Supplement Recommendations Needed

[danielcho]

Hey guys, need your help.

My name's Daniel.

Here's some background information:
- Age: 18 years old
- Height: 5'6
- Weight: 160 Pounds
- Body Fat %: 14%
- Experience: 4-5 Years
- Strength PR's: 400 Squat, 245 Bench
Press and 490 Deadlift

My problem:
- I get the DYEL reaction when I say I workout.
- I've never really seen significant gains, even as a complete beginner.
- Slowly starting to lose motivation... I try so hard with such microscopic results.
It's unbelievably frustrating.
- Pretty darn sure I have low testosterone levels

Goals:
- Be Ripped with Visible Muscles

What supplements would you recommend?

Whatever product I choose, I'll log my progress and results here.

Thanks! Hope to get more involved in this forum and learn from you all.

 

[LeanEngineer]

Browse around over at http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/
I'd recommend of course getting the basics protein, multi, creatine, NO booster, amino acid and experiment with natural anabolics if your going the supplement route. But there's tons of good products at Strong Supplement Shop that will help you build muscle.

 

[danielcho]

I take all the basics you listed.

What natural anabolics would you recommend?

Appreciate the response, I'll look into the site. Repped btw

 

[heavylifter33]

Have you had a blood test to determine your hormone levels? Do that first.

Hormones play less of a role in muscle building than you may think. If you're not making progress, your diet is not on point. It's usually as simple as that.

 

[Dma378]

Well at 18 years old and 160lbs., you at least have some strong lifts to show for it. Food, and the right kinds and amounts of it are probably your best friend. But agree with above. Get some bloodwork done so it's not a guessing game. Know what you're dealing with naturally and that can be your greatest weapon.

 

[The Solution]

Have you had a blood test to determine your hormone levels? Do that first.

Hormones play less of a role in muscle building than you may think. If you're not making progress, your diet is not on point. It's usually as simple as that.

Well at 18 years old and 160lbs., you at least have some strong lifts to show for it. Food, and the right kinds and amounts of it are probably your best friend. But agree with above. Get some bloodwork done so it's not a guessing game. Know what you're dealing with naturally and that can be your greatest weapon.

^^ this
not many people at 18 can DL almost 500 pounds and squat over 400

Just focus on a caloric deficit, a good multi, fishoil, creatine and protein powder. you will be set. let the diet and training do the work.

 

[danielcho]

That's what I've been telling myself for the past 5 years haha

And I don't view my lifts as impressive as I'll rather look strong than be strong.
I know guys who struggle to bench press 135 that are ripped and have a bigger upper body than me.

Appreciate the responses.

 

[The Solution]

That's what I've been telling myself for the past 5 years haha

And I don't view my lifts as impressive as I'll rather look strong than be strong.
I know guys who struggle to bench press 135 that are ripped and have a bigger upper body than me.

Appreciate the responses.

Getting ripped is all diet bro. Not many people at 18 can lift that much. You are strong, if you wanna keep the strength gonna have to keep lifting heavy and just take it slow with the diet and the deficit.

 

[danielcho]

I know progress will be slow being natural...but there is barely any difference from when I started and now.

My lifts have completely skyrocketed but with unnoticeable muscle gains.

I just feel somethings wrong...

 

[AntM1564]

Hey guys, need your help.

My name's Daniel.

Here's some background information:
- Age: 18 years old
- Height: 5'6
- Weight: 160 Pounds
- Body Fat %: 14%
- Experience: 4-5 Years
- Strength PR's: 400 Squat, 245 Bench
Press and 490 Deadlift

My problem:
- I get the DYEL reaction when I say I workout.
- I've never really seen significant gains, even as a complete beginner.
- Slowly starting to lose motivation... I try so hard with such microscopic results.
It's unbelievably frustrating.
- Pretty darn sure I have low testosterone levels

Goals:
- Be Ripped with Visible Muscles

What supplements would you recommend?

Whatever product I choose, I'll log my progress and results here.

