Life After Prohormones?

tclax32 · Jul 9, 2014

Hey guys,

I'm just finishing my last week of PCT before i begin my ten week rest period before PH cycle. However, I find myself frustrated because my gains fluctuate so much and Ive decided that I miight give up PH's all together.

Here is some background info:

As many of you may or may not be aware but prohormones are flooding through the scene of high school sports because kids are frustrated that they havent met their natural potential and want to be the biggest guy on the field. Its promised as the easy way to get big and obviously because there isn't any real drug testing taking place, it's easy for kids to take and go unnoticed. When I was 18 years old, I wanted to put on alot of mass for my last season of high school lacrosse and like many of my high school teammates, I started a halodrol cycle because my friends were getting big from it...quick. Of course Dynaball was still around then so everybody was bulking insanely fast. Looking back it's alarming because many of these guys were unaware of proper PCTs and weren't properly informed about protecting their bodies post cycle and the dilemma continues throughout high schools and small division colleges across the country. As once a collegiate athlete myself at a Division III level, I experienced absolutely no drug testing so everybody was running banned supps at their leisure. Ive seen guys get huge unnaturally fast and Ive watched it all diminish even faster as they ran absolutely no kind of SERM,AI...nothing

Im now 21 years old and I've had multiple cycles over a course of three years. Ive used Haloplex and RPN Havoc(Epi). Havoc was awesome. I went up in almost every lift and physically, my gains were tremendous. My PCT consisted of Nolvadex, Erase, and DAA. Havoc scared me though because of how potent it was and I feared that I was doing serious damage to my body so I stopped and downgraded to a less potent halo. Im pretty sure this last bottle of Haloplex I picked up was bunk considering thiis stuff has been banned from the market. Maybe I'll start a PH cycle back up four years from now, after Ive reached my natural potential but after all of the money Ive dumped in and the gains I've made and lost just as fast, I just dont think its the right time for me to be cycling.

So I would like to run natural supplement stack, consisting of products ive used over the years and new ones as well.

My Stack:

EFX Kre-Alkalyn
Beta-Alanine
GNC MassComplex( I know...it was on sale,though)
USP Labs Modern BCAA
Multivitamin Mega Sport
Pre-Workout(USP Labs Jack3d)
Optimum Fish Oil

I would appreciate any input/suggestions on my new stack and would also appreciate any input on the misinformed youth users of Prohormones as I would really like to address this problem more clearly, hoping to spread the word for kids to do their research

johnnyp · Jul 9, 2014

I mean not to spread the wrong message to kids considering altering their hormones or anything but PHs in general can be summed up by not worth the money for the potential benefits. The money one spends on PHs + support supps +PCT isn't worth it IMO. But non oral anabolics with proper knowledge is another story.

bert45 · Jul 9, 2014

I Started at 20 with halodrol then did mass tabs and epistane im 27 now. And I know what you mean keeping gains is hard no matter what people say serm or no serm your body will always balance itself back to where you started unless you stay on and do that blast and cruise routine. That's why im really just taking dhea based compounds such as epiandro 4 dhea 1 dhea , the gains are slower but waay easier to keep as shutdown is not hard at all

bert45 · Jul 9, 2014

Your natty stack is nice I would recommend some x gels.

ericool007 · Jul 9, 2014

They really aren't worth it honestly ive run only a few compounds (hdrol,mecha,epi), and i feel id be at the same point had i never used them without the side effects, (shutdown, acne,anxiety, hair shed) Not worth it im not one to ever inject anything and Ph's seem to be a waste. And ive used proper pct serm and all i spared no expense on cycle and PCT but could never seem to get it right only delay the fluctuation it seemed.

