Early fasted training: BCAA vs Leucine vs nothing

[mvg17]

I love to train right after i wake up, cause thats when i am always available. Thus, i always trained fasted, do you guys thing it would be more optimal to add just leucine? or BCAA? or continue with nothing? Or maybe whey but i don't like to "eat" or "drink" anything with calories before i workout hence it makes me feel like puking while working out. Also would these make any noticeable actual differences?

 

[LeanEngineer]

I always down some bcaas if i do morning fasted workouts cause you've been in a catabolic state all night long so getting those bcaa's in your system to preserve muscle is essential in my opinion. Check out some at Strong Supplement Shop.

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/branched-chain-amino-acid-bcaas

 

[TyMan14]

Fasted or not I always use a couple scoops of Modern BCAA's intraworkout just because I like to drink something tasty while I lift and it can only benefit me.

When fasted, BCAAs can play a huge roll in muscle preservation/recovery. When training fasted on a cut, I feel like BCAA's have made a huge difference for me.

 

[kisaj]

I know BCAAs are sold as almost a requirement with fasted training, but I've done both and noticed no difference.

 

[machinehead]

I also found no difference BCAA vs none but ever since I started taking Intra-MD I cannot imagine training without it. I only train 'fasted' on Sundays though.

 

[heavylifter33]

The entirety of your diet plays a larger role in catabolism than 8-12 hours fasting before a workout. You won't be burning muscle for fuel if you lift in the morning without food. You could even do some cardio and you'd be fine. If you want/need energy, then BCAAs pre workout would be a decent addition. Or, pop some caffeine, bulk caffeine tabs are cheap. If you find you're doing just fine, then don't mess with it.

I've recently switched to IF, and am doing morning cardio before my feeding window. If i were to spend money on something it would probably be Ergonine. I have a bottle of iForce Compete which i use 2 scoops before cardio and i love it.

 

[AntM1564]

Some say BCAAs will help. However, if you meet your daily protein requirements, they are not needed.

 

[kbayne]

I love to train right after i wake up, cause thats when i am always available. Thus, i always trained fasted, do you guys thing it would be more optimal to add just leucine? or BCAA? or continue with nothing? Or maybe whey but i don't like to "eat" or "drink" anything with calories before i workout hence it makes me feel like puking while working out. Also would these make any noticeable actual differences?

3-5 grams of Leucine or 10-15 grams BCAA in a bolus pre-workout.

 

[Jakethaniel]

Depends on how long you are fasting for. If it is only around 8 hours then I would not worry about it, but much longer than that and you should consider throwing down some Leucine. For me it is Leucine > BCAA's.
I am currently fasting around 22 hours a day and I throw some down midday and pre-workout, it is working great for me.
It is not a necessity, but it should give you some increased protein synthesis which is awesome no matter your goal.

 

[hvactech]

I also found no difference BCAA vs none but ever since I started taking Intra-MD I cannot imagine training without it. I only train 'fasted' on Sundays though.

Its definitely the shizzz... what flavor?

 

[kisaj]

Depends on how long you are fasting for. If it is only around 8 hours then I would not worry about it, but much longer than that and you should consider throwing down some Leucine. For me it is Leucine > BCAA's.
I am currently fasting around 22 hours a day and I throw some down midday and pre-workout, it is working great for me.
It is not a necessity, but it should give you some increased protein synthesis which is awesome no matter your goal.

So you are essentially starving yourself and throwing in BCAAs. Got it. Lol, I think you mean 12 hours...I hope.

 

[hvactech]

Im still confused on the leucine > bcaas

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

Im still confused on the leucine > bcaas

same, don't you need the other BCAA's to maximize the effect of leucine and thus have a great affect on an individual?

 

[Jakethaniel]

So you are essentially starving yourself and throwing in BCAAs. Got it. Lol, I think you mean 12 hours...I hope.

Nope, 22 hours. I thought I would probably get some negative feedback mentioning that. lol
It is working really well for me. I am cutting, and strength is up/maintaining and muscle loss is pretty minimal. I have been doing it for a month and a half now.
I throw in 1-2 carb ups a week where the eating window is larger, but besides that I try to keep carbs below 30 grams and get everything in, in my 2 hour window post workout.

Do not get me wrong, I am not going to recommend it to anyone, but like I said it is working for me.

 

[machinehead]

Its definitely the shizzz... what flavor?

Orange. I haven't even opened the Grape yet.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Depends on how long you are fasting for. If it is only around 8 hours then I would not worry about it, but much longer than that and you should consider throwing down some Leucine. For me it is Leucine > BCAA's.
I am currently fasting around 22 hours a day and I throw some down midday and pre-workout, it is working great for me.
It is not a necessity, but it should give you some increased protein synthesis which is awesome no matter your goal.

Fasting for 22 hours a day, everyday?! How's that working for you? I would be so hungry I wouldn't be able to function...

