category of Shift as far as browning white fat is concerned, so you may not enjoy those as much; though BRITE has seasamol that acts on a more immediate level).

Epitome, Leptigen Basic and Metabolic Rebirth work for different bodyfat ranges in regards to leptin levels.

Ablierate (AMMO - pill, Absolutely or Advanced - topical) help from a cortisol control standpoint

Eviscerate isn't stim free, but as a topical, it isn't something you'll have hit your system and "feel" as you would orally.

TTA, as mentioned already, is a good one

High dosed garcinia cambogia can be helpful

Raspberry ketones and green coffee bean extract to a lesser extent, but still useful

If you can still find it, DCP 2.0 or OG HEAT Stack would both fit the bill.
 
Woody

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Ammo might be the fat burner ive tried even though its suppose to be for cortisol/inflammation control
From Matt

"AMMO also inhibits inflammatory Adipokines, which definitely strip belly fat (I don't like to use that term, it's too abused). Basically, when your adipocytes are shooting out inflammatory cytokines, they will be resistant to giving up their fatty acid stores, and fat burning is seriously crippled. AMMO hits both cortisol and inflammation, allowing for a very quick reduction."
 
Whacked

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holy hell guys... how many of you completely ignored the NON STIM portion of his statement... c'mon.

TTA is a favorite of mine, but beware that it can definitely bloat you (it does me), although its temporary, it can be a mind fck. Also make sure you're drinking plenty because if you get them, the cramping can be brutal.

Not around anymore, but AAv2 was a favorite as well... super high dosed capsaicin. If you can find it (and your stomach can handle it), that's a great option.

If the new shift didn't work for you, probably wouldn't bother with forskolin as thats one of the main ingredients.

My gf has used DS lean xtreme and absolutely loved it. appetite control, cortisol control, etc. Not cheap, but comprehensive.

Not technically a fat burner, but Magnitropin did lean me out when I ran it as well.

Thanks brother ;)
 
Whacked

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I'm obviously a rep, but from a non stim standpoint, you could look at:

BRITE and LipoMorph (though both are somewhat in the same category of Shift as far as browning white fat is concerned, so you may not enjoy those as much; though BRITE has seasamol that acts on a more immediate level).

Epitome, Leptigen Basic and Metabolic Rebirth work for different bodyfat ranges in regards to leptin levels.

Ablierate (AMMO - pill, Absolutely or Advanced - topical) help from a cortisol control standpoint

Eviscerate isn't stim free, but as a topical, it isn't something you'll have hit your system and "feel" as you would orally.

TTA, as mentioned already, is a good one

High dosed garcinia cambogia can be helpful

Raspberry ketones and green coffee bean extract to a lesser extent, but still useful

If you can still find it, DCP 2.0 or OG HEAT Stack would both fit the bill.

Nice. Thx Man
 
Woody

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what about olive leaf extract?
From the PES subsection


This is meant to be a brief summary of the effects of olive leaf extracts. I have written about this topic in the past so not all of the material is brand new. If you have any detailed questions, feel free to ask.

Olive leaf



History

Olive Leaf extracts are all the rage in supplements now, and for good reason. Olive leaves have been used in the human diet as a food and as well as in traditional remedies in Mediterranean countries for hundreds of years. Olive leaf has been found to contain multiple antioxidants that have promising pro-health benefits (1). All parts of the olive tree have been known and used for the nutritious and medicinal properties (2).

Effects

Olive leaf extracts contain many different phenols. Oleuropein is a phenylethanoid present in Olive Leaf extract that possesses powerful antioxidant properties. Another interesting component of olive leaf extract is Hydroxytyrosol, but that is potentially the focus of another article so I won’t elaborate much on it here.

There is no clear consensus as of now whether Olive Leaf extracts truly lower blood pressure as studies tend to differ in their results. Olive leaf extracts have been shown to improve insulin sensitivity in humans. Oleuropein has also been shown to potentially aid in fat loss by increasing thermogenin in brown adipose tissue (3-6).