I learned its time to take a step back, reexamine my training diet and supps.

xR1pp3Rx · Jul 10, 2014

if your not taking away some muscle every time you cycle then you are doing it wrong.. I think people just assume they should keep 15lbs from every cycle..
it just doesn't work like that.. after all is said an done.. if you keep 3-5 lbs each cycle then your doing it right. even with injectables.. you still have to work to keep the muscle. you cant just quit a cycle and expect all the glucose to stick around keeping you swole.

mtinsideout · Jul 10, 2014

I had some pretty nasty sides after my last cycle that scared me pretty good... All sides have since cleared up but it certainly made me question whether or not it is worth the trouble to do a cycle. I'm 29 now so I may just hang out and do things natty until I'm 35, then look into HRT (if needed).

bert45 · Jul 10, 2014

xR1pp3Rx said:
if your not taking away some muscle every time you cycle then you are doing it wrong.. I think people just assume they should keep 15lbs from every cycle..
it just doesn't work like that.. after all is said an done.. if you keep 3-5 lbs each cycle then your doing it right. even with injectables.. you still have to work to keep the muscle. you cant just quit a cycle and expect all the glucose to stick around keeping you swole.

I hear ya, but your body will still balance itself back to its normal weight once off the steroids or prohormones, only way to really retain gains is to stay on for good. Look at most body builders shrink once they come off

mountainman33 · Jul 10, 2014

mtinsideout said:
I may just hang out and do things natty until I'm 35, then look into HRT (if needed).

Hey! I'm 35! What are you trying to say?

I just tripped over my walker by the way. :lick:

mtinsideout · Jul 10, 2014

mountainman33 said:
Hey! I'm 35! What are you trying to say?

I just tripped over my walker by the way. :lick:

Haha didn't mean to say 35 is old but it is a time when I'd want to get a full check up and some blood work done to make sure all is well lol.

xR1pp3Rx · Jul 10, 2014

bert45 said:
I hear ya, but your body will still balance itself back to its normal weight once off the steroids or prohormones, only way to really retain gains is to stay on for good. Look at most body builders shrink once they come off

not the ones who continue to train and eat well. look at coleman.. he used to weigh 315 while jooced to the gills.. now he weighs 270. im going out on a limb here.. but I remember when that dude looked like he weighed 205 and claimed natty, so just saying.. about 70 lbs of muscle hes managed to keep.
and there are plenty more I could site. including my self.. as long as you keep up the menu and the gym time, you can keep a lot more mass than your trying to espouse. im not picking a fight here either, but it seems to me like there is this new meta that says you cant keep mass from PHs.. yet most of these things are more like anadrol and dbol than you know. infact theres guys out there who eat noting more than 35 mgs of dbol a day 2-3 times a yr and are massive. again, this stigma that you cant take orals and keep some of the gains is preposterous imo

Young Gotti · Jul 10, 2014

i told myself about 2 years ago that when i hit 30 i wouldn't touch hormonal products anymore, i'm almost 30 and i'm done, they can be fun to run and get some great results but the length of cycles make it dificult to keep a lot of the gains....even when a pct is set up or even overdone the results aren't worth the money spent

now i'm an old man so better ph's may come out to make things easier but until then my closest will be stashed with protein, creatine, compete, bcaa's, and the occasional test booster or fat burner

mountainman33 · Jul 10, 2014

mtinsideout said:
Haha didn't mean to say 35 is old but it is a time when I'd want to get a full check up and some blood work done to make sure all is well lol.

Yeah, that's not a bad idea.

snagencyV2.0 · Jul 10, 2014

xR1pp3Rx said:
if your not taking away some muscle every time you cycle then you are doing it wrong.. I think people just assume they should keep 15lbs from every cycle..
it just doesn't work like that.. after all is said an done.. if you keep 3-5 lbs each cycle then your doing it right. even with injectables.. you still have to work to keep the muscle. you cant just quit a cycle and expect all the glucose to stick around keeping you swole.

exactly
and the problem with youth doing these hormonal products (aside from the obvious long-term ramifications of messing up long-term production and compromising HPTA function), is they have no clue how to solidify these gains, nor understand what you are even trying to say here...

