Feel low, no drive, depressed

Toff

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I was taking formestane and some left over dermacrine, just to use it up and give a natural test boost Lowering the estrogen a bit in the hope it would increase testosterone.

I upped the dosage, as formestane reps stated that it converts to a mild PH in high doses but without the drawbacks, however it killed libido really bad, so i scaled it back to just a low dose and then stopped both completely.

Libido was on the floor so bought some MACA, ginseng, etc. and it seemed to help a bit (the desire but not the ‘boing!’, upgrading to AI perform last week which has MACA plus tribulus, longjack and H.Goat weed.

After using it for about 5 days, i still feel rubbish.. got anxiety, cant sleep properly, tired (i fall asleep as soon as i get in from work), feel depressed and lethergic, cant concentrate and focus, procrastination is in full force. I just want to quit work and go to bed

Ive bought some DAA and 5-htp in the hope I get sleep, cheers me up and maybe gets me back on track, ill stop the AI perform in case something in it isn’t making me feel good.

Am i too low on the Estrogen, even still after a few weeks? Will DAA help?
 
kevinhy

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I was taking formestane and some left over dermacrine, just to use it up and give a natural test boost Lowering the estrogen a bit in the hope it would increase testosterone.

I upped the dosage, as formestane reps stated that it converts to a mild PH in high doses but without the drawbacks, however it killed libido really bad, so i scaled it back to just a low dose and then stopped both completely.

Libido was on the floor so bought some MACA, ginseng, etc. and it seemed to help a bit (the desire but not the ‘boing!’, upgrading to AI perform last week which has MACA plus tribulus, longjack and H.Goat weed.

After using it for about 5 days, i still feel rubbish.. got anxiety, cant sleep properly, tired (i fall asleep as soon as i get in from work), feel depressed and lethergic, cant concentrate and focus, procrastination is in full force. I just want to quit work and go to bed

Ive bought some DAA and 5-htp in the hope I get sleep, cheers me up and maybe gets me back on track, ill stop the AI perform in case something in it isn’t making me feel good.

Am i too low on the Estrogen, even still after a few weeks? Will DAA help?
I would say its very possible your estrogen is on the lower side, but its hard to say without bloodwork. I would recommend getting off all hormonal products for a bit and your body will adjust back to homeostasis rapidly.
 
veaderko

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Without blood work who knows.

If you want more help with libido and "boing" as you put it, look into Testabolan. I know of a few reps who have taken it and brough that back to life for them. I've used Intimidate SRT during a PCT, and that helped me. Woke up and ready to take on the GF.

Good Luck!
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Without blood work who knows.

If you want more help with libido and "boing" as you put it, look into Testabolan. I know of a few reps who have taken it and brough that back to life for them. I've used Intimidate SRT during a PCT, and that helped me. Woke up and ready to take on the GF.

Good Luck!
just wanted to add to this.. I am a firm believer in the testabolan product. its not an over night solution to your issues. I do recommend blood work to find out if there isn't an underlying cause. if everything is in check you can be sure that use of testabolan for a few months will have you feeling like a champ, and desire/libido will go through the roof.
 
nicksox15

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just wanted to add to this.. I am a firm believer in the testabolan product. its not an over night solution to your issues. I do recommend blood work to find out if there isn't an underlying cause. if everything is in check you can be sure that use of testabolan for a few months will have you feeling like a champ, and desire/libido will go through the roof.
Do you guys read these things? He mentions libido once, then lists much more serious problems such as depression and anxiety etc. likely caused by mis use or overuse of t boosters, yet you still have to pimp your stuff. Not every post you make has to mention your products, sheesh. Anyways, end of rant. OP get blood work done to see what's going on. Have you had any other life changes recently that might have you feeling down?
 
kevinhy

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Do you guys read these things? He mentions libido once, then lists much more serious problems such as depression and anxiety etc. likely caused by mis use or overuse of t boosters, yet you still have to pimp your stuff. Not every post you make has to mention your products, sheesh. Anyways, end of rant. OP get blood work done to see what's going on. Have you had any other life changes recently that might have you feeling down?

