Androtest, Erase Pro, and Dhea. Whatcha think?

[AllaboutGains]

So I just started this: Androtest from prosource, ErasePro, and DHEA 25mg 2x a day(morning and night). Trying to bulk back up after a ton of atrophy, and its hard as hell dealing with a rather serious leg and ankle injury I got at work last year. So its mostly upper body stuff and rehab work for the lower body. Ive been plugging along and got a base level of musculature and strength back, but now I am looking for that boost. So what do you think? Good, bad, or ugly? This is my first question here, or anywhere for that matter, and I decided to join up here after a lot of browsing the site and it seems that as a whole, the population on here seems rather intelligent and knowledgeable and the reps seem unbiased unlike those on some other sites like bb. So have at it and let me know what you think, I like to learn and am open to your opinions.

 

[kboxer7]

My thoughts:

1.Erase Pro is a solid product and should counter any estrogen sides from DHEA.
2.DHEA tends to be more effective in those 40+ in age. Not sure where you fall in that category, but your dosing is correct (25-50mg).
3. I don't think Androtest is going to raise your test much if at all tbh.


What are your goals at this point? Bulk, cut, recomp? How's your diet and macros?

Unless you're a bit older or have low(er) testosterone to begin with you may want to look into natural anabolic type solutions vs. the OTC natural hormonal stuff which won't have as much of an impact except on your wallet.

 

[AllaboutGains]

My thoughts:

1.Erase Pro is a solid product and should counter any estrogen sides from DHEA.
2.DHEA tends to be more effective in those 40+ in age. Not sure where you fall in that category, but your dosing is correct (25-50mg).
3. I don't think Androtest is going to raise your test much if at all tbh.


What are your goals at this point? Bulk, cut, recomp? How's your diet and macros?

Unless you're a bit older or have low(er) testosterone to begin with you may want to look into natural anabolic type solutions vs. the OTC natural hormonal stuff which won't have as much of an impact except on your wallet.

Im 21, coming back from the injury and dealing with all the BS surrounding it I've been stressed to the point I got really concerned with my cortisol levels and I thought that high cortisol lowered test so I was hoping this stuff would help that as well as getting my strength and size back and maybe even help with the rehabbing of my injury. I have never been concerned with low test before as I have always been quite strong and athletic and never had any issues that would make me think otherwise. So Im just concerned Im in a bad spot and wanna get things back on track.

Right now my goals are bulking and getting my strength back. I eat a pretty good amount most days but I do know that somedays I struggle to eat as much as I know I need to, due to lack of food handy not lack of appetite. Ive been filling the holes in my diet with a good bit of protein shakes and 2% milk blending them with peanut butter and oats and sorghum but thats a band aid and not an ideal solution to rely on as much as I have the past month or so. I get plenty of protein, and I moderate my carbs because I wanna bulk not bloat, but I need more fats.

What would you recommend as far as natural anabolics? And I have some DAA as well, should I start taking that also?

 

[kboxer7]

Im 21, coming back from the injury and dealing with all the BS surrounding it I've been stressed to the point I got really concerned with my cortisol levels and I thought that high cortisol lowered test so I was hoping this stuff would help that as well as getting my strength and size back and maybe even help with the rehabbing of my injury. I have never been concerned with low test before as I have always been quite strong and athletic and never had any issues that would make me think otherwise. So Im just concerned Im in a bad spot and wanna get things back on track.

Right now my goals are bulking and getting my strength back. I eat a pretty good amount most days but I do know that somedays I struggle to eat as much as I know I need to, due to lack of food handy not lack of appetite. Ive been filling the holes in my diet with a good bit of protein shakes and 2% milk blending them with peanut butter and oats and sorghum but thats a band aid and not an ideal solution to rely on as much as I have the past month or so. I get plenty of protein, and I moderate my carbs because I wanna bulk not bloat, but I need more fats.

What would you recommend as far as natural anabolics? And I have some DAA as well, should I start taking that also?

Thanks for the info. That helps.

