what do you guys use for cutting; supplement wise?

willchap86

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Hey guys, finally reaching 230lbs, I want to shed some fat. Ive done research, and see a whole mess of different plans and thoughts, from cla, to hydroxy cut, to even winstrol. I am not talking about cross fit, keep skinny type of look. I am in the gym for that body builder look on stage. (no offense to them)

Ive been lifting for about 4 years now (starting out at 160lbs, now weighing 230) I want to hear your success in cutting IF it personally worked for you.
What kind of carbs do you eat, how much calories did you kick back?

As for me, my plan is going to be high GI carbs before and after the gym, then low GI carbs sweet pot, oatmeal, salads through out the day.
I most likely will still keep 300 grams of protein a day. I also will be trying out CLA and l-caratine.

opinions? stories? best possible way to keep the mass I worked hard for, for over 4 years!?

thanks guys!
 
Driven2lift

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Wouldn't bother with either of those supps brother.

ALCAR or LCLT > L-carn
CLA is mixed data and is really just calories in your diet IMO

only do a diet you can maintain, no special dieting tactic is better than another of the same caloric total

My article on this is up on our main page Nutrition: The Big Picture
 
The_Old_Guy

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285>223 while adding strength and size (but I don't desire to look like an Olympia competitor - more Physique). 500-600kcal deficit (1 year and counting). 30-40 minutes cardio, 3-4 times a week (I run when possible). Caffeine, Yohimbine HCL, a-Yohimbine, and Ephedrine HCL are what I use. I started at 1.6g protein per Kilogram. As I got leaner, I changed to 1g per pound of estimated Lean Body Mass. I'm at around 200g right now. Probably too much from an economic standpoint, but 20-30g less won't make me any richer. 300 grams!? Wow. I'm an Alan Aragon, Eric Helms kind of guy though, so if 300 works for you, awesome.
 
thebigt

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getting ready to use evomuse epitome and ammo, after i finish what turned out to be a bulk!!!
 

willchap86

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when you say "do a diet I can only maintain" meaning a maintenance diet (only consume 4000 calories, which is my maintain phase to bulk I consume 4500)
also, would you guys say its ok to

eat
eat
gym
eat
eat
light cardio 30 min
eat
eat

to maintain muscle and shed just fat (also thinking about taking a stack of pro hormones to maintain that mass)
 
hvactech

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Meaning a diet that you can easily comprehend on a daily basis... no fancy dieting tactics, focus on caloric and macronutrient goals
 
Driven2lift

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Meaning a diet that you can easily comprehend on a daily basis... no fancy dieting tactics, focus on caloric and macronutrient goals
This,
One you can keep up too

Dont do IF if you run better with regular meals

Dont do low carb if it makes you a zombie
 

ascromenin

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My 8 lb 8 week cut at a 500 calorie deficit from my maintenance (timing may vary +/- 1 hour):

7:00 AM - 25/200/6 ECY (alpha yohimbine), 50 mg forskolin, 1 g alcar, 1 scoop ergonine (all preworkout)
11:00 AM - 25/200/6 ECY, 50 mg forskolin, 1g alcar
3:00 PM - 25/200 EC (some days only)

Had about .8g/lb-1g/lb protein, didn't set other macros, maintained mass for the most part. Also was on IF so I was fasted until evening.

Also, I don't recommend ECY unless you know how you react to these stims and slowly build up. If you're doing a longer cut, you can probably introduce them later when your cut is getting tough.
 
Tabascoonall

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DIET DIET DIET but sup wise mag alphadex and pyroxamine
 

willchap86

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Thnak you everyone for the help
Driven2lift,

that supplement you recommended, when would be best to take that? does it suppress your diet?

what about the cardio; you think that is fine same day after working out?

for instance, I lifted weights 3 hours ago, now I am going back for light cardio on treadmill
 

NewAgeMayan

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This,
One you can keep up too

Dont do IF if you run better with regular meals

Dont do low carb if it makes you a zombie
Exfukinactly.

This may not be you op, but so many folks go for a new fandangled diet cos its novel, and sure novel things can be appealing on the face of it but you want something you can stick to for years (or for however long it takes you to reach your goal).

