How much leucine in PES select

[Machmood]

I was looking to buy PES Select and it doesn't say on the jug or label how many grams of added leucine per scoop. Any someone answer this for me. Thank you

 

[deicide]

that is probly a guarded secret, but i would email them direct and ask. pescience.com/contacts

 

[LeanEngineer]

A pes rep might chime in and know.

 

[Synapsin]

Can't disclose because we added leucine peptides as well to what would already be available from MPI and WPC.

 

[Jiigzz]

Itd be enough added leucine to contribute a decent amount to total leucine.

I quoted you but it randomly quoted someone not in this thread

 

[Machmood]

Thank you for the quick response.
To be honest I'm alittle curious why you don't just say how much leucine is added. It makes it seem like your hiding something(not an assusation) My goal is to ad 4-5g leucine to my post workout protein so wanted to buy PES SELECT. You may be adding 5g of leucine, and you may be adding 500mg. You guys put together a great product and have an extensive write up but then don't say how much leucine is added, seems strange. I will most likely just buy raw leucine and add it to my current protein so I know exactly what I'm paying for

 

[Jiigzz]

Thank you for the quick response.
To be honest I'm alittle curious why you don't just say how much leucine is added. It makes it seem like your hiding something(not an assusation) My goal is to ad 4-5g leucine to my post workout protein so wanted to buy PES SELECT. You may be adding 5g of leucine, and you may be adding 500mg. You guys put together a great product and have an extensive write up but then don't say how much leucine is added, seems strange. I will most likely just buy raw leucine and add it to my current protein so I know exactly what I'm paying for

Whey contains leucine as is, so adding 5g on top of that will be a waste. You would only need an extra 500mg - 1g or so to reap the full benefits, which Select would undoubtedly have

 

[kbayne]

Thank you for the quick response.
To be honest I'm alittle curious why you don't just say how much leucine is added. It makes it seem like your hiding something(not an assusation) My goal is to ad 4-5g leucine to my post workout protein so wanted to buy PES SELECT. You may be adding 5g of leucine, and you may be adding 500mg. You guys put together a great product and have an extensive write up but then don't say how much leucine is added, seems strange. I will most likely just buy raw leucine and add it to my current protein so I know exactly what I'm paying for

Adding 4-5 grams of extra leucine to Select would be a waste as you will be reaching and maximizing protein synthesis threshold.

 

[Machmood]

I've read multiple studies where 1.5g , 3g, and 6g was added to 25g of whey and the 6g had a greater impact than the lesser amounts. I believe 48g protein has 3g leucine? So adding 3-5g to that I believe would have an impact

 

[Jiigzz]

I've read multiple studies where 1.5g , 3g, and 6g was added to 25g of whey and the 6g had a greater impact than the lesser amounts. I believe 48g protein has 3g leucine? So adding 3-5g to that I believe would have an impact

Intriguing. I dont tend to keep up with leucine/ protein studies. Care to share a link if you have one?

 

[kbayne]

I've read multiple studies where 1.5g , 3g, and 6g was added to 25g of whey and the 6g had a greater impact than the lesser amounts. I believe 48g protein has 3g leucine? So adding 3-5g to that I believe would have an impact

3-5 grams of Leucine itself will maximize protein synthesis.

I've seen a study done on 20 grams of whey and 6.2 grams of leucine, but they did not compare that to a different dose of say 20 grams of whey and 3 grams of leucine, which could have had the same effect.

So it would be interesting if they put up the 20 grams of whey + 6.2 grams of leucine against say 20 grams of whey and 3 grams of protein or 25 grams of whey and 1 gram of leucine.

 

[aaronuconn]

I've read multiple studies where 1.5g , 3g, and 6g was added to 25g of whey and the 6g had a greater impact than the lesser amounts. I believe 48g protein has 3g leucine? So adding 3-5g to that I believe would have an impact

48g of quality protein powder will have more than 3g of leucine.

 

[Jiigzz]

48g of quality protein powder will have more than 3g of leucine.