Being 21 you likely don't have low T, or at least not REAL low T, though stress can affect those levels. And high cortisol if you are really stressed out is never a good thing. Only bloodwork would confirm this, so you might have to try a few things to see what helps you feel better in and out of the gym.

The two approaches below are what I would try out...one at a time of course.

For natural/otc hormone related therapy you might want to do something like the following three:

Reduce-XT by SNS (solid product, good price). This is a good cortisol control supp.
Sup3rPCT by Olympus labs - covers estro + prolactin control, testosterone boosting, GH optimization, and antioxidants + liver health
OL LJ100 - backed up with bloodwork proven to increase free testosterone


For natural anabolics I'd go with the following:

PA (phosphatidic acid) - I'm a big fanboy of this and you can check out some LARGE threads here on the forum about PA. I get mine from Soy Granuals (Fearn is the most popular brand) and you can get it SUPER cheap for like $14/mo supply

(-)epi - from cocoa, super healthy in many ways in addition to being a performance enhancer. I like EP1C from OL the best due to the delivery method touting 200-600% greater absorption with our PhytoFUSE technology. However, EpiPlex an Follidrone are two other popular options on the forum

AND IF MONEY ALLOWS:

A Laxogenin product - I like DermaStr3ngth by OL. There are some crappy laxo products out there with poor extracts and bunk laxo so whatever you choose make sure to look into the reviews etc. first.

As for stress in general, hows your sleep? This may be an area where you can really reap some benefits if it is off. Growth Factor XT by SNS is SOLID as is Hypnos by Chaos and Pain for that dept.


If you need help with dosing or anything just reach out man. We're here to help.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Good advice from kboxer, although I'm in favor of the natural anabolic route choice. PA and (-)epi have been getting a lot of good feedback here in the forum. AnaBeta Elite is also great for bulking and I've lost count of how many times I have used it for successful bulks and recomps.

You mentioned Erase Pro which complements AnaBeta Elite very well, but perhaps consider a PA or epi with AnaBeta Elite stack. A lot of forum members have reported great results with these stacks in regards to bulking.

 

[AllaboutGains]

Thanks for the info. That helps.

Being 21 you likely don't have low T, or at least not REAL low T, though stress can affect those levels. And high cortisol if you are really stressed out is never a good thing. Only bloodwork would confirm this, so you might have to try a few things to see what helps you feel better in and out of the gym.

The two approaches below are what I would try out...one at a time of course.

For natural/otc hormone related therapy you might want to do something like the following three:

Reduce-XT by SNS (solid product, good price). This is a good cortisol control supp.
Sup3rPCT by Olympus labs - covers estro + prolactin control, testosterone boosting, GH optimization, and antioxidants + liver health
OL LJ100 - backed up with bloodwork proven to increase free testosterone


For natural anabolics I'd go with the following:

PA (phosphatidic acid) - I'm a big fanboy of this and you can check out some LARGE threads here on the forum about PA. I get mine from Soy Granuals (Fearn is the most popular brand) and you can get it SUPER cheap for like $14/mo supply

(-)epi - from cocoa, super healthy in many ways in addition to being a performance enhancer. I like EP1C from OL the best due to the delivery method touting 200-600% greater absorption with our PhytoFUSE technology. However, EpiPlex an Follidrone are two other popular options on the forum

AND IF MONEY ALLOWS:

A Laxogenin product - I like DermaStr3ngth by OL. There are some crappy laxo products out there with poor extracts and bunk laxo so whatever you choose make sure to look into the reviews etc. first.

As for stress in general, hows your sleep? This may be an area where you can really reap some benefits if it is off. Growth Factor XT by SNS is SOLID as is Hypnos by Chaos and Pain for that dept.


If you need help with dosing or anything just reach out man. We're here to help.

Thank you for the ideas, I really appreciate it. A lot of stuff to look into as I have no idea what (-)epi or Laxogenin are but I will be researching it now.