Thanks! Hope to get more involved in this forum and learn from you all.

Look at what I have in bold. I would suggest investing in patience. Bobdybuilding and fitness in general is a long process that takes dedication and consistency. It's not a shot at you, but it sounds like you're looking for a quick fix. You're young, just stick with the basics, eat, lift, and be consistent.

 

[danielcho]

Thank you for the response AntM1564, really appreciate it.

Honestly, I simply am trying to get an edge and see results quicker. But isn't that the goal of most people on testosterone boosters, pro hormones, etc?

I've been hearing a lot about products like AlphaMax on here. Would a supplement like Alphamax not benefit me?

You don't recommend any supplements for me?

Thanks again

 

[healthfanatic]

At 18 your hormone levels SHOULD be crazy high, however only a doc can verify that. Personally, I'm 5'11" and 185 at 13% bf so I'm similar to you, just a little taller. What got me over the hump was several things: drinking a lot of water (every chemical reaction in the body from food and supplements involves water); eating every 3-4 hours. 40/40/20 protein carb fat ratio. Don't ever lower carbs and eat as much whole food as possible. As for supps, a mv, creatine, and protein powder if necessary. Doing this got me from 160-180. I know it sounds simple and repetitive, but thought I'd share.

 

[amarula]

Wich training protocol are you using? Just low reps? Maybe you should change that

 

[804]

EAT.

 

[danielcho]

Thanks for sharing your experience

I'll definitely keep those tips in mind.

Do you mind answering, what was your workout routine?

 

[danielcho]

Eat? I've done that before haha
I went on like a 11 month dirty bulk where I went from 145 to 175.

Now I'm cutting on Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss and I've lost 15 pounds. But...once the fat was gone, I realized I hadn't built much muscle.

 

[danielcho]

I'm currently doing three full body routines. (Similar to HST)

I'm cutting so mostly low reps to maintain strength.

 

[danielcho]

I want to do a check up with a doctor, however I'm not really in the financial situation to be able to.

 

[Dma378]

I'm currently doing three full body routines. (Similar to HST) I'm cutting so mostly low reps to maintain strength.

The best cut I've ever done was with a high volume oriented workout. Really changed my physique. Yes I lost overall 1RM strength, but you say you would rather look like you lift heavy than actually lift heavy.

 

[danielcho]

Thanks!

Could you please share your workouts?

Gonna experiment with volume.

I was just following Lyle's guidelines.

 

[804]

Try high rep super setting with no breaks

 

[Dma378]

Here is the exact layout I used.

1. Bench or DB Press 10 x 10
Deadlifts 7 x 10
(Some chest and ab accessory work)

2. Pull-ups x 10 sets AMRAP
Shoulder Press 10 x 10
BB Curl 10 x 10

3. Dips 10 x 10 (weighted)
Squats 10 x 10
(Tricep and ab accessory work)

OFF

4. Chest/Back/Arms strength day

5. Shoulders/Legs strength day

OFF

It's like a GVT hybrid routine.

 

[danielcho]

Seems brutal...haha

Thanks, never really thought of working out like that.

 

[The Solution]

At 18 your hormone levels SHOULD be crazy high, however only a doc can verify that. Personally, I'm 5'11" and 185 at 13% bf so I'm similar to you, just a little taller. What got me over the hump was several things: drinking a lot of water (every chemical reaction in the body from food and supplements involves water); eating every 3-4 hours. 40/40/20 protein carb fat ratio. Don't ever lower carbs and eat as much whole food as possible. As for supps, a mv, creatine, and protein powder if necessary. Doing this got me from 160-180. I know it sounds simple and repetitive, but thought I'd share.

exactly
if you want to gain size you need to eat for it.. Supplements play the MINORITY in your progress. Nothing replaces diet or training.

 

[Dma378]

The weight you have to start with is humbling. On Bench 10 x 10 my first week I could only do 155 for 10 sets. By week 6 I was at 205 x 10 x 10.
Pull-ups same, first week my 10 set total was like 30-40 something. After 6 weeks it was in the low 70's.