A recent study has examined human absorption of oleuropein in humans, and has found that Olive Leaf extracts effectively deliver oleuropein metabolites to plasma in humans (7). Oleuropein is an in vitro PPAR γ inhibitor in adipocytes but the dose required for this in humans would be rather large (8). A very curious study in rats shows that oleuropein increased norepinephrine and testosterone levels, decreased corticosterone levels, and increased nitrogen balance (9).

Another interesting property of oleuropein is that it has been found to increase thyroid activity in rats (10).



As you can note, the decrease in TSH (which means an increase in thyroid activity) is statistically significant. At the higher doses, the increase in T3 was statistically significant, but the increase in T4 was not statistically significant. Individuals with any history of thyroid disease should not supplement with olive leaf extracts.

Two studies showed no weight loss from subjects supplementing with olive leaf extract, but these studies did not specify the oleuropein or hydroxytyrosol content. It is possible they did not observe significant weight loss since they did not use a specialized extract for either of these two compounds (11-12).

Toxicity

In one study, rats given a dose of 60 mg/kg saw no toxicity (13). This is equivalent to approximately 1,000 mg for a 100 kg human (13). In one human clinical trial doses as high as 1000 mg per day were used on adults between 18 and 60 years of age with no adverse effects (14).

Summary

Olive leaf extracts have a host of benefits to them, including increasing insulin sensitivity, increasing thyroid activity, antioxidant benefits, and many more. Olive leaf phenols are currently the subject of investigation for Alzheimer’s disease (15).

References

1. Sedef N El, Sibel Karakaya. (2009). Olive tree (Olea europaea) leaves: potential beneficial effects on human health. Nutrition Reviews. Volume 67, Issue 11, pages 632–638.

2. Soni MG, Burdock GA, Christian MS, Bitler CM, Crea R. (2006). Safety assessment of aqueous olive pulp extract as an antioxidant or antimicrobial agent in foods. Food Chem Toxicol. 44:903–915.

3. De Bock, M.; Derraik, J. G. B.; Brennan, C. M.; Biggs, J. B.; Morgan, P. E.; Hodgkinson, S. C.; Hofman, P. L.; Cutfield, W. S. (2013). "Olive (Olea europaea L.) Leaf Polyphenols Improve Insulin Sensitivity in Middle-Aged Overweight Men: A Randomized, Placebo-Controlled, Crossover Trial". In Nerurkar, Pratibha V. PLoS ONE 8 (3): e57622.

4. Sudjana, Aurelia N.; D’Orazio, Carla; Ryan, Vanessa; Rasool, Nooshin; Ng, Justin; Islam, Nabilah; Riley, Thomas V.; Hammer, Katherine A. (2009). "Antimicrobial activity of commercial Olea europaea (olive) leaf extract". International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents 33 (5): 461–3. doi:10.1016/j.ijantimicag.2008.10.026. PMID 19135874.

5. Oi-Kano, Yuriko; Kawada, Teruo; Watanabe, Tatsuo; Koyama, Fumihiro; Watanabe, Kenichi; Senbongi, Reijirou; Iwai, Kazuo (2008). "Oleuropein, a Phenolic Compound in Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Increases Uncoupling Protein 1 Content in Brown Adipose Tissue and Enhances Noradrenaline and Adrenaline Secretions in Rats". Journal of Nutritional Science and Vitaminology 54 (5): 363–70.

6. Haris Omar, Syed (2010). "Oleuropein in Olive and its Pharmacological Effects". Scientia Pharmaceutica 78 (2): 133–54. doi:10.3797/scipharm.0912-18.

7. de Bock M, Thorstensen EB, Derraik JG, Henderson HV, Hofman PL, Cutfield WS (2013) Human absorption and metabolism of oleuropein and hydroxytyrosol ingested as olive (Olea europaea L.) leaf extract. Mol Nutr Food Res.

8. Svobodova, M., Andreadou, I., Skaltsounis, A.-L., Kopecky, J., & Flachs, P. (2014). Oleuropein as an inhibitor of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma. Genes & nutrition, 9(1), 376.