As far as sleep, I have been diagnosed with sleep apnea and do not want a CPAP machine because I toss and turn and just don't want a mask and tube on my face in general. So thats something I have been dealing with for a good while now. I take 10mg melatonin a night, sometimes more if I can't sleep, I was doing L-dopa for awhile but Im cycling off that right now. I tried valerian root and hated it, I would be so groggy the next morning it was just miserable. I will say tho that I have been sleeping a little bit better since I have been lifting again but my version of decent sleep is not ideal.

I was down as low as 170 when my leg really wasted away when I was non weight bearing and then I got into a bad habit of eating crap, so I got fat. Then I lost all that chub and now I'm back up to a muscular 200, not shredded lean but I can see my abs. But I want to keep growing and lifting is really the only thing keeping me sane (always has been) and I want to be bigger then I used to be. But without doing squats or deadlifts of any weight it is hard as hell.

What ingredients work the best for cortisol control? I know ashwaganda is supposed to be one of the popular ones, but what else? And what do you think about ashwaganda?

Again thank you for all the information, Im full of questions and don't want to just bombard you with them all at once so I will try to spread them out haha

 

[kboxer7]

No problem.

My sleep pattern is absolute garbage. Its terrible. I get like a few hours a night. I used to use melatonin but tolerance builds up for me fairly quickly. ZMA helps a little but not enough to get a good night's rest. NyQuil will do the trick most of the time but I don't make a habit of using that. Growth Factor XT dose a pretty good job, but the only sleep aid I've used that really gives me a night's rest is Hypnos by C&P. I just don't use it every night because I don't want to build a tolerance or rely on it too much.

Congrats on getting back to 200lbs man. It is one HELL of a ride trying to get back after an injury.

I like ashwaganda myself. It has some decent researh behind it for relieving insomnia and stress-induced depression as well as cortisol. 300mg of an ashwagandha extract ('full spectrum') for 60 days in persons with chronic mental stress was able to improve all tested parameters and reduced serum cortisol by 27.9% as well**

Other cortisol options:
- Fish oil
- Vitamin C
- Long Jack has shown up to at 16% decrease in cortisol, accompanied by an increase in subjective well being, and a 37% increase in testosterone in healthy men (46% increase in hypogonadal men)**

Olympus labs has the patented extract that is used in the studies (LJ100). Added benefit of increasing free test by quite a bit as well*
- Soy lecithin - may reduce exercise induced cortisol/stress


*Indian J Psychol Med. 2012 Jul;34(3):255-62. doi: 10.4103/0253-7176.106022.
A prospective, randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled study of safety and efficacy of a high-concentration full-spectrum extract of ashwagandha root in reducing stress and anxiety in adults.

**Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2013, 10:28 doi:10.1186/1550-2783-10-28
Published: 26 May 2013

 

[AllaboutGains]

No problem.

My sleep pattern is absolute garbage. Its terrible. I get like a few hours a night. I used to use melatonin but tolerance builds up for me fairly quickly. ZMA helps a little but not enough to get a good night's rest. NyQuil will do the trick most of the time but I don't make a habit of using that. Growth Factor XT dose a pretty good job, but the only sleep aid I've used that really gives me a night's rest is Hypnos by C&P. I just don't use it every night because I don't want to build a tolerance or rely on it too much.

Congrats on getting back to 200lbs man. It is one HELL of a ride trying to get back after an injury.

I like ashwaganda myself. It has some decent researh behind it for relieving insomnia and stress-induced depression as well as cortisol. 300mg of an ashwagandha extract ('full spectrum') for 60 days in persons with chronic mental stress was able to improve all tested parameters and reduced serum cortisol by 27.9% as well**

Other cortisol options:
- Fish oil
- Vitamin C
- Long Jack has shown up to at 16% decrease in cortisol, accompanied by an increase in subjective well being, and a 37% increase in testosterone in healthy men (46% increase in hypogonadal men)**

Olympus labs has the patented extract that is used in the studies (LJ100). Added benefit of increasing free test by quite a bit as well*
- Soy lecithin - may reduce exercise induced cortisol/stress


*Indian J Psychol Med. 2012 Jul;34(3):255-62. doi: 10.4103/0253-7176.106022.
A prospective, randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled study of safety and efficacy of a high-concentration full-spectrum extract of ashwagandha root in reducing stress and anxiety in adults.

**Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2013, 10:28 doi:10.1186/1550-2783-10-28
Published: 26 May 2013

I absolutely hate the groggy feeling nyquil gives me, I feel horrible if I take anything with DXM in it. Ill have to look into the Hypnos then. I take ZMA but the one I have now has valerian root and I hate it so I haven't been taking it and I have to get a different one. The Melatonin helps me a bit but Ive been taking it for so long, it doesn't work as well as it used to. The Ldopa is one of those things tho that works if I take a good bit of it but if I take enough to actually stay in REM for a good amount of time, I truly struggle to get out of bed in the morning and thats not good either.

I take a lot of fish oil. Having all the injuries I have, I am all for trying to prevent arthritis. I separated my right a/c joint wrestling when I was 16, and have separated it many times since then. I blew out both my labrums at 17 playing football early in the season, and had surgery on those that winter after playing thru it all season. And then at 18 I tore my left ACL playing football early in the season and finished the season with no ACL that year as well. And now with this I had my leg crushed by over 1000lbs of glass last year and it dislocated my right knee and smashed and twisted my ankle, tearing my MCL, ACL, twisting my patellar tendon, and breaking my heel bone in 3 pieces and tearing ligaments in my ankle. The ankle ligaments are what I am trying to figure out the next course of action on right now. So I am kinda getting the comeback down to a science at this point but this one has been the hardest and longest one. And the doctors won't give me bionic limbs because I have asked. I am sick of getting hurt but apparently we don't have robot technology for those of us that like to find limits and then go right past them.

So I really need to get this stress under control because this longterm high stress and the periodic depression have been kicking my ass for the past few years. I have found grey hairs appearing in my beard and at 21 that is unacceptable. So I think Im going to pick up some ashwaganda and start there and if that doesn't work on its own then I'll probably look into that LJ100. I have heard a lot of good things about long jack and that looks like a solid product. Do you think the gnc ashwaganda will work well enough?

And as for the (-)epi and laxogenin I think I'll hold off on those until I can get back to moving heavy ass weight again to get into them but the (-)epi looks like it has a lot of good reviews.

 

[kboxer7]

I absolutely hate the groggy feeling nyquil gives me, I feel horrible if I take anything with DXM in it. Ill have to look into the Hypnos then. I take ZMA but the one I have now has valerian root and I hate it so I haven't been taking it and I have to get a different one. The Melatonin helps me a bit but Ive been taking it for so long, it doesn't work as well as it used to. The Ldopa is one of those things tho that works if I take a good bit of it but if I take enough to actually stay in REM for a good amount of time, I truly struggle to get out of bed in the morning and thats not good either.

I take a lot of fish oil. Having all the injuries I have, I am all for trying to prevent arthritis. I separated my right a/c joint wrestling when I was 16, and have separated it many times since then. I blew out both my labrums at 17 playing football early in the season, and had surgery on those that winter after playing thru it all season. And then at 18 I tore my left ACL playing football early in the season and finished the season with no ACL that year as well. And now with this I had my leg crushed by over 1000lbs of glass last year and it dislocated my right knee and smashed and twisted my ankle, tearing my MCL, ACL, twisting my patellar tendon, and breaking my heel bone in 3 pieces and tearing ligaments in my ankle. The ankle ligaments are what I am trying to figure out the next course of action on right now. So I am kinda getting the comeback down to a science at this point but this one has been the hardest and longest one. And the doctors won't give me bionic limbs because I have asked. I am sick of getting hurt but apparently we don't have robot technology for those of us that like to find limits and then go right past them.

