The beef protein fad

[Synapsin]

The beef protein fad

I am sure by now we have all seen proteins now advertising that they are a better alternative to milk and whey based proteins. Beef protein is one of those newer fad proteins advertising that it is better for you without any of the digestive issues some people associate with whey. An important question, however, is: what is beef protein?

We all like to romanticize with the idea that beef protein is filet mignon grinded into powder, but it is simply not. The price of beef is exuberant, making this impossible. A quick search on the internet shows that the top 5 selling beef protein products contain the following ingredients: Hydrolyzed beef protein isolate, Hydrolyzed gelatin. Now these sound fancy, but what exactly are they? Hydrolyzed Beef Protein Isolate is also known as Collagen. Collagen is not a complete protein source, and is high in glycine, proline, arginine, and hydroxyproline. Collagen is a support tissue protein that has no use in products for athletes. All these labels are just fancy words for what beef protein really is: collagen, left over scraps, and cow plasma (a component of blood).

Below is an amino acid breakdown of an unnamed whey protein product vs. an unnamed beef protein product vs. gelatin:

The first thing you should notice is the glaring similarities between beef protein isolate and gelatin. They are nearly identical, so for the purposes of comparisons between whey and the other two, we will simply compare whey vs. beef protein.

Notice that there are some massive differences. The whey product has much more of the essential amino acids and BCAAs (34.96 grams in whey vs. 19.4 grams in beef protein isolate per 100 g). The amount of essential amino acids and BCAAs are what we really want to consider when we look at different sources of protein as athletes when it comes to determining what is best for our lifestyles. These are the amino acids that aid in recovery, muscle protein synthesis, etc.

Another massive difference is the amount of glycine in beef protein (beef protein isolate contains 20.1 grams of glycine, more than 14 times the amount of glycine in whey protein). Glycine is a filler amino acid added into products to cheapen the cost of the product. Glycine comes up on lab tests that test for protein content based on nitrogen content as protein, which allows companies to pad the amount of protein in their product by stuffing them with glycine. Think of the companies that always have buy 1 get 1s on their proteins, and you will notice glycine is almost always added into their protein matrix. PES Select has third party independent testing by laboratories showing that it is filler free and that its protein content is not padded by the use of fillers like glycine.

If that doesn’t have you sold, this should. This is a comparison of the various protein sources we have been discussing using the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS). The PDCAAS is a method utilized by the FDA and the World Health Organization that measures the quality of protein based on the amino acid requirements of humans and their ability to digest these protein sources (2). A value of 1.00 is the highest possible PDCAAS score.

As previously discussed, most of beef proteins contain mainly collagen and gelatin, thus they have a PDCAAS of zero. These products are not beneficial for athletes. On the other hand, research shows that blends are the most optimal sources of protein for athletes. Blends of milk protein isolate and whey protein, both protein sources that have a PDCAAS of 1.00, the highest possible score. These proteins will aid in recovery, increase the rates of muscle protein synthesis, etc. The next time you are purchasing a protein product, keep all these points in mind, and as always, Select the best!

References:

1. EASTOE, J. E. (1955). The amino acid composition of mammalian collagen and gelatin. The Biochemical journal, 61(4), 589-600.

2. Recent developments in protein quality evaluation

3. Schaafsma, G. (2000). The protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score. The Journal of nutrition, 130(7), 1865S-7S.

4. http://cancersupplementcenter.com/PDCAAS-Paper-01-28-08.pdf

 

[squirtguns89]

well, im certainly glad i never went that route. nice reference for people considering such. thanks for the nice pdcaas reference as well.

 

[kbayne]

Very nice collection of data and information here Synapsin!

Should we tell Kai about this?

 

[Athletix]

Great info!

 

[Aleksandar37]

And Synapsin drops yet another knowledge bomb. Head cheese < Select

 

[machinehead]

When I was doing that kind of comparison a while ago, I found that True Nutrition was the only company listing the amino acid content of their beef isolate. It was clear what it most closely resembled.

