soy promotes eostrogen, thoughts?

[anabolicanth]

i have read a fair few articles that have mixed evidence and opinions on the issue. soy has been shown to have a few pros and cons, for eg. helping to prevent heart disease but is also linked to promoting eostrogen. some people think its a good addition to your diet whilst others wouldn't go near it.
i personally take up to 1-1.5L litres soy milk per day since i am allergic to regular milk and eggs. soy enables me to hit my protein target as its cheap and easy, but i also dont want soy to be raise my eostrogen levels abnormally.
what do you think of soy? is the amount im taking too much? and if i continue to take 1-1.5L per day would an eostrogen blocker maybe be a possible solution?

anyhow hopefully i dont grow a vagina anytime soon and sorry if this topic has already been discussed before

thanks

 

[kenpoengineer]

Switch to almond milk. This soy vs estrogen debate goes on here all the time. Popcorn at the ready for the heated arguments!

 

[anabolicanth]

Switch to almond milk. This soy vs estrogen debate goes on here all the time. Popcorn at the ready for the heated arguments!

ill give it a crack, im allergic to most nuts too but that should be alright. hahah i havent noticed any thus far, im new here, but i know it'd be something that people could debate on forever, it would be pretty entertaining hahah. thanks for the input though

 

[kboxer7]

ill give it a crack, im allergic to most nuts too but that should be alright. hahah i havent noticed any thus far, im new here, but i know it'd be something that people could debate on forever, it would be pretty entertaining hahah. thanks for the input though

Could give coconut milk a try. Pretty tasty and some good options out there at the stores now.

As for soy.... isoflavones (Genistein and Daidzein specifically) that are found in most soy products do mimic estrogen to some extent. These isoflavones are found in concentrations ranging from 1-10mg/100g of soybeans, which in processed foods comes out to about 20-45% isoflavones.

However, for the most part studies have shown that while testosterone IS (or can be) negatively affected to some degree, the degree to which this occurs is not likely to cause any noticeable problems.

*Maskarinec G, et al Serum prostate-specific antigen but not testosterone levels decrease in a randomized soy intervention among men . Eur J Clin Nutr. (2006)

 

[T-Bone]

This again...oh boy. Look forward to another 50 pages of back and fourth!

 

[kboxer7]

This again...oh boy. Look forward to another 50 pages of back and fourth!

You putting on the boxing gloves or grabbing popcorn for this one T-Bone lol.

 

[T-Bone]

You putting on the boxing gloves or grabbing popcorn for this one T-Bone lol.

Popcorn of course. I mostly don't participate in debates, it's exhausting and nothing ever seems to come from it. People either forget about or the thread gets deleted or locked....The cycle continues.

 

[kboxer7]

Popcorn of course. I mostly don't participate in debates, it's exhausting and nothing ever seems to come from it. People either forget about or the thread gets deleted or locked....The cycle continues.

Good call.

 

[bighulksmash]

i have read a fair few articles that have mixed evidence and opinions on the issue. soy has been shown to have a few pros and cons, for eg. helping to prevent heart disease but is also linked to promoting eostrogen. some people think its a good addition to your diet whilst others wouldn't go near it.
i personally take up to 1-1.5L litres soy milk per day since i am allergic to regular milk and eggs. soy enables me to hit my protein target as its cheap and easy, but i also dont want soy to be raise my eostrogen levels abnormally.
what do you think of soy? is the amount im taking too much? and if i continue to take 1-1.5L per day would an eostrogen blocker maybe be a possible solution?

anyhow hopefully i dont grow a vagina anytime soon and sorry if this topic has already been discussed before

thanks

I said this on my first day here almost got blown up in my honda haha had to delete thread in under 3 minutes .. good debate iam in !!!

 

[Hockeyaus33]

I would like to know the truth so I can start eating my lecithin granules again

 

[kboxer7]

I would like to know the truth so I can start wating my lecithin granules again

Lecithin granuals do not contain the isoflavones that are estrogenic in nature.

 

[anabolicanth]

This again...oh boy. Look forward to another 50 pages of back and fourth!

ahaha oh no i've started a war

 

[anabolicanth]

I said this on my first day here almost got blown up in my honda haha had to delete thread in under 3 minutes .. good debate iam in !!!

hahaha! thats intense

 

[anabolicanth]

Could give coconut milk a try. Pretty tasty and some good options out there at the stores now.

As for soy.... isoflavones (Genistein and Daidzein specifically) that are found in most soy products do mimic estrogen to some extent. These isoflavones are found in concentrations ranging from 1-10mg/100g of soybeans, which in processed foods comes out to about 20-45% isoflavones.

However, for the most part studies have shown that while testosterone IS (or can be) negatively affected to some degree, the degree to which this occurs is not likely to cause any noticeable problems.