it's all about more more more gotta be on on on.....ridiculous, and one of many reasons why anyone so young should abstain form these items - the great majority are simply so clueless, hell they need to learn about life yet let alone the finite intricacies of steady building of their physical attributes

bert45 said:
I hear ya, but your body will still balance itself back to its normal weight once off the steroids or prohormones, only way to really retain gains is to stay on for good. Look at most body builders shrink once they come off

you are bastardizing the whole idea of homeostasis, with something it really does not apply to...also pretty big generalizations going on here, and one really needs to stick to specifics to keep apples & oranges discussion from evolving

there will come a point yes (picture pro bb'ers) where you simply will not gain and in fact will lose muscle, if you stop using hormonal aids, that is fact...but are you really trying to group a pro bb'er into same discussion with young & not fully developed 20-something y/o? again, apples & oranges...ripper answers you well

snagencyV2.0 · Jul 10, 2014

Young Gotti said:
i told myself about 2 years ago that when i hit 30 i wouldn't touch hormonal products anymore

i think you had it backwards all along man..
30 is when you SHOULD start messing with these thing, NOT before..
hormonal output will start to regress, on average, at age 30 or so

to put it in perspective, i did not start experimenting till i was mid-30s, and did not use regularly until couple yrs ago....just this yr i graduated to real gear

all of this was an intentional, fairly educated, step by step process, in order to wring out everything i had in natural realm

xR1pp3Rx · Jul 10, 2014

snagencyV2.0 said:
i think you had it backwards all along man..
30 is when you SHOULD start messing with these thing, NOT before..
hormonal output will start to regress, on average, at age 30 or so

to put it in perspective, i did not start experimenting till i was mid-30s, and did not use regularly until couple yrs ago....just this yr i graduated to real gear

all of this was an intentional, fairly educated, step by step process, in order to wring out everything i had in natural realm

very well ran history right here. baby steps, as needed and only after you have established a very solid foundation to build upon. this is not only imo the best approach to hormonal manipulation I also think its the healthiest approach.

snags had a better physique before he started using than most guys end up with. hard work pays off no matter what route you end up taking.. jooced or not.

Young Gotti · Jul 10, 2014

snagencyV2.0 said:
i think you had it backwards all along man..
30 is when you SHOULD start messing with these thing, NOT before..
hormonal output will start to regress, on average, at age 30 or so

to put it in perspective, i did not start experimenting till i was mid-30s, and did not use regularly until couple yrs ago....just this yr i graduated to real gear

all of this was an intentional, fairly educated, step by step process, in order to wring out everything i had in natural realm

dang man why? by age 30 we're all done for, i'm turning 30 in a month and it's depressing, life is over...going to quit the gym eat buger king all day and sit on my front porch yelling at kids for riding on my grass

i know what your saying but my train of thought was, do this stuff now. stop at a decent age and move towards more health related supplements like joint help and all of that stuff....funny because it's all the stuff i always took but more of a focus on that kind of stuff

you know what they say 30 is the new 60

mtinsideout · Jul 10, 2014

Young Gotti said:
dang man why? by age 30 we're all done for, i'm turning 30 in a month and it's depressing, life is over...going to quit the gym eat buger king all day and sit on my front porch yelling at kids for riding on my grass

i know what your saying but my train of thought was, do this stuff now. stop at a decent age and move towards more health related supplements like joint help and all of that stuff....funny because it's all the stuff i always took but more of a focus on that kind of stuff

you know what they say 30 is the new 60

Lol your gonna give up over a number?? If you can still hit the gym, I say do it and show those young bastards who's boss as long as you can.

Young Gotti · Jul 10, 2014

mtinsideout said:
Lol your gonna give up over a number?? If you can still hit the gym, I say do it and show those young bastards who's boss as long as you can.

yeah i'm done for...can't risk a hip injury, once the hips go, it's all downhill from there

snagencyV2.0 · Jul 10, 2014

Young Gotti said:
dang man why? by age 30 we're all done for

:hitwithrock: blasphemy...you must think i reside in nursing home then, since i am 42

i'm turning 30 in a month and it's depressing, life is over...

