Interesting information on Bulbine Natalensis

[KilaCali]

Hey AM, just happened to be researching and combing through the web looking up different test boosters and supplements containing some of these compounds touted at being big time natural test boosters and well reading several reviews/studies on one in particular by the name of bulbine natalensis I found a somewhat interesting article about some studies run on this where it did prove to boost test and lower estrogen but the part that really got me is the part about it having negative impact on the liver and kidneys similar to running a synthetic compound.. I thought some people might be interested in this so I decided to post this thread from Examine dot com ... here you go, let me know what you guys opinion and/or experience with this is.

Bulbine natalensis

Bulbine Natalensis is a traditionally used aphrodisiac and Testosterone Booster in South and South-Eastern Africa; in rat studies, it appears to both be quite potent in increasing testosterone but also appears to damage organ function in a similar manner to a steroid cycle.

This page features 9 unique references to scientific papers.

Summary (All Essential Benefits/Effects/Facts & Information)

Bulbine Natalensis is an herb from Southern and South Eastern Africa that has traditionally been used as an aphrodisiac as well as some other beneficial properties. Due to its influences on cognition and sexuality, it is currently being investigated for its effects on testosterone.

Three separate rat studies looking at serum testosterone levels note significant increases in circulating testosterone, and one study noted a decrease in estrogen levels as well. That being said, adverse effects have been reported on both the liver and kidneys with the exact same dosages seen to increase testosterone.

Also Known As
ibhucu, rooiwortel, ingcelwane

How to Take (recommended dosage, active amounts, other details)

Rat studies investigating how bulbine natalensis interacts with testosterone note that 50mg/kg (of a 10:1 extraction) appear to be the optimal dosage, and based on Body Surface Area Conversions,[8] this correlates into an estimated human dose of 8mg/kg or:
•550mg for a 150lb person
•730mg for a 200lb person
•900mg for a 250lb person

These doses are currently only estimates, but they are within the range seen in the only industry funded trial on bulbine natalensis at this moment in time (which used 650mg).[9] Doses would be 10-fold higher if the raw plant is used without any particular extraction.


Editors' Thoughts on Bulbine natalensis

The side-effects make this herb the most 'steroid-like' from what is indexed in Examine; up to you whether that is good or bad, but cycling this compound would be mandatory.

— Kurtis Frank


Human Effect Matrix

The Human Effect Matrix looks at human studies (excluding animal/petri-dish studies) to tell you what effect Bulbine natalensis has in your body, and how strong these effects are.

Grade

Level of Evidence

A Robust research conducted with repeated double blind clinical trials
B Multiple studies where at least two are double-blind and placebo controlled
C Single double blind study or multiple cohort studies
D Uncontrolled or observational studies only

1.1. Composition


As a herbal compound, Bulbine Natalensis contains a variety of isolated compounds or classes of compounds. These include:
•Saponins at 1.97% of dry weight[3]
•Anthraquinones at 0.152% dry weight[3]
•Tannins at 0.481% dry weight[3]
•Cardiac Glycosides at 0.887% dry weight[3]
•Alkaloids at 0.2% dry weight[3]

2. Interactions with Cardiac Health

Therapeutic doses of Bulbine Natalensis (25-100mg/kg bodyweight in rats) appear to be able to raise circulating cholesterol and triglyceride levels, and cause slight changes in lipoproteins (HDL, LDL) to induce a more pro-artherogenic state. Cholesterol levels can increase 51.9%, 38.9%, and 55.6% after 14 days of consuming 25, 50, and 100mg/kg bodyweight in rats respectively while triglycerides increase by 115.8%, 82.5%, and 45.6% respectively.[4] Changes in triglycerides were seen after one day of administration, and were hypothesized to be due to increased lipolysis.[4]

While LDL was unaffected, HDL cholesterol decreased from 1.73+/-0.07mmol/L down to 0.90, 1.04, and 1.02mmol/L in the 25, 50, and 100mg/kg dosage groups; respectively.[4]

Preliminary evidence suggests that, like a proper steroid cycle, the longer you use Bulbine Natalensis the more problematic your lipid profile becomes

4. Interactions with Organs

4.1. Liver

One toxicology study in rats found that oral ingestion of 25, 50, and 100mg/kg bodyweight was able to alter liver enzymes and induce histological changes that are known to be adverse.[6] The adverse effects on liver enzymes increased dose-dependently and over time.