With that said, for whatever reason, gelatin has been the most effective product for my bad left knee. It is likely not the glycine in it as I am taking that often.

 

[xo0ox]

Would like to try out PES protein but in Sweden PES products are hard to come by.

Right now it optimum Nutrition and Nutriamino for me, do they spike?

 

[USPlabsRep]

The beef protein fad

I am sure by now we have all seen proteins now advertising that they are a better alternative to milk and whey based proteins. Beef protein is one of those newer fad proteins advertising that it is better for you without any of the digestive issues some people associate with whey. An important question, however, is: what is beef protein?

We all like to romanticize with the idea that beef protein is filet mignon grinded into powder, but it is simply not. The price of beef is exuberant, making this impossible. A quick search on the internet shows that the top 5 selling beef protein products contain the following ingredients: Hydrolyzed beef protein isolate, Hydrolyzed gelatin. Now these sound fancy, but what exactly are they? Hydrolyzed Beef Protein Isolate is also known as Collagen. Collagen is not a complete protein source, and is high in glycine, proline, arginine, and hydroxyproline. Collagen is a support tissue protein that has no use in products for athletes. All these labels are just fancy words for what beef protein really is: collagen, left over scraps, and cow plasma (a component of blood).

Below is an amino acid breakdown of an unnamed whey protein product vs. an unnamed beef protein product vs. gelatin:

The first thing you should notice is the glaring similarities between beef protein isolate and gelatin. They are nearly identical, so for the purposes of comparisons between whey and the other two, we will simply compare whey vs. beef protein.

Notice that there are some massive differences. The whey product has much more of the essential amino acids and BCAAs (34.96 grams in whey vs. 19.4 grams in beef protein isolate per 100 g). The amount of essential amino acids and BCAAs are what we really want to consider when we look at different sources of protein as athletes when it comes to determining what is best for our lifestyles. These are the amino acids that aid in recovery, muscle protein synthesis, etc.

Another massive difference is the amount of glycine in beef protein (beef protein isolate contains 20.1 grams of glycine, more than 14 times the amount of glycine in whey protein). Glycine is a filler amino acid added into products to cheapen the cost of the product. Glycine comes up on lab tests that test for protein content based on nitrogen content as protein, which allows companies to pad the amount of protein in their product by stuffing them with glycine. Think of the companies that always have buy 1 get 1s on their proteins, and you will notice glycine is almost always added into their protein matrix. PES Select has third party independent testing by laboratories showing that it is filler free and that its protein content is not padded by the use of fillers like glycine.

If that doesn’t have you sold, this should. This is a comparison of the various protein sources we have been discussing using the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS). The PDCAAS is a method utilized by the FDA and the World Health Organization that measures the quality of protein based on the amino acid requirements of humans and their ability to digest these protein sources (2). A value of 1.00 is the highest possible PDCAAS score.

As previously discussed, most of beef proteins contain mainly collagen and gelatin, thus they have a PDCAAS of zero. These products are not beneficial for athletes. On the other hand, research shows that blends like PES Select are the most optimal sources of protein for athletes. PES Select is a blend of milk protein isolate and whey protein, both protein sources that have a PDCAAS of 1.00, the highest possible score. These proteins will aid in recovery, increase the rates of muscle protein synthesis, etc. The next time you are purchasing a protein product, keep all these points in mind, and as always, Select the best!

References:

1. EASTOE, J. E. (1955). The amino acid composition of mammalian collagen and gelatin. The Biochemical journal, 61(4), 589-600.

2. Recent developments in protein quality evaluation

3. Schaafsma, G. (2000). The protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score. The Journal of nutrition, 130(7), 1865S-7S.

