Exotherm or Letrone?

Shin Sprints

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I have 2xExotherm and 2xLetron.

I am just planning my stack...keeping it simple...

1xViron pre-workout, 1xViron pre-bed
1xLaxacrine post-workout, 0.5xLaxacrine evening application

So, should I use Exotherm or Letorne to add to this stack...will be starting next Monday, and it will bridge final 2 weeks of ABE and Follidrone stack.

Recomp is goal for next 12 weeks...but if I could shift the final bit of stubborn fat that would be great...(I would say 10ish %, visible abs but some lower ab and kidney fat, i.e,, the stubborn sh!t).

My understanding is Letrone better for recomp and Exotherm better for fat loss.

So if it were you...what would you go with?

Thanks.
 
abformulations

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I'll do 4 weeks letrone with viron then go to exo for another 4-8 weeks along side viron.

I'll add follidrone for all 12 weeks. Great addition. Don't run it just for 4 weeks.
 

kisaj

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I agree with halfhuman. I'd definitely run the exotherm at the latter half of your run because it will shred any lingering bf. Also, folli really starts to shine in 3-4 weeks, so you will want to run it for at least 8 weeks to see full benefits.
 

Shin Sprints

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I'll do 4 weeks letrone with viron then go to exo for another 4-8 weeks along side viron.

I'll add follidrone for all 12 weeks. Great addition. Don't run it just for 4 weeks.
Okay, will do this then!

1x or 2x Letrone?

I can't do 12 weeks of Folli, I am 5 weeks into 8 weeks of it already.

I think I should take 4 weeks off. Maybe add in for weeks 4-12 when doing the Exotherm?
 
abformulations

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Okay, will do this then!

1x or 2x Letrone?

I can't do 12 weeks of Folli, I am 5 weeks into 8 weeks of it already.

I think I should take 4 weeks off. Maybe add in for weeks 4-12 when doing the Exotherm?
Depends how much you want to crush estro. But IMO the way you running it I would do 1 letrone. Follidrone can be ran indefinitely, so no worries there. Has many great health benefits as well.
 

Shin Sprints

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Depends how much you want to crush estro. But IMO the way you running it I would do 1 letrone. Follidrone can be ran indefinitely, so no worries there. Has many great health benefits as well.
You sure it is cool indefinitely? :)
 
LeanEngineer

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Yea I'd do letrone then get shredded with exotherm. I actually just ordered both of them from strong supplement shop
 
kboxer7

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I'm running Letrone with ActivateXtreme, boron, EpiPlex. Have Letrone at 2 per day right now and no signs of low E just yet @ exactly 1 week in.
 

Shin Sprints

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I'm running Letrone with ActivateXtreme, boron, EpiPlex. Have Letrone at 2 per day right now and no signs of low E just yet @ exactly 1 week in.
What would a sign of low E be?

Thanks.
 
kboxer7

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What would a sign of low E be?

Thanks.
Low libido/trouble getting it up, joint pain, possible lethargy.

I normally dry/lean out more than this when I crush E (granted this is subjective to an extent)...but its also only been 7 days in so I'm not worried. If I don't dry out after another 2-3 weeks then there might be a problem : )
 

Shin Sprints

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So I started Letrone and Viron along with keeping (-)epi for another 8 weeks.

Typical lead in to Let to notice things?

What should I expect to see?

I will take 2xLeth and 2xViron, 1xpre, 1bedtime.

Thanks.
 
brundel

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I agree with everyone. Letrone first and then bridge into the Exotherm. You may not experience negative side effects like low libido.
Only a few testers had issues and it was being used with no other products. I think the addition of Viron will help prevent any sides as it releases estrogens and increases test.
Most notice some effects within a week or 2 but everyone is different. Loss of water weight is a common first effect but again the viron may counter this.
As with anything use the supps as a tool. They work very well but this doesnt mean let them do everything. If your cutting then reduce cals and reduce carbs and increase cardio etc. If bulking EAT EAT EAT.
This way the normal response your body has to this stimuli will be multiplied and your results will be amazing.
 

Shin Sprints

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I agree with everyone. Letrone first and then bridge into the Exotherm. You may not experience negative side effects like low libido.
Only a few testers had issues and it was being used with no other products. I think the addition of Viron will help prevent any sides as it releases estrogens and increases test.
Most notice some effects within a week or 2 but everyone is different. Loss of water weight is a common first effect but again the viron may counter this.
As with anything use the supps as a tool. They work very well but this doesnt mean let them do everything. If your cutting then reduce cals and reduce carbs and increase cardio etc. If bulking EAT EAT EAT.
This way the normal response your body has to this stimuli will be multiplied and your results will be amazing.
I have been recomping pretty well the last 8 weeks so it would be nice to continue that progress.