4.2. Kidneys

After ingestion of 25, 50, and 100mg/kg bodyweight Bulbine Natalensis in otherwise healthy rats, histological examination of the kidney's tubules (both proximal and convoluted) noted distortions in the architecture which may be indicative of some toxic effects.[6]

6. Safety and Toxicology

6.1. General

Bulbine Natalensis does not appear to alter the profile of red blood cells (a standard toxicology test) in otherwise healthy rats, although it can alter the white blood cell population.[4] Dosages of 25, 50, and 100mg/kg bodyweight over 14 days can increase white blood cell (WBC) count by 41.9%, 26.1%, and 38.5% respectively.[4] Levels of neutrophils, eosinophils, basophils, and lymphocytes decreased while monocytes and platelets increased.

As mentioned in the sections on organs, Bulbine Natalensis appears to adversely affect the structure of the liver and kidneys at dosages used to increase testosterone. The prostate and related 'male' organs do not seem to be as adversely affected though.[6][5]

A preliminary investigation into humans (poster presentation found here,[7] financially supported by Sports Nutrition Research LTD which produced the tested supplement) ingesting 325mg of bulbine natalensis twice daily (750mg total, separated by 6 hours) for 28 days in otherwise healthy men noted a slight increase in ALP (2% while placebo decreased 2.4%) which were deemed to not be clinically relevant.

There appear to be repeated nonlethal toxic effects demonstrated in rodents from one research group based in South Africa, while the lone human study on bulbine (which is financially supported by a producer of bulbine) noted an increase in the liver enzyme ALP which was not to a clinically large degree.

Currently, the histopathological changes that have been noted in rats have not been sufficiently addressed in humans. While 750mg bulbine does not appear highly damaging according to preliminary evidence, a toxic effect cannot be ruled out

Scientific Support & Reference Citations

References
1. Yakubu MT, Afolayan AJ Anabolic and androgenic activities of Bulbine natalensis stem in male Wistar rats . Pharm Biol. (2010)
2. Pather N, Viljoen AM, Kramer B A biochemical comparison of the in vivo effects of Bulbine frutescens and Bulbine natalensis on cutaneous wound healing . J Ethnopharmacol. (2011)
3. Yakubu MT, Afolayan AJ Effect of aqueous extract of Bulbine natalensis (Baker) stem on the sexual behaviour of male rats . Int J Androl. (2009)
4. Yakubu MT, Afolayan AJ Effect of aqueous extract of Bulbine natalensis Baker stem on haematological and serum lipid profile of male Wistar rats . Indian J Exp Biol. (2009)
5. Yakubu MT, Afolayan AJ Reproductive toxicologic evaluations of Bulbine natalensis Baker stem extract in albino rats . Theriogenology. (2009)
6. Afolayan AJ, Yakubu MT Effect of Bulbine natalensis Baker stem extract on the functional indices and histology of the liver and kidney of male Wistar rats . J Med Food. (2009)
7. Short term safety of bulbine natalensis supplementation in healthy men
8. Guidance for Industry Estimating the Maximum Safe Starting Dose in Initial Clinical Trials for Therapeutics in Adult Healthy Volunteers
9. Short Term Safety of bulbine natalensis supplementation in healthy men

(Common phrases used by users for this page include Bulbine Natalensis, bulbine natalensis, bulbine natalensis, bulbine natalensis, bulbine natalensis plant, bulbine natalensis safest dose)

(Users who contributed to this page include Steve Hurt, akabalik, KurtisFrank, Sol )

anybody wishing to read the entire study can goto the site I referenced, I figured anyone planning to or aleady using supplements containing this may be interested in this, it does look great as far as test boosting/libido boosting also raising LH and FSH, and lowering estrogen, also mentions effects on progesterone

3.4. Progesterone

Increases in progesterone have been noted with 25mg/kg (+31%) and 50mg/kg (+70%). A decrease of 41% is seen with 100mg/kg bodyweight Bulbine Natalensis.[5]

Progresterone does not appear to be influenced in female rats.[5]

anyways I hope this helps someone out or atleast is of some interest to some of you out there. have a great week!