Didn't catch this, but yeah it definitely should if it is just protein powder with no fillers lol

 

[heavylifter33]

I was looking to buy PES Select and it doesn't say on the jug or label how many grams of added leucine per scoop. Any someone answer this for me. Thank you

i see no reason to care how much added leucine is in there.

 

[Synapsin]

Itd be enough added leucine to contribute a decent amount to total leucine.

I quoted you but it randomly quoted someone not in this thread

Thank you for the quick response.
To be honest I'm alittle curious why you don't just say how much leucine is added. It makes it seem like your hiding something(not an assusation) My goal is to ad 4-5g leucine to my post workout protein so wanted to buy PES SELECT. You may be adding 5g of leucine, and you may be adding 500mg. You guys put together a great product and have an extensive write up but then don't say how much leucine is added, seems strange. I will most likely just buy raw leucine and add it to my current protein so I know exactly what I'm paying for

It is essentially what Jiigzz said. The important take home message is it already contains leucine naturally from MPI and WPC (Select is filler free as well), and it contains even more than straight protein products that don't add additional leucine because of the leucine peptides; it already has more leucine than other protein products. Based on that premise, we are not really hiding anything. You can certainly add more leucine if you feel it is necessary/ beneficial.

 

[johnnyp]

Thank you for the quick response.
To be honest I'm alittle curious why you don't just say how much leucine is added. It makes it seem like your hiding something(not an assusation) My goal is to ad 4-5g leucine to my post workout protein so wanted to buy PES SELECT. You may be adding 5g of leucine, and you may be adding 500mg. You guys put together a great product and have an extensive write up but then don't say how much leucine is added, seems strange. I will most likely just buy raw leucine and add it to my current protein so I know exactly what I'm paying for

There was a test done to show how much protein is in select (stack3d.com/2014/11/pes-select-stack3d-certified.html) if it helps remove any doubts.

 

[bdcc]

There was a test done to show how much protein is in select (stack3d.com/2014/11/pes-select-stack3d-certified.html) if it helps remove any doubts.

This was awesome because they purchased it from a retailer rather than us supplying them with a tub.

The problem with making test results public is a lot of people don't understand them and it can actually deter people from trying the product (I know how crazy this sounds).

For example, that test shows that Select contained marginally more protein than listed on the label and it was free from amino fillers. For you guys you know how awesome this is as cutting corners with protein powders is increasingly common.

However, we genuinely received complaints from people who saw the test and thought this meant it had no amino acid content whatsoever i.e. they confused them testing for free form amino acids with testing for amino content within whey.

So they thought our protein powder had zero protein, despite the fact that the same test showed total protein content.

I kid you not.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Informing intelligent people is always better than protecting idiots from themselves.

 

[anabolix]

It is essentially what Jiigzz said. The important take home message is it already contains leucine naturally from MPI and WPC (Select is filler free as well), and it contains even more than straight protein products that don't add additional leucine because of the leucine peptides; it already has more leucine than other protein products. Based on that premise, we are not really hiding anything.

My pet peeve is "proprietary" blends. Some of us like to actually know how much of something we are putting in our bodies..and these blends are just plain deceptive, sorry. No offense to pes, but if a manufacturer refuses to list the amount of its ingredients in the product aka proprietary blend, then it shouldn't be blindly trusted and ingested. There are several reasons for doing this, and honest disclosure isnt one of them. When a company hides their ingredients under the banner of a proprietary blend, its any ones guess as to the their true intent in doing so. Whether they are being dishonest or not, is anybody's guess.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I'm one of the biggest "Anti-Prop Blend" people on here. While I do agree that keeping the Leucine content a "secret" is BS, and can speculate why - if I could afford it, I'd have no problem relying on Select. Pro-Jym doesn't list Leucine either, and that labeling is the most transparent I've seen - actually listing grams of each protein type. Since they won't disclose how much, assume it's not in multi-gram amounts (speculation), and just get a few pounds of bulk Leucine from SNS for cheap and add it. 8oz of 1% Milk has almost 1g of Leucine, BTW

 

[Jiigzz]

My pet peeve is "proprietary" blends. Some of us like to actually know how much of something we are putting in our bodies..and these blends are just plain deceptive, sorry. No offense to pes, but if a manufacturer refuses to list the amount of its ingredients in the product aka proprietary blend, then it shouldn't be blindly trusted and ingested. There are several reasons for doing this, and honest disclosure isnt one of them. When a company hides their ingredients under the banner of a proprietary blend, its any ones guess as to the their true intent in doing so. Whether they are being dishonest or not, is anybody's guess.