 

[Jakethaniel]

Fasting for 22 hours a day, everyday?! How's that working for you? I would be so hungry I wouldn't be able to function...

I really do not want to derail this thread. lol
I said more about it up there in my second post, but it is going really well. I take some stuff for hunger suppression, but overall it is not really a problem for me. I also do a lot to optimize fat oxidation.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

From the McMasters Study, I'd rather down some solo Leucine, than BCAA's. L loses out to Iso-L and V for absorption.

 

[Jiigzz]

Nope, 22 hours. I thought I would probably get some negative feedback mentioning that. lol
It is working really well for me. I am cutting, and strength is up/maintaining and muscle loss is pretty minimal. I have been doing it for a month and a half now.
I throw in 1-2 carb ups a week where the eating window is larger, but besides that I try to keep carbs below 30 grams and get everything in, in my 2 hour window post workout.

Do not get me wrong, I am not going to recommend it to anyone, but like I said it is working for me.

You know there are studies showing that spacing protein intake is better for hypertrophy than bolus. This has also been discussed in the ISSN pages.

If it works for you then allgood and keep going, just bear in mind it isnt optimal

 

[Jakethaniel]

You know there are studies showing that spacing protein intake is better for hypertrophy than bolus. This has also been discussed in the ISSN pages.

If it works for you then allgood and keep going, just bear in mind it isnt optimal

I certainly agree, I really do not think fasting has much of a place when hypertrophy is the goal. Maybe pre-workout for optimal gh release.
I am not trying to achieve hypertrophy though, I am just trying to maintain while I cut which is why leucine is so effective for me because it activates mTOR.

 

[DarthGainer]

I fast for around 19 hours, Eat 1 massive meal and drink 1/2 - 1 gallon of milk over 5 hours. Optimal can also be the plan that you suites you. For me eating through the day makes me sluggish and I don't enjoy it so to me personaly thats not optimal.

I get the MPS not being optimal though, This is why I'm thinking of using Leucine/Hica every few hours and Amino iv pre/intra.

 

[healthfanatic]

High dose of leucine or bcaas, don't think it has a noticeable difference. ALCAR is also worth it on a cut for precardio.

 

[Jstrong20]

Leucine/ bcaa are something you have to try for yourself. Studies that back up effectiveness but some feel nothing from it. I personally can feel the diffrence in recovery from leucine regardless of cut or bulk but obviously even more important on a cut. I do construction/ demolition plus run a side buisness so I'm doing physical labor sun up to sun down sometimes and leucine is a life saver. Bcaa mix is fine to I usually just get the leucine cause it's cheaper and works just as well for me.

 

[Jstrong20]

Forgot to mention I'm going to give aminov a run next to see if the hica makes a diffrence. Also have heard good reviews on clear muscle on a cut. Ha sorry for the scatterd thoughts.

 

[Jiigzz]

FWIW SNS's Leucine is currently $30 at Np for 500gms.. Our closest competitor is the same price for half the servings

In saying that, AS has a very cheap deal on leucine tabs.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

...and the 3g scoop from the bulk Citrulline Malate works great for the bulk Leucine Get that 5g scoop out of there Jiigzz, Hahaha. The AS capsules are convenient, but don't meet my 'price per serv' threshold.

 

[cumminslifter]

depending on the timing since the last meal BCAA's can be very beneficial

 

[heavylifter33]

FWIW SNS's Leucine is currently $30 at Np for 500gms.. Our closest competitor is the same price for half the servings

In saying that, AS has a very cheap deal on leucine tabs.

Leucine for days.

 

[RecompMan]

I know BCAAs are sold as almost a requirement with fasted training, but I've done both and noticed no difference.

If im doing keto strict I do leucine/lysine combo

If you don't smell like acetone after a hard sesh, you're doing something wrong

 

[RecompMan]

Nope, 22 hours. I thought I would probably get some negative feedback mentioning that. lol It is working really well for me. I am cutting, and strength is up/maintaining and muscle loss is pretty minimal. I have been doing it for a month and a half now. I throw in 1-2 carb ups a week where the eating window is larger, but besides that I try to keep carbs below 30 grams and get everything in, in my 2 hour window post workout. Do not get me wrong, I am not going to recommend it to anyone, but like I said it is working for me.

I liked a 20/4 fast /eating window

When I am really into it there's a lot of ways

Intermittent fasting with an eat stop eat or alternat day fasting has a tremendous benefit on body composition

And you technically don't need to reduce calories

 

[RecompMan]

You know there are studies showing that spacing protein intake is better for hypertrophy than bolus. This has also been discussed in the ISSN pages. If it works for you then allgood and keep going, just bear in mind it isnt optimal

due to leucine levels from what I recall

Fasts like that should have a leucine/leucine peptide mix every 3-5 hours till meal

 

[DarthGainer]

due to leucine levels from what I recall

Fasts like that should have a leucine/leucine peptide mix every 3-5 hours till meal

I'm Training at 07:00 but not wanting to eat until 19.00/20.00 onwards. Do you think Using Leucine/Hica every few hours up until the meal would be beneficial?

