PA and joint issues?

[clint3612]

With the current PA vs ArA going on, I would say I like ArA but at 40 I'm having huge joint issues with it. How does PA treat people with joint issues?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Shouldnt directly cause or even antagonise existing issues; different MoA to ArA.

 

[clint3612]

That's great news, thanks! Even if ArA out performs marginally, if the PA doesn't keep me hurt then that's good news!

 

[NewAgeMayan]

That's great news, thanks! Even if ArA out performs marginally, if the PA doesn't keep me hurt then that's good news!

Thats a shame if ArA is giving you grief.

 

[LeanEngineer]

I'm not sure about PA but I agree I've had to use achilles by anteaus labs the past few times i've ran x gels because my joints ache.

 

[clint3612]

My first run went smoother but my second run has been uncomfortable to say the least. Whatever lil aches and pains you might have, gets much worse on ArA in my experience.

 

[clint3612]

What brand of Phosphatidic acid are people leaning to?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

What brand of Phosphatidic acid are people leaning to?

Whats your current budget and kcal allowance?

Lots of options, but essentially comes down to one choice: a more expensive (relatively speaking) PA 'concentrate', or a cheaper source (soy lecithin granules).

Big topic

 

[clint3612]

I viewed the link you sent me and it looked like guys were doing well with King. My budget is kinda open

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I viewed the link you sent me and it looked like guys were doing well with King. My budget is kinda open

Good, then buy some soy lecithin granules and use the rest of your supplement budget on other useful stuff.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I viewed the link you sent me and it looked like guys were doing well with King. My budget is kinda open

The "im on phosphatidic..." thread? If you had a read of it from the start, it wouldve been prior to soy lecithin granules hitting the scene, plus guys were probably talking about an older version of King.

There's pros and cons to either option here (ie running a PA concentrate, vs a PA source like soy lecithin granules).

Personally, just to minimise confounds, and to see if you wil enjot PA, and if money is not too much of an issue, Id recommend running a concentrate for a month or two. Id recommend purchasing a product that specifically lists 'Mediator' as an ingredient; that way you know how much PA you will be getting per dose of the product.

After that, if you like the stuff, maybe trial soy lecithin granules.

Edit: just saw musccleups post, either option is good, as I said pros/cons to both here

 

[muscleupcrohn]

The "im on phosphatidic..." thread? If you had a read of it from the start, it wouldve been prior to soy lecithin granules hitting the scene, plus guys were probably talking about an older version of King.

There's pros and cons to either option here (ie running a PA concentrate, vs a PA source like soy lecithin granules).

Personally, just to minimise confounds, and to see if you wil enjot PA, and if money is not too much of an issue, Id recommend running a concentrate for a month or two. Id recommend purchasing a product that specifically lists 'Mediator' as an ingredient; that way you know how much PA you will be getting per dose of the product.

After that, if you like the stuff, maybe trial soy lecithin granules.

Trying a Mediator PA supplement as an introduction to PA does seem like a good idea. From there you can see how the lecithin compares and play around with the dosing. I wouldn't say it's necessary, but, if nothing else, it'll add some sample size to the concentrated vs lecithin comparison.

Edit: At least for regular use, I'd rather take the money I save from going with the granules and spend it on other supplements and/or food. The cheapest PA product that lists 750mg is around $2 a day; with the money you save by going with the granules, you can add some more useful supplements to your stack. If you're running higher doses of PA, with the cost of concentrated supplements, I hope you have a lot of disposable income.

For what it's worth, PA and HMB-FA (along with frequent workouts) is An incredible combo. I've been consistently hitting PRs basically every workout with PA, and the HMB allows me to work out more frequently, so I can set more PRs, and make more progress, in less time. I'm taking both now, and just looking to add in a good joint supplement or two, since frequent training with a bit of volume can make my joints a bit sore.

My ideal stack (this summer) is likely going to be:
-PA (at least 3tbsp granules)
-HMB-FA
-Joint supplemement(s)
-Staples (creatine, betaine, beta alanine)

I'm not positive on what I'm doing for the joint stuff yet, but I do really like cissus, and I picked up a supplement with 1.5g glucosamine, some chondroitin, and MSM, and also some bromelain to go with it.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Trying a Mediator PA supplement as an introduction to PA does seem like a good idea. From there you can see how the lecithin compares and play around with the dosing. I wouldn't say it's necessary, but, if nothing else, it'll add some sample size to the concentrated vs lecithin comparison.

Seems I wrote my reply as you were posting yourself.

Yeah, main 'issue' Id have with starting off with granules is the PA content is not as precise as Mediator, and the confounding factor the other phospholipids potentially present. Of course, the Mediator products I have in mind have other ingredients too, so I guess there is no way around that

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Seems I wrote my reply as you were posting yourself.

Yeah, main 'issue' Id have with starting off with granules is the PA content is not as precise as Mediator, and the confounding factor the other phospholipids potentially present. Of course, the Mediator products I have in mind have other ingredients too, so I guess there is no way around that

Good points, but the other side of the argument is that if you're only focused on maximizing gains/progress from your PA source, you could just dose the granules at a few tbsp daily and be almost positive that you're getting a minimum of 750mg PA, or even a lot more depending on your dose, and still save a lot of money over going with 750mg from Mediator. I don't know how many people are concerned about the cofounding factors, as long as their supplement works for them at a good cost, considering that they are all definitely secondary to the PA itself.

 

[clint3612]

Ok, NewAge, knowing what you know right now, what brand should I get. I'm sorry I'm ignorant but this stuff. Foolishly, before I read the last comments I freakin ordered King.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Ok, NewAge, knowing what you know right now, what brand should I get. I'm sorry I'm ignorant but this stuff. Foolishly, before I read the last comments I freakin ordered King.

If you already ordered it, I'd run it as your only source of PA for at least 2 weeks. From there, you can add in some granules or replace it with granules to see how it compares. As long as you're fine with having 2 weeks with less than absolutely ideal (IMO) gains, that is.

 

[clint3612]

Ok, fair enough muscleup. I'll switch to the granules even though I don't really know what the hell they are LOL! Once more, can you give me your preferred brand, dosages, and maybe a good place to buy?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Ok, NewAge, knowing what you know right now, what brand should I get. I'm sorry I'm ignorant but this stuff. Foolishly, before I read the last comments I freakin ordered King.

Unfortunately, as muscleup indicated, because King does not use Mediator, and nor does it specify what the PA content of 'Activator' is, we dont know how much PA is actually in each dose.

The main in vivo study for PA used 750mg PA per day, so thats a minimum you want to aim for (dont know if you were aware or not).

The best priced Mediator product currently at market is Muscletech's Phosphamuscle; you can get a months worth for under 50$ if you look around.

If you decide to try soy lecithin granules, ideally go for deoiled, around 97% phosphatides. Most favoured (but not necessarily 'best') is Fearn, but there is also LEF, Nature's Plus, NOW, and more. De_eB and muscleup have pointed out that products such as these will innevitably contain on average 7% PA. A can cost anywhere from 8-15$.

 

[clint3612]

Thanks a lot guys with all this info!!

 

[NewAgeMayan]

All good, post back in one of the threads and let us know what granules you decide to get, and how youve been finding PA.

 

[NEBinAK]

I didn't have any joint issues while taking pa

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I didn't have any joint issues while taking pa

king?

 

[TheIronAsylum]

why would PA have anything to do with your joints or tendons?

 

[TheFugitive]

OP, I haven't noticed any type of joint discomfort with PA or SL

 

[clint3612]

Nice!