 

[danielcho]

I thought prohormones and testosterone boosters could really change your physique if diet and training is good?

 

[danielcho]

The weight you have to start with is humbling. On Bench 10 x 10 my first week I could only do 155 for 10 sets. By week 6 I was at 205 x 10 x 10.
Pull-ups same, first week my 10 set total was like 30-40 something. After 6 weeks it was in the low 70's.

I'll keep that mind. Thanks!

What supplements did you take?

 

[The Solution]

I thought prohormones and testosterone boosters could really change your physique if diet and training is good?

at 18 why bother with PH's? if you are making good progress right now that is fine.
Your motivation comes from your mental focus and mindset. Maybe you should take some time off to recharge the batteries and push forward.

 

[Dma378]

Ep1c. Along with a 300 calorie deficit. Which I don't recommend for you. At your age, find your maintenance calories and eat slightly above with a routine like that. SLIGHTLY. Do some HIIT twice a week to give your metabolism a boost for burning fat.

 

[danielcho]

Good progress? Nope! Haha
That was my issue, unnoticeable progress.

I mean my motivation and focus is great IMO. I pretty much never go off diet, training schedule, and am always thinking about training.
I really love dieting and weightlifting.

But due to my invisible muscle gains, I just thought maybe I had low testosterone or something.

This is why I joined the forum.

 

[danielcho]

Ep1c. Along with a 300 calorie deficit. Which I don't recommend for you. At your age, find your maintenance calories and eat slightly above with a routine like that. SLIGHTLY. Do some HIIT twice a week to give your metabolism a boost for burning fat.

Thank you so much again for your help.

Everyone here's been helping me understand tremendously.

I might plan on starting a training log soon based on your training advice.
Hopefully I can learn more and maybe find faults in my diet and training.

 

[The Solution]

My problem:

- Slowly starting to lose motivation... I try so hard with such microscopic results.
It's unbelievably frustrating.
- Pretty darn sure I have low testosterone levels

Go.

I mean my motivation and focus is great IMO. I pretty much never go off diet, training schedule, and am always thinking about training.
I really love dieting and weightlifting.

But due to my invisible muscle gains, I just thought maybe I had low testosterone or something.

This is why I joined the forum.

Um...
thats not what you said...
If you have low issues, then seek an endo
Problem solved.

 

[danielcho]

Um...
thats not what you said...
If you have low issues, then seek an endo
Problem solved.

Becoming frustrated with your results isn't a problem unless it's causing you start going off your diet and training schedule.

Although it's hard and frustrating seeing little results, I've been following workout plans and diets to the best I can.

I didn't mean that I'm starting to give up, just saying it's tough.

 

[804]

I would also take a look in the supplement and workout logs section... there should be plenty of trial and error in there for you to study up and figure out a plan.

 

[danielcho]

Thanks, yeah that's what I've been trying to do.

Honestly, I get kind of lost in the forums.
I know nothing about cycles, prohormones, pct, and the supplements discussed in the forums. Trying my best to understand.

 

[Dma378]

There are definitely many natural supplements that we could all recommend to a young man like yourself. But the hesitation comes because once you start relying on these supplements, natural or not, it is hard to go back. They become a crutch. And expensive. Don't get me wrong, I'm constantly using supps, natural and not natural. And I am hooked in the cycle of it all. But I'm almost 37 and need the edge. Wait as long as you can bro. Study the art of training and dieting. Supplements fall into 3rd place behind those 2 in the importance of things. Not trying to sound repetative, but don't get sucked in yet.

 

[804]

Thanks, yeah that's what I've been trying to do.

Honestly, I get kind of lost in the forums.
I know nothing about cycles, prohormones, pct, and the supplements discussed in the forums. Trying my best to understand.

Check out some of my old logs - you might find some of the volume training I was talking about.. and some bulking/ cutting.

 

[danielcho]

Check out some of my old logs - you might find some of the volume training I was talking about.. and some bulking/ cutting.

I'll look into them!

