AMP Citrate

[Volvo140G]

Best workouts ever.... seems somewhat toxic according to the msds.

What do we think broze?

 

[Hockeyaus33]

Where are you buying it at? What is your dose?

 

[Chuck Diesel]

I thought this was banned, or on the way to being banned?

 

[Volvo140G]

Taking lecheek ampitropin... 300 mg amp per pill plus I think 100 mg.caffeine and pikatropin

 

[Volvo140G]

I thought this was banned, or on the way to being banned?

You're right, but u know how it goes...

 

[nfmejia0486]

I've heard that you quickly build up a tolerance to AMP Citrate and it loses its effectiveness.

 

[lancelotspear]

I thought this was banned, or on the way to being banned?

Hey chuck. Can you contact me please

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Hey chuck. Can you contact me please

I PM'ed you if thats what you mean.

 

[lancelotspear]

I just sent you a text. Did you recieve it?

 

[Volvo140G]

I've heard that you quickly build up a tolerance to AMP Citrate and it loses its effectiveness.

Sure, like any stim...

I'm only using on WO days so 4 or 5 days a week. No tolerance issues yet...

 

[bonbon]

for me, AMP citrate was comparable to plain caffeine. I've heard some good reviews, but at least for me, not worth it

 

[alp.mozart]

Amp citrate along with nootropics and 200 mg of caffeine has provided me with great workouts, however I don't utilize amp citrate unless I am particularly tired or know I have an insanely high intensity workout like leg day. Toxicity/tolerance is definitely an issue in my opinion.

 

[Auslifter]

dmba is wicked.

 

[Godstrength]

dmba is wicked.

Wicked grrrrrr.....
If you get a good amp citrate dosed around 250 it's amazing.... Smoother than DMAA in my opinion, a little cleaner with no crash.... That there DMBA

I been using a product from centurion labz, God of War (red version). Best pre I've ever used no lie, no affiliations

 

[pyrobatt]

We also sell amp here at chaos and pain.

We also have a pre and fat burner with amp.

 

[AntM1564]

I love it. I only try to use it after a tough day at work or when I need that extra kick. If it is a fasted morning workout, just give me caffeine, AMP will have me off the walls

 

[T-Bone]

I thought this was banned, or on the way to being banned?

Yes, it is illegal to sell supplements containing Amp Citrate,

http://www.fda.gov/Food/DietarySupplements/QADietarySupplements/ucm444719.htm

 

[grinnell27]

It's banned in: U.S. UK, Canada, New Zealand, Sweden, Australia, Brazil.

 

[kboxer7]

Best workouts ever.... seems somewhat toxic according to the msds.

What do we think broze?

I don't know man. There isn't a ton of info out there to extrapolate to what extent the toxicity of AMP is. The one thing that is consistent is that it IS toxic to SOME extent. What this may indicate for long term use or for a certain dosage....who knows.

I'd lean away from it. My personal fav is DMAA....arguably not the safest but from a toxicity standpoint I'll take that over AMP.

Just a little info below for you all...

1,3-Dimethylbutylamine Chemical Properties,Usage,Production

General Description
A liquid with a fishlike odor. Less dense than water. Flash point 39 - 55°F. Vapors heavier than air. May be toxic by ingestion, inhalation and skin absorption.

Air & Water Reactions
Highly flammable. Slightly soluble in water. May be air sensitive.

Reactivity Profile
1,3-Dimethylbutylamine neutralizes acids in exothermic reactions to form salts plus water. May be incompatible with isocyanates, halogenated organics, peroxides, phenols (acidic), epoxides, anhydrides, and acid halides. Flammable gaseous hydrogen may be generated in combination with strong reducing agents, such as hydrides.

Health Hazard
May cause toxic effects if inhaled or ingested/swallowed. Contact with substance may cause severe burns to skin and eyes. Fire will produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Vapors may cause dizziness or suffocation. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may cause pollution.

Fire Hazard
Flammable/combustible material. May be ignited by heat, sparks or flames. Vapors may form explosive mixtures with air. Vapors may travel to source of ignition and flash back. Most vapors are heavier than air. They will spread along ground and collect in low or confined areas (sewers, basements, tanks). Vapor explosion hazard indoors, outdoors or in sewers. Runoff to sewer may create fire or explosion hazard. Containers may explode when heated. Many liquids are lighter than water.