9. Oi-Kano, Y., Kawada, T., Watanabe, T., Koyama, F., Watanabe, K., Senbongi, R., & Iwai, K. (2013). Oleuropein supplementation increases urinary noradrenaline and testicular testosterone levels and decreases plasma corticosterone level in rats fed high-protein diet. Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry, 24(5), 887-893.
10. Al-Qarawi, A., Al-Damegh, M. a, & ElMougy, S. a. (2002). Effect of freeze dried extract of Olea europaea on the pituitary-thyroid axis in rats. Phytotherapy research : PTR, 16(3), 286-7.

11. Gimeno, E., de la Torre-Carbot, K., Lamuela-Raventos, R. et al. (2007). Changes in the phenolic content of low density lipoprotein after olive oil consumption in men. A randomized crossover controlled trial. Br J Nutr. 98(6):1243-50.

12. Castaner, O., Covas, M., Khymenets, O. et al. (2012). Protection of LDL from oxidation by olive oil polyphenols is associated with a downregulation of CD40-ligand expression and its downstream products in vivo in humans. Am J Clin Nut. 95(5):1238-44.

13. L.I. Somova et al. (2003). Antihypertensive, antiatherosclerotic and antioxidant activity of triterpenoids isolated from Olea europaea, subspecies africana leaves. Journal of Ethnopharmacology Volume 84, Issues 2–3, Pages 299–305.

14. Tania Perrinjaquet-Moccetti et al. (2008). Food Supplementation with an Olive (Olea europaeaL.) Leaf Extract Reduces Blood Pressure in Borderline Hypertensive Monozygotic Twins. Phytother. Res. 22, 1239–1242.

15. Rigacci, S. (2015). Olive Oil Phenols as Promising Multi-targeting Agents Against Alzheimer's Disease. Adv Exp Med Biol. 863:1-20.
 
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kpeaceoutbye

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What's the deal with TTA? Maybe I'm wrong, but was this an ingredient that used to be very popular but faded away? I never hear about it, but every once in a while it pops up. Is it as effective as ingredients like Forskolin/Yohimbine in terms of return on investment?
 
booneman77

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What's the deal with TTA? Maybe I'm wrong, but was this an ingredient that used to be very popular but faded away? I never hear about it, but every once in a while it pops up. Is it as effective as ingredients like Forskolin/Yohimbine in terms of return on investment?
I've seen very similar results from tta to forskolin. Yohimbine isn't really similar tho.
 
kbayne

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What's the deal with TTA? Maybe I'm wrong, but was this an ingredient that used to be very popular but faded away? I never hear about it, but every once in a while it pops up. Is it as effective as ingredients like Forskolin/Yohimbine in terms of return on investment?
Big pharma.

TTA is a great non-stim option but can give some horrible cramps. I know you can still find it though.
 
warbird01

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Nothing ever beats EC.
 
Jiigzz

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Evomuse makes some awesome topicals for fat loss. Have you ever used these Whacked?
 
Whacked

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Evomuse makes some awesome topicals for fat loss. Have you ever used these Whacked?
Sup Jiigzz

I tried a few Eviscerate a couple of years ago. I cannot recall who makes it and although it seems to be popular amongst many; I never noticed much beyond the local scorching effect :)
 
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Sup Jiigzz

Yes, years ago. They seem to be popular amongst many but I never noticed much beyond the local scorching effect :)
Absolutely Abliderated seems to be the most useful for the general population, while Eviscerate seems to be helpful to get rid of stubborn fat in the extremely lean.
 
Jiigzz

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Sup Jiigzz

I tried a few Eviscerate a couple of years ago. I cannot recall who makes it and although it seems to be popular amongst many; I never noticed much beyond the local scorching effect :)
Look into lipomorph as another alternative :D
 
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kpeaceoutbye

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Forskolin-95+
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Epitome (haven't used, but has great feedback for the most part)
So to keep things simple and backed by science (except I think Forskolin and Yohimbine are better backed by science for fat loss than TTA), how does this look for an 8 week mini cut where 10-12 pounds will be lost?
Forskolin @ 100mg/day
Yohimbine @ .2mg/kg per day
TTA @ 1g per day
...possibly Norcodrene as well and if that is the case then my bulk Y intake would be lowered
 
booneman77

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So to keep things simple and backed by science (except I think Forskolin and Yohimbine are better backed by science for fat loss than TTA), how does this look for an 8 week mini cut where 10-12 pounds will be lost?
Forskolin @ 100mg/day
Yohimbine @ .2mg/kg per day
TTA @ 1g per day
...possibly Norcodrene as well and if that is the case then my bulk Y intake would be lowered
thats a pretty mean cycle... if you cant get lean on that, its diet.
 
