Phosphophatidylcholine

  1. Phosphophatidylcholine


    got my phosphophatidylcholine today (30mL 100mg/mL) from TLR. Problem is it is not really liquid, it is like jello (not a solid). I can't find what to dilute it with, and what concetration i need to make it. Anyone use this before or have an idea. It's gonna be hell to get out of that vial i bet.
    Thanks


  2. Quote Originally Posted by TheGame46
    got my phosphophatidylcholine today (30mL 100mg/mL) from TLR. Problem is it is not really liquid, it is like jello (not a solid). I can't find what to dilute it with, and what concetration i need to make it. Anyone use this before or have an idea. It's gonna be hell to get out of that vial i bet.
    Thanks
    What are people using this for and how is it being administered?

  3. all you got is 3000 mgs of the stuff? that is like a 2-3 day supply. how much did you pay for it?

    it is supposed to be a mood enhancer and cortisol suppressant. it is just a form of choline.
    Last edited by hogiejoe; 03-18-2005 at 09:19 PM.
    •   
       


  4. Well, I'm not sure if he spelled it wrong or what, but I was thinking it was just lecithin, which swells in water to form a suspension.

  5. Lipostabil.... this is meant to be injected. And a little goes a long way. And I'd ask instynct if you can dilute it but I'm pretty sure you cant use water.

  6. are you trying to inject this stuff? now that i read your post over i am not sure you know what exactly it is that you have.

  7. i went to their website and i could not even find that. and some of the prices on the site are freaking ridiculous.

  8. Don't be stupid guys! I don't know what he's charging, but I can go to Walmart and buy liquid lecithin for 10$ per 32oz! The thick liquid is just as pure as the sticky solid. If the solid is white it's actually purer, but if the solid is yellow or brown, you may as well get some liquid and micron filter if you plan to inject. It's lipotropic so I assume you mean spot injections to mobilize local fat in specific areas or something?
    Last edited by DR.D; 03-19-2005 at 11:31 AM.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Don't be stupid guys! I don't know what he's charging, but I can go to Walmart and bye liquid lecithin for 10$ per 32oz! The thick liquid is just as pure as the sticky solid. If the solid is white it's actually purer, but if the solid is yellow or brown, you may as well get some liquid and micron filter if you plan to inject. It's lipotropic so I assume you mean spot injections to mobilize local fat in specific areas or something?
    There is a difference between lechtin and the phosphophatidylcholine used in lipodissolve. It has something to do with the number or chains and carbon rings i think, as well as they come from different plants. Only one type rom one plant works for this I beleive.

  10. Good links, but I'm having trouble finding the ingredients of Lipostabil, just that it 250mg/ml PC, but what the other 750mg are, who knows! How were you going to formulate this stuff?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Don't be stupid guys! I don't know what he's charging, but I can go to Walmart and buy liquid lecithin for 10$ per 32oz! The thick liquid is just as pure as the sticky solid. If the solid is white it's actually purer, but if the solid is yellow or brown, you may as well get some liquid and micron filter if you plan to inject. It's lipotropic so I assume you mean spot injections to mobilize local fat in specific areas or something?
    16 oz for $2.50 at my local grocery store (Wegman's)

  12. PC is the only active ingrediant, the rest is the solvent. and there is not always 1g/ml in any solution FYI

  13. Quote Originally Posted by TheGame46
    PC is the only active ingrediant, the rest is the solvent. and there is not always 1g/ml in any solution FYI
    Yes, you are correct. I was just trying to make a point. In fact, I'm sure ingredient #2 is DI H2O or isotonic saline, and since PC swells in water, I'm sure the specific gravity will not be 1.0, however, you'd have to be insane to discount the inacitives as unimportant and just shoot it in some water as an untreated, aqueous suspension. If you get the rest of the components (should be 5 or 6 I'd think) I'll help you formulate a sterile, effective mixture. You may wanna ask dego, I think he has some experience with this too.

