Japanese study intake of DHA inverse correlation w/Test

[factsmachine]

I found this japanese study while learning more about fish oil. Study states that fat intake is inversely correlated with total testosterone. It also says intake of DHA (omega 3 in fish oil) is inversely correlated with total testosterone.
Nagata C, Takatsuka N, Kawakami N, Shimizu H. (2000) Relationships between types of fat consumed and serum estrogen and androgen concentrations in Japanese men.

If I'm interpreting this correctly, this is the opposite of what I've heard before. Isnt total fat intake correlated with total and free test? I've seen studies, particularly stating that monounsaturated fat is correlated with testosterone. If you google fat intake and testosterone you should find something quick. Also, the Testosterone diet advocates up to 40% fat in diet.
Can somebody chime in and discuss this with me?

 

[Nyrin]

Relationships between types of fat consumed and ... [Nutr Cancer. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI

Studies based on self-reported intake may as well be social science papers, as far as I'm concerned, but even this abstract effectively dismisses any worry here:

Intakes of eicosapentanoic and docosahexaenoic acids, n-3 fatty acids from fish, were significantly inversely correlated with total testosterone (r = -0.25, p = 0.04 and r = -0.32, p = 0.01, respectively). [highlight]Serum estrone, estradiol, and free testosterone were not significantly correlated with any type of fat studied.[/highlight]

Even if EPA/DHA are exerting an effect on total testosterone levels, the highlighted would indicate that compensation is occurring with a higher level of bioavailability being effected. For all we know, EPA/DHA may be exerting an effect on the liver that's affecting SHBG, or any number of other things.

 

[factsmachine]

That does make sense, actually. Because ive seen other studies that point the opposite direction. Im going to dig deeper here and see what kind of effect fat has on testosterone.


Also SHBG is said to be lowered by omega 3, according to another study I read. Is it possible that since there is more free testosterone, more binding to the AR occurs which causes a decrease in Test production due to negative feedback? Just a hypothesis. I could try to find it, but im on mobile right now. Also cant post links yet so itll take a while longer.

Edit: On the same page I found the other studies it shows a study that says fish oil increases LH. If you want to see all of these im looking at, google "reduce SHBG" and its 10 ways to reduce SHBG on anabolicmen. Other things it says are boron, high carb diets, magnesium, and zinc.

 

[Nyrin]

That does make sense, actually. Because ive seen other studies that point the opposite direction. Im going to dig deeper here and see what kind of effect fat has on testosterone.

Also SHBG is said to be lowered by omega 3, according to another study I read. Is it possible that since there is more free testosterone, more binding to the AR occurs which causes a decrease in Test production due to negative feedback? Just a hypothesis. I could try to find it, but im on mobile right now. Also cant post links yet so itll take a while longer.

Edit: On the same page I found the other studies it shows a study that says fish oil increases LH. If you want to see all of these im looking at, google "reduce SHBG" and its 10 ways to reduce SHBG on anabolicmen. Other things it says are boron, high carb diets, magnesium, and zinc.

That sounds plausible to me. If n-3 lowers SHBG, it may correlate with higher bioavailability and lower total testosterone (as excretion may be faster). Increasing LH would balance that to some extent, though.

I don't think we should worry about stopping our fish, though--unless you're doing an ArA cycle, of course

 

[factsmachine]

So basically shbg preserves testosterone? I heard it acts as a reserve for testosterone, and that it has a long half life. So therefore if it works as you explained, (also is difficult to estimate how linear the changing numbers are) then testosterone is more availible and used faster. (Also the study i pointed to states that free testosterone wasnt changing with fish intake) so maybe the LH increases because there's less testosterone. If all of this is linear, that would suggest almost no changein the physiology. Either way, the difference is negigable and still makes fish oil a worthy supplement for othee benefits.

Also have you done a cycle of ArA, and what kind of results and effects did you experience?
Im 18, so im looking for something effective rather than steroids and prohormones until im older.

 

[Nyrin]

So basically shbg preserves testosterone? I heard it acts as a reserve for testosterone, and that it has a long half life. So therefore if it works as you explained, (also is difficult to estimate how linear the changing numbers are) then testosterone is more availible and used faster. (Also the study i pointed to states that free testosterone wasnt changing with fish intake) so maybe the LH increases because there's less testosterone. If all of this is linear, that would suggest almost no changein the physiology. Either way, the difference is negigable and still makes fish oil a worthy supplement for othee benefits.

Also have you done a cycle of ArA, and what kind of results and effects did you experience?
Im 18, so im looking for something effective rather than steroids and prohormones until im older.

SHBG does bind testosterone to an extent, but my understanding is that the whole bioavailability system is a lot more complicated than SHBG quantities alone, as there's nowhere near enough SHBG to really act as a systemic reservoir for testosterone -- it's more like a rainfall measurement device than a water tower.

I can't pretend to know enough about the whole system to say what's really going on, but higher SHBG usually correlates with longer-persisting but less bioavailable testosterone (which, in the case of exogenous administration, may make higher-dose and less-frequent infusions appropriate) while lower SHBG correlates with quickly-excreted but more bioavailable testosterone (conversely, so-called "hyper excreters" may need to dose very frequently with small doses to keep remotely steady levels).

In the great and complex system of feedback mechanisms, it's only one cog in the machine. I feel like you'd probably need a Ph.D in the area or a decade of hobbyist dabbling to really start to make sense of it all--assuming our endocrinologist friends really have a full grasp of it to begin with

I've actually taking arachidonic acid now and having some pretty nice effects from it. X-Factor/X-Gels and/or something like ABE all have primarily non-hormonal anabolic effects which, while of course nowhere near hardcore steroid use, do seem to make a pretty noticeable difference.

I applaud you decision to not mess with your hormones at 18; too many people jump in way too early for far too little gain and far too much risk.