So if you spent thousands of hours on R&D, created a unique product or had a unique combination of ingredients, then disclosing that so someone with a bigger marketing budget than you can create the same (but spend no money on R&D) but get more sales from it, you wouldn't mind? It's bull to think they are being dishonest when 99% of the consumers care less about whats inside, but more what the label looks like. The company hides to protect an investment, pure and simple.

If something had a prop blend on 1000mg and had creatine listed first and caffeine listed last and the total amount of ingredients was 100, you'd KNOW that the product was underdosed. Just use basic math skills to deduce for yourself rather than going around calling company's dishonest

Does it ever occur to anyone that MOST food products have prop blends and even go so far as to add in lots of different forms of the same thing so that guessing the total amount is even harder? The next time you open a packet of biscuits, just think that that company is lying to you!

 

[anabolix]

So if you spent thousands of hours on R&D, created a unique product or had a unique combination of ingredients, then disclosing that so someone with a bigger marketing budget than you can create the same (but spend no money on R&D) but get more sales from it, you wouldn't mind? It's bull to think they are being dishonest when 99% of the consumers care less about whats inside, but more what the label looks like. The company hides to protect an investment, pure and simple.

If something had a prop blend on 1000mg and had creatine listed first and caffeine listed last and the total amount of ingredients was 100, you'd KNOW that the product was underdosed. Just use basic math skills to deduce for yourself rather than going around calling company's dishonest

Does it ever occur to anyone that MOST food products have prop blends and even go so far as to add in lots of different forms of the same thing so that guessing the total amount is even harder? The next time you open a packet of biscuits, just think that that company is lying to you!

No need to be upset just because some people actually care about what and how much they are putting into their bodies. I dont think you are right about 99% of people not carring what is in something they are taking..thats just crazy. Some people do prop blends to protect their investment and some to conceal things. As a customer we can only guess as to which case it is. My college math skills never told me how much leucine this stuff has and neither did you, so its just a guess..which some of us don't like to do. You basically saying that its enough, so dont worry about it is pretty self seeking advice. Im actually not too concerned that there isnt enough leucine in this. Im just letting you know how some customers view prop blends. Using the argument that some food labels make it hard to know what your getting, isnt a comforting one. Im all in support of labeling gmo food, as well as discouraging intentionally difficult to interpret food labels. Sounds like you create prop blends for money reasons, and unfortunately you aren't alone. If the label was made with the consumer in mind, as opposed to money, there wouldnt be any prob blends, period. Im not shaming you and do think you guys have some quality supplements. Just giving you an opposing, customer orientated opinion of prob blends.

 

[Jiigzz]

No need to be upset just because some people actually care about what and how much they are putting into their bodies. I dont think you are right about 99% of people not carring what is in something they are taking..thats just crazy. Some people do prop blends to protect their investment and some to conceal things. As a customer we can only guess as to which case it is. My college math skills never told me how much leucine this stuff has and neither did you, so its just a guess..which some of us don't like to do. You basically saying that its enough, so dont worry about it is pretty self seeking advice. Im actually not too concerned that there isnt enough leucine in this. Im just letting you know how some customers view prop blends. Using the argument that some food labels make it hard to know what your getting, isnt a comforting one. Im all in support of labeling gmo food, as well as discouraging intentionally difficult to interpret food labels. Sounds like you create prop blends for money reasons, and unfortunately you aren't alone. If the label was made with the consumer in mind, as opposed to money, there wouldnt be any prob blends, period. Im not shaming you and do think you guys have some quality supplements. Just giving you an opposing, customer orientated opinion of prob blends.

Go ask people in your gym what doses and ingredients are in their pre workout. I encourage you to do this. I guarantee most will have zero clue. They buy based in label looks and referals from friends and other gym bros.

