How good is citrulline?... AT OPTIMAL DOSES

[BifWebster]

I have read for a while citrulline malate was a very effective supplement years ago, when beta alanine was starting to be talked about as well. I have used several preworkouts and BCAA drinks that include citrulline malate in it.(Optimum Platinum Pre, Xtend, and Purple Wraath.) I do believe they have definately increased endurance and pumps to an extent. It has always been paired with Beta-Alanine, which I have taken on it's own and has been very effective. I have been reading articles on the Citrulline Malate studies and they state the ballpark range for effective dosing is 6-8 grams daily! Few products come close to this. Looking at bulk supplies and products that do contain high amounts (Biotest / T-Nation's products / John Meadows New IntraWorkout ). It is not a cheap product even in bulk. Because of this, I am thinking of experimenting with it in bulk which would be the most economical bang for your buck. I am mostly looking for more energy / hydration and pump in my muscles to increase performance / definition / size. My question is who has experience with optimal dosing? What was the dosing pattern you were following? Any supplements stacked that could have led to these gains or lack thereoff? Any other thoughts on high dosing citrulline.

Thanks

 

[mr.cooper69]

Citrulline is extraorindarily effective for performance if dosed properly. 3-4g of L citrulline or 6-8g of citrulline malate

 

[LeanEngineer]

I use 8g of citrulline malate pre workout and I could a good pump from it for sure. Ha

 

[The Solution]

Citrulline is extraorindarily effective for performance if dosed properly. 3-4g of L citrulline or 6-8g of citrulline malate

Agree 100%
Decreases Lactic Acid Build up and aid in pumps, and dosed effectively in high volume

 

[machinehead]

I don't care so much for the pump as for the ammonia detoxification. It is a must have for me.

 

[frankz2]

Or you could just pick up CONQU3R which has a full 6g of citrulline malate include along with clinical dosing of many other ergogenic aids.

 

[The Solution]

Someone could say the same for High volume too ^^^

 

[kdubson14]

Add citrulline to your PWO until you get the squirts. Lower dose until you don't get the squirts. ??? Profit

 

[Chub]

Love me some high volume! stacking it with alphamine at the moment!

 

[frankz2]

Someone could say the same for High volume too ^^^

Agreed but you had already mentioned it in the post immediately prior while CONQU3R hadn't been brought up. Just presenting options.

 

[Distilled Water]

High Volume or Conqu3r are both solid options. SNS makes a bulk cit malate product that you could add to you favorite pre workout if the dose is less than optimal.

Its a must for me during prep. I split my dose of 8gr between my pre/intra drink. Great pumps and muscle endurance.

 

[johnnyp]

Or you could just pick up CONQU3R which has a full 6g of citrulline malate include along with clinical dosing of many other ergogenic aids.

Is the CM bonded or blended? I've seen it questioned a few times with mixed answers along the lines of blended CM not being the same or as effective as bonded citrulline malate.

 

[BifWebster]

Or you could just pick up CONQU3R which has a full 6g of citrulline malate include along with clinical dosing of many other ergogenic aids.

Yep. I saw a supplement recently and that what struck my curiosity as the dosage seemed very high - then looked up studies saying it's optimal. Going to have to pick up conqu3r or high volume soon. Both look like killer supps. Does carb intake really matter when dosing CM? Does it have any GDA type effects? Love that they both have agmatine in them too.

Any major differences between L-Citrulline and Citrulline Malate... in terms of effectiveness or variance to what they need to be dosed at?

 

[hiimnotcool]

Yep. I saw a supplement recently and that what struck my curiosity as the dosage seemed very high - then looked up studies saying it's optimal. Going to have to pick up conqu3r or high volume soon. Both look like killer supps. Does carb intake really matter when dosing CM? Does it have any GDA type effects? Love that they both have agmatine in them too.

Any major differences between L-Citrulline and Citrulline Malate... in terms of effectiveness or variance to what they need to be dosed at?

yes, for any given amount of l-citrulline you'd need to double the dose of CM to get the equivalent.