 

[totalpackage]

Taking lecheek ampitropin... 300 mg amp per pill plus I think 100 mg.caffeine and pikatropin

I have that same product but I ONLY use it like once a month on heavy leg or back days and I stack 1
cap with a not so heavy stimulant PW like the old version of ASSAULT, Super Charge, and other low
stimulant PW of that nature. I also have the ingredient in CONTRABAND which is also a pretty good
PW but again only very sparing do I use it also I've tried E.S.P. by Metabolic nutrition at about 7 1/2 gm
which is about 350mg of caffeine and that one delivers so VERY GOOD energy and focus but again I
wouldn't recommend using too often.

Today I pulled a 1,3 thermo from Bentacourt out of my archives and had a fantastic leg and ab workout
and no side effect in the boner Lol cause I'm running DTHC right now and even on my day off from DTHC
it still had my back actually it kept my bone

 

[Chuck Diesel]

I have that same product but I ONLY use it like once a month on heavy leg or back days and I stack 1
cap with a not so heavy stimulant PW like the old version of ASSAULT, Super Charge, and other low
stimulant PW of that nature. I also have the ingredient in CONTRABAND which is also a pretty good
PW but again only very sparing do I use it also I've tried E.S.P. by Metabolic nutrition at about 7 1/2 gm
which is about 350mg of caffeine and that one delivers so VERY GOOD energy and focus but again I
wouldn't recommend using too often.

Today I pulled a 1,3 thermo from Bentacourt out of my archives and had a fantastic leg and ab workout
and no side effect in the boner Lol cause I'm running DTHC right now and even on my day off from DTHC
it still had my back actually it kept my bone

idk about ampcitrate, never used it...but 1,3 D.....was the boner killa! That stuff would knock out boners worse than ephedrine, and
for a long ass time.

 

[kboxer7]

idk about ampcitrate, never used it...but 1,3 D.....was the boner killa! That stuff would knock out boners worse than ephedrine, and
for a long ass time.

Yeah...that "stim dick" for lack of a more polite term lol. Still, one heck of a workout haha.

 

[liftingamber12]

I use a preworkout with 200mg caffeine & amp citrate (ordered from across the pond) on my strength & bigger movement days. I love it. I sweat more & definitely can move more weight. I actually have to be very careful not to over do it!!

 

[liftingamber12]

idk about ampcitrate, never used it...but 1,3 D.....was the boner killa! That stuff would knock out boners worse than ephedrine, and
for a long ass time.

My hubby uses amp citrate (in pill form) without any issues in that dept!! So, it definitely doesn't have the same effect as ephedrine.

 

[yates84]

idk about ampcitrate, never used it...but 1,3 D.....was the boner killa! That stuff would knock out boners worse than ephedrine, and
for a long ass time.

The wood is all good on amp citrate, no problems in that department

 

[mw1]

Taking lecheek ampitropin... 300 mg amp per pill plus I think 100 mg.caffeine and pikatropin

That's the same one I buy....other amp citrate products didn't do much for me

 

[Volvo140G]

That's the same one I buy....other amp citrate products didn't do much for me

Its a phenomenal product... the toxicity concerns me however. Leaves my pupils quite dilated too so u know its good

 

[mw1]

Its a phenomenal product... the toxicity concerns me however. Leaves my pupils quite dilated too so u know its good

Ive never noticed that . I just take 1 cap at a time to give me energy on days that I need it..rarely take2 caps in one day

 

[Volvo140G]

I'm a one cap'r too.... smooth n clean

 

[Segansational]

Ive never noticed that . I just take 1 cap at a time to give me energy on days that I need it..rarely take2 caps in one day

I actually found DMAA to be much cleaner than amp cit. High dosed amp cit gave me the chills and some nausea. DMAA could give the zoned out feeling if too high.

 

[liftingamber12]

Anyone else find that the DMAA kills your appetite? Not sure if it was that or not. I've taken it twice & both times had no appetite. I'm not good at force feeding myself. So, I haven't taken it again.