If you know the correct dosages yourself, its not hard to deduce how large the prop blend needs to be to adequetly dose ingredients. If creatine sits below caffeine, you know either the caffeine is dosed far too high or creatine far too low.

If you had any idea how much it costs to research/ develop a product and finding the optimal dose of that ingredient (and then test that ingredient) then you might actually begin to understand the place of the prop blend. After spending all that time and money on development and then disclosing the doses, you essentially save them the cost of researching it for themselves.

The next time you sit an exam, give your answers to the guy next to you. You do all the work, they reap all the benefits

Fwiw I can see it from your point of view, I too like to know how much I take of something, but I also see the need for investment protection. Double edge sword

 

[anabolix]

Go ask people in your gym what doses and ingredients are in their pre workout. I encourage you to do this. I guarantee most will have zero clue. They buy based in label looks and referals from friends and other gym bros.

If you know the correct dosages yourself, its not hard to deduce how large the prop blend needs to be to adequetly dose ingredients. If creatine sits below caffeine, you know either the caffeine is dosed far too high or creatine far too low.

If you had any idea how much it costs to research/ develop a product and finding the optimal dose of that ingredient (and then test that ingredient) then you might actually begin to understand the place of the prop blend. After spending all that time and money on development and then disclosing the doses, you essentially save them the cost of researching it for themselves.

The next time you sit an exam, give your answers to the guy next to you. You do all the work, they reap all the benefits

Fwiw I can see it from your point of view, I too like to know how much I take of something, but I also see the need for investment protection. Double edge sword

I can agree with the last paragraph . I understand you are trying to protect your investment, and i get that. I really do. That said, i hate prop blends and stories about others not caring whats in their pre workout, or suggestions about how to make an educated guess as to the amount of ingredients in a prob blend doesn't change my mind. Regardless of your need to protect yourself, which i do totally understand, prob blends are just metaphorical "curtains" and work against a consumer who knows how much of what nutrient they are trying to obtain. I see no need in asking people at my gym if they know how much of what they are taking. What will that prove lol? For that matter, i can go around asking who people voted for in the election and then ask for examples of their policies and hear..crickets. Just because some people dont care to know what theyre buying and just look for a cool label, does not mean those people are making a smart decision or that others should follow suit. To summarize, i understand why prop blends are used by some and dont fault anyone for trying to protect themselves..but still hate pb's for hiding the ingredients that myself as a consumer, is trying to find.

 

[Jiigzz]

I can agree with the last paragraph . I understand you are trying to protect your investment, and i get that. I really do. That said, i hate prop blends and stories about others not caring whats in their pre workout, or suggestions about how to make an educated guess as to the amount of ingredients in a prob blend doesn't change my mind. Regardless of your need to protect yourself, which i do totally understand, prob blends are just metaphorical "curtains" and work against a consumer who knows how much of what nutrient they are trying to obtain. I see no need in asking people at my gym if they know how much of what they are taking. What will that prove lol? For that matter, i can go around asking who people voted for in the election and then ask for examples of their policies and hear..crickets. Just because some people dont care to know what theyre buying and just look for a cool label, does not mean those people are making a smart decision or that others should follow suit. To summarize, i understand why prop blends are used by some and dont fault anyone for trying to protect themselves..but still hate pb's for hiding the ingredients that myself as a consumer, is trying to find.

Fair points. Figured id point it out from a business side as opposed to a consumer side though

 

[The_Old_Guy]

So if you spent thousands of hours on R&D, created a unique product or had a unique combination of ingredients, then disclosing that so ....

Nooooooooooo Jiigzz... Nooooooooooooo! Lets not perpetuate this myth again Lab analysis can tell all.

 

[Jiigzz]

Nooooooooooo Jiigzz... Nooooooooooooo! Lets not perpetuate this myth again Lab analysis can tell all.

Perhaps I care too much, lol. But I hate it when companies are called shady or greedy by protecting something they work hard to produce. Some of our products take months to develop, if we were to disclose everything and it be stolen in 5 minutes, all that time, effort and money is literally gone to waste.

