What else is there? Minimal Suppressives

jarod86

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Hi Fellas,
I am looking to gain more muscle (just like you probably are).

I have successfully done so with the following products: ABE, Ostarine, Ep1c (follidrone).

Any/All of the above a very minimal with regard to natural test suppression, and all have minimal negative sides. I also have some XFA planned.

Do we know of anything else that will help do the job of gaining 3-4kg+ (5-10 pounds plus), in conjunction to a strict calorie surplus diet, training, and rest - without a lot of suppression?

Have also ran epistane though found it suppressive.
 

Jstrong20

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Formeron(formestane) Always get noticable body comp changes and strength gains.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Hi Fellas,
I am looking to gain more muscle (just like you probably are).

I have successfully done so with the following products: ABE, Ostarine, Ep1c (follidrone).

Any/All of the above a very minimal with regard to natural test suppression, and all have minimal negative sides. I also have some XFA planned.

Do we know of anything else that will help do the job of gaining 3-4kg+ (5-10 pounds plus), in conjunction to a strict calorie surplus diet, training, and rest - without a lot of suppression?

Have also ran epistane though found it suppressive.
If you found those first few worked, why not continue cycling them? strong logic ITT
 
Spaniard

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Any ArA product would be my recommendation. Although, just because you've used them once doesn't mean you can't get results with them again.

None of those supplements you mentioned are suppressive by the way, except the Ostarine (minimal). What did you run it at (mg)?
 

jarod86

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If you found those first few worked, why not continue cycling them? strong logic ITT
Agree with this.



Just concerned that my system will 'get used' to taking the same compounds and results diminishing.
 

jarod86

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Any ArA product would be my recommendation. Although, just because you've used them once doesn't mean you can't get results with them again. None of those supplements you mentioned are suppressive by the way, except the Ostarine. What did you run it at (mg)?

Thank you.

Ostarine was pretty much 25mg upon waking for 7 weeks. I have 4 days to go.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Agree with this.

Have at least 2-3 more cycles of each in my stash.

Just concerned that my system will 'get used' to taking the same compounds and results diminishing.
To put things into perspective, anything that will result in the weight gain you want from a cycle will be suppressive and require PCT, there are always trade offs in life.
 
blacklac

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1-DHEA
 

jarod86

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This has been a pretty productive thread so far. Thanks to all. I have two new products to investigate formeron and 1-dhea to look into incorporating into my minimally suppressive cycles.
 
Grayson

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Cheers. Will investigate.
Ironmaglabs = 1 step conversion
LG sciences = 2 step conversion.

The more you know.

Make sure to run these with a "test base." So something like 4-dhea or epi-andro or else you'll experience extreme lethargy.
 

jarod86

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Ironmaglabs = 1 step conversion LG sciences = 2 step conversion. The more you know. Make sure to run these with a "test base." So something like 4-dhea or epi-andro or else you'll experience extreme lethargy.
Appreciate this one. Will do my homework.
 
Afi140

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Royd hooked me up with the FRL kit. 1-dhea, 4-dhea, epi-andro, and reboot. I had 5-alpha I'm gonna throw in as well. I'll post my log link ITT once I get it up and going. There's plenty of logs on the compounds though and they aren't nearly suppressive as some.
 
blacklac

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Apparently I need to add Royd to my nude selfie Christmas card list...
 
nattydisaster

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If you have run those with success, I would just run them again. Consistency is key. You would be disappointed as well if you tried something new that did not work as well, when you know you've taken products that do work for you.

The only thing I could see to add in would be CistaMax at 4 caps per day. And a 10-20% calorie surplus
 
Afi140

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jarod86

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If you have run those with success, I would just run them again. Consistency is key. You would be disappointed as well if you tried something new that did not work as well, when you know you've taken products that do work for you. The only thing I could see to add in would be CistaMax at 4 caps per day. And a 10-20% calorie surplus
Many thanks will investigate CistaMax
 

kissdadookie

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Agree.

