Follidrone and Viron Stack

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  1. Follidrone and Viron Stack


    I am waiting on 2 bottles each of Follidrone and Viron.

    Based on user feedback what would be the best way to stack these?

    Side by side for 8 weeks or a staggered 12 week stack?

    Should/would I need to run Erase Pro in conjunction with it?

    Anything else you would stack with them?

    Thanks.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Shin Sprints View Post
    I am waiting on 2 bottles each of Follidrone and Viron.

    Based on user feedback what would be the best way to stack these?

    Side by side for 8 weeks or a staggered 12 week stack?

    Should/would I need to run Erase Pro in conjunction with it?

    Anything else you would stack with them?

    Thanks.
    Side by side 8 weeks.
    If you are estrogen sensitive its possible high test levels from the viron could elevate estro enough to be troublesome. In this case an ai would be a good idea.
    I would use formeron as your ai.
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  3. Thanks.

    How would one know if I am having troublesome estrogen? Puffy nipples? Anything else?

    Better to run an AI as insurance or assess as the stack progresses?

    Thanks.
    •   
       


  4. Try not to worry about it. Lots of guys read about gyno and automatically think they have it.
    Id say 30% at least of the gyno you read about on the forums is psychosomatic.

    I would certainly, if it were me, run FOrmeron with it.

    Tons of added benefit and then no concern about estrogen.
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  5. While I have you here :-)

    Any dietary recommendations? Higher Protein? Higher Carbs?

    I am eating about 3000 cals a day for a recomp, weight is steady and slight leaning out...approx macros at the moment P = 30%, C =25%, F = 45%.

    I train fasted (BCAAs) in the morning.

    Thanks.

  6. This is a HIGHLY customized question.
    Keep in mind every person is different. Some guys can eat gummie bears all day and stay lean. Some can put one sugar in their coffee and get fat from it.
    It also depends on if you natural or enhanced.

    If it were me and I was running Follidrone, Formeron, Viron.

    If bulking I would eat high protein. 2g per lb of bodyweight.
    Med carbs
    med fat.
    I would also include 1 refeed day per week where you eat anything you want as long as its food. No candy or cake or ice cream.
    Lasagne, pizza, breads, cheese, huge turkey burgers (my fav). This is fine.

    Aim for 500 cals over maintenance. If you start to get chubby back off the carbs by 10% and increase fat and pro by 5 each. + add in extra cardio.
    Cardio is either done fasting in the AM or post training. NEVER pre training.

    Try to structure your carbs primarily around training and cut them off for the last meal or 2 of the day.

    6 meals.
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  7. Thanks.

    It was more a general question as if there would be any tweaking to get as much benefits as possible.

    I am natural and I am hitting limits of protein (1.5g/lb, I don't really want to hit more than that) so bumping calories to around 3500 (500 above maintenance as you suggest) would mean consuming more carbs and/or fat. I am not a huge carb eater so that is likely where I can get the extra calories from...I guess I can give it a few weeks of around 250g of carbs and see how things go and tweak from there.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Try not to worry about it. Lots of guys read about gyno and automatically think they have it.
    Id say 30% at least of the gyno you read about on the forums is psychosomatic.

    I would certainly, if it were me, run FOrmeron with it.

    Tons of added benefit and then no concern about estrogen.
    This....formeron is awesome is AI you want to choose with any stack.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Shin Sprints View Post
    I am waiting on 2 bottles each of Follidrone and Viron.

    Based on user feedback what would be the best way to stack these?

    Side by side for 8 weeks or a staggered 12 week stack?

    Should/would I need to run Erase Pro in conjunction with it?

    Anything else you would stack with them?

    Thanks.
    There's no way what you are taking should cause gyno.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    There's no way what you are taking should cause gyno.
    came in to say this its all natty stuff, tongkat/boron should not cause that and epi(-) has no studies with anything gyno related as far as ive read... but if youre paranoid, Alphamax Formeron Erase/Pro or anything with Arimistane is a good choice (Not to discredit BLR Brundel)
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by iThrow View Post

    came in to say this its all natty stuff, tongkat/boron should not cause that and epi(-) has no studies with anything gyno related as far as ive read... but if youre paranoid, Alphamax Formeron Erase/Pro or anything with Arimistane is a good choice (Not to discredit BLR Brundel)
    Unless he has pre-existing conditions, that stack should work well for him without any risk of negative side effects. Brundle at what level is boron toxic?
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  12. While I agree that most OTC test boosting products will not likely cause gyno I firmly believe this is an exception.

    Viron can lead to estrogen levels high enough to see gyno symptoms. I hate saying this not because the product can raise estro (this is a good sign actually)
    But because there are already so many people who have psychosomatic gyno.