 

[Afi140]

Anyone else find that the DMAA kills your appetite? Not sure if it was that or not. I've taken it twice & both times had no appetite. I'm not good at force feeding myself. So, I haven't taken it again.

Yeah it's the dmaa. Great on a cut but doesn't sound to good for you at the moment lol.

 

[De__eB]

Best workouts ever.... seems somewhat toxic according to the msds.

What do we think broze?

I think the FDA has pretty plainly stated that it's illegal to sell as a synthetic ingredient in supplements without an NDI.

And that it is a technical impossibility to be large scale extracting an active dose from natural sources to dodge an NDI.

And that even if an NDI were to be submitted there is no expectation that the ingredient could be considered safe for human consumption at the suggested doses.

Enjoy it while it lasts

 

[liftingamber12]

Yeah it's the dmaa. Great on a cut but doesn't sound to good for you at the moment lol.

Thank you. I was wondering if it was that. I'm currently cutting, but it completely killed my appetite (putting me way under my caloric needs for those days). I'll stick to lower cals & fat burners that don't inhibit my appetite as much!!

 

[T-Bone]

I think the FDA has pretty plainly stated that it's illegal to sell as a synthetic ingredient in supplements without an NDI.

And that it is a technical impossibility to be large scale extracting an active dose from natural sources to dodge an NDI.

And that even if an NDI were to be submitted there is no expectation that the ingredient could be considered safe for human consumption at the suggested doses.

Enjoy it while it lasts

Yet some companies still continue to sell it. I'm wondering what is going through their minds.

 

[grinnell27]

Yet some companies still continue to sell it. I'm wondering what is going through their minds.

What's the actual 'dangerous' dose?
Caffeine will kill you if you ingest enough?

 

[T-Bone]

What's the actual 'dangerous' dose?
Caffeine will kill you if you ingest enough?

I have no idea about that. Just think these companies should comply and stop selling it as a supplement.

 

[kboxer7]

I have no idea about that. Just think these companies should comply and stop selling it as a supplement.

Correct me if I'm wrong here T-Bone, but AMP Citrate was deemed illegal to sell as a supplement (as it currently stands), but DMAA has not officially been deemed illegal to sell as a supplement (yet), just that "warning" letters from the powers that be were sent to co's as well as seizure of some supps yes?

I know Hi_Tech pharma is fighting this...and while I was skeptical, further reading and investigation into DMAA has led me to believe that there is in fact solid evidence and at least two research papers proving that DMAA does in fact exist in nature (albeit at a wide range of concentrations).

 

[grinnell27]

I have no idea about that. Just think these companies should comply and stop selling it as a supplement.

Don't disagree that in higher quantities it could be dangerous and possibly even carcinogenic... I just don't quite understand the bans.

DMAA was around for quite a while and people were fine when not overdosing or taking with health complications... That got banned obviously because people abused it and we're stupid.

I wonder how accurate these studies are in regards to human consumption. Most studies seem to be very large quantities within mice, if it's converted into a human amount it could be 100x the dose of a preworkout.

Like I mentioned, caffeine will kill a human quite easily if ingested in high quantities... Yet no ban.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just wanting to see your side of the argument.

 

[T-Bone]

Don't disagree that in higher quantities it could be dangerous and possibly even carcinogenic... I just don't quite understand the bans.

DMAA was around for quite a while and people were fine when not overdosing or taking with health complications... That got banned obviously because people abused it and we're stupid.

I wonder how accurate these studies are in regards to human consumption. Most studies seem to be very large quantities within mice, if it's converted into a human amount it could be 100x the dose of a preworkout.

Like I mentioned, caffeine will kill a human quite easily if ingested in high quantities... Yet no ban.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just wanting to see your side of the argument.

I'm a big fan of DMAA. It's Amp Citrate that kinda scares me. What I was trying to say was if the FDA bans an ingredient saying it is illegal to sell as a supplement, supplement companies should comply with that. If they don't, it just makes that company look bad and it kind of trickles down to the entire supplement industry.