Minimally. Nothing some tropinol XP erase pro and daa won't fix quickly.
LOL.

There's no minimally. The amount of ostarine you used and the length you used it for, you are going to be pretty damn suppressed. It's an exogenous androgen, take enough of it (which you did) for a good long period of time (which again, you did), your body is going to be very suppressed from it.
 
Contaygious

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Hey how much derma str3ngth did you run a day to find it ineffective? What dosage?

Also, what did your gains look like?

People like pa here so maybe look into cutler king,
 

jarod86

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Hey how much derma str3ngth did you run a day to find it ineffective? What dosage? Also, what did your gains look like? People like pa here so maybe look into cutler king,
Hey mate
Ran it for over a month. As per label. Ended up double dosing. Still nothing from that one :(

Everyone's different though!
 

jarod86

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LOL. There's no minimally. The amount of ostarine you used and the length you used it for, you are going to be pretty damn suppressed. It's an exogenous androgen, take enough of it (which you did) for a good long period of time (which again, you did), your body is going to be very suppressed from it.
Fuk out of my thread troll.
 
NoAddedHmones

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um Osta is not an androgen buddy and no he is not going to be very suppressed from it.
 
ericool007

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Formeron
11-oxo
Natadrol

Obviously things like (Follidrone-Ep1c, ARA, Anabeta, or PA) arent going to be suppressive at all but still good choices.
 

jarod86

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Formeron 11-oxo Natadrol Obviously things like (Follidrone-Ep1c, ARA, Anabeta, or PA) arent going to be suppressive at all but still good choices.
Many thanks 007,

Will look into 11-oxo & Natadrol.
 
hvactech

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Natadrol is a great choice, im currently hosting a promo for it... post up an app for a chance to win. For size gains you may be disappointed with 11x
 

kissdadookie

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um Osta is not an androgen buddy and no he is not going to be very suppressed from it.
It acts as an androgen in the body. It is selective though so it has more of an affinity to muscle and bone, but it's still an exogenous androgen in the body. It's been shown over and over and over again that 20-25 mg's ED of ostarine will suppress. I don't know where you got your idea from that ostarine isn't treated as an androgen in the body.

This is what Patrick Arnold stated on a thread somewhere on here asking about ostarine:

Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
thats not a pct. thats an extension of your cycle. these are androgens

Fuk out of my thread troll.
LOL. I'm trying to help you out here and you call me a troll. LOL.
 
McCrew530

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Hey brother its not suppressive but I put on a solid ,7 lbs running ara and anabeta elite. Pumps were great I was eating like a horse & minimal fat gain strength went up to. I ran it for 50 days and highly recommend it to anyone who doesn't want to go the suppressive rout
 
haiz69

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Ostarine may not have been suppressive for you, but it certainly CAN be. A decent number of people have done bloodwork that showed suppression to be a possible side-effect.
 

kissdadookie

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Ostarine may not have been suppressive for you, but it certainly CAN be. A decent number of people have done bloodwork that showed suppression to be a possible side-effect.
I highly doubt that the OP actually ran bloods for his cycles so most likely he's going off of peripheral feelings.

For goodness sakes, his OP states that he ran epistane and found it suppressive. Uhm, duh? Taking a strong oral steroid and expecting it to not be suppressive?
 