4. http://cancersupplementcenter.com/PDCAAS-Paper-01-28-08.pdf

MPI is the best source in my opinion (if you had to pick one). you get the the quick release of whey (anabolic) and slow release of Casein (anti catabolic) in one full swoop. it makes sense to add a bit extra WP…..

good write up…I still haven't tried Blondie. Tell Josh to send me some! He gets a little bit of success and forgets about me..

 

[USPlabsRep]

The beef protein fad

I am sure by now we have all seen proteins now advertising that they are a better alternative to milk and whey based proteins. Beef protein is one of those newer fad proteins advertising that it is better for you without any of the digestive issues some people associate with whey. An important question, however, is: what is beef protein?

We all like to romanticize with the idea that beef protein is filet mignon grinded into powder, but it is simply not. The price of beef is exuberant, making this impossible. A quick search on the internet shows that the top 5 selling beef protein products contain the following ingredients: Hydrolyzed beef protein isolate, Hydrolyzed gelatin. Now these sound fancy, but what exactly are they? Hydrolyzed Beef Protein Isolate is also known as Collagen. Collagen is not a complete protein source, and is high in glycine, proline, arginine, and hydroxyproline. Collagen is a support tissue protein that has no use in products for athletes. All these labels are just fancy words for what beef protein really is: collagen, left over scraps, and cow plasma (a component of blood).

Below is an amino acid breakdown of an unnamed whey protein product vs. an unnamed beef protein product vs. gelatin:

The first thing you should notice is the glaring similarities between beef protein isolate and gelatin. They are nearly identical, so for the purposes of comparisons between whey and the other two, we will simply compare whey vs. beef protein.

Notice that there are some massive differences. The whey product has much more of the essential amino acids and BCAAs (34.96 grams in whey vs. 19.4 grams in beef protein isolate per 100 g). The amount of essential amino acids and BCAAs are what we really want to consider when we look at different sources of protein as athletes when it comes to determining what is best for our lifestyles. These are the amino acids that aid in recovery, muscle protein synthesis, etc.

Another massive difference is the amount of glycine in beef protein (beef protein isolate contains 20.1 grams of glycine, more than 14 times the amount of glycine in whey protein). Glycine is a filler amino acid added into products to cheapen the cost of the product. Glycine comes up on lab tests that test for protein content based on nitrogen content as protein, which allows companies to pad the amount of protein in their product by stuffing them with glycine. Think of the companies that always have buy 1 get 1s on their proteins, and you will notice glycine is almost always added into their protein matrix. PES Select has third party independent testing by laboratories showing that it is filler free and that its protein content is not padded by the use of fillers like glycine.

If that doesn’t have you sold, this should. This is a comparison of the various protein sources we have been discussing using the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS). The PDCAAS is a method utilized by the FDA and the World Health Organization that measures the quality of protein based on the amino acid requirements of humans and their ability to digest these protein sources (2). A value of 1.00 is the highest possible PDCAAS score.

As previously discussed, most of beef proteins contain mainly collagen and gelatin, thus they have a PDCAAS of zero. These products are not beneficial for athletes. On the other hand, research shows that blends like PES Select are the most optimal sources of protein for athletes. PES Select is a blend of milk protein isolate and whey protein, both protein sources that have a PDCAAS of 1.00, the highest possible score. These proteins will aid in recovery, increase the rates of muscle protein synthesis, etc. The next time you are purchasing a protein product, keep all these points in mind, and as always, Select the best!

References:

1. EASTOE, J. E. (1955). The amino acid composition of mammalian collagen and gelatin. The Biochemical journal, 61(4), 589-600.

2. Recent developments in protein quality evaluation

3. Schaafsma, G. (2000). The protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score. The Journal of nutrition, 130(7), 1865S-7S.

4. http://cancersupplementcenter.com/PDCAAS-Paper-01-28-08.pdf

Plus everyone knows that "beef" protein is a straight up scam money grab product that screws the consumer. Pea protein is better...

 

[Synapsin]

When I was doing that kind of comparison a while ago, I found that True Nutrition was the only company listing the amino acid content of their beef isolate. It was clear what it most closely resembled.

