When to take NA-R-ALA?

[uwotmate]

for bulking and trying to minimize fat gains, when is the best time to take NA-R-ALA?

after workout at midnight i take my whey shake. then 1 hr later a big carb meal. is it fine to take the ALA with said carb meal? or is taking it too close to post workout not good?

and is 400mg too big of a dose at once? my caps come in 200mg doses

 

[Swolbraham]

I'd do 200mg, and with the post carb meal works. I actually emailed john meadows about that and he recommended me to take one 150mg dose with my ore workout meal, then I have carbs and protein intra, protein shake post and then a huge carb Neal after (about 200g) and I dose 300mg about 10 mins prior

 

[AntM1564]

I was under the impression, it should not be taken post workout.

 

[Jackedjack]

I was under the impression, it should not be taken post workout.

Any particular reason

 

[Swolbraham]

I was under the impression, it should not be taken post workout.

As was I but I know john wrote about himself dosing it post workout. I'll copy and paste his response in here

 

[Swolbraham]

"yea ALA is the only exception I make to that..I absolutely don't like megadosing Vit C and/e near training as it does limit the inflammatory affect you need for hypertrophy"

Before that I asked if dosing it would be a good idea and he said he would recommend it and two doses of 150-300mg a day would be plenty, each dose about 5-10m before meals

 

[uwotmate]

did he include why he thinks its fine to do post workout?

from what ive read everyone says to not dose at post workout (u want to raise insulin levels post workout n dosing it at that time would do the opposite)

 

[kbayne]

I would either do one 400mg dose prior to a high carb meal in the morning or dose 200mg prior to two carb meals throughout the day. The half life is anywhere from 17-22 hours FYI.

Personally don't see the need to dose post-workout when insulin sensitivity is already elevated.

At what times do you consume carbohydrates?

 

[uwotmate]

the only high carb meals i eat is dinner and 1hr after workout. not hungry after waking up (wake up at like 2-3pm) so dont eat much for lunch

dinner is around 7pm then workout around 11pm then eat 1hr after workout

ive been dosing 400mg prior to dinner

 

[Swolbraham]

did he include why he thinks its fine to do post workout?

from what ive read everyone says to not dose at post workout (u want to raise insulin levels post workout n dosing it at that time would do the opposite)

Just would recommend it in terms of clearing glucose faster.

I didn't ask but I would think the reasoning is muscle tissue is sensitive to glucose and the Na R ALA would speed the glucose to muscle cells. That s my thinking though. I mean that s what he suggested and he's a smart guy lol I'm gonna go with Mr Meadows

 

[nattydisaster]

I wonder what the half life of Na-R-ALA is? That would be one thing to consider here. A quick search only comes up with some guy on a forum saying 17-22 hours, but did not list a source. If this were true dosing specifically around meals throughout the day would not be important...but I don't know if this is true. I believe some older studies on regular ALA show it has a pretty short half life, in which case timing around meals would be important

 

[Swolbraham]

I wonder the same. I shall email geronova lol

 

[kbayne]

ALA does have a very short half life (20-30 minutes) from what I've read.

 

[AntM1564]

I would either do one 400mg dose prior to a high carb meal in the morning or dose 200mg prior to two carb meals throughout the day. The half life is anywhere from 17-22 hours FYI.

Personally don't see the need to dose post-workout when insulin sensitivity is already elevated.

At what times do you consume carbohydrates?

That's why I don't dose it post workout.

 

[alland]

500mgs of agamatine and cheap ala works great for me. Ive never noticed a difference between the r isomer vs mixed if the dose is high enough (300-400mgs ala) both agmatine and ala work well..but together...i feel pumped similar to taking an oral aas all the time.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I emailed GeroNova regarding dosing and half life and whatnot, their reply:

"Dosing has nothing to do with the 1/2 life actually, but most people take 100-600 mg day. Best taken at one time, not several times a day.
It is about 1.5 hrs."

Now, Im not sure they have the 'nutrient partitioning' effects of the ingredient in mind when they make this recommendation *shrug*

 

[Swolbraham]

my response from Geronova:

"C Max is 15 min.

Detectable in plasma for 3 hours so the half life is approx an 1.5 hours.

In the body we can't say as there are several discrepancies in papers written.

Best,"

 

[NewAgeMayan]

any idea why they are advocating a single dose as 'best'?

 

[Swolbraham]

any idea why they are advocating a single dose as 'best'?

i'm assuming they're not looking at it in regards to bodybuilding purposes (insulin sensitivity, GDA properties) but perhaps it's other health benefits?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

yes, well thats what I assumed too.

Dunno where the 17-20hr half life originated...

 

[Swolbraham]

yes, well thats what I assumed too.

Dunno where the 17-20hr half life originated...

Yeah lol apparently opposite end of the spectrum

 

[mr.cooper69]

yes, well thats what I assumed too.

Dunno where the 17-20hr half life originated...

That's the terminal elimination. Remember, Na-r-ala does NOTHING in the plasma, so we don't care about half-life. We care about how long it resides in the tissues, which is reflected by terminal elimination.

