Follidrone and Viron Stack

Shin Sprints

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I am waiting on 2 bottles each of Follidrone and Viron.

Based on user feedback what would be the best way to stack these?

Side by side for 8 weeks or a staggered 12 week stack?

Should/would I need to run Erase Pro in conjunction with it?

Anything else you would stack with them?

Thanks.
 
brundel

brundel

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I am waiting on 2 bottles each of Follidrone and Viron.

Based on user feedback what would be the best way to stack these?

Side by side for 8 weeks or a staggered 12 week stack?

Should/would I need to run Erase Pro in conjunction with it?

Anything else you would stack with them?

Thanks.
Side by side 8 weeks.
If you are estrogen sensitive its possible high test levels from the viron could elevate estro enough to be troublesome. In this case an ai would be a good idea.
I would use formeron as your ai.
 

Shin Sprints

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Thanks.

How would one know if I am having troublesome estrogen? Puffy nipples? Anything else?

Better to run an AI as insurance or assess as the stack progresses?

Thanks.
 
brundel

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Try not to worry about it. Lots of guys read about gyno and automatically think they have it.
Id say 30% at least of the gyno you read about on the forums is psychosomatic.

I would certainly, if it were me, run FOrmeron with it.

Tons of added benefit and then no concern about estrogen.
 

Shin Sprints

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While I have you here :)

Any dietary recommendations? Higher Protein? Higher Carbs?

I am eating about 3000 cals a day for a recomp, weight is steady and slight leaning out...approx macros at the moment P = 30%, C =25%, F = 45%.

I train fasted (BCAAs) in the morning.

Thanks.
 
brundel

brundel

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This is a HIGHLY customized question.
Keep in mind every person is different. Some guys can eat gummie bears all day and stay lean. Some can put one sugar in their coffee and get fat from it.
It also depends on if you natural or enhanced.

If it were me and I was running Follidrone, Formeron, Viron.

If bulking I would eat high protein. 2g per lb of bodyweight.
Med carbs
med fat.
I would also include 1 refeed day per week where you eat anything you want as long as its food. No candy or cake or ice cream.
Lasagne, pizza, breads, cheese, huge turkey burgers (my fav). This is fine.

Aim for 500 cals over maintenance. If you start to get chubby back off the carbs by 10% and increase fat and pro by 5 each. + add in extra cardio.
Cardio is either done fasting in the AM or post training. NEVER pre training.

Try to structure your carbs primarily around training and cut them off for the last meal or 2 of the day.

6 meals.
 

Shin Sprints

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Thanks.

It was more a general question as if there would be any tweaking to get as much benefits as possible.

I am natural and I am hitting limits of protein (1.5g/lb, I don't really want to hit more than that) so bumping calories to around 3500 (500 above maintenance as you suggest) would mean consuming more carbs and/or fat. I am not a huge carb eater so that is likely where I can get the extra calories from...I guess I can give it a few weeks of around 250g of carbs and see how things go and tweak from there.
 

bobbybondmo

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Try not to worry about it. Lots of guys read about gyno and automatically think they have it.
Id say 30% at least of the gyno you read about on the forums is psychosomatic.

I would certainly, if it were me, run FOrmeron with it.

Tons of added benefit and then no concern about estrogen.
This....formeron is awesome is AI you want to choose with any stack.
 
fightbackhxc

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I am waiting on 2 bottles each of Follidrone and Viron.

Based on user feedback what would be the best way to stack these?

Side by side for 8 weeks or a staggered 12 week stack?

Should/would I need to run Erase Pro in conjunction with it?

Anything else you would stack with them?

Thanks.
There's no way what you are taking should cause gyno.
 
iThrow

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There's no way what you are taking should cause gyno.
came in to say this :D its all natty stuff, tongkat/boron should not cause that and epi(-) has no studies with anything gyno related as far as ive read... but if youre paranoid, Alphamax Formeron Erase/Pro or anything with Arimistane is a good choice (Not to discredit BLR Brundel) :D
 
fightbackhxc

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came in to say this :D its all natty stuff, tongkat/boron should not cause that and epi(-) has no studies with anything gyno related as far as ive read... but if youre paranoid, Alphamax Formeron Erase/Pro or anything with Arimistane is a good choice (Not to discredit BLR Brundel) :D
Unless he has pre-existing conditions, that stack should work well for him without any risk of negative side effects. Brundle at what level is boron toxic?
 
brundel

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While I agree that most OTC test boosting products will not likely cause gyno I firmly believe this is an exception.