With that said, for whatever reason, gelatin has been the most effective product for my bad left knee. It is likely not the glycine in it as I am taking that often.

Some people find collagen helps for that so it doesn't surprise me. I believe animal flex has shark collagen in it for that reason. Most companies selling beef protein hide their AA panel for that very reasoning.

Would like to try out PES protein but in Sweden PES products are hard to come by.

Right now it optimum Nutrition and Nutriamino for me, do they spike?

I do not know the other brand, but I believe ON does not spike.

MPI is the best source in my opinion (if you had to pick one). you get the the quick release of whey (anabolic) and slow release of Casein (anti catabolic) in one full swoop. it makes sense to add a bit extra WP…..

good write up…I still haven't tried Blondie. Tell Josh to send me some! He gets a little bit of success and forgets about me..

Thank you. Indeed, that's why I'm a fan of blends and always have been (I used to buy bulk casein and whey and mix them together). If you want some samples of blondie, PM your info.

Plus everyone knows that "beef" protein is a straight up scam money grab product that screws the consumer. Pea protein is better...

You'd be surprised; I see quite a few people asking about it on Internet forums and even in the gym.

 

[T-Bone]

 

[LeanEngineer]

I wasnt my money once with carnivor beef isolate and will never do it again. haha. I'm a big pes select fan now

 

[JRob23]

I'm glad you had brought this up Synapsin. You've certainly got my interest.



While if I were typing this years ago, I would certainly agree with the above, but in this day now...the advancements in beef protein technologies have reached far beyond this.

What you're seeing isn't a fad, but more of an evolution in animal protein science.

As the world's largest manufacturer of pharmaceutical grade serums, plasmas and beef protein, we've now taken this once berated category and have completely re-written it. While people will continue to rebel the thought of change, this category will continue to grow (recent consecutive years reaching a rate of 150%). Maybe this will be help tell the story as people see more and more companies investing into this material. With all of the "shadiness" that can go on in this industry, would you be willing to bet that each company coming out with a Beef Protein Isolate product is rolling the dice and investing in "collagen"?

Yes, there is "natural occurring" collagen in Beef Protein Isolate, just as there is in that steak you ate the other night

In perspective, when whey had first started out, you were dealing with an incredibly low concentrate touted as the best thing ever created. The public laughed and balked at the idea that drinking the permeate, or waste stream of cheese, mixed up with water would be beneficial to them.

Look at where whey is now positioned! But what about the Beef?

We have essentially taken this untouched area and have gone far past making the necessary improvements to take beef protein to the point it now is...and we're just getting started. As the only USDA recognized source of Beef Protein Isolate, collagen or gelatin products being labeled as Beef Protein Isolate, will be no more.

On and end note, for the record...no hides, hooves, tails, ears and any additional throw away, non beneficial parts you can think of are being used in the production of our Beef Protein Isolate.

 

[mase1]

Send me a tub and I will test for a month and let you know how it compares to whey in recovery and body composition.

 

[kbayne]

I'll stick with MPI & WPC-80

 

[JRob23]

Send me a tub and I will test for a month and let you know how it compares to whey in recovery and body composition.

I'm not sure you would enjoy drinking raw beef protein isolate too much University Studies will be going public soon though. Stay tuned.

 

[dave39]

This thread has really got me confused... Whey protein kills my stomach and bloats me so I am currently utilizing a beef protein because it is easier to digest for me and doesn't give me the uncomfortable bloat either. I want to believe that the beef protein I have purchased is worth the $1.20 CAD per serving. This is only day 4 for me and the beef protein.

I would love to hear from some people who have experience with both whey and beef protein powders. How did they compare as far as "results" go???

 

[Synapsin]

I'm glad you had brought this up Synapsin. You've certainly got my interest.