I think its obvious how much reading goes into the threads by some of the reps here.
 

kisaj

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Do you guys read these things? He mentions libido once, then lists much more serious problems such as depression and anxiety etc. likely caused by mis use or overuse of t boosters, yet you still have to pimp your stuff. Not every post you make has to mention your products, sheesh. Anyways, end of rant. OP get blood work done to see what's going on. Have you had any other life changes recently that might have you feeling down?
^^^This. He needs to stop everything and let his body start to baseline itself again. Who knows what has been done with all the supplements he has been taking. Is low estrogen likely part of the issue? Maybe. Time away from trying to chase things and continuing to add variables is only going to compound everything. If things don't get better, then blood work may assist.
 
Auslifter

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get off all of those supps you listed lol. DAA would have boosted prolactin make made your case worse, along with anxiety (i get anxiety issues if i ever use DAA, makes me feel odd.) don't run those AI's either there more geared towards those who are using PH's and will only make you feel like chit. also horny goat weed is an estrogen booster lel

here's a list of supplements what id run in your case. or consider

Erase Pro New version (not the old one)
Dopadex + ALCAR or LCLT
Viron or any Tongat Ali product
Forskolin 95 or Reform or ABE
Ashwaganda + Agmatine


also cistamax and amentomax, both have good mood boosting attributes. stack any of these IMO, plenty more i could list.
 

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The last thing needed right now is DAA and since it is not known if this is related to seratonin, the 5-HTP should also not be taken.

The products you listed are fine, but he should not be taking anything right now. He was playing with hormones and playing doctor on himself is only going to make it worse.
 
Auslifter

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The last thing needed right now is DAA and since it is not known if this is related to seratonin, the 5-HTP should also not be taken.

The products you listed are fine, but he should not be taking anything right now. He was playing with hormones and playing doctor on himself is only going to make it worse.

Good point. op i would give it 4-8 weeks of nothing. eat allot of whole foods, try get more micros. 5iu Vitiman D3, 2-6g Fish Oils. use the basics then adjust as needed, looking into some of the supps i posted above. natty "hormone boosters" are really not magic, and won't be enough for you to notice huge changes if any at all unless your running them 24/7, and that won't be cost effective in the end.
 

Toff

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Erase Pro New version (not the old one)
Dopadex + ALCAR or LCLT
Viron or any Tongat Ali product
Forskolin 95 or Reform or ABE
Ashwaganda + Agmatine


.
Erase>? why would I take more AI?

Tongkat ali is in the AI restore..

Low estrogen, googling seems to show the symptoms I have, how could I raise estrogen, a little? I thougt DAA raised test yes but also raised estrogen a little, especially near day 12, and thus is used in PCT?

I would have though DAA, boosts both test and estrogen, would be good to get them both up if ones out of wack?
 

Toff

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P.s

Im on high epa dha fish oils, running myfitnesspal app to track my diet (which is showing a 30/30/30 split of carbs, fats, protein), and strength training 3 x a week, using nothing but creatine and musclepharm preworkout.

joints feel sore, but as I say been off the AI over 2 weeks...as this is a true AI, its going to take longer to recover from tanked estrogen (than say erase)
 
R1balla

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I would discontinue the supplements for now. Not everyone realizes that estrogen has a strong role in libido. Plus low T and E can lead to other side effects. My suggestion is getting off, keep your body hydrated and give it some time. If you do not see improvement, I would def get bloodwork.
 
scoooter

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Erase>? why would I take more AI?

Tongkat ali is in the AI restore..

Low estrogen, googling seems to show the symptoms I have, how could I raise estrogen, a little? I thougt DAA raised test yes but also raised estrogen a little, especially near day 12, and thus is used in PCT?

I would have though DAA, boosts both test and estrogen, would be good to get them both up if ones out of wack?
The concern with daa is prolactin and possibly anxiety increase.
I've read another sign of low E is sore joints, however, you have alot of fish oil to deal with that so it may not be revealing at this time.

The hearbs you listed will help with desire/drive but the ginseng can cause anxiety. The "boing" thing you said has alot to do with the depression / mental aspect.

Sleep can be aided by some zma, or melatonin but should try relaxation type stuff, turn off tv, cell phone, pc, get unplugged for a short time prebed and stay clear of caffiene or preworkouts for awhile.