Think of it this way - companies will all follow some sort of process. A new ingredient that has basically zero clinical studies takes a long time to work out a dose for. People can spend AGES sorting through research, findig out how it works, degree of efficacy, absorption, transporters, how to enhance it, extracts etc etc. Then spend a long time finding a source, in house testing that extract solo or with other ingredients together, adjusting dose etc.

After they have developed what they consider an optimal cost:return/benefit for the entire product they will start to produce it.

All of this takes time ( a few months or longer). Now imagine if someine handed you a cheat sheet and gave you all the answers placed neatly on the back of a bottle. You would eliminate much of that process and just find a source of each ingredient, effectively stealing in a few weeks something that could have taken a year to develop.

Also a typical non prop blended product is typically one where the ingredient dosages are common knolwedge. Creatine, Citrulline etc not typically unique delivery systems or specific ingredient combinations or new ingredients

 

[rugger48]

It's a protein powder.

 

[schizm]

Also not a fan of prop blends and will normally steer clear of them...but having a certain amount of trust in whatever company with a good track record of products, I don't have a problem picking a prop blend up....PES in this case, I have full trust in their formulas...I mean, fwiw...

 

[Synapsin]

Nooooooooooo Jiigzz... Nooooooooooooo! Lets not perpetuate this myth again Lab analysis can tell all.

Depending on the ingredient, it is not quite that simple, and would cost them thousands of dollars. The people who steal and copy formulas aren't going to spend the money to do that.

 

[T-Bone]

Brings to mind when people come on forums asking to be spoon fed. Asking people to write them a workout tailored for them, write them out a diet....What?. You want me to workout for you too?. The thing is these kind of people are probably going to give up anyway, so it's not worth spoon feeding them. Why should you just give up all your knowledge and experience you've learned over years of trail and error?. When you do that, you de-value your experience in my opinion. You want to make progress?, you are going to have to work for it just like everyone else.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Perhaps I care too much, lol. But I hate it when companies are called shady or greedy by protecting something they work hard to produce. Some of our products take months to develop, if we were to disclose everything and it be stolen in 5 minutes, all that time, effort and money is literally gone to waste.

Think of it this way - companies will all follow some sort of process. A new ingredient that has basically zero clinical studies takes a long time to work out a dose for. People can spend AGES sorting through research, findig out how it works, degree of efficacy, absorption, transporters, how to enhance it, extracts etc etc. Then spend a long time finding a source, in house testing that extract solo or with other ingredients together, adjusting dose etc.

After they have developed what they consider an optimal cost:return/benefit for the entire product they will start to produce it.

All of this takes time ( a few months or longer). Now imagine if someine handed you a cheat sheet and gave you all the answers placed neatly on the back of a bottle. You would eliminate much of that process and just find a source of each ingredient, effectively stealing in a few weeks something that could have taken a year to develop.

Also a typical non prop blended product is typically one where the ingredient dosages are common knolwedge. Creatine, Citrulline etc not typically unique delivery systems or specific ingredient combinations or new ingredients

I've said this before and it still applies - prop blends only hide things from the customer, not protect the "formula"... BUT that doesn't necessarily mean that the the thing being hidden is for nefarious purposes. This was confirmed to me in private, by a board sponsor company head honcho, but it was via PM so it will stay private.

And in this case, we're talking about friggen Leucine. A hundred other companies put the amount on the label in big letters, or at least in an "Amino Acid Profile" panel. It's like asking how much aspartame is in a scoop, LOL.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Depending on the ingredient, it is not quite that simple, and would cost them thousands of dollars. The people who steal and copy formulas aren't going to spend the money to do that.

How "not quite that simple" is it for Leucine Peptides? And thousands? That's it? I was thinking 10's of thousands - which still doesn't sound like a lot for a supp company that's going to produce a product line.

And like I said above, it's friggen Leucine, not the Enigma Machine.

PepForm® - Leucine Peptides, Glanbia Nutritionals

But the stuff is pricey, isn't it? 500g is $85 with a cursory search. Looks like they are also the inventors of HydroMax™ Glycerol as found in Athletix Ergonine.