in all seriousness - i too went thru depression when i was about to turn 30...I've talked to other guys too, my age now (and older), who said they went thru same thing...i mean i had full head of hair, was still concerned with going bald, thought I'd try out rogaine (it promptly burnt my scalp as i found i was one of the 2% of the population who was allergic to it)..i guess it's just typical for a lot of guys, we sense our life is over (morons we are, because we're not even halfway thru life yet, truth be told..)
but by 32, hell i was long past it and deciding to jump on stages and compete..whole new perspective on life

i know what your saying but my train of thought was, do this stuff now. stop at a decent age and move towards more health related supplements like joint help and all of that stuff....funny because it's all the stuff i always took but more of a focus on that kind of stuff

i mean intellectually:
does it make more sense to supplement with exogenous test when your own production is fine and in higher ranges of what it will be in your lifetime?
or - does it make more sense to supplement those levels when they are in decline, and begin to hold you back form what you have always done, lag in recovery, sleep gets poor, energy declines, etc etc....
i mean to each their own, but the latter always made perfect sense to me

you know what they say 30 is the new 60

okay now i know you been clowning on me lol..
either that, or you just like looking at things backwards, just like the hormonal aspect...

Young Gotti · Jul 10, 2014

snagencyV2.0 said:
:hitwithrock: blasphemy...you must think i reside in nursing home then, since i am 42
in all seriousness - i too went thru depression when i was about to turn 30...I've talked to other guys too, my age now (and older), who said they went thru same thing...i mean i had full head of hair, was still concerned with going bald, thought I'd try out rogaine (it promptly burnt my scalp as i found i was one of the 2% of the population who was allergic to it)..i guess it's just typical for a lot of guys, we sense our life is over (morons we are, because we're not even halfway thru life yet, truth be told..)
but by 32, hell i was long past it and deciding to jump on stages and compete..whole new perspective on life
i mean intellectually:
does it make more sense to supplement with exogenous test when your own production is fine and in higher ranges of what it will be in your lifetime?
or - does it make more sense to supplement those levels when they are in decline, and begin to hold you back form what you have always done, lag in recovery, sleep gets poor, energy declines, etc etc....
i mean to each their own, but the latter always made perfect sense to me

okay now i know you been clowning on me lol..
either that, or you just like looking at things backwards, just like the hormonal aspect...

42 hmmm...are you in the same nursing home at thebigt? and don't forget to sign up for social security

cbsharpe · Jul 10, 2014

snagencyV2.0 said:
i think you had it backwards all along man..
30 is when you SHOULD start messing with these thing, NOT before..
hormonal output will start to regress, on average, at age 30 or so

to put it in perspective, i did not start experimenting till i was mid-30s, and did not use regularly until couple yrs ago....just this yr i graduated to real gear

all of this was an intentional, fairly educated, step by step process, in order to wring out everything i had in natural realm

Sounds like me a certain point. I just started dabbling into mild PH's and I'm 42 about to turn 43 in August. Haven't stepped up to real gear but don't really plan to unless something changes.

snagencyV2.0 · Jul 10, 2014

Young Gotti said:
42 hmmm...are you in the same nursing home at thebigt? and don't forget to sign up for social security

i enjoy my 5 cent coffee at Denny's, and every Wednesday at my grocer it's senior day so i get 5% off my bill
hey you gotta work the perks dammit

joemoney1rock · Jul 10, 2014

Do you guys think all the gains will be lost always ? Obviously being off will drop the strength etc. kinda crappy to run stuff gain 10 then keep 7 to lose them regardless. Why do it ever then no ?

NattyForLife · Jul 10, 2014

snagencyV2.0 said:
i enjoy my 5 cent coffee at Denny's, and every Wednesday at my grocer it's senior day so i get 5% off my bill hey you gotta work the perks dammit

Biggest guy at my gym is in his 50s! That says something!

snagencyV2.0 · Jul 10, 2014

NattyForLife said:
Biggest guy at my gym is in his 50s! That says something!

muscle maturity...you cannot imitate it, you can only hope to one day achieve it

T-Bone · Jul 10, 2014

xR1pp3Rx said:
not the ones who continue to train and eat well. look at coleman.. he used to weigh 315 while jooced to the gills.. now he weighs 270. im going out on a limb here.. but I remember when that dude looked like he weighed 205 and claimed natty, so just saying.. about 70 lbs of muscle hes managed to keep.
and there are plenty more I could site. including my self.. as long as you keep up the menu and the gym time, you can keep a lot more mass than your trying to espouse. im not picking a fight here either, but it seems to me like there is this new meta that says you cant keep mass from PHs.. yet most of these things are more like anadrol and dbol than you know. infact theres guys out there who eat noting more than 35 mgs of dbol a day 2-3 times a yr and are massive. again, this stigma that you cant take orals and keep some of the gains is preposterous imo