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

I'm Training at 07:00 but not wanting to eat until 19.00/20.00 onwards. Do you think Using Leucine/Hica every few hours up until the meal would be beneficial?

using actual leucine would be better than hica. You should take a 3-5g bolus dose 3-5hours in between meals

 

[DarthGainer]

using actual leucine would be better than hica. You should take a 3-5g bolus dose 3-5hours in between meals

I understand the between meals thing but I fast all day then eat from 19.00 onwards. So there is no between meals for me. Its not that I'm purposely fasting to be honest, I just prepare eating late.

 

[kbayne]

I'm Training at 07:00 but not wanting to eat until 19.00/20.00 onwards. Do you think Using Leucine/Hica every few hours up until the meal would be beneficial?

You'd want Leucine/BCAA for this purpose. 3-5 grams Leucine or 10-15 grams BCAA.

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

I understand the between meals thing but I fast all day then eat from 19.00 onwards. So there is no between meals for me. Its not that I'm purposely fasting to be honest, I just prepare eating late.

no in between meals? what do you call the fast? it's the time between meals.

 

[hvactech]

I liked a 20/4 fast /eating window

When I am really into it there's a lot of ways

Intermittent fasting with an eat stop eat or alternat day fasting has a tremendous benefit on body composition

And you technically don't need to reduce calories

EOD fasting has been a huge interest of mine, not sure how id get through though

 

[RecompMan]

EOD fasting has been a huge interest of mine, not sure how id get through though

How I always did it....

Monday 12-8 windo
Tuesday 7pm meal
Repeat

 

[Segansational]

For fasted training, I've always been a fan of having aminos as part of my regimen. I tend to notice it more during fasted cardio than weight training. IMO EAA > BCAA > leucine. So you could look into something like Alpha Amino or Amino IV as options if you want to go the more complete route.

 

[Rocket3015]

I use a PWO with some BCAA added in, works well for me

 

[DarthGainer]

no in between meals? what do you call the fast? it's the time between meals.

Yeah i know but its sometimes 22 hours between meals lol. TBH I made my best gains in the past this way without leucine e.t.c but I will still give it a shot and see If I notice anything (but no natty now)

 

[DarthGainer]

You'd want Leucine/BCAA for this purpose. 3-5 grams Leucine or 10-15 grams BCAA.

Thanks Quads and Kbayne.


So would you say (after peri) every 3-4 hours leading up to the meal? Do you think 1 scoop of amino would do the job or add some Leucine too.

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

Thanks Quads and Kbayne.


So would you say (after peri) every 3-4 hours leading up to the meal? Do you think 1 scoop of amino would do the job or add some Leucine too.

1scoop of amino if it equates to about 3-5g leucine every 3-4hours leading up to meal would be optimal. However, any is better than none!

 

[DarthGainer]

Cheers Quads. Thats what I was wanting to hear

I will use 1 scoop plus 3g of Leucine just to make sure.

 

[dkgreene88]

I totally agree with LeanEngineer.
I especially tend to take them if I'm going to do fasted cardio

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Again, going back to the McMasters's study: Muscle protein synthesis was higher when Leucine was taken *without* Iso-Leucine and Valine. They compete for absorption. But I guess if you can't afford a tub of straight Leucine, BCAAs would be second best.

 

[DB1219]

I also train fasted and like the 16/8 window. Sometimes 20/4.On weekends I eat normal meals with the family. My question regarding BCAAs: do you guys consume them with food or keep amino acids separate? I used to like taking aminos separate (not sure why) but now I find myself gobbling food, vitamins, fish oil and BCAA's within an hour or two of each other. I just started a BCAA powder drink last month and I really cant tell a difference at this point.

 

[kbayne]

I also train fasted and like the 16/8 window. Sometimes 20/4.On weekends I eat normal meals with the family. My question regarding BCAAs: do you guys consume them with food or keep amino acids separate? I used to like taking aminos separate (not sure why) but now I find myself gobbling food, vitamins, fish oil and BCAA's within an hour or two of each other. I just started a BCAA powder drink last month and I really cant tell a difference at this point.

No reason to dose BCAA with food unless you're not getting adequate amount of protein to stimulate MPS.

 

[DB1219]

That's why I was doing it. I think I need to up my protein as I was focusing on fat loss and my protein intake has suffered.

 

[cumminslifter]

No reason to dose BCAA with food unless you're not getting adequate amount of protein to stimulate MPS.

this^ if you are going to eat whole food. simply consume more protein, or use whey. far superior over free form AA