I'm guessing all of y'all recommend a high volume program for me like GVT.

Is volume more important than strength?

I guess I was brainwashed by power lifters that say to focus on progressive overload and programming to build muscle. I've always believed high volume programs of endless exercises only worked for enhanced lifters. To what extent is this true?

 

[danielcho]

There are definitely many natural supplements that we could all recommend to a young man like yourself. But the hesitation comes because once you start relying on these supplements, natural or not, it is hard to go back. They become a crutch. And expensive. Don't get me wrong, I'm constantly using supps, natural and not natural. And I am hooked in the cycle of it all. But I'm almost 37 and need the edge. Wait as long as you can bro. Study the art of training and dieting. Supplements fall into 3rd place behind those 2 in the importance of things. Not trying to sound repetative, but don't get sucked in yet.

I'll try my best to make the right decision after consideration of everything.

But wouldn't supplements take my physique to a level that can't be reached naturally?

Like no matter how hard you try naturally you'll never be able to reach the level of bodybuilders like Jeff Seid without the use of steroids. (Not saying the supplements are anywhere near the effectiveness of steroids)

 

[804]

Well it sounds to me like you want definition. Which that style of routine should reveal. Based on your size and max lifts on the big three exercises, you should look like a beast.. those are some strong numbers... especially for your age. That is more than I currently squat and DL..

 

[danielcho]

Well it sounds to me like you want definition. Which that style of routine should reveal. Based on your size and max lifts on the big three exercises, you should look like a beast.. those are some strong numbers... especially for your age. That is more than I currently squat and DL..

Looks like I'm going to start GVT very soon...

 

[Dma378]

Enjoy!!

 

[vujade]

I cant believe no one has asked him what his diet looks like... 9 times out of 10 when people are making
no progress it has to do with their diet..!

If you're not losing weight and your doing all kinds of exercise, your eating too much and probably the wrong things.

If your not gaining, then your not eating enough and/or not eating the right macros...

If you can deadlift 500lbs and squat 400 pounds at 18, I could almost guess without uncertainty that you dont have low T.

My guess is that you have a High Metabolism and you are not eating enough calories and/or protein.

You need to keep a log of what your are eating for a few days to see how many calories you are eating

and then start adding about 500 calories a day over maintainence to start growing.

Make sure to eat 5 - 6 times per day and get at least 40 to 50 grams of lean protein per meal

 

[AaronJP1]

Diet plays a key role.
How long have you been on your current routine? You can try a change up and give it 2-3 months and see if that works for ya. What are you feeding on currently?

 

[danielcho]

I've bulked for the past 4 years.
I always ate from 2900-3400 calories a day.
I ate usually around 180 protein and 90 fat.
The rest being carbs.

I've been cutting on Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss for the past couple weeks.

 

[danielcho]

When I did bulk I just ate whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted.

I just made sure I hit my macros.

 

[Spaniard]

I've bulked for the past 4 years.
I always ate from 2900-3400 calories a day.
I ate usually around 180 protein and 90 fat.
The rest being carbs.

I've been cutting on Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss for the past couple weeks.

What types of foods are you using to hit macros?

 

[danielcho]

What types of foods are you using to hit macros?

I just hit my macros with whatever I wanted and whenever.

I also tried my best to always eat my vegetables along with a multi.

 

[danielcho]

If you haven't noticed....I'm very influenced by YouTube. (Powerlifting & IIFYM)

 

[frankz2]

The issue we all seem to be having is that at 18 you really don't need piles of supplements to make progress. As everyone else has said, a caloric surplus, high protein diet, and well rounded food choices will cover all your micronutrients and be enough for you.

The issue is that on top of actually tracking calories in macros (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you say you do), there is no need to go back and forth between all out dirty bulking and rapid fat loss programs. Find your maintenance, eat slightly above it covering all nutritional bases, lift heavy, and see what happens in a couple years.

As much as you want immediate results, you're 18. Bodybuilding and lifting are life-long journeys and its about enjoying the process just as much as the results.