 

[bdcc]

Citrulline malate helps improve bench press performance and reduces subsequent DOMS:

Abstract
The purpose of the present study was to determine the effects of a single dose of citrulline malate (CM) on the performance of flat barbell bench presses as an anaerobic exercise and in terms of decreasing muscle soreness after exercise. Forty-one men performed 2 consecutive pectoral training session protocols (16 sets). The study was performed as a randomized, double-blind, 2-period crossover design. Eight grams of CM was used in 1 of the 2 training sessions and a placebo was used in the other. The subjects' resistance was tested using the repetitions to fatigue test, at 80% of their predetermined 1 repetition maximum (RM), in the 8 sets of flat barbell bench presses during the pectoral training session (S1-4 and S1'-4'). The p-value was 0.05. The number of repetitions showed a significant increase from placebo treatment to CM treatment from the third set evaluated (p <0.0001). This increase was positively correlated with the number of sets, achieving 52.92% more repetitions and the 100% of response in the last set (S4'). A significant decrease of 40% in muscle soreness at 24 hours and 48 hours after the pectoral training session and a higher percentage response than 90% was achieved with CM supplementation. The only side effect reported was a feeling of stomach discomfort in 14.63% of the subjects. We conclude that the use of CM might be useful to increase athletic performance in high-intensity anaerobic exercises with short rest times and to relieve postexercise muscle soreness. Thus, athletes undergoing intensive preparation involving a high level of training or in competitive events might profit from CM.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132

---

The thing with citrulline is, very few supplements use it at full ergogenic doses.

The problem with using it in a pre workout is, the biggest factor effecting what dose people use is what the stimulant feels like.

For example, if a product uses 8g of citrulline malate and 300mg caffeine some people will need to use half doses because 300mg caffeine is too much.

We talked about doing a caffeinated version of High Volume but it is very hard to keep all customers happy because of differences in dosing.

 

[schizm]

Is the CM bonded or blended? I've seen it questioned a few times with mixed answers along the lines of blended CM not being the same or as effective as bonded citrulline malate.

Willing to bet it's just blended, as is SNS cit mal, 2 parts citrulline to 1 part malate...making them bonded, not only would make the product exponentially higher $, but little to no change in effectiveness as well...not sure I've even seen anyone offer a bonded cit mal product...?

 

[frankz2]

Yep. I saw a supplement recently and that what struck my curiosity as the dosage seemed very high - then looked up studies saying it's optimal. Going to have to pick up conqu3r or high volume soon. Both look like killer supps. Does carb intake really matter when dosing CM? Does it have any GDA type effects? Love that they both have agmatine in them too. Any major differences between L-Citrulline and Citrulline Malate... in terms of effectiveness or variance to what they need to be dosed at?

I'm not aware of any GDA effect specific to citrulline malate. As for dosing, that would depends on the ratio used. As mentioned, ours is a 2:1 ratio.

 

[aaronuconn]

Yep. I saw a supplement recently and that what struck my curiosity as the dosage seemed very high - then looked up studies saying it's optimal. Going to have to pick up conqu3r or high volume soon. Both look like killer supps. Does carb intake really matter when dosing CM? Does it have any GDA type effects? Love that they both have agmatine in them too. Any major differences between L-Citrulline and Citrulline Malate... in terms of effectiveness or variance to what they need to be dosed at?

You don't need to dose with carbs.

3-4g Citrulline or 6-8g of Cit. Mal.

 

[johnnyp]

Willing to bet it's just blended, as is SNS cit mal, 2 parts citrulline to 1 part malate...making them bonded, not only would make the product exponentially higher $, but little to no change in effectiveness as well...not sure I've even seen anyone offer a bonded cit mal product...?

I've seen Stimol referenced specifically in studies http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/36/4/282.full while in others it wasn't specified so it would be my only guess as to a potential candidate.

 

[vujade]

My vote for Conqu3r & Pre Jym, both have 6g of Citruline Malate...

Conqu3r has a slightly better profile with additional Agmatine & Micro GMS. pumps are insane

 

[bdcc]

My vote for Conqu3r & Pre Jym, both have 6g of Citruline Malate...

Conqu3r has a slightly better profile with additional Agmatine & Micro GMS. pumps are insane

Just in case anyone is unaware, High Volume has 4g L-Citrulline (8g~ citrulline malate equivalent) i.e. the same dose which matches the study I quoted, above.

 

[Vj63]

Just in case anyone is unaware, High Volume has 4g L-Citrulline (8g~ citrulline malate equivalent) i.e. the same dose which matches the study I quoted, above.

Thanks for that info. I would have never even have thought about high volume if not for the other 4 or 5 times it was mentioned in this very thread,:thumbsup:

 

[bdcc]

Thanks for that info. I would have never even have thought about high volume if not for the other 4 or 5 times it was mentioned in this very thread,:thumbsup:

I assumed you didn't realise we used an 8g~ equivalent of citrulline malate because you were recommending products with a lower citrulline content.