I am probably 11% bf, strength is pretty good and staying stable so probably will just keep to diet and training as it...not expecting miracles but some help from the supplements would be nice :)
 

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I won't do an online log but I will probably periodically keep updated on any progress. I have current pics as baseline for next 12 weeks.
 
kboxer7

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So I started Letrone and Viron along with keeping (-)epi for another 8 weeks.

Typical lead in to Let to notice things?

What should I expect to see?

I will take 2xLeth and 2xViron, 1xpre, 1bedtime.

Thanks.
My stack is similar but a little different. I noticed nothing till about the 2 week mark. Slightly better vascularity, increase in libido. Performance wise not a lot to note. tbh I feel like I've lost some endurance since being off of PA. Once off PA I started this stack.

Typically I expect natural test boosters to take 2-3 weeks to notice anything so I'm trending in the right direction based on previous stacks to compare.

That's about it for now. Here is what I'm running below so you can make what comparisons you will:

ActivateXtreme (2caps x 2 daily)
Boron (9mg)
ZMA (standard dose)
2x Letrone (1am, 1pm both with my doses of ActivateXtreme)
600mg (-)epi split into 2 doses daily (not BLR, sorry Brundel haha...grabbed a good sale on EpiPlex)
*so far I'm not getting any extra endurance from the (-)epi

brundel - Do you think it would be beneficial to add in Reversitol V2 from iForce? I still have 1 old bottle laying around that I could pop into the mix. I know its not the best product but it is on hand from a freebie way way back.
 

Shin Sprints

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My stack is similar but a little different. I noticed nothing till about the 2 week mark. Slightly better vascularity, increase in libido. Performance wise not a lot to note. tbh I feel like I've lost some endurance since being off of PA. Once off PA I started this stack.

Typically I expect natural test boosters to take 2-3 weeks to notice anything so I'm trending in the right direction based on previous stacks to compare.

That's about it for now. Here is what I'm running below so you can make what comparisons you will:

ActivateXtreme (2caps x 2 daily)
Boron (9mg)
ZMA (standard dose)
2x Letrone (1am, 1pm both with my doses of ActivateXtreme)
600mg (-)epi split into 2 doses daily (not BLR, sorry Brundel haha...grabbed a good sale on EpiPlex)
*so far I'm not getting any extra endurance from the (-)epi

brundel - Do you think it would be beneficial to add in Reversitol V2 from iForce? I still have 1 old bottle laying around that I could pop into the mix. I know its not the best product but it is on hand from a freebie way way back.
Good info, thanks.

I have some Fearn PA sitting at home but decided to take some time off it. I might add it in weeks 4-12.
 
kboxer7

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Good info, thanks.

I have some Fearn PA sitting at home but decided to take some time off it. I might add it in weeks 4-12.
Could you let me know if you also get a drop in endurance from taking time off PA? I didn't expect for it to be this noticeable at all but I've been feeling it these last couple weeks now. Not even the (-)epi has helped. Might bump up the (-)epi dose soon.
 

Shin Sprints

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Could you let me know if you also get a drop in endurance from taking time off PA? I didn't expect for it to be this noticeable at all but I've been feeling it these last couple weeks now. Not even the (-)epi has helped. Might bump up the (-)epi dose soon.
I have been off it about 4 weeks and I can't say I have noticed any endurance drop off. I am still taking Follidrone so maybe that has covered up a drop off in endurance.

All in all my recovery is really good and I hit the weights pretty hard and do extra cardio sessions during lunch hour.

I take E9, beta-alanine and citruline malate too which are all good for endurance and recovery.
 

Shin Sprints

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Quick question...anyone suffer disruption of sleep taking Viron and Latrone before bed?

I haven't been able to get to sleep the last three nights which coincides with the starting of Viron and a second dosing of Letrone.

Thanks.
 
brundel

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My stack is similar but a little different. I noticed nothing till about the 2 week mark. Slightly better vascularity, increase in libido. Performance wise not a lot to note. tbh I feel like I've lost some endurance since being off of PA. Once off PA I started this stack.

Typically I expect natural test boosters to take 2-3 weeks to notice anything so I'm trending in the right direction based on previous stacks to compare.

That's about it for now. Here is what I'm running below so you can make what comparisons you will:

ActivateXtreme (2caps x 2 daily)
Boron (9mg)
ZMA (standard dose)
2x Letrone (1am, 1pm both with my doses of ActivateXtreme)
600mg (-)epi split into 2 doses daily (not BLR, sorry Brundel haha...grabbed a good sale on EpiPlex)
*so far I'm not getting any extra endurance from the (-)epi

brundel - Do you think it would be beneficial to add in Reversitol V2 from iForce? I still have 1 old bottle laying around that I could pop into the mix. I know its not the best product but it is on hand from a freebie way way back.