 

[furion]

This is a very preliminary finding and is certainly not conclusive.
The histopathological changes noted in rats are more than likely due to the anthraquinone constituents. Other plants containing higher levels of these constituents and more commonly used, such as Senna, Cascara and Aloe, share this rare and presumably idiosyncratic adverse effect.
The only real hypothesis as to the etiology is commensal GI flora mediated biotransformation of these constituents into hepatotoxic metabolites- for which you certainly couldn't transpose rodent data let alone apply to whole human populations.

 

[KilaCali]

Definitely, I checked or some studies on human subjects I'll have to post when I get home but it noted that it was fairly safe I can't remember if it mentioned its effects on liver and kidneys but it was a good study, very interesting stuff for sure.

 

[berazzled]

Crap im about to start using this.rethinking it now.

 

[ucheoma]

Question is how effective is Bulbine in humans at raising test. Of this Ive found no convincing or supporting data or evidence to date.

This data on test boosting in rats has been around for some time. Bulbine was touted as the next big thing two to three years ago but I reckon this is another supplement that failed to match its hype

 

[KilaCali]

Well like I said I did find one or two studies ran on humans that did show allot of promise in raising free test, lowering estrogen and some other positive things tonight when I get home to my pc I'll be able to pull it up and I'll post it cause I'm one to only have faith of anything in human studies not rats or petri dishes or test tubes cause that's so many factors to consider..

 

[berazzled]

I dont like that it causes liver issues.

 

[infinitepower]

But what kind of liver issues are we talking about? In retrospect many things can cause liver issues. The first pass rule applies to anything digested orally.

 

[Jiigzz]

I dont like that it causes liver issues.

See furions post above. When the word hepa is metioned, think liver.

 

[KilaCali]

Well from what I seen it only pertains to rats so far, the human studies said it was fairly safe but I don't want to say the exact results cause I can't remember the entire article it was 3am and I was half out if it when I find out but google bulbine natalensis study humans and I bet it will bring those up, if you find anything halfway decent feel free to post it in this thread

 

[berazzled]

Ill study more before i start testabol

 

[KilaCali]

For sure, I always spend countless hours reading and studying as well as networking with people who have experience with things before I try them thank god for the internet it's so easy now to educate yourself with as much knowledge as you can fit in your brain...

 

[berazzled]

Thats for sure.better to be informed unless you want to ruin yourself.

 

[KilaCali]

Yea for sure man, or even just to take advantage of every aspect you can.

 

[hsk]

I've used more than 8 bottles of SNS Bulbine over the past 2.5 years and have had no liver or kidney issues whatsoever. Each cycle was for 1 bottle and everytime around the 2-3 week mark, I was leaner, drier, had increased libido, and slept very deep.

Additionally, the following was a Double-blind, placebo-controlled human clinical safety study posted on the Prolensis website:

ProLensis™ was recently investigated in a 28-day double-blind, placebo-controlled human trial for safety data. The conclusion of the study was that ProLensis™ was found to be as safe as placebo (maltodextrin). The findings were statistically significant.

Short Term Safety of bulbine natalensis supplementation in healthy men
Hofheins J.E., Habowski S.M., Ziegenfuss T.N., and Lopez H.L. The Center for Applied Health Sciences,Stow,OH.