So yeah, as is mostly the case, the best advice can seem boring and unappealing but it damn well works :)
 

CJNator

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Target A2, it help me a lot and i saw great results from it solo. I don't recommend that you start it with stimulants.
 
machinehead

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IF and sprints for appetite control, Burn24 for silent shredding.
 
Driven2lift

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Thnak you everyone for the help Driven2lift, that supplement you recommended, when would be best to take that? does it suppress your diet? what about the cardio; you think that is fine same day after working out? for instance, I lifted weights 3 hours ago, now I am going back for light cardio on treadmill
Take Norcodrene when fasted, twice daily,
Suppresses appetite absolutely

No issue with cardio same day but dont overdo it, leave yourself room for adjustment if progress stalls
 
hvactech

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Caffeine and yohimbe.... never fails
 
Adizzle1

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Another fat burner that may be worth looking into would be OxyMax XT. Its a great fat burner using Amentoflavone, Forskolin 95%, Higenamine, Rauwolscine and Capsacian. As well, it contains several other ingredients that should enhance energy and mood. The Amentoflavone not only be synergistic for fat loss but should also help maintain strength during a cut. Forskolin-95 will also make it a bit easier to maintain lean body mass while cutting down calories.

Its a new fat burner but def. one worth looking into.
 
The Solution

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Meaning a diet that you can easily comprehend on a daily basis... no fancy dieting tactics, focus on caloric and macronutrient goals
What he said
You are just starting your weightloss journey, there is no reason to jump to supplements right out of the gate.

start getting your body into a caloric deficit over the next 6-8 weeks and then when you start to drop caloris and add cardio to your routine then implement the burners, fatloss products, and other aspects to help you get through the roadblocks.

Personally two bulk ingredients that are musts for cutting IMO are Yohimbine starting at 2.5mg and increasing upward depending on how you tolearte it
50-100mg Forskolin 95 (split into two doses)

Some popular choices of fat burners (Stimmed):
Alphamine / Norco from PES
AEN LIV
ANS Diablo

Shift From PES is a great product with f95 in it that could stack well
I would also consider something like Erase Pro as a hardeining agent

You could make a killer stack of Norco/Alphamine + Erase Pro + Shift and really kick things into overdrive towards the end of your dieting phase.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/exercise-and-weightfat-loss-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/exercise-and-weightfat-loss-part-2.html

I highly suggest you read here regarding your diet:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-fundamentals-of-fat-loss-diets-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-fundamentals-of-fat-loss-diets-part-2.html
 
Driven2lift

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Edited
 
The Solution

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Mike Mccandless (scivation) just made some comical BCAA claims on Facebook

Fighting to the death they are amazing and saying a study is coming
(yes arguing something unpublished)


And funded by him,
How convenient to argue an invisible article paid for by you
Who else is going to fund it?
MuscleTech
PES
Universal
Myokem?

It is being done at the University of North Carolina (i think)

look at companies like MT who publish the clear muscle study, who do you think will fund that? Not a competitor company. If you want to get research behind your product what company is going to do it. That company, not another one. Who would drop millions to invest in another company or publish their study?

Some random bum off the side of the street or some random scientist is not just going to invest in X study with Y product because he feels like it or has a good 8-10 weeks to run a trial on a product under certain conditions. The company will have to set that up and execute it to establish or back their claims on products.
 
Driven2lift

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Edited
 

NewAgeMayan

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Mike Mccandless (scivation) just made some comical BCAA claims on Facebook

Fighting to the death they are amazing and saying a study is coming
(yes arguing something unpublished)


And funded by him,
How convenient to argue an invisible article paid for by you
Shame. Something similiar went down recently at another forum. I always thought he was more careful than this, its a bit disappointing.
 
The Solution

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He said that too,
Thats fine

But arguing and referencing a non existent study was kind of ridiculous

Post had nothing to do with Scivation either he came from nowhere
We are all ears until we read it and see what it has to say and prove. Until then we just have to see what it has to offer.
 
The_Old_Guy

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I'll never trust 1st party paid for studies. I hear you - not all of them are BS, but the temptation is too high to fudge. I'll just go without the compound - it's not like the roof over my head is paid for by 4.7 extra ounces of muscle/less fat. Worst case, it takes me an extra year or so to get where I'm going... I have the time.
 