Viron can lead to estrogen levels high enough to see gyno symptoms. I hate saying this not because the product can raise estro (this is a good sign actually)
But because there are already so many people who have psychosomatic gyno.

Viron will raise test levels. When test rises so does estrogen. So if test is abnormally high estrogen will also be abnormally high. Generally speaking.
Also lowering SHBG releases free test which is super good for us bodybuilders. It also releases other sex hormones bound to the SHBG one of which is estrogen.

So we have rising test levels which raises estrogen plus the estrogen rise we get from the low SHBG.
This CAN in some cases lead to gyno or pre gyno symptoms.

This is why I keep recommending Formeron with it. if your taking an AI at least you wont get the rise from aromatase conversion.

Feel free to believe otherwise but dont forget I told you so ;)
 
brundel

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Unless he has pre-existing conditions, that stack should work well for him without any risk of negative side effects. Brundle at what level is boron toxic?
Id have to look to confirm this. Its relatively high though.
Even 30mg boron citrate daily is well within the range.

In studies regarding boron and test levels, SHBG, Vit D, cortisol etc 10mg tetroborate I believe was used. This is comparable to 10mg boron citrate.
 
fightbackhxc

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Id have to look to confirm this. Its relatively high though.
Even 30mg boron citrate daily is well within the range.

In studies regarding boron and test levels, SHBG, Vit D, cortisol etc 10mg tetroborate I believe was used. This is comparable to 10mg boron citrate.
Gotcha thanks
 
iThrow

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While I agree that most OTC test boosting products will not likely cause gyno I firmly believe this is an exception. Viron can lead to estrogen levels high enough to see gyno symptoms. I hate saying this not because the product can raise estro (this is a good sign actually) But because there are already so many people who have psychosomatic gyno. Viron will raise test levels. When test rises so does estrogen. So if test is abnormally high estrogen will also be abnormally high. Generally speaking. Also lowering SHBG releases free test which is super good for us bodybuilders. It also releases other sex hormones bound to the SHBG one of which is estrogen. So we have rising test levels which raises estrogen plus the estrogen rise we get from the low SHBG. This CAN in some cases lead to gyno or pre gyno symptoms. This is why I keep recommending Formeron with it. if your taking an AI at least you wont get the rise from aromatase conversion. Feel free to believe otherwise but dont forget I told you so ;)
perfectly stated. I've just heard too many people with the "oh man I'm on day one of DAA and my nipples seem bigger" story... People forget when test rises so does estrogen which is why you take an AI. :D
 
brundel

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Lots of guys also are so worried about it they pinch and squeeze the nipples 39845039485304534 times a day then say....well they are puffy so I have gyno.
if you didnt pinch them all day they wouldnt be puffy lol.

Ai will only let test levels rise even higher so its really a win win.
 

Shin Sprints

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Thanks, no gyno that I am aware of because I have never gone near anything that isn't a natty product but I was just wondering if Erase Pro (new formula) would be of use on the stack. I was asking about Erase Pro as I have two bottles sitting at home.

Isn't Formeron a PH? I am reluctant to go down a PH road...maybe I am naive and paranoid with this question!

Thanks again!
 

De__eB

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In the study in men showing that Boron increased testosterone, it also reduced estrogen by 50%

Also, while it has never been specifically tested in vivo, Tongkat Ali is by all indications anti-estrogenic

You don't need to run an AI with either of those ingredients, and given the estrogen reduction from Boron I see no reason why you would want to.
 
Jiigzz

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Viron + Formeron is a killer stack. I only picked up enough for 4 weeks and regret that.

I do have some formabolic en route and ill pick up more viron after my epi run. Great products
 
iThrow

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Thanks, no gyno that I am aware of because I have never gone near anything that isn't a natty product but I was just wondering if Erase Pro (new formula) would be of use on the stack. I was asking about Erase Pro as I have two bottles sitting at home.

Isn't Formeron a PH? I am reluctant to go down a PH road...maybe I am naive and paranoid with this question!

Thanks again!
I personally cant answer the bolded, but yes Erase/Erase Pro is an AI and would be ok to stack, although there isnt really that much of a need :D
 

Shin Sprints

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I personally cant answer the bolded, but yes Erase/Erase Pro is an AI and would be ok to stack, although there isnt really that much of a need :D
Thanks for the response. I guess I have the bottles so maybe no harm in running it along with the Follidrone and Viron...I am hoping I have the mail by the end of the week so I can start the stack next Monday :)
 
brundel

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Thanks, no gyno that I am aware of because I have never gone near anything that isn't a natty product but I was just wondering if Erase Pro (new formula) would be of use on the stack. I was asking about Erase Pro as I have two bottles sitting at home.