kbayne

kbayne

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So to keep things simple and backed by science (except I think Forskolin and Yohimbine are better backed by science for fat loss than TTA), how does this look for an 8 week mini cut where 10-12 pounds will be lost?
Forskolin @ 100mg/day
Yohimbine @ .2mg/kg per day
TTA @ 1g per day
...possibly Norcodrene as well and if that is the case then my bulk Y intake would be lowered
Very solid and you will enjoy it
 
Whacked

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Will someone be kind enough to post the MOA of TTA for my old lazy AZZ? Thanks in advance :)
 
bolt10

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Will someone be kind enough to post the MOA of TTA for my old lazy AZZ? Thanks in advance :)
It is a PPAR Agonist and not too many things work via that MOA that are available. Solid ingredient IMO (just harder and harder to find nowadays).
 
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kpeaceoutbye

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It is a PPAR Agonist and not too many things work via that MOA that are available. Solid ingredient IMO (just harder and harder to find nowadays).
How hard though? I just saw Amazon carrying at least 20 SNS TTA-500 bottles lol
 
bolt10

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How hard though? I just saw Amazon carrying at least 20 SNS TTA-500 bottles lol
There was a 1 batch run of SNS TTA this past spring... So stock will be dwindling as time passes...
This. It kind of comes and goes and is only available through SNS, and not at a ton of places.
 
kboxer7

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Synapsin

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I'm interested in any thoughts anyone has regarding TTA reducing the efficiency of the heart and on the impaired mitochondrial capacity in the heart...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19398469/

I would presume this would be temporary, but I haven't had a chance to dig into this much.

Suppversity also mentioned it in passing here:

http://suppversity.blogspot.nl/2011/03/old-dog-learns-new-tricks-fatloss-fat.html?m=1
I posted about this a few years ago. A bit short of time ATM but I'm sure you can find it if you search through my posts.
 
kboxer7

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I posted about this a few years ago. A bit short of time ATM but I'm sure you can find it if you search through my posts.
Thanks bud. I'll dig back in the archives : )
 
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If you have not checked out thermoxyn.. def worth a look. Very complex stimulant based fat burner.


BRITE and Lipomorph are on my list to try as well.


Mike
 
kboxer7

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If you have not checked out thermoxyn.. def worth a look. Very complex stimulant based fat burner.


BRITE and Lipomorph are on my list to try as well.


Mike
Have you used thermoxyn yet?
 
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I posted about this a few years ago. A bit short of time ATM but I'm sure you can find it if you search through my posts.
Ive had a quick search but cant find anything....off the top of your head, was there much of concern here?
 
kboxer7

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Ive had a quick search but cant find anything....off the top of your head, was there much of concern here?
I couldn't find that post either after reading thru quite a few pages. I'm sure it's there somewhere.

From the Suppversity link, it seems TTA is cardio protective in sick/diabetic rats, but in healthy ones it had negative effects on the heart.

I don't have the full text of the study so I don't want to jump to any conclusions though.

I'm interested in running TTA soon.
 
Synapsin

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Ive had a quick search but cant find anything....off the top of your head, was there much of concern here?
Darn, it was a good post. Basically if you run it for a short time, <60 days, and at a reasonable dose (1-2 grams), you should be fine. Not much concern unless you have a family of heart disease. The one thing I always tell people is if they are unsure about something, don't take the risk.
 
cobri66

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HiTech is coming out with Ionamin..from what I'm reading..a randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study..Ionamin users lost 208% more weight and 385% more fat than placebo group and 167% more weight than group that was taking 300mg. caffeine..Ionamin users also saw 16.6% increase in resting energy expenditure over first 3 hours with increase of 14.5% over 6 hours..also shown to elevate metabolism over 22% in 45 minutes..was 66% stronger than 30mg ephedrine and 152% stronger than 10mg Ephedrine and 871% stronger than the placebo at its highest point.....so I'm kinda wanting to try it
 
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