If people kept the majority of the muscle gained while using AAS than they wouldn't have to keep going back on. The more cycles done, the less likely you are to recover you natural endocrine function...Less "recovery" = less gains kept and the "cycles" continue.

bert45 · Jul 10, 2014

xR1pp3Rx said:
not the ones who continue to train and eat well. look at coleman.. he used to weigh 315 while jooced to the gills.. now he weighs 270. im going out on a limb here.. but I remember when that dude looked like he weighed 205 and claimed natty, so just saying.. about 70 lbs of muscle hes managed to keep.
and there are plenty more I could site. including my self.. as long as you keep up the menu and the gym time, you can keep a lot more mass than your trying to espouse. im not picking a fight here either, but it seems to me like there is this new meta that says you cant keep mass from PHs.. yet most of these things are more like anadrol and dbol than you know. infact theres guys out there who eat noting more than 35 mgs of dbol a day 2-3 times a yr and are massive. again, this stigma that you cant take orals and keep some of the gains is preposterous imo

Pretty sure coleman is still on something like TRT HRT surely he is not juiced to the gills anymore but im sure he is still on

emantest · Jul 10, 2014

Young Gotti said:
yeah i'm done for...can't risk a hip injury, once the hips go, it's all downhill from there

Sounds like you got some I'm turning 30 blues which may be an indicator of something hormonal. Get your labs done your e2 maybe up which would make you more likely to break that hip after standing from your geriatric potty chair.
I've been on trt for 3+ years and the gains have been constant while cruising and especially on blast.

snagencyV2.0 · Jul 10, 2014

joemoney1rock said:
Do you guys think all the gains will be lost always ? Obviously being off will drop the strength etc. kinda crappy to run stuff gain 10 then keep 7 to lose them regardless. Why do it ever then no ?

it's part of the process...no you cannot keep 100% of what you gained, it just does not work like that...trick is tho, to learn how to maximize the most you can keep, while solidifying that amount for future endeavors..
and then rinse/repeat

T-Bone said:
If people kept the majority of the muscle gained while using AAS than they wouldn't have to keep going back on. The more cycles done, the less likely you are to recover you natural endocrine function...Less "recovery" = less gains kept and the "cycles" continue.

true to a certain point, again it's all in the philosophy employed...ebb & flow gains with each cycle accrued makes sense - as I keep saying and ripper too I believe: it's what you do after the cycle, and in between until the next cycle, that will dictate how efficient you are at maximizing the whole gains concept and indeed enhancing the value of the cycles to begin with
(this of course in the realm of cycle/pct, rather than on-cycle all the time blast & cruise protocol)

joemoney1rock · Jul 10, 2014

snagencyV2.0 said:
it's part of the process...no you cannot keep 100% of what you gained, it just does not work like that...trick is tho, to learn how to maximize the most you can keep, while solidifying that amount for future endeavors..
and then rinse/repeat

I hear you and like I said lets say you gain 10-15 and you keep 7 after pct and what not, will you in fact keep those 7 for good or do you think you'll lose those also? I'd like to run something knowing I'd keep a nice little chunk of it..

snagencyV2.0 · Jul 10, 2014

joemoney1rock said:
I hear you and like I said lets say you gain 10-15 and you keep 7 after pct and what not, will you in fact keep those 7 for good or do you think you'll lose those also? I'd like to run something knowing I'd keep a nice little chunk of it..

I think so, yes - provided of course, you are still training intensely, consistently, intelligently (by this I mean knowing when to rest for recovery, as this is going to come into play more than when you are hormonally enhanced)...while concurrently having a very firm understanding and knowledge of nutrition so you are structuring intake properly for growth & sustenance, not trying to cut all the time, or chop out carbs because you may be holding eater time to time, etc etc

it takes work man - you are not just going to accumulate fresh new muscle, and have it stick on you of it's own accord like gum to a wall ..