    Viron will raise test levels. When test rises so does estrogen. So if test is abnormally high estrogen will also be abnormally high. Generally speaking.
    Also lowering SHBG releases free test which is super good for us bodybuilders. It also releases other sex hormones bound to the SHBG one of which is estrogen.

    So we have rising test levels which raises estrogen plus the estrogen rise we get from the low SHBG.
    This CAN in some cases lead to gyno or pre gyno symptoms.

    This is why I keep recommending Formeron with it. if your taking an AI at least you wont get the rise from aromatase conversion.

    Feel free to believe otherwise but dont forget I told you so
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    Unless he has pre-existing conditions, that stack should work well for him without any risk of negative side effects. Brundle at what level is boron toxic?
    Id have to look to confirm this. Its relatively high though.
    Even 30mg boron citrate daily is well within the range.

    In studies regarding boron and test levels, SHBG, Vit D, cortisol etc 10mg tetroborate I believe was used. This is comparable to 10mg boron citrate.
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post

    Id have to look to confirm this. Its relatively high though.
    Even 30mg boron citrate daily is well within the range.

    In studies regarding boron and test levels, SHBG, Vit D, cortisol etc 10mg tetroborate I believe was used. This is comparable to 10mg boron citrate.
    Gotcha thanks
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    While I agree that most OTC test boosting products will not likely cause gyno I firmly believe this is an exception. Viron can lead to estrogen levels high enough to see gyno symptoms. I hate saying this not because the product can raise estro (this is a good sign actually) But because there are already so many people who have psychosomatic gyno. Viron will raise test levels. When test rises so does estrogen. So if test is abnormally high estrogen will also be abnormally high. Generally speaking. Also lowering SHBG releases free test which is super good for us bodybuilders. It also releases other sex hormones bound to the SHBG one of which is estrogen. So we have rising test levels which raises estrogen plus the estrogen rise we get from the low SHBG. This CAN in some cases lead to gyno or pre gyno symptoms. This is why I keep recommending Formeron with it. if your taking an AI at least you wont get the rise from aromatase conversion. Feel free to believe otherwise but dont forget I told you so
    perfectly stated. I've just heard too many people with the "oh man I'm on day one of DAA and my nipples seem bigger" story... People forget when test rises so does estrogen which is why you take an AI.
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  16. Lots of guys also are so worried about it they pinch and squeeze the nipples 39845039485304534 times a day then say....well they are puffy so I have gyno.
    if you didnt pinch them all day they wouldnt be puffy lol.

    Ai will only let test levels rise even higher so its really a win win.
    Coming soon 2 new AIs from Black Lion Research. Oral and transdermal.
    Sign up for our mailing list to get updates regarding product launches and discounts.
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  17. Thanks, no gyno that I am aware of because I have never gone near anything that isn't a natty product but I was just wondering if Erase Pro (new formula) would be of use on the stack. I was asking about Erase Pro as I have two bottles sitting at home.

    Isn't Formeron a PH? I am reluctant to go down a PH road...maybe I am naive and paranoid with this question!

    Thanks again!

  18. In the study in men showing that Boron increased testosterone, it also reduced estrogen by 50%

    Also, while it has never been specifically tested in vivo, Tongkat Ali is by all indications anti-estrogenic

    You don't need to run an AI with either of those ingredients, and given the estrogen reduction from Boron I see no reason why you would want to.
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  19. Viron + Formeron is a killer stack. I only picked up enough for 4 weeks and regret that.

    I do have some formabolic en route and ill pick up more viron after my epi run. Great products
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by Shin Sprints View Post
    Thanks, no gyno that I am aware of because I have never gone near anything that isn't a natty product but I was just wondering if Erase Pro (new formula) would be of use on the stack. I was asking about Erase Pro as I have two bottles sitting at home.

    Isn't Formeron a PH? I am reluctant to go down a PH road...maybe I am naive and paranoid with this question!

    Thanks again!
    I personally cant answer the bolded, but yes Erase/Erase Pro is an AI and would be ok to stack, although there isnt really that much of a need
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by iThrow View Post
    I personally cant answer the bolded, but yes Erase/Erase Pro is an AI and would be ok to stack, although there isnt really that much of a need
    Thanks for the response. I guess I have the bottles so maybe no harm in running it along with the Follidrone and Viron...I am hoping I have the mail by the end of the week so I can start the stack next Monday :-)

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Shin Sprints View Post
    Thanks, no gyno that I am aware of because I have never gone near anything that isn't a natty product but I was just wondering if Erase Pro (new formula) would be of use on the stack. I was asking about Erase Pro as I have two bottles sitting at home.

    Isn't Formeron a PH? I am reluctant to go down a PH road...maybe I am naive and paranoid with this question!