Isn't Formeron a PH? I am reluctant to go down a PH road...maybe I am naive and paranoid with this question!

Thanks again!
Its a very mild PH. Primarily its an AI but it does have anabolic properties.
You dont need any PCT
Its non suppressive
doesnt have any side effects for most users.

The combo of Viron and Formeron is a very good one though and its not like taking a prohormone where you have to deal with PCT and other negatives.
 
fightbackhxc

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Lots of guys also are so worried about it they pinch and squeeze the nipples 39845039485304534 times a day then say....well they are puffy so I have gyno.
if you didnt pinch them all day they wouldnt be puffy lol.

Ai will only let test levels rise even higher so its really a win win.
That's a lot of tittie twisters. I need to check out Viron sounds like a good time.
 

kissdadookie

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perfectly stated. I've just heard too many people with the "oh man I'm on day one of DAA and my nipples seem bigger" story... People forget when test rises so does estrogen which is why you take an AI. :D
That's some placebro effect there ;) As we can see from the studies, DAA raises test levels well for those that are hitting at sub-optimal levels whilst doing little to nothing for those at natural optimal levels of t.
 

Shin Sprints

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It looks like I will get delivery of my Follidrone and Viron stack by the end of the week so I can start the 8 weeks on Monday :)

Looking forward to it!

My goal would be a body recomp...I am about 11% bf so if I could lean out and gain a little size I would be happy.

Add 75-100mg F95 and 2-3g TMG to the mix?
 

kisaj

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Why not give it a shot on it's own before adding things. Can it help, yeah. Will you be able to really tell the benefits you are getting from the Viron/FD, perhaps less so because of the additional variables.
 

Shin Sprints

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Why not give it a shot on it's own before adding things. Can it help, yeah. Will you be able to really tell the benefits you are getting from the Viron/FD, perhaps less so because of the additional variables.
Thanks and fair point!
 

Shin Sprints

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A quick dosing question...

Follidrone - two tabs 30 minutes pre-workout? I train fasted (some Amino IV 30 minutes before workout)

Viron - 5 days on, 2 days off? Pre-workout with the Follidrone?

Does fasted training have an impact on when to take?

Thanks.
 
Jiigzz

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Shin Sprints

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I picked up my package yesterday...couldn't wait till Monday to try the stack so I started this morning :)

2 Follidrone and 1 Viron about 45 minutes before fasted (Amino IV) workout.

Fingers crossed I see some good results.
 
brundel

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I picked up my package yesterday...couldn't wait till Monday to try the stack so I started this morning :)

2 Follidrone and 1 Viron about 45 minutes before fasted (Amino IV) workout.

Fingers crossed I see some good results.
Viron you can take whenever. Some people really notice a boost from tongkat...some dont. Try it pre workout but its not necessary.
 

kissdadookie

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Viron you can take whenever. Some people really notice a boost from tongkat...some dont. Try it pre workout but its not necessary.
The better extracts will give you some nice wood, that's for sure :D Good ingredient in my books.
 
iThrow

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The better extracts will give you some nice wood, that's for sure :D Good ingredient in my books.
you run viron and folli yet kiss?

was looking on another forum and realized we had quite the spat a year back on a natty product, random comment of the day, boy how time flies ;)
 

kissdadookie

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you run viron and folli yet kiss?

was looking on another forum and realized we had quite the spat a year back on a natty product, random comment of the day, boy how time flies ;)
Nah, but I've used my fair share of tongkat extracts aka long jack ;)

Not a clue what we spat about but it's nice that we, at least I, don't remember it. LoL.
 
iThrow

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Nah, but I've used my fair share of tongkat extracts aka long jack ;)

Not a clue what we spat about but it's nice that we, at least I, don't remember it. LoL.
i think the only one that i have used was in AI's Perform. which was nice to say the least ;)

i dont remember either, its nice that were friends now, always have to check on threads you post in so i can get my daily science lesson
 

Shin Sprints

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Thanks all...I am long forward to seeing how things go!
 
wolfpack893

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i usually take my viron in morning or preworkout but i took it before bed last night because I forgot to take it earlier and I immediately went to sleep and woke up later very well rested...
 