Also, as many have said - if it's really in your head driving you crazy then go get some cheap bloodwork and find out where your levels are at, should also help calm you to know.

best of luck
 

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I had the same, i mean same symptoms but i never taken formestane yet (i am doing dermacrine now though). I dont think you suffer from low estrogen, your symptoms try to tell you that your adrenal glands are fatigued. Read about it, i had my blood test done and estrogen was fine, the problem is cortisol, i dont think you have addison's disease though, it is something between. Use something to restore your adrenals and dont take any stims for a month and you will see the difference (that is what i did and it helped). I took two bottles of Southland Performance Revamp but it is the same formula as CTD Labs Adrenal Reset or you can try the new thing Adrenosurge by BPS (i bought one and will do it in few months).
 
R1balla

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I had the same, i mean same symptoms but i never taken formestane yet (i am doing dermacrine now though). I dont think you suffer from low estrogen, your symptoms try to tell you that your adrenal glands are fatigued. Read about it, i had my blood test done and estrogen was fine, the problem is cortisol, i dont think you have addison's disease though, it is something between. Use something to restore your adrenals and dont take any stims for a month and you will see the difference (that is what i did and it helped). I took two bottles of Southland Performance Revamp but it is the same formula as CTD Labs Adrenal Reset or you can try the new thing Adrenosurge by BPS (i bought one and will do it in few months).
Ive used Revamp and Adrenosurge both. Liked both very much. Cant go wrong with either.

Revamp is 19.99, Adrenosurge is 19.97.

ADRENOSURGE
Asparagus Racemosus Extract100 mg4,000%
Argyreia speciosa Extract100 mg**
Bacopa monnieri 20:1100 mg**
Rhodiola rosea (8% Rosavins)100 mg**
Ashwagandha 20:1100 mg**
Bovine Adrenal Extract150 mg**
Evolvulus Alsinoide Extract100 mg**



REVAMP

Pantothenic Acid (as Di-Calcium Pantothenate 400 mg 4,000%

Revamp Complex:

Rhodiola Rosea extract (3% rosavins), Schizandra, Licorice
150 mg **

Adrenal Relief Complex:

Bovine Adrenal Extract, Pregnenolone
150 mg
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Do you guys read these things? He mentions libido once, then lists much more serious problems such as depression and anxiety etc. likely caused by mis use or overuse of t boosters, yet you still have to pimp your stuff. Not every post you make has to mention your products, sheesh. Anyways, end of rant. OP get blood work done to see what's going on. Have you had any other life changes recently that might have you feeling down?
actually I was referring to the post above mine because another rep was actually talking about me (and others) and while you mention depression and anxiety I actually find the ALC in testabolan to help tremendously in this respect. no seriously.. I was in this guys shoes not too long ago. so I could have mentioned that I suppose, but really im here to help people and if I didn't feel this could help in his situation I wouldn't have said anything, regardless of the product. but since you bring up our products and pimping them, lets not pretend like you know what my role as a rep is or isn't mmmm k?
 
HIT4ME

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I don't want to single anyone out in this thread because I believe that everyone IS trying to help and most of the people who have responded I've seen to be very helpful on this board, regardless of their comments on this topic. I just want to point out a little bit of humor in that this thread has gone like this, (I'm exaggerating for effect):

OP: I have some problems.
Poster: Get off all supplements and get some blood work done.
Other poster: "Get off all supplements!?" How could you suggest such a thing!? He obviously needs MORE supplements!

I think everyone one here would agree that some of the supplements listed *may* help your situation. But taking supplements without blood work and in light of all the chemistry you have already been doing, based on some suggestion over the 'net is like playing russion roulette. You are just hoping you know the right problem. If a supplement company took this approach to formulating a product on this board, we would bash them for their lack of scientific rigor.

Take a 4-8 week break from all supplements (you won't die), go see a doctor, get some blood work and figure out what the real issue is.

Lately I've seen so many people on here take a supplement, then come down with something, and blame the supplements. The fact is that 90% of the supplements out there do very little, and jumping to them as the cause of what ails you is no different than thinking they made your muscles grow so fast.

In other words, the supplements add more variables. If you believe they are actually noticeably effective (which some are) then it is more variables that could be in your favor or against you to a significant degree. If you believe they are not effective, then it is more variables and isn't causing your problem to begin with.
 
koi1214

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I don't want to single anyone out in this thread because I believe that everyone IS trying to help and most of the people who have responded I've seen to be very helpful on this board, regardless of their comments on this topic. I just want to point out a little bit of humor in that this thread has gone like this, (I'm exaggerating for effect):

OP: I have some problems.
Poster: Get off all supplements and get some blood work done.
Other poster: "Get off all supplements!?" How could you suggest such a thing!? He obviously needs MORE supplements!