So I really need to get this stress under control because this longterm high stress and the periodic depression have been kicking my ass for the past few years. I have found grey hairs appearing in my beard and at 21 that is unacceptable. So I think Im going to pick up some ashwaganda and start there and if that doesn't work on its own then I'll probably look into that LJ100. I have heard a lot of good things about long jack and that looks like a solid product. Do you think the gnc ashwaganda will work well enough?

And as for the (-)epi and laxogenin I think I'll hold off on those until I can get back to moving heavy ass weight again to get into them but the (-)epi looks like it has a lot of good reviews.

Holy crap...sorry to hear about all those injuries man. I'm hurting over here just thinking about all that.

GNC ashwaganda is prob fine. Most studies used normal full spectrum ashwaganda but you may need to find what % extract works best for you (1-8% is what I've seen as the most common). AdrenoSurge by BPS has that ingredient in it as well as others for stress as an alternative ($19.99).

Over at NutraPlanet they have Jarrow, NOW foods and Natures Way brands for like $9-$13.

I don't think you'd be disappointed with LJ100. A lot of good research to back it up and reviews have been steller, as well as backed up with bloodwork showing effectiveness. Regardless of if you go with Olympus Labs or not just don't make the mistake of buying some random long jack. Use the patented extract called LJ100. If that is not on the label I wouldn't bother with it.

Also, you may want to look into Ghar1ne by OL. It is a growth hormone product and has research behind its restorative and healing properties with clinical research behind the compound. A lot of people are using it not only for anabolism but also to repair old battle wounds.

 

[AllaboutGains]

Holy crap...sorry to hear about all those injuries man. I'm hurting over here just thinking about all that.

GNC ashwaganda is prob fine. Most studies used normal full spectrum ashwaganda but you may need to find what % extract works best for you (1-8% is what I've seen as the most common). AdrenoSurge by BPS has that ingredient in it as well as others for stress as an alternative ($19.99).

Over at NutraPlanet they have Jarrow, NOW foods and Natures Way brands for like $9-$13.

I don't think you'd be disappointed with LJ100. A lot of good research to back it up and reviews have been steller, as well as backed up with bloodwork showing effectiveness. Regardless of if you go with Olympus Labs or not just don't make the mistake of buying some random long jack. Use the patented extract called LJ100. If that is not on the label I wouldn't bother with it.

Also, you may want to look into Ghar1ne by OL. It is a growth hormone product and has research behind its restorative and healing properties with clinical research behind the compound. A lot of people are using it not only for anabolism but also to repair old battle wounds.

Yeah.. its been a long string of injuries. But I got a pretty thorough crash course in how the body works and how to recover quickly. At least it was quick with the single joint injuries. This compound multi joint injury has been complicated. What sucks the most is I was squatting 485 and benching 325 at 16 and it frustrates me I haven't gotten back there yet. Everytime I get close I get set back.

Ok good because they have it bogo half off right now but it is only like 1.5% extract, but ill look at that adrenosurge before I decide.

Once this is done Ill have to get some money again and do another stack. Since I bought it Im still taking the Androtest and DHEA, it'd be a waste not to. But I did start taking the DAA I had along with it.

What are the ingredients in Ghar1ne? Because I haven't seen too many GH stimulators that look believable but I would be genuinely interested in one thats truly good and has some real science behind it.

 

[kboxer7]

Yeah.. its been a long string of injuries. But I got a pretty thorough crash course in how the body works and how to recover quickly. At least it was quick with the single joint injuries. This compound multi joint injury has been complicated. What sucks the most is I was squatting 485 and benching 325 at 16 and it frustrates me I haven't gotten back there yet. Everytime I get close I get set back.

Ok good because they have it bogo half off right now but it is only like 1.5% extract, but ill look at that adrenosurge before I decide.

Once this is done Ill have to get some money again and do another stack. Since I bought it Im still taking the Androtest and DHEA, it'd be a waste not to. But I did start taking the DAA I had along with it.

What are the ingredients in Ghar1ne? Because I haven't seen too many GH stimulators that look believable but I would be genuinely interested in one thats truly good and has some real science behind it.

It is legit. Not that crap that's been around for years. It is a growth hormone secretalouge that was developed by big pharma with real clinical trials backing it up.