 

[Jiigzz]

I've said this before and it still applies - prop blends only hide things from the customer, not protect the "formula"... BUT that doesn't necessarily mean that the the thing being hidden is for nefarious purposes. This was confirmed to me in private, by a board sponsor company head honcho, but it was via PM so it will stay private.

And in this case, we're talking about friggen Leucine. A hundred other companies put the amount on the label in big letters, or at least in an "Amino Acid Profile" panel. It's like asking how much aspartame is in a scoop, LOL.

So that company owners word means it applies to everyone? Seems fair

I should also mention that If said head honcho is from a company that uses non prop blends, theyre likely using that as a technique so you trust prop blends even less and ergo, buy from them more because theyre more honest

Its easier for someone to get you to listen if the information they present already confirms your bias (this goes for anyone), and less so for the opposite.

For example, a person starts a thread and says "hi guys, so I know test boosters are bunk but what natural anabolics do you recommend?" Then company rep A could go and say "hey man, youre right that test boosters are bunk (confirming bias) but try our natural anabolic, itl make you grow 10lb in 2 days". The person will trust them more because they share a common viewpoint and confirmed a bias.

It happens everywhere

 

[anabolix]

So that company owners word means it applies to everyone? Seems fair

I should also mention that If said head honcho is from a company that uses non prop blends, theyre likely using that as a technique so you trust prop blends even less and ergo, buy from them more because theyre more honest

Its easier for someone to get you to listen if the information they present already confirms your bias (this goes for anyone), and less so for the opposite.

For example, a person starts a thread and says "hi guys, so I know test boosters are bunk but what natural anabolics do you recommend?" Then company rep A could go and say "hey man, youre right that test boosters are bunk (confirming bias) but try our natural anabolic, itl make you grow 10lb in 2 days". The person will trust them more because they share a common viewpoint and confirmed a bias.

It happens everywhere

I hope this doesn't come across as rude, but none of what you said has any bearing on the FACT that prop blends are designed to hide things(right or wrong). I don't see why you need to try and defend the use of prop blends. It's going to be hard for you to make an argument in favor of a prop blend "to a CONSUMER", as they obviously do us no favors and act to conceal..prob blends are for the company, not the consumer. That said, once again im not condemning pes for doing this as they are not alone. I don't think anyone is judging your motives, just stating an obvious fact about prop blends. I fail to see why you seem to be arguing. The old guy made a good point, it's leucine. Why not help the customer plan for his protein needs, instead of trying to protect the investment as you say? In certain situations I can see more of your point, but disclosing how much leucine is in it probably isn't going to ruin your investment. It would on the other hand, be much appreciated from a consumers point of view.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Thank you for the quick response.
To be honest I'm alittle curious why you don't just say how much leucine is added. It makes it seem like your hiding something(not an assusation) My goal is to ad 4-5g leucine to my post workout protein so wanted to buy PES SELECT. You may be adding 5g of leucine, and you may be adding 500mg. You guys put together a great product and have an extensive write up but then don't say how much leucine is added, seems strange. I will most likely just buy raw leucine and add it to my current protein so I know exactly what I'm paying for

What's strange about this? What would be strange is breaking down all the ingredients in the profile. Have you ever bought a protein that says "Ingredients: MPI - 20g, WPC - 17g, leucine - 5g, glutamine - 3g, glycine - 1g, sweetener - 200mg?" Probably not

 

[mr.cooper69]

I hope this doesn't come across as rude, but none of what you said has any bearing on the FACT that prop blends are designed to hide things(right or wrong). I don't see why you need to try and defend the use of prop blends. It's going to be hard for you to make an argument in favor of a prop blend "to a CONSUMER", as they obviously do us no favors and act to conceal..prob blends are for the company, not the consumer. That said, once again im not condemning pes for doing this as they are not alone. I don't think anyone is judging your motives, just stating an obvious fact about prop blends. I fail to see why you seem to be arguing. The old guy made a good point, it's leucine. Why not help the customer plan for his protein needs, instead of trying to protect the investment as you say? In certain situations I can see more of your point, but disclosing how much leucine is in it probably isn't going to ruin your investment. It would on the other hand, be much appreciated from a consumers point of view.

