Norcodrene and Banned Substances - Help me out

kpeaceoutbye

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Is Norcdrene banned in USAPL?
 
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Synapsin

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So in my USAPL meet in 2 months and I want to know some more info about this before I possibly have to take a drug test. It will be my first meet and I see that beta-2 agonists are prohibited according to WADA (also, I think Higenamine is prohibited). I'm not 100% I emailed WADA and the USADA but didn't get a clear answer on it.

Anyways, I'm starting my 8-week cycle tomorrow and it's stacked with Forskolin trying to burn fat as best I can. So, how long before the meet would it be best to stop taking Norcodrene for the time being? What do you think the max time and absolute minimum times would be? I researched some people saying only like 4 hours before, while others say 3 days, but I want to be 100% sure and hear some more experienced thoughts.

Also, it will be my first USAPL meet and I am guessing it's just a urine test if that helps.
Urine test shouldn't be hard to pass although if you are worried, best to avoid it all together. What ingredients in norco are prohibited besides Higenamine?
 
bdcc

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I would always say to check with the governing body and if in doubt, avoid any supplement you aren't sure on.
 

kpeaceoutbye

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Well I am assuming USAPL just does a urine test (this is like a local meet so not a championship or state championship or anything). How long would it take to be out of my system? 1 day? 2, 3, maybe hours? Idk. My plan would be to just cut the 8-week cycle like 1, 2, 3, or however many days short at the end so it's all out of my system.

Synapsin : I believe just Higenamine from the information I have available.

I reached out to WADA and listed each ingredient in Norcodrene asking whether or not they are banned. Here is their response (nothing precise really):

Thank you for your message.

The product you are referring to falls into the supplements category. Please note that it is not in WADA’s mandate to endorse or regulate supplements. We do not control the quality or the claims of the supplements industry, including the product you are referring to.

Extreme caution is recommended regarding supplement use.

The use of supplements by athletes is a concern because in many countries the manufacturing and labeling of supplements may not follow strict rules, which may lead to a supplement containing an undeclared substance that is prohibited under anti-doping regulations. A significant number of positive tests have been attributed to the misuse of supplements and taking a poorly labeled supplement is not an adequate defense in a doping hearing.

More information on the risks involved in taking supplements can be found on our Web site at - (can't post link due to post count)

As with any medication or supplements inquiries, please direct further questions to your National Anti-Doping Organization (NADO) or National or International Federation (IF).

U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) can be reached at - (can't post link due to post count)

The International Powerlifting Federation (IPF) can be reached at – (can't post link due to post count)

Best regards,
So, I contacted USADA with the same thing. Here is their response (again, no one giving me a precise answer):

Caffeine is currently not on the WADA prohibited list. However, it must be noted that the intravenous infusion or injection of more than 50mL/6 hours of any substance is a prohibited method unless it is received during a hospital admission or a clinical investigation, even if the substance itself is not prohibited.

All the other ingredients that you have listed fall under the category of dietary supplements. USADA does not provide evaluation or guidance on the safety and/or WADA prohibited status of any dietary supplement, except for those USADA has discovered to be deliberately labeled or analyzed to contain WADA prohibited substances as per the USADA High Risk List (found at (can't post link due to post count)). If a product is NOT listed, it does NOT mean it is safe to take, or is devoid of prohibited substances according to the DSHEA current regulatory standards.
USADA does not advise on the safety and/or WADA prohibited status of dietary supplements because there is no practical way to continuously determine and monitor the contents of each and every individual dietary supplement product. All dietary supplements are used at the athlete’s own risk. The risk of contamination of a dietary supplement product with a prohibited substance is relatively high and must be taken seriously by athletes.

More information on dietary supplements can be found at USADA’s website. Finally, we encourage the review of our Red Flags document which outlines the dangers of misleading marketing and labeling strategies. The risk of testing positive from a dietary supplement or suffering a health problem is real based on deliberate or unintentional poor product development and manufacturing practices.

Thank you.
Not much help from either. I checked out the "High Risk List" and I see that Alphamine is on the list because the supplement facts says it contains "Higenamine HCl". In the comments column, it states "This product label lists a prohibited substance." I know this is not Nordocrene, but Norcodrene has an ingredient that is "standardized" for Higenamine. What's confusing about this is that it's a "High Risk" list, but in the comments it says a "prohibited substance" is listed. I just don't want this stuff to show up on a drug test for USAPL and I don't know who else to contact since these answers are so vague.
 
EMPIREMIND

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I wouldnt even risk it bro. Not worth it.
 
liftandswim

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Let's be honest. The likelihood that taking this supplement will improve your total even 15lbs (5lbs each lift) is fairly low. Not worth it.
 

kpeaceoutbye

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Let's be honest. The likelihood that taking this supplement will improve your total even 15lbs (5lbs each lift) is fairly low. Not worth it.
Well adding pounds on the total would be cool, but it's mostly for trying to lose body fat as best I can in combination with the Forskolin.

You don't think it'll be fine to just stop about 3 days before the meet and I'll be all good for a urine test?
 
liftandswim

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You don't think it'll be fine to just stop about 3 days before the meet and I'll be all good for a urine test?
Honestly, I have no clue. Sorry.

I'd forget about it. These are supplements, not PEDs. Whatever your goal may be, they're not going to make or break you. Best of luck at your meet! Total big, buddy.
 