Objective: As the first step in a series of experiments designed to assess in thein vivoeffects ofBulbine natalensis(ProLensisä) supplementation, we performed a placebo-controlled, double-blind clinical trial to assess the short-term safety of this ingredient.Methods: After giving informed consent and being cleared for participation by passing a screening physical and EKG, 36 apparently healthy men (mean ± SD age, height, weight: 29.4 ± 7.7 y, 177.2 ± 5.2 cm, 82.2 ± 10.7 kg) consumed 4 capsules of ProLensisä(325 mg in the morning, 325 mg six hours later) or a matched placebo every day for 28 days. Clinical chemistry panels (renal, hepatic, and hematological biomarkers) and general markers of health (heart rate, blood pressure, EKG) were assessed before and after 28 days of supplementation. Data were analyzed via ANCOVA using baseline values as the covariate and statistical significance was seta prioriat P≤0.05.Results: In 27 of 29 variables, no differences were noted between groups. Alkaline phosphatase (AP) increased marginally in the ProLensisägroup (+2.0 IU/L, +3%) compared to a parallel decrease the Placebo group (-2.4 IU/L, -3.8%); P<0.04. In contrast, creatinine (Creat) decreased slightly in the ProLensisägroup (-0.08, -7.4%) compared to no change in the Placebo group (P<0.003). It is our opinion that the observed differences in AP and Creat are not clinically relevant given that all values for both groups fell well within normative clinical limits (i.e. typical values for AP range from 20 to 140 IU/L1; typical values for Creat range from0.6 to 1.3 mg/dL for men and 0.5 to 1.1 mg/dL for women2).Conclusions:Within the confines of the current experimental design (i.e. subject demographics, dose and duration of use) these preliminary data suggest that ProLensisäis as safe as Placebo with respect to the hemodynamic, hepatic, renal, and hematologic biomarkers assessed. Future studies should seek to clarify extraction methods and bioactive(s), investigate potential efficacy, and confirm these safety data to strengthen the total body of evidence.

 

[hsk]

One thing I would like to know is if anyone knows or can find a study regarding the MOA for the lowering/decrease in estrogen by Bulbine. Does it behave like a SERM or AI? I still have yet to find the answer to this.

 

[ucheoma]

Well like I said I did find one or two studies ran on humans that did show allot of promise in raising free test, lowering estrogen and some other positive things tonight when I get home to my pc I'll be able to pull it up and I'll post it cause I'm one to only have faith of anything in human studies not rats or petri dishes or test tubes cause that's so many factors to consider..

Sorry if i seem so down on bulbine but thats because i spent a lot buying the phytoserms 347 product, followed the recommended dosage, tested and my test fell slightly so as far as im concerned it doesn't work.

I believe the human study you refer to which has been referenced above was a safety study not a study on test boosting effects in humans but if you have more specifics on the study plse share

 

[KilaCali]

that's one of the studies I was referring too that hsk posted up there.
ucheoma I understand completely what your saying, from what it appears phytoserms 347 is a proprietary blend and I never trust those cause honestly you have no idea how much of each ingredient you are getting and seeing how theres 500mg per serving and they have more then one ingredient and you need well over 100mg of each one of those compounds I get the feeling that you probably weren't even getting a significant amount of it to begin with, i cant say for sure that's the main cause but im sure that's probably part of it, as well as everyone reacting differently...

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I too would like a link to a human testosterone study - I couldn't find one. I'm currently on the "supposed" mac-daddy of stacks: Bulbine, Fadogia, and Anacyclus... meh. I'll wait until 8 weeks (6 for Bulbine - June 15th) and analyze the lifting log to be fair though.

 

[KilaCali]

I too would like a link to a human testosterone study - I couldn't find one. I'm currently on the "supposed" mac-daddy of stacks: Bulbine, Fadogia, and Anacyclus... meh. I'll wait until 8 weeks (6 for Bulbine - June 15th) and analyze the lifting log to be fair though.

Cool, you got a log up? post a link in here, i'd like to check it out. and i'll look around for you thanks!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Log? Just a paper one in my gym downstairs

 

[berazzled]

Ya id like to see that also

 

[KilaCali]

ucheoma just found this on ironmag referring to the studies and this jumped out what was said after you said your test dropped a little using it...

Human Application

How this data translates to humans is unclear. However preliminary data confirms that ProLensis™ (Bulbine natalensis) does in fact raise testosterone levels in human males. Since the rodent trial using the larger 100mg per kg body weight dose demonstrated a negative correlation to testosterone values it is very important that recommended doses of ProLensis™ are not exceeded as this may actually lower testosterone levels.

Athletes looking to enhance their hormonal profile, support a healthy endocrine system, or improve their recovery, can all benefit from the use of this botanical in a dietary supplement. Additionally, those looking to improve their libido or experience prosexual effects, may potentially benefit from ProLensis™ (Bulbine Natalensis).