Driven2lift

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In fairness I've been in PMs with Mike since late last night

Nothing against the guy

I now know the context of the Statement and have deleted initial posts

We may agree to disagree on my offence to his initial comment but it is what it is

From our conversation I like the guy
 
MidwestBeast

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As has already been pointed out, diet and training are key (as is rest!).

But if all of that is in order, tons of stuff can be effective at helping. Best part is there are so many different pathways to burn fat. There are a lot of "all-inclusive" type fat burners that have a lot of stuff in them and then some that are single ingredient or focused more on one pathway. You have stimulant-driven fat-burners focused on thermogenesis, as well as numerous other receptors/pathways.

Some great products have already been mentioned (Alphamine and Norcodrene are solid choices). Epitome utilizes a different pathway if you fall in the right bodyfat % range. You can increase testosterone, reduce estrogen and/or cortisol -- lots of products to do any of those, too. The Abliderate and Eviscerate topical products are good options, as well. Forskolin and many other individual ingredients are also useful.

So the short answer is -- diet, training and rest -- and beyond that, lots of other good stuff :)
 
MidwestBeast

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What range? And how is that range the target? If there's a writeup or something then cool
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/evomuse/262260-evomuse-presents-epitome.html

I know the write-up is in there somewhere, but can't remember what page. This is the snippet version:

Epitome is a brand new, cutting edge development in fat loss. It works in ways we've only previously been able to fantasize about. Epitome helps control appetite and accelerate fat burning by manipulation of the Leptin pathway. By increasing Leptin sensitivity and keeping Leptin levels within normal range, the brain and body self-adjust to drive your physique where it should be: Lean. Leptin signals will tell your body that it's not hungry while at the same time telling your brain to burn that fat!

With the additon of Queen Bee Acid, a component of Royal Jelly, we boost AMPk signals, literally causing the body to react as if you are smack dab in the middle of a heavy and demanding workout, causing additional acceleration of fat loss. Epitome is exactly what it promises - the epitome of fat loss.
The ranges are 20%+ and then sub 10-12% (the in between range is the "normal" range the body wants to be in, so it's less effective/useful there).
 
packers6211

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Besides calories and training, there are so many out there. I like Prosupps vexxum. It delivers a good energy but not to where I can't sleep later in the day. I also started consuming just about all carbs before 2 pm, and have lost around 8 lbs in 3 weeks from that.
 
Iron Warrior

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Ephedrine & Caffeine
Yohimbine HCL & Caffeine
Ephedrine, Yohimbine HCL, & Caffeine if you can handle it.

Biggest ingredients are patience and consistence IMO.
 

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1 x Vexxum + 2 x Shift - 7AM - (Empty Stomach)
2 x F-95 - 4PM - (Empty Stomach)
 
Jiigzz

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Who else is going to fund it?
MuscleTech
PES
Universal
Myokem?

It is being done at the University of North Carolina (i think)

look at companies like MT who publish the clear muscle study, who do you think will fund that? Not a competitor company. If you want to get research behind your product what company is going to do it. That company, not another one. Who would drop millions to invest in another company or publish their study?

Some random bum off the side of the street or some random scientist is not just going to invest in X study with Y product because he feels like it or has a good 8-10 weeks to run a trial on a product under certain conditions. The company will have to set that up and execute it to establish or back their claims on products.
This.

Funding does not imply bias or that data manipulation has occured.

We should all be thankful that some companies invest in actually backing their claims.

Human studies are costly

Editted
 
daniel11

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I always use Lipomorph. The way it burns fat is just fantastic. It's not like other typical fat burners. In fact you can stack it with others without issues; it's non-stim.

Personally my next cut will be Cobra-6 extreme + Lipomorph.

Everyone I have running it love it. Especially girls and anyone that's sensitive to stims. Or anyone that just needs to get rid of the stubborn fat.
 
The Solution

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This.

Funding does not imply bias or that data manipulation has occured.

People bash when no study supports a claim, but then also bash when the company puts money forward to fund a study. You simply cannot win
Same thing applies when studies are released to prove points
There will always be people for it, and against it, something you can not win.
 
