- 03-12-2005, 06:41 AM
It's a few days that this topic has been on my mind.
I always aim to lean bulks. Now with something strong as SD, I fear to accumulate some fat.
Once again i'm going to open my purse and add more supplements to my arsenal
Here is what's on my mind so far.
1. 7-oxo-DHEA. I'm already using Ab-Solved. I got some results and I hope it can contribute to not make my waist grow too much.
2. 7-OH. I'm going to switch to this in a few days, after i finish the first bottle of ab-solved
3. ALCAR. Its supposed to be one of the best nutrient partitioner.*
4. Forskolin. I'm very intrigued to use this stuff. I'm going to start it as soon as i finish my first SD minicycle.
5. K-R-ALA. it should help to assimilate carbs towards muscles instead of fat deposits.
6. Other things. I'm open to suggestions.
* It would be nice to know exactly how ALCAR compares to l-carnitine and carnitine tartarate in regard to this property.
- 03-12-2005, 06:44 AM
Originally Posted by Syr
- 03-12-2005, 06:55 AM
Off the top of my head, both Ephedrine-Caffeine and Leptigen are nutrient repartitioners that are not on your list.
03-12-2005, 07:22 AM
LeptiGen MASS to be precise.Originally Posted by Saladin
Have you read my article on Basic Supplementation? It addresses this issue, among others.
03-12-2005, 11:39 AM
03-12-2005, 12:30 PM
Yes, that was the thing that made me look seriously into this kind of supplements.Originally Posted by Twin Peak
Thanks StrategOS, I've already read that number (and the new one too lol) and TP article.
Yes, I forgot Sesathin in my list.
I didnt mention Leptigen Mass, since i'm listing single substances, not mixes.
While i'm sure LM is effective I wonder about the dose of ALCAR and some other ingredients in it. Plus, I'm pretty sure creatine pyruvate does nothing to me.
03-12-2005, 12:32 PM
Hmm... caffeine does that? or just helps burning fat? Those are two different things.Originally Posted by Saladin
BTW, I'm almost immune to the stimulating effects of caffeine, i wonder if i would get the other benefits.
03-12-2005, 01:33 PM
Not just the caffeine, but the combination of ephedrine and caffeine.
03-12-2005, 06:38 PM
I'm pretty sure ephedrine itself is a nutrient partitioner.
03-12-2005, 11:23 PM
If you run a clean bulk, as most bulks should be anyways, I found that SD acted as a pretty good partitioner in and of itself. My gains were almost entirely lean and I put on a good 7-10 lbs. in 6 weeks. Moderate dosing of fish oil or flax oil with sesathin will help keep the lipid profiles while on the drol, as well as have a nutrient partitioning effect.Originally Posted by Syr
03-12-2005, 11:30 PM
Syr....how are you using your Forskolin? Oral or Dermal?
03-13-2005, 03:29 AM
nicotine is supposed to be a good nutrient partitioner
03-13-2005, 05:37 AM
i've been using Vanadyl Sulphate for a little over 2 weeks & am getting great results in the nutrient partioning dept.
also noticed a lot more fullness in the muscle, much bigger (and sustainable) pumps & increased vascularity.
most of what i've read about Vanadyl is not good but i'll be using it again in the future
also nicotine as Moyer above mentioned. i like to chew on some nicotine gum for a cuppla weeks which i found to be quite a good nutrient partitioner.
03-13-2005, 06:35 AM
Not yet, i'm starting it when i finish my first SD minicycle. Oral.Originally Posted by Odessa14
I'll go for a high dose (200mg splitted in 2 servings a day).
03-13-2005, 06:41 AM
"Vanadium sometimes inhibits, but at other times stimulates, cancer growth in animals. The effect in humans remains unknown"Originally Posted by Jag
No thanks for me
03-13-2005, 10:31 AM
a) vanadyl sulfate is a non toxic form of vanadium
b) if systemic 7-oxo's repartitoining effect in the non-stressed, lean is mediated by thyroid output increase its not a good idead long term.
c) Check out phenogen by avant.
d) I would like to see reference on nicotine's repartiotining. on the contrary, its vasoconstrictive effect won't do much for repartitoining.
e) anything that repartitions by activating AMPK, too much of it will make you weak, losing muscle, and over trained. just an FYI.
03-13-2005, 11:37 AM
It should act reducing cortisol even if its not too high for causes like stress.Originally Posted by judge-mental
BTW for long term you mean long term usage or after some years?
03-14-2005, 01:34 AM
Cortisol is a good thing in small doses. if youre lean and not stressed (and bulking - eating alot)youre levels are fine. do not reduce it by any means because its allready small. read the absolved writeup on why for the lean/unstressed, 7-oxo should only be targeting the gut
03-14-2005, 06:17 AM
I'm moderately stressed, but i have already some VAT i want to get rid of. I had not impressive results with 7oxo transdermal and now I'm going to try 7oh orally.Originally Posted by judge-mental
03-14-2005, 07:41 AM
ok, cool then
if yore feeling sore joints in the evening than youre cortisol is to low
crude but works
03-14-2005, 10:17 AM
Originally Posted by Syr
Can you support this? Most of what I have read indicates that ALA increase glut-4 proteins on both muscle and adipose tissue alike. I agree it is a usefull supplement, but I have yet to find any studies showing preferential selection of muscle tissue.