 

[KilaCali]

here's a somewhat interesting story from a guy that tested it on himself, there is bloods supposedly as well but for some reason i cant see them from my computer so let me know if you guys see them, heres the link as well as a good portion of the most important part of the research.. again for ucheoma lol more mention of doing toomuch lowers test in his story..

http://www.steroidtimes.com/bulbine-natalensis-raises-testosterone-lowers-estrogen/2010

The human equivalent dose of a drug (or nutritional supplement) is determined by a very specific mathematical formula. The way not to figure this out is to simply multiply/divide by bodyweight. Test animal weighs one kilogram? You weigh 100 kilograms? Just take 100x the dose! That’s not how it’s done.

Let’s just skip to the part where I tell you that I did a bunch of math-stuff, ended up with a number, and that’s the dose I ended up taking.

To make things quasi-scientific, I went off all nutritional supplements, and had my (free) testosterone and estrogen (E2) tested. Then I took a week’s worth of Bulbine Natalensis, once per day, before bed. I took it once per day because that’s what the rodents in the study did, and because it was easier to make fewer capsules. During this time I trained and ate normally. I used ZRT laboratories for testosterone and estrogen testing (saliva) and my primary care physician for bloodwork.

To make a long story short, I botched my calculations, and I ended up taking far too much, probably because I wasn’t using the same extract as the study (I was simply taking the raw herb). I was on the down slope of the curve. So while my estrogen was lowered by over 20%, my testosterone was also lowered by around 20% also!

hormonefail

The results were (and are) promising, because at least I knew that the herb did exactly what the study said it would – I just miscalculated and used too much. So I put together several weeks worth of capsules in a variety of doses, and waited a little longer before retesting. As you can see, by the time I’d readjusted my dose and had another test done, I had still achieved a lower estrogen than my baseline (going from 1.3 to 1.1, or 15% under baseline) and brought back my test levels to slightly over their accidentally lowered level (from 101 to 131, up about 30% from the depressed level):

I was finally on the right track, and as you can see, Bulbine Natalensis has a pronounced effect on both testosterone and estrogen, that I was able to control by changing the dose – which was predictably in line with the rodent study. By getting the original test done, along with two more tests at different doses, I could plug my own results into the dose response curve, and figure out where I needed to be, ideally, to get the test boost/estrogen reduction that would put me at the peak of the curve for each.

freetestestrogenWhen I figured out the optimal dose, my libido was up, my strength was up, and I was gaining a bit of muscle too…then I stayed at that dose for a couple more months. Needless to say, with a huge boost in test (and reduction in estrogen), my results were phenomenal.

When I was sure that it was safe (I didn’t die), I began giving it to my friends. This is fairly standard for me…not too long ago, I gave Iron Man Magazine author Jerry Brainum, a bunch of Irvingia Gabonensis, for him to test out (I couldn’t do it personally because I was testing another herb on myself at the time). I like giving samples to other authors, because if something sucks, they’ll write about it….there’s no safety net for me or the compound.

Normally, my buddies get a month’s supply (of whatever I’m testing) and in return I get a month’s worth of data about their strength gains, bodyweight changes, libido, fat loss, etc…in this case, all of the things we’d want to experience with a testosterone booster. Maybe I’m not doing textbook science here, but at least we can say that I’ve put forth some pretty good reasoning for Bulbine Natalensis to be included in future testosterone boosters, or at least for people to look into it, right?

After I gave it to my friends – the guys I hang out with on a daily basis – I gave some to Mike Mahler, a professional in the fitness industry who has probably written and spoken as much as anyone else on hormone optimization. After a month on Bulbine Natalensis, he asked for a Summer supply! Luckily I still had plenty left over from the original bag. And just like Jerry, if the stuff was rotten garbage, Mahler woulda’ let me know. You can read about Mike’s experience on Bulbine Natalensis here.