Jiigzz

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I always use Lipomorph. The way it burns fat is just fantastic. It's not like other typical fat burners. In fact you can stack it with others without issues; it's non-stim.

Personally my next cut will be Cobra-6 extreme + Lipomorph.

Everyone I have running it love it. Especially girls and anyone that's sensitive to stims. Or anyone that just needs to get rid of the stubborn fat.
Antaeus labs is awesome!!
 
NattyForLife

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Ive used alphamine, norco, combustion, dcp 2.0, and EC! Recently started EC for the first time, and im blown away with the fat loss and appetite suppression! EC is the way to go if you dont have any heart conditions!
 
thebigt

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This.

Funding does not imply bias or that data manipulation has occured.

We should all be thankful that some companies invest in actually backing their claims.

Human studies are costly

Editted
we can thank mars chocolate company for all the research on epicatechins!!!!
 
KilaCali

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Were I to recommend a supplement for dieting it would be Norcodrene,

Appetite suppression and energy to help you stick to your diet which is the big picture[/QUOTE]

would you recommend this for a female? I have a 18 year old friend that needs a little motivation and wants to drop about 30lbs of weight, I know theres a lot more to it then that but I want to find her a good supplement and from the sounds of it, energy and appetite suppression is a big thing she needs, i'll be working with her 4-5 days a week. thanks
 
KilaCali

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Ive used alphamine, norco, combustion, dcp 2.0, and EC! Recently started EC for the first time, and im blown away with the fat loss and appetite suppression! EC is the way to go if you dont have any heart conditions!
what is this EC you speak of?
 
JeremyNG25

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Best of luck to you. I've done the whole bulk and cut thing naturally and let me tell you..without AAS you are going to lose mass. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. I don't care what anyone tells you it's going to happen. Idk how ephedrine effects muscle but your body has a genetic potential and as you lose fat your body is going to be more geared towards getting you closer to that genetic goal. The more fat you intend on losing the more your muscle is going to suffer. Next thing you know you're a lean 180 pounds again right where you started. I mean the industry wants you to believe that you can bulk and cut as a natural without losing strength and a **** load of muscle mass but I haven't seen that yet. I haven't even seen it with the guys with great genetics and the ones I have talked to stated to me pretty much " I did bulk and cut bulk and cut and it just wasmt working for me I kept losing all my mass. Then when I decided to cycle and use steroids during those cuts I was able to gain strength and keep most of my gains. It was a game changer" I've talked to multiple guys..some pros and some working on becoming pro and all of their stories were the same.
 
KilaCali

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Best of luck to you. I've done the whole bulk and cut thing naturally and let me tell you..without AAS you are going to lose mass. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. I don't care what anyone tells you it's going to happen. Idk how ephedrine effects muscle but your body has a genetic potential and as you lose fat your body is going to be more geared towards getting you closer to that genetic goal. The more fat you intend on losing the more your muscle is going to suffer. Next thing you know you're a lean 180 pounds again right where you started. I mean the industry wants you to believe that you can bulk and cut as a natural without losing strength and a **** load of muscle mass but I haven't seen that yet. I haven't even seen it with the guys with great genetics and the ones I have talked to stated to me pretty much " I did bulk and cut bulk and cut and it just wasmt working for me I kept losing all my mass. Then when I decided to cycle and use steroids during those cuts I was able to gain strength and keep most of my gains. It was a game changer" I've talked to multiple guys..some pros and some working on becoming pro and all of their stories were the same.
I can somewhat agree to this, your going to need a lot of protein and the right carbs well your cutting to hold on to any muscle, I think its best to bulk about 10lbs or more over where you want to be and then cut down then your able to retain most of what you want once you drop down to that weight you wanted, but it is hard without AAS but there are some good supplements out there and ithink mainly protein and good carbs is the key to holding on to as much muscle as you can in the process..
 
Matthew1237

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http: //orbitnutrition.com/cart/fat-burners/pes-new-alphamine-252-grams-raspberry-lemonade.html

I'm going to give this a shot over the summer.
 
daniel11

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I actually enjoyed using alpha mine when it first came out. It really put hunger aside for me.

I think Alphamine and Lipomorph would be a pretty damn effective fat loss stack. I might actually do this myself in a few weeks.
 

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