*Maskarinec G, et alSerum prostate-specific antigen but not testosterone levels decrease in a randomized soy intervention among men . Eur J Clin Nutr. (2006)

yeah coconut milk is pretty high in fat im pretty sure but it does taste good. my precious test levels
haha should be all good, ill try ease off on it a little if i can or find another alternative, thanks for the advice.

 

[kboxer7]

yeah coconut milk is pretty high in fat im pretty sure but it does taste good. my precious test levels
haha should be all good, ill try ease off on it a little if i can or find another alternative, thanks for the advice.

No prob man. btw, brands such as "Silk Coconut Milk" have about 5g of fat per serving which is comparable to 2% dairy milk. Honestly if you look at the research I posted, a few cups of soy milk a day isn't gonna make a difference.

For me personally, I do like to optimize everything, so I limit soy quite a bit. The way I see it, even though soy won't make a difference on its own, there are so many environmental factors that have been proven to be affecting testosterone in males that I'm more concerned about the "cummulative" effect.

Men’s testosterone levels across all age groups have been plummeting over the last couple of decades and it is largely thought that environmental factors are the cause. As an example, a a 65-year-old man in 2002 would have testosterone levels 15 percent lower than those of a 65-year-old in 1987.

If interested look into the following as causes of lower T across the population:
- chlorpyrifos
- Carbaryl
- Phthalates
- heavy metals in general
- exposure to benzenes, toluene, xylene, herbicides, pesticides, organic solvents, painting materials

The list goes on....

 

[anabolix]

I dumped soy milk a long time ago because of all the estrogen issues. Not worth it. I now use mostly almond milk, but also use coconut and cashew milk.

 

[KillIt]

i have read a fair few articles that have mixed evidence and opinions on the issue. soy has been shown to have a few pros and cons, for eg. helping to prevent heart disease but is also linked to promoting eostrogen. some people think its a good addition to your diet whilst others wouldn't go near it.
i personally take up to 1-1.5L litres soy milk per day since i am allergic to regular milk and eggs. soy enables me to hit my protein target as its cheap and easy, but i also dont want soy to be raise my eostrogen levels abnormally.
what do you think of soy? is the amount im taking too much? and if i continue to take 1-1.5L per day would an eostrogen blocker maybe be a possible solution?

anyhow hopefully i dont grow a vagina anytime soon and sorry if this topic has already been discussed before

thanks

I'm the same way, I have a lactose intolerance. The estrogen is so miniscule, I have no side effects. Ive been doing it for years. Also I could suggest lactose enzymes, they digest the dairyby giving your body the enzyme your pancreas lacks to secrete during digestion. Also if you really want you could take an anti estrogen if it really came down to it. But I personally use the lacase enzymes I get 500 for 20 dollars, and I personally enjoy milk more

 

[kboxer7]

I'm the same way, I have a lactose intolerance. The estrogen is so miniscule, I have no side effects. Ive been doing it for years. Also I could suggest lactose enzymes, they digest the dairyby giving your body the enzyme your pancreas lacks to secrete during digestion. Also if you really want you could take an anti estrogen if it really came down to it. But I personally use the lacase enzymes I get 500 for 20 dollars, and I personally enjoy milk more

Have you tried the new Fairlife brand milk? It has NO LACTOSE, 1/2 the sugar and fat as normal milk, AND 2x the Protein. Granted it is a tad expensive, but I love it.

It is REAL MILK, they just filter out the lactose and extra sugars/fats.

 

[KillIt]

No I've never heard of it but I'll have to try it thanks man!

 

[Blergs]

dont make your diet over 50% soya and i wouldent worry much. its good for you IMO. I use it almost daily, but not in big amounts. i would be more worried about eating canned food or other things with crap in it that disrupt hormones.

 

[BCseacow83]

While almond milk and coconut are nice substitutions the OP I believe is using the soy milk as a source of protein which those two will not supply. There are plenty of non soy non dairy/egg protein powders out there now that you could also use OP.

 

[vujade]

From personal experience i would say that soy definitely raises estrogen.

Me and my Ex were eating a lot of soy products when we were still together. She
was taking in even more then i was. At the time, we though it was the healthy way
to go. 2 things occurred. She started to get these red bumps all over her chest,
and the doctor told her these came from high estrogen levels.

I on the other hand, started to get bloated, additional fat on my chest and i started to lose my libido.

Moral of the story. I don't eat soy products any longer. Except maybe soy sauce occasionally,

 

[digitalpimp]

Not a fan at all. My girlfriend is Seventh Day Adventist and almost all of them are vegetarians. Most of them get a lot of their protein from Soy products and it just seems like so many of them have tons of allergies and health issues even though they try to live a fairly healthy lifestyle. Just my 2 cents

 

[anabolicanth]

No prob man. btw, brands such as "Silk Coconut Milk" have about 5g of fat per serving which is comparable to 2% dairy milk. Honestly if you look at the research I posted, a few cups of soy milk a day isn't gonna make a difference.