The ingredient is MK 677. Developed by Merck if I remember correctly. Google it, I think you'll be impressed.

OL is the only company I know that does 3rd party testing for purity not just a COA.

 

[AllaboutGains]

It is legit. Not that crap that's been around for years. It is a growth hormone secretalouge that was developed by big pharma with real clinical trials backing it up.

The ingredient is MK 677. Developed by Merck if I remember correctly. Google it, I think you'll be impressed.

OL is the only company I know that does 3rd party testing for purity not just a COA.

That does look legit. If it was pharma how come its now available as a supplement? Seems to me that if it works that well they'd have kept that to themselves like they do everything else.

And while I was reading into that I saw something about waking up with numb hands being a side of increased GH. I wake up with numb hands and arms regularly as is so could that mean I just have high GH naturally? Its been happening regularly since I was about 15.

 

[kboxer7]

That does look legit. If it was pharma how come its now available as a supplement? Seems to me that if it works that well they'd have kept that to themselves like they do everything else.

And while I was reading into that I saw something about waking up with numb hands being a side of increased GH. I wake up with numb hands and arms regularly as is so could that mean I just have high GH naturally? Its been happening regularly since I was about 15.

I can't speculate as to what Merck's plans are or what stage they are in with regards to MK 677. The longest human trial was 2 years and it worked for that period of time. That's what we know from peer reviewed journals documenting the trials.

I personally wouldn't reach to assume you have high GH based on numb hands and arms. There are a number of reasons you could have been experiencing that.

 

[AllaboutGains]

I can't speculate as to what Merck's plans are or what stage they are in with regards to MK 677. The longest human trial was 2 years and it worked for that period of time. That's what we know from peer reviewed journals documenting the trials.

I personally wouldn't reach to assume you have high GH based on numb hands and arms. There are a number of reasons you could have been experiencing that.

Damn, ah well. But thanks a ton for all the food for thought, I appreciate it.

 

[IronAddiction]

Blast some Epi-GH from primevallabs and get this show on the road man!
Epiandrosterone 75mg + MK-677 10mg.

You can stack with a mild sarm like Ostarine, we also have it in our line as Super Ostacfor its lean mass gaining abilities + ability to aide in joint health from my experience.

An epiandro+ gh secretagogue + sarm sounds like you will have all your bases covered. Pick up something for a mild pct like rebirth from brundel and black lion research and you will be well on your way.

 

[kboxer7]

Blast some Epi-GH from primevallabs and get this show on the road man!
Epiandrosterone 75mg + MK-677 10mg.

You can stack with a mild sarm like Ostarine, we also have it in our line as Super Ostacfor its lean mass gaining abilities + ability to aide in joint health from my experience.

An epiandro+ gh secretagogue + sarm sounds like you will have all your bases covered. Pick up something for a mild pct like rebirth from brundel and black lion research and you will be well on your way.

I'd rather go Mass GH, but then again I'm biased : )

 

[IronAddiction]

I'd rather go Mass GH, but then again I'm biased : )

I'd rather go deca+test but then again I am biased... pshh

 

[AllaboutGains]

Blast some Epi-GH from primevallabs and get this show on the road man!
Epiandrosterone 75mg + MK-677 10mg.

You can stack with a mild sarm like Ostarine, we also have it in our line as Super Ostacfor its lean mass gaining abilities + ability to aide in joint health from my experience.

An epiandro+ gh secretagogue + sarm sounds like you will have all your bases covered. Pick up something for a mild pct like rebirth from brundel and black lion research and you will be well on your way.

Not to sure what sarms are. I looked em up but don't really understand the difference between them and pro hormones

 

[IronAddiction]

If you want more information I can help you out. Just send me a pm with whatever you have a question about. No need for me to drop some pharmacokinetics and molecular biochemistry in here. Willing to help always. AllaboutGains

 

[AllaboutGains]

I see they are supposed to be selective to the androgen receptors in muscle but how does that work?