TKC432

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FRL Alpha Mass and Finaflex's products are highly regarded.
If you are looking for a minimally or non-suppressive supp I would second the above post and recommend FINAFLEX. The new MASS 550 would fit your goals. Stack that with PURE TEST and you will see results. kernsbak84 alvin1 were just selected to log this same stack for FINAFLEX Check their logs out once they are up and running I'm sure they will be worth it ;)
 
NoAddedHmones

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It acts as an androgen in the body. It is selective though so it has more of an affinity to muscle and bone, but it's still an exogenous androgen in the body. It's been shown over and over and over again that 20-25 mg's ED of ostarine will suppress. I don't know where you got your idea from that ostarine isn't treated as an androgen in the body. This is what Patrick Arnold stated on a thread somewhere on here asking about ostarine: Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post thats not a pct. thats an extension of your cycle. these are androgens LOL. I'm trying to help you out here and you call me a troll. LOL.
You are correct that it binds to the androgen receptor but it is still not an androgen.
 

kissdadookie

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You are correct that it binds to the androgen receptor but it is still not an androgen.
Go look up and read what Patrick Arnold has posted on this subject.

SARMs are essentially steroids without the word "steroid" in them but that's essentially what they are. Are you basically trying to say that steroids are not exogenous androgens? Not only does ostarine bind to AR, it's muscle building properties comes from it being androgenic. If a compounds main effects are androgenic (fits into the AR and acts like an androgen), how does that not make it an androgen as far as your body is concerned? It's recognized as such.

As for suppression, even at 3 mg's a day, it lowered subjects free test by 23% and total test by 43% (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22031847). Granted that was shown on older men and after 86 days, but that's at 3 mgs (essentially highest human dose studied), the purposes athletes/bb'ers/etc. are using the stuff for, they are using doses MANY TIMES more than the highest studied dose of 3 mgs per day.

So, ostarine, it goes into the AR, it has high androgenic activity from which it imparts its main effects, and it's going to be suppressive, yet you don't consider it to be an exogenous androgen? Might not be technically labeled as a steroid or androgen but for all intents and purposes, it's basically a steroid/exogenous androgen.
 
Synapsin

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If you have run those with success, I would just run them again. Consistency is key. You would be disappointed as well if you tried something new that did not work as well, when you know you've taken products that do work for you.

The only thing I could see to add in would be CistaMax at 4 caps per day. And a 10-20% calorie surplus
This. Just make sure you're taking the recommended amount of time off, and you'll be golden.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Go look up and read what Patrick Arnold has posted on this subject. SARMs are essentially steroids without the word "steroid" in them but that's essentially what they are. Are you basically trying to say that steroids are not exogenous androgens? Not only does ostarine bind to AR, it's muscle building properties comes from it being androgenic. If a compounds main effects are androgenic (fits into the AR and acts like an androgen), how does that not make it an androgen as far as your body is concerned? It's recognized as such. As for suppression, even at 3 mg's a day, it lowered subjects free test by 23% and total test by 43% (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22031847). Granted that was shown on older men and after 86 days, but that's at 3 mgs (essentially highest human dose studied), the purposes athletes/bb'ers/etc. are using the stuff for, they are using doses MANY TIMES more than the highest studied dose of 3 mgs per day. So, ostarine, it goes into the AR, it has high androgenic activity from which it imparts its main effects, and it's going to be suppressive, yet you don't consider it to be an exogenous androgen? Might not be technically labeled as a steroid or androgen but for all intents and purposes, it's basically a steroid/exogenous androgen.
Lmao, man you don't need to school me on sarms, i understand how it works. They are not androgens, rather ligands than bind to the AR. You can copy and paste as much material on ostas MOA's as you like but im still failing to see where any of that stuff you have written says its an androgen.
 
Royd The Noyd

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Ironmaglabs = 1 step conversion
LG sciences = 2 step conversion.

The more you know.

Make sure to run these with a "test base." So something like 4-dhea or epi-andro or else you'll experience extreme lethargy.
IML is not selling any 1 step prohormone to 1-Test if that's what you are trying to say. That would be illegal.

Apparently I need to add Royd to my nude selfie Christmas card list...
It's a long list now, so you even have to be a stand out.

[

Lmao, man you don't need to school me on sarms, i understand how it works. They are not androgens, rather ligands than bind to the AR. You can copy and paste as much material on ostas MOA's as you like but im still failing to see where any of that stuff you have written says its an androgen.
It doesn't matter if it is an androgen or not. All scientific evidence suggests it is suppressive.
 