Believe it or not, it is absolutely capable of ruining an investment. I've seen enough knockoffs to know that MOST copycats use doses of another product that are obvious to most R&D anyway. In this case, it is extremely difficult to flavor leucine. Our flavor is what's proprietary here. It would be seriously stupid to disclose our doses of proteins and leucine in the product. Look at our other products that use ingredients with well-known active doses...they're all non-prop. Erase and anabeta are proprietary for fear of copying...guess what, both DHAA from erase and anacyclus/lodhra from anabeta have been used ad nauseum by other companies.

You want a good product? Then it's unfair to complain when we protect something we've arrived at over a year or two. In products like ergonine or high volume, this need doesn't exist so we make it non-proprietary. It's really that simple

 

[anabolix]

Believe it or not, it is absolutely capable of ruining an investment. I've seen enough knockoffs to know that MOST copycats use doses of another product that are obvious to most R&D anyway. In this case, it is extremely difficult to flavor leucine. Our flavor is what's proprietary here. It would be seriously stupid to disclose our doses of proteins and leucine in the product. Look at our other products that use ingredients with well-known active doses...they're all non-prop. Erase and anabeta are proprietary for fear of copying...guess what, both DHAA from erase and anacyclus/lodhra from anabeta have been used ad nauseum by other companies.

You want a good product? Then it's unfair to complain when we protect something we've arrived at over a year or two. In products like ergonine or high volume, this need doesn't exist so we make it non-proprietary. It's really that simple

Like ive said over and over again, i already understand why you do this. Just raising the point that prop blends are designed to conceal and are not helpful to the consumer in any way..quite the opposite. This topic is seen from two totally different pov's between the manufacturer and consumer, so the argument is a waste. Ill be clear again, im not judging or disagreeing with your motives. That said, nothing can be said that is going to make me like having a curtain over the ingredients im paying for lol.

 

[bdcc]

You are absolutely right, proprietary blends are used to conceal.

I don't like them as a general rule. I would prefer everything was open label (as a consumer).

However, I also work for a company who researched and brought anacyclus pyrethrum to market (following an extensive beta test) only to see it swiftly enter the profiles of many other products, some of which copied our exact dosing regime. It is clear that there was no research here judging by the extracts some companies used.

We also did the same with higenamine (was beta tested as BetaStim-01) and now it is one of the most popular stimulants in pre workouts and thermogenics.

Our first products were all open label i.e. Alpha-T2, Shift, Erase, AnaBeta. Once we started becoming heavily copied our CEO created a thread on here asking what customers thought about us implementing some proprietary blends. The feedback was very positive so we transitioned towards it.

I understand it can be frustrating. Please see it from our side, we can spend a lot of time and money on research, bring a novel product to market and get copied immediately from a company who could purchase their raw materials from China with no testing at all and sling it into a product at a fraction of the cost it took for us to make ours.

In the same way it is unlikely that restaurants will disclose blends of ingredients, there are some things we are more cautious of.

 

[deicide]

everyone wants to copy the best.

 

[schizm]

#CopyTheBest

 

[The_Old_Guy]

So that company owners word means it applies to everyone? Seems fair

I should also mention that If said head honcho is from a company that uses non prop blends, theyre likely using that as a technique so you trust prop blends even less and ergo, buy from them more because theyre more honest

Its easier for someone to get you to listen if the information they present already confirms your bias (this goes for anyone), and less so for the opposite.

For example, a person starts a thread and says "hi guys, so I know test boosters are bunk but what natural anabolics do you recommend?" Then company rep A could go and say "hey man, youre right that test boosters are bunk (confirming bias) but try our natural anabolic, itl make you grow 10lb in 2 days". The person will trust them more because they share a common viewpoint and confirmed a bias.

It happens everywhere

Confirmation Bias... yeah basic principle, but not what's at play here Give me a tad more credit

 

[USPlabsRep]

easy solution is don't buy it....

We are so dramatic about supplements....

the consumer that understands ingredients, they are buying single ingredients or formulating there own products.....

 

[bdcc]

#CopyTheBest

brb, just going to write that in the comments of anyone who is now selling snickerdoodle protein powder.