Na-R-ALA powder?

[Johnston]

I had some from Nutraplanet that I bought ages ago, but they don't seem to sell it any more. Can you buy it in the powder form anywhere these days, or only caps?

Failing that, are SAN the best producer of the caps? Not many out there producing stabilized Na-R-ALA that I can see, just loads of regular ALA.

 

[Nyrin]

I just picked up some "stabilized RALA" from Vitacost which appears to be decent; per 100mg capsule:

Sodium (from R-Alpha Lipoic Acid) 25 mg 1%
R-Lipoic Acid Sodium
(standardized to 80% active R-Lipoic Acid [equivalent to 100 mg of R-Lipoic Acid Sodium 70% ingredient] (70 mg) 87.5 mg *

What's everyone's favorite dosing scheme? Pre-meals, pre-bed standard fare?

 

[Johnston]

I've always taken pre-meal myself. Never tried before bed, not sure what the efficacy of that is.

 

[AntM1564]

Pre bed makes me sleep like a baby. Check out Genova I believe it is.

 

[The Solution]

I've always taken pre-meal myself. Never tried before bed, not sure what the efficacy of that is.

kbayne will school you up on this, he knows his GDA's.
It could help GH release pre-bed, also insulin sensitivity, nutrient uptake, and antioxidant potential (correct me if wrong)

 

[Johnston]

Pre bed makes me sleep like a baby. Check out Genova I believe it is.

GeroNova... yes, they are the most reputable makers of it as far as I know, and the one you want to get. I'm in the UK though and it seems hard to come by here.

Interesting, I'd only really heard of it being used before meals. So would pre-bed be in addition to that?">...It could help GH release pre-bed, also insulin sensitivity, nutrient uptake, and antioxidant potential (correct me if wrong)[/QUOTE]

Interesting, I'd only really heard of it being used before meals. So would pre-bed be in addition to that?

 

[kbayne]

Geronova for sure. NP used to sell it in bulk powder which was legit! Other than NP Na-R-ALA, I would go with SAN, Doctors Best, or Jarrow.

300-600mg per day is what I would recommend as well. Also, wouldn't dose anywhere near your workout (potent anti-oxident). I also wouldn't be wasting my Na-R-ALA for a GH release. Simply use pre-carb meals (away from workout) and reap the benefits.

ALA is good as well, you just need a much higher dose as absorption is poor in comparison to Na-R-ALA.

 

[aaronuconn]

Doctor's Best makes a solid encapsulated Na-R-ALA product. Geronova sourced.

 

[Rostam]

Geronova for sure. NP used to sell it in bulk powder which was legit! Other than NP Na-R-ALA, I would go with SAN, Doctors Best, or Jarrow.

300-600mg per day is what I would recommend as well. Also, wouldn't dose anywhere near your workout (potent anti-oxident). I also wouldn't be wasting my Na-R-ALA for a GH release. Simply use pre-carb meals (away from workout) and reap the benefits.

ALA is good as well, you just need a much higher dose as absorption is poor in comparison to Na-R-ALA.

If I remember correctly there was a thread about antioxidant around workout and Cooper was saying that the ones to avoid around workout were vitamin c and vitamin e. I think he and others said ALA should be okay before workout.

 

[The Solution]

If I remember correctly there was a thread about antioxidant around workout and Cooper was saying that the ones to avoid around workout were vitamin c and vitamin e. I think he and others said ALA should be okay before workout.

avoid fishoils around workout as well. Since they are inflammatory

 

[Rostam]

avoid fishoils around workout as well. Since they are inflammatory

Fish oils are anti-inflammatory you mean right?

What about ALA before pre workout meal? Is there now more evidence in favor or against it?

 

[The Solution]

Fish oils are anti-inflammatory you mean right?

What about ALA before pre workout meal? Is there now more evidence in favor or against it?

Sorry typed too fast. That is correct:
" try and keep your dosing AWAY from training. Training is inflammatory, and believe it or not, we WANT inflammation as that is part of the mechanism behind cuing repair. As fish oil is anti-inflammatory, we do not want to dose it immediately pre or post workout."

^^ one of the Inov8ElitePerformance coaches told me that before.

 

[Rostam]

Sorry typed too fast. That is correct:
" try and keep your dosing AWAY from training. Training is inflammatory, and believe it or not, we WANT inflammation as that is part of the mechanism behind cuing repair. As fish oil is anti-inflammatory, we do not want to dose it immediately pre or post workout."