NoAddedHmones

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IML is not selling any 1 step prohormone to 1-Test if that's what you are trying to say. That would be illegal. It's a long list now, so you even have to be a stand out. [ It doesn't matter if it is an androgen or not. All scientific evidence suggests it is suppressive.
You are absolutely correct and i never said it wasn't was just busting that other guys balls.
 
nattydisaster

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I think people use the term minimally suppressive a little too lightly. You have to think of suppression more like an off and on switch. It's either off or its on. You can take 5 prohormones and then scale back to 1 prohormone...you are still suppressed. And you aren't going to have an easier PCT because you scaled down to 1.

The other thing to consider with suppression is the half life of the compound. The reason some things are considered "super supressive" is because their half lives are extremely long, and even mg amounts lingering in the blood will leave you suppressed.
 
Royd The Noyd

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I think people use the term minimally suppressive a little too lightly. You have to think of suppression more like an off and on switch. It's either off or its on. You can take 5 prohormones and then scale back to 1 prohormone...you are still suppressed. And you aren't going to have an easier PCT because you scaled down to 1.

The other thing to consider with suppression is the half life of the compound. The reason some things are considered "super supressive" is because their half lives are extremely long, and even mg amounts lingering in the blood will leave you suppressed.
Nandrolone all day everyday.
 
Grayson

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IML is not selling any 1 step prohormone to 1-Test if that's what you are trying to say. That would be illegal.
Please correct me then. I thought IML was the only one with true oral 1-dhea...
 
Blergs

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Hi Fellas,
I am looking to gain more muscle (just like you probably are).

I have successfully done so with the following products: ABE, Ostarine, Ep1c (follidrone).

Any/All of the above a very minimal with regard to natural test suppression, and all have minimal negative sides. I also have some XFA planned.

Do we know of anything else that will help do the job of gaining 3-4kg+ (5-10 pounds plus), in conjunction to a strict calorie surplus diet, training, and rest - without a lot of suppression?

Have also ran epistane though found it suppressive.
creatine 3-5g ed and taurine 2g ed is a nice help and safe. IMO
 
Royd The Noyd

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Please correct me then. I thought IML was the only one with true oral 1-dhea...
There are only 2 forms of 1-DHEA in existence (itself and the enanthate version) which are both 2 step prohormones.

1 step prohormones (1-androstenediol and 1-androstenedione) are both banned - in the United States.

IML has been selling 2 step 1-DHEA for a long time.


Having said all that I wouldn't say 1-DHEA is mildly suppressive. That's just a perception that's never been validated in any controlled setting.
 
Grayson

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There are only 2 forms of 1-DHEA in existence (itself and the enanthate version) which are both 2 step prohormones.

1 step prohormones (1-androstenediol and 1-androstenedione) are both banned - in the United States.

IML has been selling 2 step 1-DHEA for a long time.


Having said all that I wouldn't say 1-DHEA is mildly suppressive. That's just a perception that's never been validated in any controlled setting.
It's far from it...

http://tunedsports.com/designer-steroids/1-dhea-powerful-according-to-researchers/
 

kissdadookie

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The way I worded things, it boiled down to: treat it as an androgen.

When you start insisting something isn't an androgen, etc. that has a tendency of leading folks to think, for example, that the stuff isn't suppressive.

Ostarine, it's essentially am androgen as far as your body can tell. Your body doesn't give a damn about textbook definitions.
 
NoAddedHmones

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The way I worded things, it boiled down to: treat it as an androgen. When you start insisting something isn't an androgen, etc. that has a tendency of leading folks to think, for example, that the stuff isn't suppressive. Ostarine, it's essentially am androgen as far as your body can tell. Your body doesn't give a damn about textbook definitions.
So is tamoxifen citrate an androgen?
 

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