By the end, I was sitting on a mountain of real-world data – the kind of data that you get from sweating in the gym and moving heavy iron…i.e. the kind of data that matters to us. Everyone using the stuff felt a libido boost, everyone got stronger, and everyone put on lean mass while reducing body fat. My own hormone tests showed that it was working predictably on paper, but in the real world we also care about the kind of data that shows up in the gym, not just on a hormonal profile.

When I’d been on the herb for multiple months, at what I figured was the ideal dose, I did a blood test to make sure the herb was safe. Typically, when you raise test levels and lower estrogen, you’re going to put yourself at risk to throw your body out of whack – complete blood count (CBC), blood lipids, liver enzymes, etc…can all be adversely effected. But this stuff works…it’s been quite an ordeal to get here from 2008, when I first discovered Bulbine, through researching testosterone boosters for Daniel/ALN, to the point we’re at now, where I can confidently say that it’s a winner.

Bulbine Natalensis lowers estrogen, it raises testosterone, and it had no adverse effects on me. Remember, the rodent data tells us that we’re looking at a 35% estrogen reduction, with a 347% boost in testosterone. The stuff is the real deal, even though it took me 2 years to figure it out…and at this point, I’m pretty happy saying that the raw Bulbine Natalensis herb is safe and effective. My test levels ended up higher than baseline, even after all of the messing around with bad doses…and my estrogen was lower. And you can check out my liver enzymes, lipids, etc…at the end of this article…they’re all fine.

Now, I’m onto different trials, for different herbs, still experimenting on myself…but not with Bulbine Natalensis. I plan to get some additional bloodwork (a full hormone panel) done for a before and after test on this herb, probably some time in the Autumn, and hopefully I can do some more research and figure out the upper limit of itspotential. All of that is on hold for me, though, because I’ve moved on to testing other stuff, and it’s a pain in the butt to get Bulbine…but now that I’ve put the ball in motion, I’m sure we’ll see increased interest, and probably a couple of products hitting the market before 2010 is over.

So, just to end things on the right note, I’ve got a nice copy of my blood work for you (excuse the sloppy scan-work, I combined two pages into one for the blog, and cropped my address out). But remember: this stuff isn’t magic …it’s not going to turn you into Mr. Olympia overnight, and it’s not going to put 30 lbs of muscle on you in a week - but it appears to be a very safe, very effective, testosterone booster that doubles as an anti-estrogen…and you don’t need to take 20 grams of it.

 

[KilaCali]

Log? Just a paper one in my gym downstairs

lol awesome, but yea keep us posted!

 

[berazzled]

So what is a good dose.i have testabol.it has a prop blend of 325 mg.

 

[KilaCali]

So what is a good dose.i have testabol.it has a prop blend of 325 mg.

well i cant really give you an exact dose cause im still familiarizing myself with it, but whats IN the prop blend?? what supplement is it?

 

[berazzled]

Dont know how to post a link but its on strong supps.it has bulbine

 

[Stabsy]

I recommend sns bulbine, it uses the prolensis variety 350 mg per cap if I remember correctly so makes it easy to play with the dose. 1 cap per day works for me.

 

[hsk]

Use SNS Bulbine. This is basically bulk Prolensis aka Bulbine Natalensis. No prop blend, just one single ingredient. All the bottles I have used so far have been the same consistent quality . You just have to play with the dosing depending on your body weight. It took me a while to find my sweet spot but once I did, runs were all consistent and so were expected effects. This product is a good value too especially for lighter guys who are under 180lbs. One bottle lasts me 6.5 to 8 weeks depending on how I run it.

As we speak I am currently on 3.5 weeks into a SNS Bulbine and Icariin 40% stack and everything is really starting to shine.

 

[ucheoma]

KilaCali i believe that article was by anthony roberts? He was pushing bulbine 4yrs ago and promoting bulbine as the next great thing.

Its interesting he didnt give any actual test results but quotes the test results from the rat study.Am rather sceptical of his article as he had some commercial interest in pushing bulbine. Since 2010 nothing from him following up on his claims. Long and short still yet to see human data that backs up the hype that surrounded bulbine more than 4 yrs after it became popularised.