As the Sales Manager for Essentia Metabolic Proteins, and also playing a large role in new business development and R&D, I think I'll be able to shed some truth on this topic if I may.

While if I were typing this years ago, I would certainly agree with the above, but in this day now...the advancements in beef protein technologies have reached far beyond this.

What you're seeing isn't a fad, but more of an evolution in animal protein science.

As the world's largest manufacturer of pharmaceutical grade serums, plasmas and beef protein, we've now taken this once berated category and have completely re-written it. While people will continue to rebel the thought of change, this category will continue to grow (recent consecutive years reaching a rate of 150%). Maybe this will be help tell the story as people see more and more companies investing into this material. With all of the "shadiness" that can go on in this industry, would you be willing to bet that each company coming out with a Beef Protein Isolate™ product is rolling the dice and investing in "collagen"?

Yes, there is "natural occurring" collagen in Beef Protein Isolate™, just as there is in that steak you ate the other night

In perspective, when whey had first started out, you were dealing with an incredibly low concentrate touted as the best thing ever created. The public laughed and balked at the idea that drinking the permeate, or waste stream of cheese, mixed up with water would be beneficial to them.

Look at where whey is now positioned! But what about the Beef?

We have essentially taken this untouched area and have gone far past making the necessary improvements to take beef protein to the point it now is...and we're just getting started. As the only USDA recognized source of Beef Protein Isolate™, collagen or gelatin products being labeled as Beef Protein Isolate, will be no more.

On and end note, for the record...no hides, hooves, tails, ears and any additional throw away, non beneficial parts you can think of are being used in the production of our Beef Protein Isolate™.

Nice marketing speech but unfortunately I do not really buy into this. Your steak comment is a red herring and is irrelevant. Steak has creatine as well, so what? Post an independently verified result of the AA break down of your product. We all know the price of beef protein would be exuberant if it wasn't what I said it was.

 

[yiaosen]

...
We have essentially taken this untouched area and have gone far past making the necessary improvements to take beef protein to the point it now is...and we're just getting started.

you do realize that, instead of writing half an essay on how you think your beef ist the bestest newest freshest most beefiest beef isolate without actually saying anything about it (apart from that you think it is the bestest), you could have taken this opportunity to tell us what it is that you are using in your protein that makes it superior to collagen/gelatin and given an amino acid breakdown? because if you don't do that we will all realize that you have nothing worthwhile to say with a hint of bull****senses that are tingling all over.

 

[jarrellt67]

Great write-up. Thank you for posting it. I'm embarrassed to admit that I once used beef protein isolate until I started digging into it a bit more online. This article needs to be re-posted in every forum so others can see through the marketing bull**** for this stuff.

 

[alexoc949]

Put beef protein powder on blast

 

[JRob23]

Nice marketing speech but unfortunately I do not really buy into this. Your steak comment is a red herring and is irrelevant. Steak has creatine as well, so what? Post an independently verified result of the AA break down of your product. We all know the price of beef protein would be exuberant if it wasn't what I said it was.

I'm not sure why you're so mad. My response wasn't in a way to undermine your post or with intentions of a "marketing speech" lol Instead, it was to help educate those reading this on the truth of the matter and shed some light to where Beef Protein Isolate has grown to. That's all

I'm not making anything up, nor have anything to hide. I'm not here to debate, or share sensitive material with a public forum. Nor am I here to say Beef Protein Isolate is better than WPI. There's plenty of shelf space for everyone. If you or anyone else doesn't want to listen to what I have to say or believe what I say, that's completely fine. If people want to just skim the thread and add some foul mouth nonsense to what I'm trying to make a mature and civil topic, that's completely fine too. I'm not going back and forth, but I do appreciate you posting this as it had allowed me to share some accurate information in post lucky #13 - what you and others decide to do with or say about that information is out of my control.

Stay tuned for published University Human Studies and other resourceful information which will make for some good updated references. Although I'm sure this too will also be refuted by many

 

[Rushie]

Nice marketing speech but unfortunately I do not really buy into this.