I think everyone one here would agree that some of the supplements listed *may* help your situation. But taking supplements without blood work and in light of all the chemistry you have already been doing, based on some suggestion over the 'net is like playing russion roulette. You are just hoping you know the right problem. If a supplement company took this approach to formulating a product on this board, we would bash them for their lack of scientific rigor.



Take a 4-8 week break from all supplements (you won't die), go see a doctor, get some blood work and figure out what the real issue is.

Lately I've seen so many people on here take a supplement, then come down with something, and blame the supplements. The fact is that 90% of the supplements out there do very little, and jumping to them as the cause of what ails you is no different than thinking they made your muscles grow so fast.

In other words, the supplements add more variables. If you believe they are actually noticeably effective (which some are) then it is more variables that could be in your favor or against you to a significant degree. If you believe they are not effective, then it is more variables and isn't causing your problem to begin with.
x2 Well put.
 
nicksox15

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actually I was referring to the post above mine because another rep was actually talking about me (and others) and while you mention depression and anxiety I actually find the ALC in testabolan to help tremendously in this respect. no seriously.. I was in this guys shoes not too long ago. so I could have mentioned that I suppose, but really im here to help people and if I didn't feel this could help in his situation I wouldn't have said anything, regardless of the product. but since you bring up our products and pimping them, lets not pretend like you know what my role as a rep is or isn't mmmm k?
It may have very well helped you but its obvious from his initial post he's been on all kinds of stuff lately so to suggest he add something else into it is irresponsible. I'm a rep as well and I know my role is to promote our product, but in a responsible way. Is that not your role?
 
Jiigzz

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I think its obvious how much reading goes into the threads by some of the reps here.
For your troubles i recommend Focus XT!
 
Jiigzz

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I was taking formestane and some left over dermacrine, just to use it up and give a natural test boost Lowering the estrogen a bit in the hope it would increase testosterone.

I upped the dosage, as formestane reps stated that it converts to a mild PH in high doses but without the drawbacks, however it killed libido really bad, so i scaled it back to just a low dose and then stopped both completely.

Libido was on the floor so bought some MACA, ginseng, etc. and it seemed to help a bit (the desire but not the ‘boing!’, upgrading to AI perform last week which has MACA plus tribulus, longjack and H.Goat weed.

After using it for about 5 days, i still feel rubbish.. got anxiety, cant sleep properly, tired (i fall asleep as soon as i get in from work), feel depressed and lethergic, cant concentrate and focus, procrastination is in full force. I just want to quit work and go to bed

Ive bought some DAA and 5-htp in the hope I get sleep, cheers me up and maybe gets me back on track, ill stop the AI perform in case something in it isn’t making me feel good.

Am i too low on the Estrogen, even still after a few weeks? Will DAA help?
But for real i recommend giving yourself sometime off everything and getting blood work done if it is at all possible.
Blurring the issue with more supplements is not, IMO, the correct way to do things but some people like taking stuff to fix everything.
It may be that your estrogen is too low and just allowing time to recover should reverse these things. On the other hand, formeron may have suppressed you slightly and that could be another factor.
 

Toff

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Well an update, and thanks for (some) of the responses, however I do believe, going on logic, ive tanked my estrogen.
Ive taken a strong AI - too much of, for 5 weeks, solo (im not on any AAS or PH) and its completely eliminated the estrogen.
Ive then used herbs which should 'help' but they've just added more anxiety and stress (especially ginseng which is again srong, very stimulating.)

Yesterday the bulk DAA arrived. I felt so down in the dumps and not with it, even after my workout (which normally gets those endorphins going) - I sunk 3g.