Shin Sprints

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From user experience what is that typical lead time into Follidrone to start feeling/seeing the results? 3-4 weeks?

Thanks.
 
toddmuelheim

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From user experience what is that typical lead time into Follidrone to start feeling/seeing the results? 3-4 weeks? Thanks.
I think it varies but endurance comes on quick, like first week quick. After around 5 weeks or so is where my strength gains really became noticible. Like, there is zero chance it's anything but the follidrone noticible. Buy 2 bottles minimum.
 

kisaj

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For most it is pretty fast on the endurance side, as mentioned. As the endurance builds and people start getting used to being able to increase volume or workload, the strength increases come after a few weeks or so. The reason it is being mentioned to take it to 8 weeks minimum is not because it takes that long for FD to work, it is to take advantage of what it is allowing you to be capable of. It just doesn't stop and you'll be disappointed if you can't carry it on after 4 weeks.
 
Joshlm69

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Been on viron/folli for a month, highly recommend this stack.

IMO, you definitely wont need an AI if you are dosing this combo. I havent noticed any symptoms what so ever. However if you dose Viron at 2 pills a day you may need an AI, I think coop said in another thread that boron at 20mg a day CAN increase estro quite substantially
 
wolfpack893

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i think the time is different for everyone. Although most people notice it within the first week, I didnt start seeing the great endurance until the second week, and now weights are slightly going up.
 
brundel

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It is different for everyone. There were some guys who saw pretty significant increases in the first 4 weeks.
Some gained 6-11lbs bulking with Follidrone in 4 weeks or less.
Lots of guys hit PRs and lost bodyfat etc etc all in 4 weeks or less.

It really depends on how hard you focus. If you wait for it to work then your depending on the supplement to do the work.
If you get in there and hit it hard like an animal then your body will begin to change and the supp will shin bright.
Nothing is a magic pill.
Supplements are meant to augment your training program.

So if you hit it with 80% training and diet and dedication you may reach 100% with a supplement.
If you go into the cycle with the mentality that your going to dedicate 100%...you train as hard as you possibly can, your diet it meticulous....you rest and, do everything perfect PLUS you add in Follidrone+ viron stack..youll see 120% of normal.
Does this make sense?

Ill give you an example.
I used to run a cycle and Id think to myself "perfect, now Ill grow because Im running X + X + X!!". The results were lack luster because I was relying on the gear to do the work.
I finally realized that Gear or supps or anything is not a crutch, its NOT the primary mover. It is an additive that will take 100% to 110-120%.
Or...if your not giving it your all youll take 80%-100%.

So.....when your running a supp cycle...plan everything.
Your diet
your training (log book is one of the most important tools)
Your supp cycle
also plan to be dedicated, no alcohol, no late nights, nothing that will deter you from your goal.

Most people can do this for 8-12 weeks.
Give it 100% and the supps will take you to 120%.

I see lots of guys take a supp and say well nothing is happening although we know that suppX works.
Alot of the time its because the user is lazy....they are waiting for the supp to work for them to put the work in.
The key is to start with the hard work and when the supp kicks the results will be extraordinary.
 

Shin Sprints

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Thanks! Good words.

I am a pretty consistent with diet and training and keep records of food and weights so should be on point there.

I generally change my routine every 4 weeks and follow a Monday-Friday PHAT routine. I always push myself to lift as heavy as I can so I have a fair idea of where I am strength wise at any moment in time so I am looking forward to seeing what happens...no magic pill for sure but it would be nice to see me breaking so PRs, if I do I will know how the stack plays out, or if I hit it have have better endurance without the PRs.

My main issue is putting on muscle, strength is good, the hypertrophy is another story though! Maybe time to eat more and up calories to around 3500 from 3000.

Anyway, thanks all for the feedback.
 
brundel

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Yah growing is a food dependent. Eat more and youll get bigger.
 

Shin Sprints

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Will do!

I thought 3000 would be enough...it isn't :p

I won't complain though, at 3000 strength is slowly continuing to increase, weight stays the same and I am every so slightly leaner...not bad all in all. Just would be nice to gain a few pounds!
 
brundel

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If your not growing add 500 cals.
If you start to get a little chubby ad in an extra 30min cardio.
 
blacklac

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If your not growing add 500 cals.
If you start to get a little chubby ad in an extra 30min cardio.


Why cardio over cutting back cals? Besides eating is just fun. ;)
 

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