Neither do I. But though your OP contained great info, it was also a marketing speech for Select. Can you PES guys do anything without peddling your products in the same breath? It's getting bloody annoying.

 

[Synapsin]

I'm not sure why you're so mad. My response wasn't in a way to undermine your post or with intentions of a "marketing speech" lol Instead, it was to help educate those reading this on the truth of the matter and shed some light to where Beef Protein Isolate has grown to. That's all

I'm not making anything up, nor have anything to hide. I'm not here to debate, or share sensitive material with a public forum. Nor am I here to say Beef Protein Isolate is better than WPI. There's plenty of shelf space for everyone. If you or anyone else doesn't want to listen to what I have to say or believe what I say, that's completely fine. If people want to just skim the thread and add some foul mouth nonsense to what I'm trying to make a mature and civil topic, that's completely fine too. I'm not going back and forth, but I do appreciate you posting this as it had allowed me to share some accurate information in post lucky #13 - what you and others decide to do with or say about that information is out of my control.

Stay tuned for published University Human Studies and other resourceful information which will make for some good updated references. Although I'm sure this too will also be refuted by many

I am not mad at all, not sure what gives you the impression that I am. I don't see how you could claim your beef protein is better but at the same time you can't share the AA break down. Makes no sense to me, and makes it seem like you're just hiding something eh?

Neither do I. But though your OP contained great info, it was also a marketing speech for Select. Can you PES guys do anything without peddling your products in the same breath? It's getting bloody annoying.

Shrug, I find most people generally do not have an issue with this given that its not the usual "hey this is the best" marketing without ever discussing why. It would make no sense to not discuss PES products if the write up is relevant to a product for a company I work for (not to mention it was maybe 20% marketing content). For example, if I were on a car forum discussing a car model, it wouldn't make sense if I didn't try to talk Ford up if I worked for Ford. If people want me to do write ups for non-PES related stuff, they can PM me or post here for different topics I can write on.

 

[Woody]

Neither do I. But though your OP contained great info, it was also a marketing speech for Select. Can you PES guys do anything without peddling your products in the same breath? It's getting bloody annoying.

There was only 3 out of like 100 sentences with PES marketing in them. Thats three percent.

 

[Nyrin]

Stay tuned for published University Human Studies and other resourceful information which will make for some good updated references. Although I'm sure this too will also be refuted by many

Why do we need human studies, complete with all the unavoidable confounds, to answer basic questions like AA composition and PDCAAS?

The fundamental issue that Synapsin's OP raises is that BPI extraction typically creates a collagen-like product with unfavorable composition and poor bioavailability. These observable properties are gloriously simple in a world of often complicated science -- they're easily quantifiable, readily reproducible, and not subject to outside influences (cf. carbohydrate measurements like GI that become meaningless in varied meals). The mechanisms and characteristics that make collagen (and standard BPI) a poor choice for myogenesis are well-understood and nothing's going to "get around" those issues except improvements in those characteristics.

So until we can see how superior beef-based products fix the glaringly evident issues with amino acid composition and bioavailability, it's a non-starter to examine complicated human studies with dozens or hundreds of confounds involved. If you run a study in an uncontrolled enough environment enough times, you'll eventually be able to say that anything works well -- I believe we have plenty of studies showing maltodextrin to perform fabulously as a muscle builder thanks to poorly executed study controls.

I have no doubt that improvements in technology and process can and likely will exist to create beef-based products with great characteristics. I just won't believe that they're here until I see the (fortunately easy to observe) evidence proving it.

 

[ma70]

Neither do I. But though your OP contained great info, it was also a marketing speech for Select. Can you PES guys do anything without peddling your products in the same breath? It's getting bloody annoying.

It's a marketing speech for just about everything that isn't Beef Protein Isolate, from what I could tell.