Wow. Today I feel amazing, I had the best nights sleep in ages, and Ive woken up, for once, not grumpy and having a go at the missus - literally feel on top of the world again

Im going to continue for 12 days and monitor the situation, it feels like ive really been jump started - all the other herbs are in the top drawer for another day clearely not what my body wanted

Ive not needed the 5htp as I feel 'happy' - I bought that because of the real depression that kicked in a week ago
 
CheslinK

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Well an update, and thanks for (some) of the responses, however I do believe, going on logic, ive tanked my estrogen.
Ive taken a strong AI - too much of, for 5 weeks, solo (im not on any AAS or PH) and its completely eliminated the estrogen.
Ive then used herbs which should 'help' but they've just added more anxiety and stress (especially ginseng which is again srong, very stimulating.)

Yesterday the bulk DAA arrived. I felt so down in the dumps and not with it, even after my workout (which normally gets those endorphins going) - I sunk 3g.

Wow. Today I feel amazing, I had the best nights sleep in ages, and Ive woken up, for once, not grumpy and having a go at the missus - literally feel on top of the world again

Im going to continue for 12 days and monitor the situation, it feels like ive really been jump started - all the other herbs are in the top drawer for another day clearely not what my body wanted

Ive not needed the 5htp as I feel 'happy' - I bought that because of the real depression that kicked in a week ago
Just read through the thread. Just an interesting topic, didn't really have anything to add.

I'm really happy to hear you have improved though, congrats!
 

Toff

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Thanks man

High dose formestane is suppressive, but unsure how much - estrogen is also gone, prior to the supression, so there IS a drawback to high dose formestane, you need to PCT a bit with more than just herbs. DAA obviously boosting both, even by a few doses its made a major difference. Something to watch when trying formestane, i was gettign gains from the 8 pumps a day
 
kenpoengineer

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Interesting that DAA did this to you in one dose. Are you sure that this wasn't placebo and the mere fact that you stopped taking the other supplements, AIs, etc ? DAA effects are simply not that quick. In fact, DAA effects are not really conclusively "proven" to increase test.
 

Toff

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Well ive been off the AI's for weeks, i still took AI perfom last night (needed it ;) so nothing had changed other than the DAA supplementation.

Maybe I was THAT low, either way feel normal/good today

AI's the company (AI sports), not an AI.
 
kenpoengineer

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That's good to hear for you. Nothing worse than sleep and energy issues. The problem now is what caused your issues to begin with. You can get affordable bloodwork on privatemdlabs. May want to get the female hormone panel (includes E2). Good luck man.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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It may have very well helped you but its obvious from his initial post he's been on all kinds of stuff lately so to suggest he add something else into it is irresponsible. I'm a rep as well and I know my role is to promote our product, but in a responsible way. Is that not your role?
listen nick, ive been repping for longer than performax labs has even been around. I am also 42 yrs old and have been using supplements and lifting weights since 1990. I have in that time, studied and forgotten more than most people on these boards on those subjects. and for you to be calling me out is funny. no really its funny! because here is a quote from the OG post I made that youre now calling irresponsible.. " I do recommend blood work to find out if there isn't an underlying cause. if everything is in check... "
so this is the last post on this point. STFU and you rep how you want to rep fgt. leave me out of your frivolous attacks.

BTW... I used this post for one of my quotas... you mad I didn't rep you a product bra?
 
nicksox15

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Glad I could help your quota, lol. Glad to hear you've been repping and lifting so long, it's very pertinent to this convo. I'm definitely not the only one who was thinking this either, but I'll fall on the sword for it.
 

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Thanks man

High dose formestane is suppressive, but unsure how much - estrogen is also gone, prior to the supression, so there IS a drawback to high dose formestane, you need to PCT a bit with more than just herbs. DAA obviously boosting both, even by a few doses its made a major difference. Something to watch when trying formestane, i was gettign gains from the 8 pumps a day
Interesting discussion. Low E2 made me slugglish, so I back off formeron to 3 pumps over 2 days. Added DAA as it raises both test and estrogen, fish oil (5-10gm daily) for joint support and ZMA for sleep and test support. Try and make sure I get at least 8 hours sleep and space for more if my body has not completely rejuvenated. Also threw in testofen (fenugreek extract), which has some good research for natural test increases.
 
goodvibes

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That's good to hear for you. Nothing worse than sleep and energy issues. The problem now is what caused your issues to begin with. You can get affordable bloodwork on privatemdlabs. May want to get the female hormone panel (includes E2). Good luck man.
He was running 8 pumps of formeron/formestane
 