Yet to see any compelling human data

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Use SNS Bulbine. This is basically bulk Prolensis aka Bulbine Natalensis. No prop blend, just one single ingredient. All the bottles I have used so far have been the same consistent quality . You just have to play with the dosing depending on your body weight. It took me a while to find my sweet spot but once I did, runs were all consistent and so were expected effects. This product is a good value too especially for lighter guys who are under 180lbs. One bottle lasts me 6.5 to 8 weeks depending on how I run it.

As we speak I am currently on 3.5 weeks into a SNS Bulbine and Icariin 40% stack and everything is really starting to shine.

I agree that SNS is the best bet. I started out at 2 Caps (700mg) which is dang close to the 8mg/KG "optimum" (50mg/KG in Rats before conversion). I didn't notice anything 3 weeks in, so, knowing that there is a response curve and sometimes lower is better, I'm at one cap now. This is stacked with ABE and T-Force Fadogia. Like I said, I'll give them all 8 weeks (6 for Bulbine) and check my log. IIRC some of them need to build up, but persist after cessation...we'll see.

 

[hsk]

I agree that SNS is the best bet. I started out at 2 Caps (700mg) which is dang close to the 8mg/KG "optimum" (50mg/KG in Rats before conversion). I didn't notice anything 3 weeks in, so, knowing that there is a response curve and sometimes lower is better, I'm at one cap now. This is stacked with ABE and T-Force Fadogia. Like I said, I'll give them all 8 weeks (6 for Bulbine) and check my log. IIRC some of them need to build up, but persist after cessation...we'll see.

More is definitely not better with this stuff. I posted a review the first time I ran it and with the help of Mr.Cooper, I got everything dialed in pretty good. So far this is the best value t-booster I have used and very versatile. This pairs very well with , Recompadrol, Forskolin95, Anabeta, as well as Icariin 40%. Still need to try it with fadogia and possibly divanil as well i the near future.

 

[infinitepower]

KilaCali i believe that article was by anthony roberts? He was pushing bulbine 4yrs ago and promoting bulbine as the next great thing.

Its interesting he didnt give any actual test results but quotes the test results from the rat study.Am rather sceptical of his article as he had some commercial interest in pushing bulbine. Since 2010 nothing from him following up on his claims. Long and short still yet to see human data that backs up the hype that surrounded bulbine more than 4 yrs after it became popularised.


et to see any compelling human datA

As in steroid guru Anthony Roberts? Guy knows his stuff wonder what happened

 

[KilaCali]

KilaCali i believe that article was by anthony roberts? He was pushing bulbine 4yrs ago and promoting bulbine as the next great thing.

Its interesting he didnt give any actual test results but quotes the test results from the rat study.Am rather sceptical of his article as he had some commercial interest in pushing bulbine. Since 2010 nothing from him following up on his claims. Long and short still yet to see human data that backs up the hype that surrounded bulbine more than 4 yrs after it became popularised.


et to see any compelling human datA

Yea, I don't remember his name but I definitely noticed he was selling what seemed to be his very own version of it, so as with everything you gotta kind of take it with a grain of salt cause it's hard to tell sometimes who is behind these studies and what the intent is with them, i'm very skeptical of all things and have to see several different results before I feel I can, make an established guess to try anything out, so all we can do is just kind of take from it what we can and add it to everything else halfway legit...

to the other guys hsk . The_Old_Guy SNS does make some good quality supps!

 

[JYD]

Resurrecting this thread as I'm taking SNS Bulbine and weight 185. I'm stacking with Inhibt-P and LJ100 (three caps). Should I stick with one cap or try two of Bulbine?

 

[hsk]

Resurrecting this thread as I'm taking SNS Bulbine and weight 185. I'm stacking with Inhibt-P and LJ100 (three caps). Should I stick with one cap or try two of Bulbine?

Stick with 1 cap daily. Too much Bulbine can have a negative effect.

 

[JYD]

Stick with 1 cap daily. Too much Bulbine can have a negative effect.

thx!!

 

[hsk]

thx!!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/product-review/211842-bulbine-60-capsules.html

I left a review for SNS Bulbine. Read through the whole thread if you have time. Just remember more is not better.