  14. check out the pics he posted in his log; looks very, very, painful

  15. Quote Originally Posted by chasec
    check out the pics he posted in his log; looks very, very, painful
    Isn't this his log? I can't find them in the cycles or pics forum

  16. This is the log. He has 2 or 3 logs on this topic. Confusing.
    my phosphophatidylcholine log w/pics

  17. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Yes, you are correct. I was just trying to make a point. In fact, I'm sure ingredient #2 is DI H2O or isotonic saline, and since PC swells in water, I'm sure the specific gravity will not be 1.0, however, you'd have to be insane to discount the inacitives as unimportant and just shoot it in some water as an untreated, aqueous suspension. If you get the rest of the components (should be 5 or 6 I'd think) I'll help you formulate a sterile, effective mixture. You may wanna ask dego, I think he has some experience with this too.
    The solution you get from TLR is formula ready sterile and ready to use. the conc. is 100mg/ml. Pc would not be soluble in water i think it needs an organic solvent or ionic solutoin.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    This is the log. He has 2 or 3 logs on this topic. Confusing.
    my phosphophatidylcholine log w/pics
    this thread started as a question I had but more people responded to this one. I was keeping the original log on anabolex but they are just flamming me for even trying the product. People here seem more optamistic and at least repect the fact that I'm taking the time to log the results.

  19. I hear you bro. Maybe you should post a link to the other...duh, I just did, and leave a note for anyone curious to go to the other thread. Just a thought.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by TheGame46
    got my phosphophatidylcholine today (30mL 100mg/mL) from TLR. Problem is it is not really liquid, it is like jello (not a solid). I can't find what to dilute it with, and what concetration i need to make it. Anyone use this before or have an idea. It's gonna be hell to get out of that vial i bet.
    Thanks
    Like I said, PC swells in water to form a thick, aqueous suspension. Was it at all turbid? I saw your pics, I was not surprised as edema and bruising are common up to weeks after. They suggest compression to help. So how did you dilute this "jello" or did you use as is?

  21. i know this actually kills the adipose cells and not just reduce their size, but damn; i'll stick with clen/ECA

  22. Quote Originally Posted by chasec
    i know this actually kills the adipose cells and not just reduce their size, but damn; i'll stick with clen/ECA
    Yeah, I'd rather just lift my ass off and take drugs too! But I was interested at first because it forces the fat out by emulsifying it and making it water soluble. May still be an idea for stubborn fatty areas if I ever get that obsessed again. As for now, my 16% bf ass really don't care enough to shoot my abs 40x with 2mm points every two weeks 4x total. Give me the damn yo and let my skin crawl!
    Last edited by DR.D; 03-21-2005 at 07:09 AM.

  23. this was discussed here before many times:
    finaly study on Lipostabil

  24. Just curious Game, how many forums are you going to post this perplexing log under?

    And how many sites are you posting this on?

    I ask because I have seen it on multiple sites and on multiple AM forums.


  25. Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalD
    Just curious Game, how many forums are you going to post this perplexing log under?

    And how many sites are you posting this on?

    I ask because I have seen it on multiple sites and on multiple AM forums.

    Hey Chem, good to see you around here. He has got it mixed up pretty well on this one.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Hey Chem, good to see you around here.
    Same to you buddy. This is my new home.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalD
    Same to you buddy. This is my new home.
    To those that don't know, Chem D is an analytical chemist from Avant. Glad you made the switch! I tried to log on to Avant earlier today and they had my account all messed up. This is a great board, the guys are knowledgable and mature to one another (no ego driven flamers).

  28. well, welcome!

  29. surfactants+ phosphotydlecholin = cell lysis

    Many results of many studies indicate that nonionic surfactants interact not only with proteins but also with membrane phospholipids by modifying their structure and permeability. As phospholipids are chemically simple compounds, the principles of various surfactant-phospholipid interactions and the character of forces involved are fairly well known.


    Surfactants generally increase the permeability of phospholipid membranes and vesicles, causing leakage of compounds with low molecular mass. The loss of ions, amino acids, etc., may result in cell damage or cell death. It is generally accepted that the increased permeability is the result of membrane disruption. Supramolecular surfactants (polyethylene glycol + dicarboxylic acid esters) as well as Triton X-100 readily disrupt egg yolk phosphatidylcholine membranes (32). An increase in permeability has been observed in many model systems: Triton X-100 and some new synthetic surfactants caused leakage from palmitoyloleoyl phosphatidylcholine/cholesterol vesicles, which are large and unilamellar (33). The concentration and aggregation state of surfactants also exert a considerable effect on their membrane-damaging capacity: monomeric Triton X-100 causes leakage of dipalmitoyl phosphatidylcholine vesicles, whereas micellar solutions result in the catastrophic rupture of membrane

    well i look into transdermal delivery of lecithin, its seams that phosphtidylecholin can be delivered systematicly, and localy since its amphiphilic.