^^ one of the Inov8ElitePerformance coaches told me that before.

Okay, but what does fishoil have to do with this topic: ALA (Alpha Lipoic Acid)?

 

[The Solution]

ones to avoid around workout were vitamin c and vitamin e. I think he and others said ALA should be okay before workout.

You asked about products to avoid around a workout

Ala be fine prior to a carb meal pre
Workout

Okay, but what does fishoil have to do with this topic: ALA (Alpha Lipoic Acid)?

 

[Rostam]

You asked about products to avoid around a workout

did I?
Kbyne mentioned ALA should not be used around workout and I was wondering why he was sying that as I had the impression that ALA unlike other antioxidants could be used aroound workout.

But this is good information you are sharing here.thanks.

 

[kbayne]

did I?
Kbyne mentioned ALA should not be used around workout and I was wondering why he was sying that as I had the impression that ALA unlike other antioxidants could be used aroound workout.

But this is good information you are sharing here.thanks.

You generally want to keep all antioxidant supplements containing anti-inflammatory properties away from training with the exception of a few.

Most will negatively impact muscle hypertrophy and/or recovery.

 

[Rostam]

You generally want to keep all antioxidant supplements containing anti-inflammatory properties away from training with the exception of a few.

Now we have a discordance between what you and the solution are saying
I have the impression that in general there is a consensus on avoiding vitamins C and E around workout. But hear divergent opinions on ALA.

Same for NAC.

 

[aaronuconn]

Now we have a discordance between what you and the solution are saying
I have the impression that in general there is a consensus on avoiding vitamins C and E around workout. But hear divergent opinions on ALA.

Same for NAC.

We're really trying to avoid anti-oxidants that possess COX-2 inhibiting properties.

Off the top of my head, I'm unsure if ALA does.

Hope that helps.

 

[Nyrin]

We're really trying to avoid anti-oxidants that possess COX-2 inhibiting properties.

Off the top of my head, I'm unsure if ALA does.

Hope that helps.

Spot on. (Am I British now?)

There seems to be mixed data on whether or not ALA affects COX-2. "alpha-Lipoic acid inhibits inflammatory bone resorption by suppressing prostaglandin E2 synthesis" (I'm still a long way from being able to link studies, it seems) suggests it does not:

... LA [ALA] blocked IL-1-induced PGE2 production even in the presence of arachidonic acid, [highlight]without affecting the expression of COX-2[/highlight] and membrane-bound PGE2 synthase.

"Dietary α-lipoic acid prevents UVB-induced corneal and conjunctival degeneration through multiple effects", meanwhile, suggests that it does inhibit COX-2:

...NF-κB-p65, [highlight]COX-2[/highlight], TNF-α, IL-6, and MMP-9 [highlight]activity were all reduced by dietary α-LA[/highlight]

Given that its primary acute usefulness is for its effects on glucose, I'd just say "dose it before one or more meals away from your workout" to be safe. I don't think you're really missing out on much by not having it near a workout anyhow.

 

[anabolix]

If I remember correctly there was a thread about antioxidant around workout and Cooper was saying that the ones to avoid around workout were vitamin c and vitamin e. I think he and others said ALA should be okay before workout.

I would like to hear what mrcooper69 has to say about this. I've read that ala "recycles" vitamin c, for lack of a better word. If vitamin c is bad before a workout, then i would think ala might be as well. This is pure speculation however. I personally take it away from my workout, before my post workout meal. I'll have to research this a bit.

 

[Johnston]

Geronova for sure. NP used to sell it in bulk powder which was legit! Other than NP Na-R-ALA, I would go with SAN, Doctors Best, or Jarrow.

300-600mg per day is what I would recommend as well. Also, wouldn't dose anywhere near your workout (potent anti-oxident). I also wouldn't be wasting my Na-R-ALA for a GH release. Simply use pre-carb meals (away from workout) and reap the benefits.

ALA is good as well, you just need a much higher dose as absorption is poor in comparison to Na-R-ALA.

How is ALA compared to Na-R-ALA in terms of effectiveness, when you standardise the dose? Is it broadly similar or is Na-R-ALA flat out better across the board regardless? And what kind of dose are we talking in comparison? Regular ALA is certainly cheaper and more widely available, but if you would need to mega dose to achieve the same effect as a smaller dose of Na-R-ALA, I guess the cheaper cost would be redundant.