    Thanks again!
    Its a very mild PH. Primarily its an AI but it does have anabolic properties.
    You dont need any PCT
    Its non suppressive
    doesnt have any side effects for most users.

    The combo of Viron and Formeron is a very good one though and its not like taking a prohormone where you have to deal with PCT and other negatives.
    Coming soon 2 new AIs from Black Lion Research. Oral and transdermal.
    Sign up for our mailing list to get updates regarding product launches and discounts.
    http://www.blacklionresearch.com/contact/

  23. Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Lots of guys also are so worried about it they pinch and squeeze the nipples 39845039485304534 times a day then say....well they are puffy so I have gyno.
    if you didnt pinch them all day they wouldnt be puffy lol.

    Ai will only let test levels rise even higher so its really a win win.
    That's a lot of tittie twisters. I need to check out Viron sounds like a good time.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by iThrow View Post
    perfectly stated. I've just heard too many people with the "oh man I'm on day one of DAA and my nipples seem bigger" story... People forget when test rises so does estrogen which is why you take an AI.
    That's some placebro effect there As we can see from the studies, DAA raises test levels well for those that are hitting at sub-optimal levels whilst doing little to nothing for those at natural optimal levels of t.

  25. It looks like I will get delivery of my Follidrone and Viron stack by the end of the week so I can start the 8 weeks on Monday :-)

    Looking forward to it!

    My goal would be a body recomp...I am about 11% bf so if I could lean out and gain a little size I would be happy.

    Add 75-100mg F95 and 2-3g TMG to the mix?

  26. Why not give it a shot on it's own before adding things. Can it help, yeah. Will you be able to really tell the benefits you are getting from the Viron/FD, perhaps less so because of the additional variables.
    Black Lion Research Representative

  27. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Why not give it a shot on it's own before adding things. Can it help, yeah. Will you be able to really tell the benefits you are getting from the Viron/FD, perhaps less so because of the additional variables.
    Thanks and fair point!

  28. A quick dosing question...

    Follidrone - two tabs 30 minutes pre-workout? I train fasted (some Amino IV 30 minutes before workout)

    Viron - 5 days on, 2 days off? Pre-workout with the Follidrone?

    Does fasted training have an impact on when to take?

    Thanks.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post

    That's a lot of tittie twisters. I need to check out Viron sounds like a good time.
    "thanked" hahahah
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  30. I picked up my package yesterday...couldn't wait till Monday to try the stack so I started this morning :-)

    2 Follidrone and 1 Viron about 45 minutes before fasted (Amino IV) workout.

    Fingers crossed I see some good results.

  31. Quote Originally Posted by Shin Sprints View Post
    I picked up my package yesterday...couldn't wait till Monday to try the stack so I started this morning :-)

    2 Follidrone and 1 Viron about 45 minutes before fasted (Amino IV) workout.

    Fingers crossed I see some good results.
    Viron you can take whenever. Some people really notice a boost from tongkat...some dont. Try it pre workout but its not necessary.
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  32. Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Viron you can take whenever. Some people really notice a boost from tongkat...some dont. Try it pre workout but its not necessary.
    The better extracts will give you some nice wood, that's for sure Good ingredient in my books.

  33. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    The better extracts will give you some nice wood, that's for sure Good ingredient in my books.
    you run viron and folli yet kiss?

    was looking on another forum and realized we had quite the spat a year back on a natty product, random comment of the day, boy how time flies
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  34. Quote Originally Posted by iThrow View Post
    you run viron and folli yet kiss?

    was looking on another forum and realized we had quite the spat a year back on a natty product, random comment of the day, boy how time flies
    Nah, but I've used my fair share of tongkat extracts aka long jack

    Not a clue what we spat about but it's nice that we, at least I, don't remember it. LoL.

  35. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Nah, but I've used my fair share of tongkat extracts aka long jack

    Not a clue what we spat about but it's nice that we, at least I, don't remember it. LoL.
    i think the only one that i have used was in AI's Perform. which was nice to say the least

    i dont remember either, its nice that were friends now, always have to check on threads you post in so i can get my daily science lesson
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  36. Thanks all...I am long forward to seeing how things go!

  37. i usually take my viron in morning or preworkout but i took it before bed last night because I forgot to take it earlier and I immediately went to sleep and woke up later very well rested...

  38. From user experience what is that typical lead time into Follidrone to start feeling/seeing the results? 3-4 weeks?

    Thanks.

  39. Quote Originally Posted by Shin Sprints View Post
    From user experience what is that typical lead time into Follidrone to start feeling/seeing the results? 3-4 weeks? Thanks.
    I think it varies but endurance comes on quick, like first week quick. After around 5 weeks or so is where my strength gains really became noticible. Like, there is zero chance it's anything but the follidrone noticible. Buy 2 bottles minimum.
  

  
 

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