    Localized and systemic drug delivery. Liposomes as drug carriers. Liposomes
    have shown great potential as novel drug carriers for
    dermal and transdermal systems. Liposomes are microscopic
    vesicles composed of membrane-like lipid layers surrounding
    an aqueous compartment (23). Phospholipids most often are
    used in the preparation of liposomes. Because of the amphiphilic
    nature of phospholipids, when they are dispersed in aqueous
    solutions they arrange in bilayers, with the fatty-acid tails
    (nonpolar) located in the membrane’s interior and the polar
    heads pointing outward. One of the advantages of using liposomes
    as drug carriers is that both lipophilic as well as hydrophilic
    drugs can be incorporated within the lipid bilayers and
    aqueous compartment, respectively. They also serve as a reservoir
    for the prolonged release of drugs within various skin
    layers (23–28), thereby reducing the rapid elimination of drug
    into the blood or lymphatic circulation (29). This quality makes
    the liposome delivery system useful for treating various skin
    disorders. Because they are nongreasy and nontacky, liposomal
    preparations are cosmetically acceptable.
    Various mechanisms have been proposed for the delivery of
    drugs through the skin using liposomes as a drug carrier. In
    these systems, liposomes carry a drug in dissolved form to the
    skin surface, and their lipid bilayer ruptures as a result !!!!!!

    http://ptech.adv100.com/pharmtech/d...404/article.pdf

  30. chasec, Dr. D.

    Thanks for the welcome.

    We all have to do our parts to keep brotelligence in check.

    And this is a wonderful board, not to say that Avant isn't.


  31. Quote Originally Posted by mass_builder
    surfactants+ phosphotydlecholin = cell lysis

    Many results of many studies indicate that nonionic surfactants interact not only with proteins but also with membrane phospholipids by modifying their structure and permeability. As phospholipids are chemically simple compounds, the principles of various surfactant-phospholipid interactions and the character of forces involved are fairly well known.


    Surfactants generally increase the permeability of phospholipid membranes and vesicles, causing leakage of compounds with low molecular mass. The loss of ions, amino acids, etc., may result in cell damage or cell death. It is generally accepted that the increased permeability is the result of membrane disruption. Supramolecular surfactants (polyethylene glycol + dicarboxylic acid esters) as well as Triton X-100 readily disrupt egg yolk phosphatidylcholine membranes (32). An increase in permeability has been observed in many model systems: Triton X-100 and some new synthetic surfactants caused leakage from palmitoyloleoyl phosphatidylcholine/cholesterol vesicles, which are large and unilamellar (33). The concentration and aggregation state of surfactants also exert a considerable effect on their membrane-damaging capacity: monomeric Triton X-100 causes leakage of dipalmitoyl phosphatidylcholine vesicles, whereas micellar solutions result in the catastrophic rupture of membrane

    well i look into transdermal delivery of lecithin, its seams that phosphtidylecholin can be delivered systematicly, and localy since its amphiphilic.



    Localized and systemic drug delivery. Liposomes as drug carriers. Liposomes
    have shown great potential as novel drug carriers for
    dermal and transdermal systems. Liposomes are microscopic
    vesicles composed of membrane-like lipid layers surrounding
    an aqueous compartment (23). Phospholipids most often are
    used in the preparation of liposomes. Because of the amphiphilic
    nature of phospholipids, when they are dispersed in aqueous
    solutions they arrange in bilayers, with the fatty-acid tails
    (nonpolar) located in the membrane’s interior and the polar
    heads pointing outward. One of the advantages of using liposomes
    as drug carriers is that both lipophilic as well as hydrophilic
    drugs can be incorporated within the lipid bilayers and
    aqueous compartment, respectively. They also serve as a reservoir
    for the prolonged release of drugs within various skin
    layers (23–28), thereby reducing the rapid elimination of drug
    into the blood or lymphatic circulation (29). This quality makes
    the liposome delivery system useful for treating various skin
    disorders. Because they are nongreasy and nontacky, liposomal
    preparations are cosmetically acceptable.
    Various mechanisms have been proposed for the delivery of
    drugs through the skin using liposomes as a drug carrier. In
    these systems, liposomes carry a drug in dissolved form to the
    skin surface, and their lipid bilayer ruptures as a result !!!!!!

    http://ptech.adv100.com/pharmtech/d...404/article.pdf
    Some great info, now do you know the proprietary ingredients in Limpo?

  32. Bump, This conversation just kinda fell off, Did you delute it with any thing, how is it now? I heard you need about four treatments to
    scuplt certain areas.

  33. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Some great info, now do you know the proprietary ingredients in Limpo?
    WHat are they?

  34. If someone could PM me with info about PC from TLR I would appreciate it.

    Thanks

  35. I put in a hot water bath and shook it up. repeat as needed.

    It cleared it up for me.
  

  
 

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