EMPIREMIND

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Honestly you could just do straight caffiene and green tea those would help with your appetite.
 
frankz2

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I did not go very in depth on this but examine provides a couple studies indicating a half-life for higenamine of around .13 hours or roughly 8 minutes. I'm sure three days early is plenty of time unless there is a synergistic reaction causing a significant reduction in the degradation of higenamine.
 

kpeaceoutbye

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Yeah, I realize they won't make or break me, but I feel like based on some research that it would give me a bigger boost in reducing body fat than what my current diet is doing. Doing it for body fat reduction, but the appetite control is a bonus and I realize straight caffeine + GTE could do that as well. But the research looks promising with its ingredients (e.g., yohimbine) with caffeine + F95.

Anyways, I'll keep looking around. Seems like a week max is pretty safe but I'll keep looking and if anyone else finds something please let me know. I appreciate your guys' ^ responses. Thanks for the good luck!
 
EMPIREMIND

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Yeah, I realize they won't make or break me, but I feel like based on some research that it would give me a bigger boost in reducing body fat than what my current diet is doing. Doing it for body fat reduction, but the appetite control is a bonus and I realize straight caffeine + GTE could do that as well. But the research looks promising with its ingredients (e.g., yohimbine) with caffeine + F95.

Anyways, I'll keep looking around. Seems like a week max is pretty safe but I'll keep looking and if anyone else finds something please let me know. I appreciate your guys' ^ responses. Thanks for the good luck!
You just add in some yohimbine caps or run Target A2 (assuming they arent banned). Im saying if the higamine is the problem, dont risk it, just my opinion. It would suck if you got your rep tarnished for banned substances, im sure you work hard, why risk it.
 

kpeaceoutbye

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Sean1332 - My goal is just to retain strength and cut as much body fat as possible. This powerlifting meet is just for kinda fun and experience but I need to cut down as best I can for bb comps next year (I am thinking long-term here). So the next 10 weeks about 10 pounds or so. Plus, I guess it would help my 'best lifter' award if I can bring in a strong package at a lower weight. I want to build up on a more solid base when it's over.
EMPIREMIND - Yeah, I agree with that. But if it's all cleared out in a few days, and I stop a week early, I would be able to run it in 7 out of the 8 total weeks without a problem. Just weighing my options here :banana:
 
EMPIREMIND

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Sean1332 - My goal is just to retain strength and cut as much body fat as possible. This powerlifting meet is just for kinda fun and experience but I need to cut down as best I can for bb comps next year (I am thinking long-term here). So the next 10 weeks about 10 pounds or so. Plus, I guess it would help my 'best lifter' award if I can bring in a strong package at a lower weight. I want to build up on a more solid base when it's over.
EMPIREMIND - Yeah, I agree with that. But if it's all cleared out in a few days, and I stop a week early, I would be able to run it in 7 out of the 8 total weeks without a problem. Just weighing my options here :banana:
I hear u. Stay strong brother!
 
Synapsin

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Just think of it this way: if you somehow fail the test, how will that make you feel? Sometimes it is better to just play things safe.
 

kpeaceoutbye

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Just think of it this way: if you somehow fail the test, how will that make you feel? Sometimes it is better to just play things safe.
Yeah, I hear that. Just trying to get the effects of burning fat as best as I can before my next bulk. I'm trying to play things safe by stopping it early before the comp, so I guess you're right. I don't want it to go to waste since I bought Forskolin to stack it with Norco :eek:
 
jwsnowman

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Higenamine is a B2A....banned by WADA. I have discussed this with several natural bodybuilding orgs that are fully WADA compliant. Other natural orgs I checked with who do not use full WADA testing have banned particular B2As but not Higenamine.

I'm assuming the USAPL is fully WADA compliant so it would be banned. With regards to a urine test, I don't really know how long Higenamine would stay in your system to be at a detectable level in your urine, but if there is a lie detector test (natural bodybuilding orgs use them, not sure about powerlifting), you may be in for it as B2As are banned in and out of competition (with the exception of certain ones that can be medically prescribed).
 

kpeaceoutbye

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Higenamine is a B2A....banned by WADA. I have discussed this with several natural bodybuilding orgs that are fully WADA compliant. Other natural orgs I checked with who do not use full WADA testing have banned particular B2As but not Higenamine.

I'm assuming the USAPL is fully WADA compliant so it would be banned. With regards to a urine test, I don't really know how long Higenamine would stay in your system to be at a detectable level in your urine, but if there is a lie detector test (natural bodybuilding orgs use them, not sure about powerlifting), you may be in for it as B2As are banned in and out of competition (with the exception of certain ones that can be medically prescribed).
Hmm, thanks for that. So I guess all I need to know is the half-life, because about the 4th or 5th half life a drug (higenamine) would be fully cleared from my system I think? So if I knew the half-life of higenamine, then I can just figure out the time needed to flush out of my system I believe.
 
jwsnowman

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Hmm, thanks for that. So I guess all I need to know is the half-life, because about the 4th or 5th half life a drug (higenamine) would be fully cleared from my system I think? So if I knew the half-life of higenamine, then I can just figure out the time needed to flush out of my system I believe.
Or you could say it's not worth the risk and not use it at all lol. Decisions decisions.
 
frankz2

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Hmm, thanks for that. So I guess all I need to know is the half-life, because about the 4th or 5th half life a drug (higenamine) would be fully cleared from my system I think? So if I knew the half-life of higenamine, then I can just figure out the time needed to flush out of my system I believe.
I answered this for you on page one.
 

De__eB

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You probably shouldnt publicly post about trying to circumvent your drug test by using a banned substance for as long as possible up to your meet.
 

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