bert45 · Jul 10, 2014

Well the average age people use phs gear is around 20years old remember arnold 14? Idc what age you are same **** applies once off our bodies will always balance back to its normal stage and also im sure bodybuilders who started juicing early were.not fully developed truth of the matter is biggest consumers of these products are 20-27 year olds -just reality. That is why many people stay on gear and follow blast and cruise and thats also why young 20 year olds do so many cycles apples oranges still fruits.

bert45 · Jul 10, 2014

snagencyV2.0 said:
exactly
and the problem with youth doing these hormonal products (aside from the obvious long-term ramifications of messing up long-term production and compromising HPTA function), is they have no clue how to solidify these gains, nor understand what you are even trying to say here...

it's all about more more more gotta be on on on.....ridiculous, and one of many reasons why anyone so young should abstain form these items - the great majority are simply so clueless, hell they need to learn about life yet let alone the finite intricacies of steady building of their physical attributes

you are bastardizing the whole idea of homeostasis, with something it really does not apply to...also pretty big generalizations going on here, and one really needs to stick to specifics to keep apples & oranges discussion from evolving

there will come a point yes (picture pro bb'ers) where you simply will not gain and in fact will lose muscle, if you stop using hormonal aids, that is fact...but are you really trying to group a pro bb'er into same discussion with young & not fully developed 20-something y/o? again, apples & oranges...ripper answers you well

Well the average age people use phs gear is around 20years old remember arnold 14? Idc what age you are same **** applies once off our bodies will always balance back to its normal stage and also im sure bodybuilders who started juicing early were.not fully developed truth of the matter is biggest consumers of these products are 20-27 year olds -just reality. That is why many people stay on gear and follow blast and cruise and thats also why young 20 year olds do so many cycles apples oranges still fruits.

snagencyV2.0 · Jul 10, 2014

bert45 said:
Well the average age people use phs gear is around 20years old

look friend, I don't want to argue with you - but if you really think that, you are quite misinformed
yse there are too many at that age who are messing with these things...but "average age of user"?? no sir

remember arnold 14?

lqtm
you pick the biggest apple/orange comparison in existence, oh my
are you really comparing genetic freak arnold, who was surrounded by professional guidance, and his AAS injectable forays (on gear for life/no "cycles") and exquisite dietary & nutrition guidance, to the half-ass non-educated youth who have no clue what they are doing, eat at mickey d's or wherever they want (IF they are eating regularly at all) and are using some of these methylated compounds in a pill -- that, quite honestly while still steroids or steroidal compounds, are not even comparable to injectables; not to mention their half-assed PCTs that many times are only OTC products and nothing that will aid in HPTA recovery?

you lost me, I do not even know what we are talking about anymore, tbh....

bert45 · Jul 10, 2014

snagencyV2.0 said:
look friend, I don't want to argue with you - but if you really think that, you are quite misinformed
yse there are too many at that age who are messing with these things...but "average age of user"?? no sir

lqtm
you pick the biggest apple/orange comparison in existence, oh my
are you really comparing genetic freak arnold, who was surrounded by professional guidance, and his AAS injectable forays (on gear for life/no "cycles") and exquisite dietary & nutrition guidance, to the half-ass non-educated youth who have no clue what they are doing, eat at mickey d's or wherever they want (IF they are eating regularly at all) and are using some of these methylated compounds in a pill -- that, quite honestly while still steroids or steroidal compounds, are not even comparable to injectables; not to mention their half-assed PCTs that many times are only OTC products and nothing that will aid in HPTA recovery?

you lost me, I do not even know what we are talking about anymore, tbh....

Should pay better attention then my friend. Your saying he was a genetic freak but he was not @ 14 . And your saying all 20 year old take phs skip pct n pig out on mickey ds? You my amigo are misinformed. Oral phs arent comparable to injectables? in what term? If you say safer that is user dependent if you say strength wise then your wrong. And yes even the genetic freaks lose gains off cycle. He was a gentic freak on roids and guidance and he looks like **** now off anabolics.