 

[fightbackhxc]

I have read for a while citrulline malate was a very effective supplement years ago, when beta alanine was starting to be talked about as well. I have used several preworkouts and BCAA drinks that include citrulline malate in it.(Optimum Platinum Pre, Xtend, and Purple Wraath.) I do believe they have definately increased endurance and pumps to an extent. It has always been paired with Beta-Alanine, which I have taken on it's own and has been very effective. I have been reading articles on the Citrulline Malate studies and they state the ballpark range for effective dosing is 6-8 grams daily! Few products come close to this. Looking at bulk supplies and products that do contain high amounts (Biotest / T-Nation's products / John Meadows New IntraWorkout ). It is not a cheap product even in bulk. Because of this, I am thinking of experimenting with it in bulk which would be the most economical bang for your buck. I am mostly looking for more energy / hydration and pump in my muscles to increase performance / definition / size. My question is who has experience with optimal dosing? What was the dosing pattern you were following? Any supplements stacked that could have led to these gains or lack thereoff? Any other thoughts on high dosing citrulline.

Thanks

Our Citrulline is of great quality.

 

[Kickstart7]

You can check out our citrulline bulk powder. Great quality and a very good price for it .

http://livelongsupplements.com/collections/all-products/products/citrulline-malate-caps

 

[jaakonpallo]

Love this thread. Reps competing who gets their product mentioned more ,gotta get that last word in!

 

[Kickstart7]

Love this thread. Reps competing who gets their product mentioned more ,gotta get that last word in!

just offered it man . Idc if he buys it, it's his choice. Just an option. No need to be condescending.

 

[Spaniard]

Citrulline malate helps improve bench press performance and reduces subsequent DOMS:

Abstract
The purpose of the present study was to determine the effects of a single dose of citrulline malate (CM) on the performance of flat barbell bench presses as an anaerobic exercise and in terms of decreasing muscle soreness after exercise. Forty-one men performed 2 consecutive pectoral training session protocols (16 sets). The study was performed as a randomized, double-blind, 2-period crossover design. Eight grams of CM was used in 1 of the 2 training sessions and a placebo was used in the other. The subjects' resistance was tested using the repetitions to fatigue test, at 80% of their predetermined 1 repetition maximum (RM), in the 8 sets of flat barbell bench presses during the pectoral training session (S1-4 and S1'-4'). The p-value was 0.05. The number of repetitions showed a significant increase from placebo treatment to CM treatment from the third set evaluated (p <0.0001). This increase was positively correlated with the number of sets, achieving 52.92% more repetitions and the 100% of response in the last set (S4'). A significant decrease of 40% in muscle soreness at 24 hours and 48 hours after the pectoral training session and a higher percentage response than 90% was achieved with CM supplementation. The only side effect reported was a feeling of stomach discomfort in 14.63% of the subjects. We conclude that the use of CM might be useful to increase athletic performance in high-intensity anaerobic exercises with short rest times and to relieve postexercise muscle soreness. Thus, athletes undergoing intensive preparation involving a high level of training or in competitive events might profit from CM.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132

---

The thing with citrulline is, very few supplements use it at full ergogenic doses.

The problem with using it in a pre workout is, the biggest factor effecting what dose people use is what the stimulant feels like.

For example, if a product uses 8g of citrulline malate and 300mg caffeine some people will need to use half doses because 300mg caffeine is too much.

We talked about doing a caffeinated version of High Volume but it is very hard to keep all customers happy because of differences in dosing.

Good point man, that's exactly why we lowered the caffeine content of CONQU3R

My vote for Conqu3r & Pre Jym, both have 6g of Citruline Malate...

Conqu3r has a slightly better profile with additional Agmatine & Micro GMS. pumps are insane

Yes indeed =)

 

[totalpackage]

I've been using citrulline malate for years and I mix it in what ever pre-workout I'm using and I always go with 6 gm and
for me buying it in bulk is the way to go and Muscle Feast is the brand I've been using for a while now but two other brands
that I've used in the past that are reputable are SNS and PrimaForce and you can't go wrong with either one of the brands
I mentioned.

 

[fightbackhxc]

just offered it man . Idc if he buys it, it's his choice. Just an option. No need to be condescending.