For me personally, I do like to optimize everything, so I limit soy quite a bit. The way I see it, even though soy won't make a difference on its own, there are so many environmental factors that have been proven to be affecting testosterone in males that I'm more concerned about the "cummulative" effect.

Men’s testosterone levels across all age groups have been plummeting over the last couple of decades and it is largely thought that environmental factors are the cause. As an example, a a 65-year-old man in 2002 would have testosterone levels 15 percent lower than those of a 65-year-old in 1987.

If interested look into the following as causes of lower T across the population:
- chlorpyrifos
- Carbaryl
- Phthalates
- heavy metals in general
- exposure to benzenes, toluene, xylene, herbicides, pesticides, organic solvents, painting materials

The list goes on....

thats nuts, i was unaware of the dropping test rates, hopefully all of us in the forum can keep our test levels higher than the rest of the population! but some of what you listed seems quite difficult to avoid haha

 

[anabolicanth]

I dumped soy milk a long time ago because of all the estrogen issues. Not worth it. I now use mostly almond milk, but also use coconut and cashew milk.

yeah thats fair enough, ill have to give almond milk another try. dont think i enjoyed it too much the first time hahah. oat milk is meant to be okay aswell i think

 

[anabolicanth]

While almond milk and coconut are nice substitutions the OP I believe is using the soy milk as a source of protein which those two will not supply. There are plenty of non soy non dairy/egg protein powders out there now that you could also use OP.

yeah the other milks dont compare as well when it comes to protein, i use a different source of protein for protein shakes but i have soy milk with breakfast and other meals occaisionally.

 

[anabolicanth]

From personal experience i would say that soy definitely raises estrogen.

Me and my Ex were eating a lot of soy products when we were still together. She
was taking in even more then i was. At the time, we though it was the healthy way
to go. 2 things occurred. She started to get these red bumps all over her chest,
and the doctor told her these came from high estrogen levels.

I on the other hand, started to get bloated, additional fat on my chest and i started to lose my libido.

Moral of the story. I don't eat soy products any longer. Except maybe soy sauce occasionally,

thats crazy how much were you having though? i dont feel like my soy intake has affected me at all yet but thats because i dont know any better. have had it since i was little. thanks though i will try and avoid it when possible

 

[anabolicanth]

I'm the same way, I have a lactose intolerance. The estrogen is so miniscule, I have no side effects. Ive been doing it for years. Also I could suggest lactose enzymes, they digest the dairyby giving your body the enzyme your pancreas lacks to secrete during digestion. Also if you really want you could take an anti estrogen if it really came down to it. But I personally use the lacase enzymes I get 500 for 20 dollars, and I personally enjoy milk more

yeah it sucks, im not lactose im allergic to it, i was waiting to grow out of the allergy but never happened. do you think an anti eostrogen would be a reasonable route to take?

 

[anabolicanth]

dont make your diet over 50% soya and i wouldent worry much. its good for you IMO. I use it almost daily, but not in big amounts. i would be more worried about eating canned food or other things with crap in it that disrupt hormones.

it is generally seen to be healthy amongst the wider population but a no go zone for bodybuilders hahah

 

[heavylifter33]

People still believe that soy effects estrogen to a point at which it produces a noticeable change? lol

 

[BCseacow83]

If you are that concerned and only using it with a couple meals a day. I would simply eat more of the protein part of the meal if you are that concerned.

 

[luelinks]

How much soy products are you guys using that it is giving you estrogen issues?

 

[KillIt]

yeah it sucks, im not lactose im allergic to it, i was waiting to grow out of the allergy but never happened. do you think an anti eostrogen would be a reasonable route to take?

Asmall amount once a week should do it, your not currently cycling are you?

 

[anabolicanth]

Asmall amount once a week should do it, your not currently cycling are you?

im natural, never cycled

 

[Bodybeast]

Carbmaster milk from Kroger. Best thing ever. 12 g of protein, lactose free, fat free.

 

[ericool007]

A little bit of soy isn't going to do anything even noteworthy but some people act as if soy is pure estrogen and any sides are made up in your head or due to something else.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Carbmaster milk from Kroger. Best thing ever. 12 g of protein, lactose free, fat free.

I guess maybe for poverty macros. Man is it expensive compared to a gallon of 1%. I mean, 4 more grams of protein isn't worth the cost to me (I can add a Tbs of Vanilla protein if I need the 4g), I can fit 13g of carbs, and *some* milk fat is good for you. Other than maybe contest prep, I just don't see how you can't fit 1% milk into your daily intake?

 

[HIT4ME]

Whatever you do, don't eat soy that has been artificially sweetened with something like Splenda. Your health will be ruined foooorrrreeeeevvverrrr.

Sorry - sarcasm on the net.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Whatever you do, don't eat soy that has been artificially sweetened with something like Splenda. Your health will be ruined foooorrrreeeeevvverrrr.

Sorry - sarcasm on the net.

Or at least be sure to run a proper PCT or just cycle off of it every other week.