 

[kbayne]

It comes down to the source, quality, and absorption between the two.

I'm not sure you can mega dose ALA and get the same effect of Na-R-ALA.

Most dose ALA at 300-900mg while you can dose Na-R-ALA at 300mg per day.

 

[breezy11]

I've been using ALA for quite a while and it's effective (have also used Na-R-ALA). 600-900mg before carb meals is how I dose it most often, when taken by by itself.

 

[Pec.Major]

Is the benefits from Na-r-ala motivating enough to buy it instead of ALA? Its a big price different. I have always used ALA.

 

[kbayne]

Is the benefits from Na-r-ala motivating enough to buy it instead of ALA? Its a big price different. I have always used ALA.

IMO, yes. Plenty of data showing Na-R-ALA far superior to ALA. At least grab R-ALA.

You can find plenty of links to why you should go with Na over ALA.

http://geronova.com/formulators/bio-enhanced-na-rala/

 

[Pec.Major]

Been checking the link. Good information.
I found a Na-R-ALA bulk powder from a nootropic company based in Arizona. 29$ for 30g. But it dose not stand anything about if it is Geronova sourced.

 

[kbayne]

Been checking the link. Good information.
I found a Na-R-ALA bulk powder from a nootropic company based in Arizona. 29$ for 30g. But it dose not stand anything about if it is Geronova sourced.

I wouldn't buy bulk Na-R-ALA unless it states it is Geronova sourced. 29$ for 30 grams is way too cheap IMO.

It is not cheap, so just be aware of that.

 

[Pec.Major]

I wouldn't buy bulk Na-R-ALA unless it states it is Geronova sourced. 29$ for 30 grams is way too cheap IMO.

It is not cheap, so just be aware of that.

Okey, then I will pass on that, and getting one who is Geronova sourced. Thanks for the head up!

 

[kbayne]

Okey, then I will pass on that, and getting one who is Geronova sourced. Thanks for the head up!

Nutraplanet used to have bulk Na-R-ALA Genorova sourced. Was my and many others go to. I use Jarrow or Doctors Best now. You can find bulk source 100 grams for 99$ though.

 

[Pec.Major]

Nutraplanet used to have bulk Na-R-ALA Genorova sourced. Was my and many others go to. I use Jarrow or Doctors Best now. You can find bulk source 100 grams for 99$ though.

Kbayne, I can get life extension super R-ALA. It is Genorova sourced.
1 capsules is 300mg Na-R-ALA (240mg R-ALA). Is one cap a day enough?

 

[kbayne]

Kbayne, I can get life extension super R-ALA. It is Genorova sourced.
1 capsules is 300mg Na-R-ALA (240mg R-ALA). Is one cap a day enough?

That would be good, yes.

 

[Pec.Major]

That would be good, yes.

Okey. Is it unnecessary dosing 300mg after workout? I was thinking 300mg with my first meal (2 hours before workout) and 300mg post workout meal. This are my biggest meal with the highest amount of carbs.

 

[kbayne]

Okey. Is it unnecessary dosing 300mg after workout? I was thinking 300mg with my first meal (2 hours before workout) and 300mg post workout meal. This are my biggest meal with the highest amount of carbs. B

Yeah, I wouldn't waste a dose post workout (and if hypertrophy is your goal, dosing antioxidants in the peri-workout setting should be avoided).

The good thing with Na-R-ALA, you can take in one dose in the morning if you wanted, and be covered throughout the whole day.

 

[Pec.Major]

Yeah, I wouldn't waste a dose post workout (and if hypertrophy is your goal, dosing antioxidants in the peri-workout setting should be avoided).

The good thing with Na-R-ALA, you can take in one dose in the morning if you wanted, and be covered throughout the whole day.

Yes, I have read that. I thought 2 hours might be enough time from the workout, I guessed it wont be the end of the world anyway.

But that dose in the morning needs to be followed up by some carbs to avoid getting hypoglycemia? Right now I am doing a kind of intermittent fasting, so carbs before the first meal wont work.

 

[kbayne]

Yes, I have read that. I thought 2 hours might be enough time from the workout, I guessed it wont be the end of the world anyway.

But that dose in the morning needs to be followed up by some carbs to avoid getting hypoglycemia? Right now I am doing a kind of intermittent fasting, so carbs before the first meal wont work.

Not everyone goes hypo.

 

[Pec.Major]

Not everyone goes hypo.

Alright. Might try that then.