He doesn't get the fact that companies pay money to advertise on this forum and suggesting products is simply a means of informing the consumer and reminding them that your company offers certain products. I guess if he doesn't like that he should go create his own forum without corporate sponsorships.

 

[Kickstart7]

He doesn't get the fact that companies pay money to advertise on this forum and suggesting products is simply a means of informing the consumer and reminding them that your company offers certain products. I guess if he doesn't like that he should go create his own forum without corporate sponsorships.

thanks for that fightback! Shot him a good ole PM lol. I don't think he'll be back on anytime soon

 

[Monte Brogan]

thanks for that fightback! Shot him a good ole PM lol. I don't think he'll be back on anytime soon

You "don't think he'll be back on anytime soon?" Meaning what, exactly? Did you tell him to leave because you didn't like what he said?

 

[jaakonpallo]

You "don't think he'll be back on anytime soon?" Meaning what, exactly? Did you tell him to leave because you didn't like what he said?

Yes, he's forcing me to go back to b********.com &#55357;&#56834;.i had no idea why and who pm'd me at first..well it was funny to say the least. First time ever getting hostile pm from someone.

 

[Kickstart7]

Yes, he's forcing me to go back to b********.com ?.i had no idea why and who pm'd me at first..well it was funny to say the least. First time ever getting hostile pm from someone.

you don't contribute to this forum whatsoever, all you do is complain.

 

[totalpackage]

Our Citrulline is of great quality.

I have NOTHING to do with any companies but I'll tell you this SNS does make a quality citrulline malate and a bunch of
other good supplements and I'm a huge supplement consumer and my cabinet always has a few SNS products on hand
and they are priced quite well. AGAIN I AM NO REP just a consumer and SNS is a good one for bulk supplements at decent $.

 

[jaakonpallo]

Kickstart7 Please stop harassing me on pm.
They are funny but creepy xD

 

[Kickstart7]

Kickstart7 Please stop harassing me on pm. They are funny but creepy xD

I'm not lol

 

[jwsnowman]

Question regarding L-Citruline in High Volume specifically. I've noticed that dosing 1 scoop of HV I have no issues but about 2 hours or so after dosing 2 scoops of HV, I better be near a bathroom or I'm in trouble. I'm wondering if it could be the high dose L-Cit or potentially the high dose of Vitamin C. It's the highest single dose of vitamin C I think I've taken at one time when I 2 scoop HV.

I also noticed the same thing with ANS Dilate (newer powdered version), however, I didn't notice it with Komodo Vaskular.

In 2 scoops, HV contains:
Vitamin C 250mg
L-Citruline 4g
HydroMax (65%) ? (contained in 3.75g blend) = ? glycerol but most likely less than either of the others if you examine the blend.

result: disaster pants

In 2 scoops, Dilate contains:
Vitamin C 200mg
L-Citruline 3g
Hydromax (65%) 4g = 2.6g glycerol
result: disaster pants, but not quite as bad as HV

In 1 scoop Vaskular (max dose)
No Vitamin C
L-Citruline 3g
HydroVask (75%) 2.5g = 1.875g glycerol
Result: No issues

So....3g L-citruline in vascular causes no problems but the same dose of l-citruline in dilate does, however, there is no vitamin c in vascular.

HV has more l-cit again over the others plus the vit c, however, when I cut it to a single scoop bringing the l-cit to less than the dose as the others, I have no issues.

The other thing that is different is the % of glycerol used. The two products I have issues with use Hydromax which is a lower % than the HydroVask in vascular which provides less active glycerol in total so I can't see that being the issue.

Anyone able to shed some light on this maybe?

 

[muree]

2 scoops HV contains 4g of L citrulline not 6g

 

[jwsnowman]

2 scoops HV contains 4g of L citrulline not 6g

Whoops my bad....not sure where I pulled 6g from.

 

[jwsnowman]

2 scoops HV contains 4g of L citrulline not 6g

Fixed lol.

Basically....my question is whether that extra 1g of l-cit could be the culprit or is it the high dose vit c?

 

[paula]

Just got my HV 2nd tub, i just add 1scoop of pure l-citrulline frm komodo nutraceutical which is 3grams pump was so addicting. Dont like the l-citrulline to mix it with HV, taste different. I jist put a scoop in my mouth , smells like sperm semen lol kind a weird.

 

[jaakonpallo]

Sperm semen..lol..i'll take your word for it.

 

[paula]

Sperm semen..lol..i'll take your word for it.

Lol sorry, what i mean is sperm cell