People on the forums are slightly obsessed with examining half-lives. For most of what we ingest, half-life doesn't matter because the compounds act within the cell, not in the bloodstream. Half-life is more relevant to stimulants and such which need to be in the bloodstream to agonize their respective receptors

 

[mr.cooper69]

I emailed GeroNova regarding dosing and half life and whatnot, their reply:

"Dosing has nothing to do with the 1/2 life actually, but most people take 100-600 mg day. Best taken at one time, not several times a day.
It is about 1.5 hrs."

Now, Im not sure they have the 'nutrient partitioning' effects of the ingredient in mind when they make this recommendation *shrug*

Didn't see this post before, but now you know why dosing has nothing to do with half-life. Half-life really isn't a very useful tool for anything that is tissue specific

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Didn't see this post before, but now you know why dosing has nothing to do with half-life. Half-life really isn't a very useful tool for anything that is tissue specific

Cool, thanks. It seems I was conflating 'half life' and 'terminal elimination'. In my defense, though, you yourself have made previous posts regarding the *half life* of narala (and your figure was the longer 20hr one).

Anyway, dosing...if one can be bothered should they still split dose the ingredient prior to carb meals if the goal is gda/partitioning?

 

[De__eB]

Didn't see this post before, but now you know why dosing has nothing to do with half-life. Half-life really isn't a very useful tool for anything that is tissue specific

Maybe if we all try really hard and start talking about delivery kinetics obsessively, we can make it the new buzzword for 2015 and relegate plasma half-life to 2014.

 

[Jiigzz]

Maybe if we all try really hard and start talking about delivery kinetics obsessively, we can make it the new buzzword for 2015 and relegate plasma half-life to 2014.

Lol

 

[RecompMan]

I would either do one 400mg dose prior to a high carb meal in the morning or dose 200mg prior to two carb meals throughout the day. The half life is anywhere from 17-22 hours FYI. Personally don't see the need to dose post-workout when insulin sensitivity is already elevated. At what times do you consume carbohydrates?

That's why mp is good keeps that metabolic shift to keep burning fat

 

[De__eB]

Lol

Interesting, tell me more.

What would you say the half-life of your 'lol was, did it diminish to a mere chuckle within seconds?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Cool, thanks. It seems I was conflating 'half life' and 'terminal elimination'. In my defense, though, you yourself have made previous posts regarding the *half life* of narala (and your figure was the longer 20hr one).

Anyway, dosing...if one can be bothered should they still split dose the ingredient prior to carb meals if the goal is gda/partitioning?

I did say half life, that is, terminal halflife. What's being cited here is plasma halflife. Yeah I still split doses before carb meals

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I did say half life, that is, terminal halflife. What's being cited here is plasma halflife.

Right you are

Yeah I still split doses before carb meals

Think thats what Ill do, too. Have you read some companies (who use GeroNova lipoic acid) claim that dosing naRala with creatine can improve the efficacy of the latter (increase absorption?)? What do you make of that?

 

[kbayne]

Right you are Think thats what Ill do, too. Have you read some companies (who use GeroNova lipoic acid) claim that dosing naRala with creatine can improve the efficacy of the latter (increase absorption?)? What do you make of that?

Haven't heard of that. But there shouldn't be an issue with absorption and Na-RALA.

 

[ma70]

Think thats what Ill do, too. Have you read some companies (who use GeroNova lipoic acid) claim that dosing naRala with creatine can improve the efficacy of the latter (increase absorption?)? What do you make of that?

I know it's not Coop, but Mixelflick is pretty knowledgable so I'll just post this quote here.

R-ALA/Biotin/Creatine Uptake



It’s unquestionably the R isomer of alpha-lipoic acid that displays greater bioligical activity [Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.].

There's also evidence it facilitates greater creatine storage*. That, along with it's other benefits, warrants it's inclusion….

*Alpha-Lipoic Acid boosts effect of creatine

It's in a supplement he makes, but I removed all references to it just to make sure I don't cause issues here.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

wow, the guys in that study took 4gm a-la per day (dunno, tho, what the conversion difference is between a-la and naRala)

Those studies in the link are also over 15yrs old, so itd be interesting to know how they still stand now if MrC dosnt mind offering up his thoughts...

 

[ma70]

wow, the guys in that study took 4gm a-la per day (dunno, tho, what the conversion difference is between a-la and naRala)

Those studies in the link are also over 15yrs old, so itd be interesting to know how they still stand now if MrC dosnt mind offering up his thoughts...

People seem to triple the does of normal R-ALA vs Na-R-ALA.

 

[breezy11]

People seem to triple the does of normal R-ALA vs Na-R-ALA.

With ALA, I'll typically dose 900mg before carb heavy meals.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Anyone that has purchased the GeroNova 100gm tubs...are you transferring some into a smaller 'everyday' container so as to try and preserve the integrity of the ingredient? And are you storing the containers in the fridge (I cant recall if the recommended storage is room temp or not)

 

[uwotmate]

what is the minimum amount of time youd want to space out between dosing 400mg and working out?