 

[CT21]

I find it funny that guys that load up on methylated stimulants, prohormones, and other oral aas, etc are concerned with the liver toxicity of a herbal testosterone booster that is directed to be used for short periods, i.e. 6-12 weeks at most.

All joking aside though, I was just reading the profile of Bulbine Natalensis on Examine the other day...I did make note that it has some liver toxicity, but after further reading and contemplation I came to the consensus that it can still be used as a SAFE and EFFECTIVE supplement for short periods like I mentioned above. Especially during a PCT regiment, where one would already or should be using supplements like NAC, TUDCA, Curcumin, Probiotics, etc for liver health and anti-oxidant properties.

To affirm one of your earlier post, OP, anyone taking any supplement should know all the risks associated with that supplement and if they've excepted those risks, also accept that if one of the said side effects arises it is your body's inability to process, cope or handle that specific supplement not the other way around and does not mean that said supplement is dangerous or that others shouldn't use it. For example I learned the associated risks with supplementing Agamtine sulfate, which 80% of people wont encounter, so when they arose after deciding to add it into my supplement regiment I simply stopped using it. Now i have since tried to incorporate it again to see if my body would adapt but that is not the case. Does that mean Agmatine is not safe or others shouldnt use it, NO! Now I know a good percentage don't or are not willing to put in the time researching like some of us , but if your using Bulbine from a reliable source, like SNS, for the very least read the directions and warnings on the label. They are there for a reason people!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I find it funny that guys that load up on methylated stimulants, prohormones, and other oral aas, etc are concerned with the liver toxicity of a herbal testosterone booster that is directed to be used for short periods, i.e. 6-12 weeks at most.

I find it funny that Sports Nutrition Research, Ltd did a 28 Day safety study on their supplement, and ran before and after:

Clinical chemistry panels (renal, hepatic, and hematological biomarkers) and general markers of health (heart rate, blood pressure, EKG)

... yet somehow couldn't pull Free and Total T numbers for such an awesome "T-Booster"

 

[CT21]

I find it funny that Sports Nutrition Research, Ltd did a 28 Day safety study on their supplement, and ran before and after:



... yet somehow couldn't pull Free and Total T numbers for such an awesome "T-Booster"

I cant argue on the effectiveness of the extract, as i need to reaseach it more and possibly run it with blood work, but thats not a possability for me at this time. I was rather stating the toxicity of the herb is negligable unless someone has a pre existing condition, is completly reckless in the dose and duration or is just one of the few who reacts badly to it...

 

[BlockBuilder]

I find it funny that guys that load up on methylated stimulants, prohormones, and other oral aas, etc are concerned with the liver toxicity of a herbal testosterone booster that is directed to be used for short periods, i.e. 6-12 weeks at most.

All joking aside though, I was just reading the profile of Bulbine Natalensis on Examine the other day...I did make note that it has some liver toxicity, but after further reading and contemplation I came to the consensus that it can still be used as a SAFE and EFFECTIVE supplement for short periods like I mentioned above. Especially during a PCT regiment, where one would already or should be using supplements like NAC, TUDCA, Curcumin, Probiotics, etc for liver health and anti-oxidant properties.

To affirm one of your earlier post, OP, anyone taking any supplement should know all the risks associated with that supplement and if they've excepted those risks, also accept that if one of the said side effects arises it is your body's inability to process, cope or handle that specific supplement not the other way around and does not mean that said supplement is dangerous or that others shouldn't use it. For example I learned the associated risks with supplementing Agamtine sulfate, which 80% of people wont encounter, so when they arose after deciding to add it into my supplement regiment I simply stopped using it. Now i have since tried to incorporate it again to see if my body would adapt but that is not the case. Does that mean Agmatine is not safe or others shouldnt use it, NO! Now I know a good percentage don't or are not willing to put in the time researching like some of us , but if your using Bulbine from a reliable source, like SNS, for the very least read the directions and warnings on the label. They are there for a reason people!

No I agree it is pretty funny

 

[Daycrawler]

1 cap/day.

Good stuff I like it a lot. We also just released M-Test(non hormonal) in the CEL Line which is an amazing natty test booster

 

[orevgym1]

What would be a good cycling time for bulbine, good sir?