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I'm very sensitive to any AI, must just naturally not aromatose much. When I tanked my estrogen down using supplements I felt depressed, low libido, anxious, couldn't sleep etc, took a few weeks to normalise when I stopped using it. Don't take this as medical advice however it's a good possibility you're dropped your estrogen too low, sounds very similar to what I experienced
 

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8 pumps a day is excessive to say the least, IMO. The bickering and jabbing of reps on this site is really getting old, AM is becoming more drama filled in the last few months. Alot of threads start out informative and then the Reps start going at each other, I hope this stops as I am finishing less and less threads when the drama starts. Just my two cents !!!!!
 

patrick25

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8 pumps a day is excessive to say the least, IMO. The bickering and jabbing of reps on this site is really getting old, AM is becoming more drama filled in the last few months. Alot of threads start out informative and then the Reps start going at each other, I hope this stops as I am finishing less and less threads when the drama starts. Just my two cents !!!!!
I think there's the my product better than his to
 

saggy321

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Glad I could help your quota, lol. Glad to hear you've been repping and lifting so long, it's very pertinent to this convo. I'm definitely not the only one who was thinking this either, but I'll fall on the sword for it.
Definitely not the only one thinking this. And yes it's getting quite tiresome.
 

Toff

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I'm very sensitive to any AI, must just naturally not aromatose much. When I tanked my estrogen down using supplements I felt depressed, low libido, anxious, couldn't sleep etc, took a few weeks to normalise when I stopped using it. Don't take this as medical advice however it's a good possibility you're dropped your estrogen too low, sounds very similar to what I experienced
Yep, sounds it. I feel a lot more natural since. Had to stop daa as i went abroad (dogey looking bag of white powder!) but back on it now - feel totally normal.
AI perform doesnt do anything but make me grumpy.
I hit that many pumps because there was soo much talk online about it turning into a ph at high dose with no negs.. well obviously it hammers estrogen so hard, yes it may turn into a PH but you feel crap you dont get the benefits.

very low dose from now on, though im taking a break. erase high dose did similar had to shave it back to 1-2 caps opposed to 3 (old formula)
 
Joshlm69

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Has to be said. EVERY single time an iForce rep enters a thread, all they do is try to push their own products. Its pathetic.
 
Joshlm69

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Toff, the BPS Adrenosurge, as mentioned may really help you. im not a rep and I've suffered a lot of what you have recently, so have been studying herbs quite a bit. It really looks like a fantastic make up of decently dosed herbs. They arent going to aid with libido but definitely day to day mood :)
 
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I would say its very possible your estrogen is on the lower side, but its hard to say without bloodwork. I would recommend getting off all hormonal products for a bit and your body will adjust back to homeostasis rapidly.
I agree with Kevin. Just quite popping stuff in your mouth man! You should have reset after the Derma and Forma killed your libido instead of popping more ****. Dude, this is your body we are talking about here. Get some ****ing bloods done and quit being a dumbass.
 
Joshlm69

Joshlm69

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If you were taking 8 pumps of formeron your estrogen is non existant. that is stupid high, especially for someone not on PH/AAS.

When I was doing 4 pumps of formeron for 3 days, i crushed my estrogen for 2 weeks. think youll have to reset for 6-8 weeks man.... not sure what would posses you to do 8 pumps, thats just insane
 
Blergs

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if your going to do a pct do a real PCT with serms.... and get blood work and stopp just taking all sorts of crap for the heck of it.... IMO
 
SwolenONE

SwolenONE

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Blood work and a visit to the. Sounds like your hormone profile may be out of whack.
 
Spaniard

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This is why I personally recommend only using Formestane on cycle as an AI. I also don't think it wise to high dose it for its conversion to 4 Hydroxy.
 

TTWSUFree

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This is why I personally recommend only using Formestane on cycle as an AI. I also don't think it wise to high dose it for its conversion to 4 Hydroxy.
Can you explain further the rationale behind
-- recommend only using Formestane on cycle as an AI
-- don't think it wise to high dose it for its conversion to 4 Hydroxy

Thanks,
TTWSUFree
 
Jiigzz

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Can you explain further the rationale behind
-- recommend only using Formestane on cycle as an AI
-- don't think it wise to high dose it for its conversion to 4 Hydroxy

Thanks,
TTWSUFree
Its a potent ai that converts to 4 hydroxy test.

Its not a natty product
 

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