03-14-2005, 11:32 AM
Right. That is why Glucophase XR includes the additives, to make it more effective in this regard than K-R-ALA by itself. Performing strenuous exercise will prepare muscle to receive more nutrients from the blood, rather than those same nutrients ending up stored in fat. The K-R-ALA in Glucophase XR facilitates glucose shuttling, while the additives cause the shuttling to be preferentially (albeit not perfectly) directed to muscle instead of fat.Originally Posted by bow
Best: exercise + Glucophase XR + protein/carbs/etc.
Second best: exercise + K-R-ALA + protein/carbs/etc.
Third best: Glucophase XR + protein/carbs/etc.
Exercise is great for nutrient paritioning, but you can't exercise all the time. Glucophase XR is very good for nutrient partitioning, either to improve upon the already great effects of exercise, or to approximate them to some degree when you are not exercising. Nobody exercises before every meal.
03-14-2005, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by Strateg0s
Got it. I will defiantly do some research into the additives and see if I can find any evidence to support your conclusion.
I've hypothesized for years that when you are in a glycogen depleted state after anaerobic exercise, ALA will be beneficial. Very much like water flowing through a pipe, glycogen will take the patch of least resistance. If muscle cells are in a state of "need" or "repair", glucose will be preferentially shuttled to muscle cells. Now with the addition of the extra glut-4 proteins (from the addition of the ALA), we can get even more glycogen into the muscle cells, keeping it from being utilized by adipose cells. However, without this additional driving force, I don’t see ALA supplementation in itself as being beneficial. This is why so few studies have shown ALA to be beneficial to non-insulin resistant individuals.
If glucophase can perform this preferential shuttling without the need for an anaerobic environment, then Sledge has truly created an amazing supplement.
03-15-2005, 09:23 PM
Vanadyl Sulfate is a non-toxic and good glycogen loader, caffeine is mildly estrogenic but mobilizes fat in the liver and spikes insulin, and pyruvate does work in higher doses (calcium form for glucose disposal or creatine form pre w/o at about a 6-10g dose), most non-aromatizable androgens especially stacked with thyroxine, yohimbe by day and clonidine by night on a semi-keto diet is super, Lean extreme, Ses(from what I here, Twin and Par are still too cheap to send me a tester ), DHEA and cort reducing derivatives, GH/IGF, a-sympathomimetics(amphetamines) and betas too like ephedrine or clen, MTC and carnitine, etc..
03-15-2005, 09:38 PM
I read your article titled "Looking Back: An untimely Guide to Legal Steroids" and I enjoyed it. I am a rookie and your article explained many things that I wondered.Originally Posted by Strateg0s
Now write some more
03-16-2005, 02:06 AM
Back in my OCD days when I was worried about fat gain, I would do 25 bodyweight squats before a meal for partitioning.
03-16-2005, 02:37 AM
When I said nobody exercises before every meal, I knew there would be a few exceptions. Pro is hardcore - even if he has stopped doing squats before every meal.Originally Posted by theprolangtum
03-16-2005, 02:37 AM
Glad you found it helpful. I'll see what I can do about the restOriginally Posted by MorganKane
Dr.D should write something for Mind&Muscle too - then I suspect he would get some Sesathin, for sure...
03-16-2005, 06:29 AM
Yeah! i second thatOriginally Posted by Strateg0s
03-16-2005, 08:11 AM
....and you didn't know that these body squats were performed in a thong on stage..... Not everyone has that sort of talentOriginally Posted by Strateg0s
03-16-2005, 12:07 PM
YEah, being lean was a must.....but I took it to an extreme.
03-16-2005, 06:28 PM
Prolangtum, did doing those 25 rep bodyweight squats really seem to help? I may give that a try, sounds interesting. BTW, what have you been up to lately, havent seen you around in a long time, good to see you again.
03-16-2005, 06:50 PM
To be honest, Im not sure. I was always lingering around 8-9%, which is hard to maintain year round. I was eating right at maintenance cals, I think it would be better to try when your bulking with a surplus of cals. Even then Im sure the difference will be minimal.
05-21-2005, 07:10 PM
resurrecting a bit old thread :)
What is MTC?Originally Posted by DR.D
About carnitine, do u think that ALCAR is the best form of carnitine for this goal?
05-21-2005, 08:46 PM
Alcar is marketed for it's mental effects, but will work fine for fat loss. Carnitine free base or salts will work on fat and are usually cheaper than Alcar, but doesn't have the brain benefits. So choose the form that suits your goals. MTC is medium chain triglycerides. Caprylic is one of my fav's. MTC's are not stored as fat and offer a good carb alternative for body fuel. They also prime fat burning processes that advance it's affect.Originally Posted by Syr
05-22-2005, 08:29 AM
05-22-2005, 05:16 PM
Leave me alone ! Momma said I was special but yeah, that's what I meant if my brain was working "properly" whatever that meansOriginally Posted by SJA
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