I dont think the Rv2 will hurt but I dont think it will be super beneficial either. I believe Ic3 can be antiandrogenic as well. Id have to look but pretty sure.
Not ideal when your stack is hinging heavily on increased endocrine function.
 
brundel

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Quick question...anyone suffer disruption of sleep taking Viron and Latrone before bed?

I haven't been able to get to sleep the last three nights which coincides with the starting of Viron and a second dosing of Letrone.

Thanks.
The Viron might be doing this. Our tongkat extract is very strong and can be stimulating. Take the last dose no later than around 6pm and you should be fine.
 

Shin Sprints

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The Viron might be doing this. Our tongkat extract is very strong and can be stimulating. Take the last dose no later than around 6pm and you should be fine.
Okay, will try the 6pm dosing...that will be nearly 12 hours after initial dosing anyway. Will dose the Letrone at the same time to keep things simple.

I am guessing both these can be dosed on empty stomach? Just depends on when I eat but a lot of time I am not eating at 6pm.

Thanks.
 

kisaj

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I can't take it after 4pm or my sleep is light. It is really stimulating for me.
 

Shin Sprints

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I can't take it after 4pm or my sleep is light. It is really stimulating for me.
I have very high stim tolerance and don't feel specially anything from the Viron but it could well be stimulating without me feeling it.

I will try the earlier dosing and see how that goes.
 
ahh123

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I can't take it after 4pm or my sleep is light. It is really stimulating for me.
Same for me - I try to take 2nd cap of Viron at least 8h before I go to sleep but usually 1 cap first thing in the morning is enough for me.
 

Shin Sprints

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Another question, any reported effects of Latrone increasing hunger?

I am taking it 8 days and the last 3 or 4 days I have been very hungry and eating more than what I have been the last number of months.

I don't think it is the Viron as I have taken Viron before and haven't noticed this effect before.

Thanks.
 
kboxer7

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Another question, any reported effects of Latrone increasing hunger?

I am taking it 8 days and the last 3 or 4 days I have been very hungry and eating more than what I have been the last number of months.

I don't think it is the Viron as I have taken Viron before and haven't noticed this effect before.

Thanks.
Yes sir.

Atractylodes macrocephala potentiates Ghrelin secretion and receptor signaling. Ghrelin increases hunger and Growth hormone secretion.

Additionally I"ve seen anecdotal reports of increased hunger. I don't get that side effect all the time but I've noticed some hunger cravings that have come out of nowhere on occasion while on this.
 
3pic_B3ast

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Definitely feel more hungry. Thought it might be the Letrone. Good to know others have felt the same thing. This could definitely confirm its affects on GH.
 

Shin Sprints

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Yes sir.

Atractylodes macrocephala potentiates Ghrelin secretion and receptor signaling. Ghrelin increases hunger and Growth hormone secretion.

Additionally I"ve seen anecdotal reports of increased hunger. I don't get that side effect all the time but I've noticed some hunger cravings that have come out of nowhere on occasion while on this.
Good to know it is not just in me head, haha.

Not sure it is what I want on recomp but on going to take for 4 weeks before bridging into Exotherm.

To be honest I feel a little "flabby" the last few days but I know that changes week to week so not too conscious of that.
 
zpalrangi13

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Can some1 fill me in on what the stuff is? I want to start a cycle, I'm bulking what should I get??
 
brundel

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Can some1 fill me in on what the stuff is? I want to start a cycle, I'm bulking what should I get??
Here is a link to the Letrone FAQ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/black-lion-research/270129-letrone-faq.html
Its a very solid AI/aromatase inhibitor but it also has some very interesting additional properties such as raising HGH and igf-1, t3,t4 cAMP and Ghrelin.
The increase in HGH and Ghrelin is what causes the hunger as Ghrelin is the hunger hormone. Thia makes it great for multipurpose use.
Good for cutting because its an AI and raises testosterone, HGH igf1 and thyroid function although you might be a bit hungry ;)
Also great for bulking though because of the above mentioned effects and the added hunger.
Several of our testers went from a cut into a bulk and stayed on the Letrone and it really seems to help with not only eating enough but keeping the fat accumulation lower than normal.
 

Shin Sprints

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Any known sides from Viron or Latrone with regards to hard or "erect" nipples?

On both at 2x for two weeks, start of third week today. Noticed more pronounced nipples on Saturday, they aren't itchy or sore but definitely more sensitive when pressed in.

Thanks.
 

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