 

[grinnell27]

I'm a big fan of DMAA. It's Amp Citrate that kinda scares me. What I was trying to say was if the FDA bans an ingredient saying it is illegal to sell as a supplement, supplement companies should comply with that. If they don't, it just makes that company look bad and it kind of trickles down to the entire supplement industry.

That's a fair comment.

 

[De__eB]

The FDA has called both ingredients illegal and maintains that position to this day.

Neither was marketed as a dietary supplement or present in the food supply in the dose used in supplements before 1994.

Therefore an NDI is required, none was ever filed and accepted.

So the FDA has all the grounds they need to remove it from the market, but it's up to them to do so. If they don't specifically go after a company and tell them to stop selling it, it's unlikely that company is going to suffer any real penalties beyond their financial sink in the product whenever the FDA does go after them.

 

[Nyrin]

There's still active litigation going on right now involving DMAA; it'll be really interesting to see how Hi-Tech's case turns out, but I'm not going to hold my breath on anything much changing.

The thing that's dreadfully apparent is that the FDA's enforcement of the DSHEA is motivated by politics, not public health. The two overlap with a reasonable frequency, but you don't need to look much further than DMAA or aegeline to see how things work: total carte blanche until a public crisis is perceived (founded or unfounded) followed by immediate, summary action with no followup or investigation.

DSHEA compliant or not, I'm happy buying my cheap bulk DMAA and adding it myself when I want that extra kick. I actually find the stuff smoother than caffeine (longer half-life and less "crash") and the decongestant properties are just an added bonus.

 

[Hockeyaus33]

There's still active litigation going on right now involving DMAA; it'll be really interesting to see how Hi-Tech's case turns out, but I'm not going to hold my breath on anything much changing.

The thing that's dreadfully apparent is that the FDA's enforcement of the DSHEA is motivated by politics, not public health. The two overlap with a reasonable frequency, but you don't need to look much further than DMAA or aegeline to see how things work: total carte blanche until a public crisis is perceived (founded or unfounded) followed by immediate, summary action with no followup or investigation.

DSHEA compliant or not, I'm happy buying my cheap bulk DMAA and adding it myself when I want that extra kick. I actually find the stuff smoother than caffeine (longer half-life and less "crash") and the decongestant properties are just an added bonus.

Where are you purchasing your DMAA from?

 

[Nyrin]

Where are you purchasing your DMAA from?

There are a number of vendors that sell it as a standalone compound, typically marketed as "for research purposes" given that the DSHEA issues make it risky to name or imply that it's a "supplement" intended for human consumption.

A quick internet search for "bulk DMAA" or similar will find several, including the one that I bought my last 25g bag from that's lasting me a very long time; doesn't feel quite right to just website drop on the forum, but it's there. Just have to avoid the really gimmicky listings from websites that actually have "dmaa" in the domain name, as they're generally not very legitimate.

 

[squirtguns89]

ive heard a lot of mixed things about a popular vendor, as far as "googling for it", top source is generally the one thats most talked about good and bad. although i also think part of the problem is people are stim junkies used to popping 400mg+ caffeine plus other stims pre workout then wondering why their dmaa isnt hitting them like they expect.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

ive heard a lot of mixed things about a popular vendor, as far as "googling for it", top source is generally the one thats most talked about good and bad. although i also think part of the problem is people are stim junkies used to popping 400mg+ caffeine plus other stims pre workout then wondering why their dmaa isnt hitting them like they expect.

I use 2 respond to 15mg of dmaa

 

[The monk60]

I have a high stim tolerance but had to lay off the 1,3 and the amp. Started crashing hard as hell on one and the other started making me nauseated.
I just play with the average pws now. I do have some Dust v2 coming so we will see how that goes. I like the nootropics well...if I spelled that right

 

[squirtguns89]

I use 2 respond to 15mg of dmaa

25mg hits me nicely. will just add an extra 100mg caffeine when i need to, tolerance isnt building up fast like i expected. but i also dont dose stims to get "stim high", i do it for a boost. i do question whether that variable plays into peoples opinion of sources, aka, dosing things super high in the first place and not hitting them right.

 

[horizons]

Dmaa > dmba

Dmaa is smoother and hits harder. Dmba makes me feel wired in a strange way