 

[kbayne]

Neither do I. But though your OP contained great info, it was also a marketing speech for Select. Can you PES guys do anything without peddling your products in the same breath? It's getting bloody annoying.

Go read another creatine thread

 

[The_Old_Guy]

But what if you sprinkle Bio-Grow on your steak? Or the cows ate Bio-Grow?

 

[johnnyp]

This thread has really got me confused... Whey protein kills my stomach and bloats me so I am currently utilizing a beef protein because it is easier to digest for me and doesn't give me the uncomfortable bloat either. I want to believe that the beef protein I have purchased is worth the $1.20 CAD per serving. This is only day 4 for me and the beef protein.

I would love to hear from some people who have experience with both whey and beef protein powders. How did they compare as far as "results" go???

Unless protein powder is a major component of one's diet it would be hard to determine how it was affecting one's "results." It's just a fact that beef protein powders are inferior to whey or rice/pea based powders based on amino acid profile.

 

[bdcc]

Would like to try out PES protein but in Sweden PES products are hard to come by.

Right now it optimum Nutrition and Nutriamino for me, do they spike?

Send me an email, [email protected].

 

[bdcc]

Neither do I. But though your OP contained great info, it was also a marketing speech for Select. Can you PES guys do anything without peddling your products in the same breath? It's getting bloody annoying.

It's a marketing speech for just about everything that isn't Beef Protein Isolate, from what I could tell.

There was only 3 out of like 100 sentences with PES marketing in them. Thats three percent.

As a company, we have probably provided more free information on this forum than almost anyone else.

Coop's corner posts cover ingredients we use as well as some ingredients we don't. Whatever he publishes people point the finger and say it is marketing.

Of course, his knowledge correlates with what we put in products, he is part of the R&D department so it would be worrying if it didn't lol.

For example, he loves forskolin and the data on it is positive so of course we used it. If he writes a positive review on something it is likely an ingredient we are using, going to use or have looked at using. He isn't going to say "this ingredient is incredible but we aren't going to use it" lol.

Sure, sometimes we mention PES products but we do not always. This is the supplement section of a forum so it shouldn't really come as a surprise that we want to discuss supplement science.

If our products fit that supplement science, we are allowed to discuss them. This write up isn't specific to Select and actually could be used by many, many other companies so to imply it is just to plug our product doesn't make sense because we are actually promoting a product (whey rather than beef) that a huge number of companies use.

tl;dr we get criticised either way, even if our science posts don't talk about PES products at all. This is a supplement section. I think it is better that we are educating people than just using sales pitches.

 

[ma70]

tl;dr we get criticised either way, even if our science posts don't talk about PES products at all. This is a supplement section. I think it is better that we are educating people than just using sales pitches.

And this is the part as to why I don't mind the PES plugs. It seems like they spend a lot of time creating these posts. It's better than them posting about their stuff because people say "it's good stuff".

 

[bdcc]

And this is the part as to why I don't mind the PES plugs. It seems like they spend a lot of time creating these posts. It's better than them posting about their stuff because people say "it's good stuff".

Thank you. I agree.

Unfortunately I can't remember the last time we posted a long educational thread that didn't have people insulting our intentions.

If we discuss an ingredient we think has solid data and we use it we get criticised.
If we discuss an ingredient we don't like we get criticised for talking negatively about other products.

Never mind, I am glad some people enjoy them.

 

[Woody]

Thank you. I agree.

Unfortunately I can't remember the last time we posted a long educational thread that didn't have people insulting our intentions.

If we discuss an ingredient we think has solid data and we use it we get criticised.
If we discuss an ingredient we don't like we get criticised for talking negatively about other products.

Never mind, I am glad some people enjoy them.

 

[Admin]

Unfortunately I can't remember the last time we posted a long educational thread that didn't have people insulting our intentions.

Coops Corners, but they rarely got insulted here...just someplace else. :lol:

 

[Synapsin]

As long as most people are okay with it, I will never have an issue helping educate the forum population