Young Gotti · Jul 10, 2014

emantest said:
Sounds like you got some I'm turning 30 blues which may be an indicator of something hormonal. Get your labs done your e2 maybe up which would make you more likely to break that hip after standing from your geriatric potty chair.
I've been on trt for 3+ years and the gains have been constant while cruising and especially on blast.

not sure if your joking

but i was...sort of, at 30 i won't be going to sketchy parties and all of that, even though i haven't really in years, that sort of thing needs to get cut out....but i'm still going to go hard in the gym

snagencyV2.0 · Jul 10, 2014

bert45 said:
Should pay better attention then my friend. Your saying he was a genetic freak but he was not @ 14 . And your saying all 20 year old take phs skip pct n pig out on mickey ds? You my amigo are misinformed. Oral phs arent comparable to injectables? in what term? If you say safer that is user dependent if you say strength wise then your wrong. And yes even the genetic freaks lose gains off cycle. He was a gentic freak on roids and guidance and he looks like **** now off anabolics.

bert - I will not argue with you, and you are quite erroneous in your conclusions

Arnold at 14 was a genetic freak indeed - hell he was a genetic freak at birth, if you want to be quite literal about it
you do not all the sudden become genetic freak at oh say age 27, 28....that is why it is called "GENETICS"

and I generalize on the misuse of PH/poor pct structure by 20y/o and youth in general, but yes fact is majority (yes I said MAJORITY) of kids at that age have no clue what they are doing, and short themselves on necessity things like proper PCT based on 1) lack $$ available to them and 2) lack of know-how on where to get these things, as they are not available on the shelf at your local GNC buddy...

lastly: I will not even bother to list the ways that PHs (read: prohormones, which means "needs to convert in the body via some chemical action; not an active steroid in its own right) differs from a fully active injectable steroid, or even a DS pill for that matter...

as for Arnold looking like sh1t now that he is off them -- WOW you are more clueless than I thought...the man is 60 something yrs old, been thru multiple heart attacks (including a quadruple bypass if I am not mistaken), given up lifting due to the fact he has broken down (hmmm wonder if it is from all that steroid use AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE????), and here you sit saying some nonsense like that?

seriously, I have nothing further to say to you about this topic bud, you are in way over your head...I hope you get enlightened somewhere along the way
best to you, take care

Young Gotti · Jul 10, 2014

snagencyV2.0 said:
bert - I will not argue with you, and you are quite erroneous in your conclusions

Arnold at 14 was a genetic freak indeed - hell he was a genetic freak at birth, if you want to be quite literal about it
you do not all the sudden become genetic freak at oh say age 27, 28....that is why it is called "GENETICS"

and I generalize on the misuse of PH/poor pct structure by 20y/o and youth in general, but yes fact is majority (yes I said MAJORITY) of kids at that age have no clue what they are doing, and short themselves on necessity things like proper PCT based on 1) lack $$ available to them and 2) lack of know-how on where to get these things, as they are not available on the shelf at your local GNC buddy...

lastly: I will not even bother to list the ways that PHs (read: prohormones, which means "needs to convert in the body via some chemical action; not an active steroid in its own right) differs from a fully active injectable steroid, or even a DS pill for that matter...

as for Arnold looking like sh1t now that he is off them -- WOW you are more clueless than I thought...the man is 60 something yrs old, been thru multiple heart attacks (including a quadruple bypass if I am not mistaken), given up lifting due to the fact he has broken down (hmmm wonder if it is from all that steroid use AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE????), and here you sit saying some nonsense like that?

seriously, I have nothing further to say to you about this topic bud, you are in way over your head...I hope you get enlightened somewhere along the way
best to you, take care

correction: arnold is not broken down from the juice and lifting....it was his bad acting that is causing all of this

xR1pp3Rx · Jul 10, 2014

bert45 said:
Pretty sure coleman is still on something like TRT HRT surely he is not juiced to the gills anymore but im sure he is still on

trt means nothing.. that says hes just a normal guy like me or snags.. as in normal range test levels got it?

snagencyV2.0 said:
it's part of the process...no you cannot keep 100% of what you gained, it just does not work like that...trick is tho, to learn how to maximize the most you can keep, while solidifying that amount for future endeavors..
and then rinse/repeat

true to a certain point, again it's all in the philosophy employed...ebb & flow gains with each cycle accrued makes sense - as I keep saying and ripper too I believe: it's what you do after the cycle, and in between until the next cycle, that will dictate how efficient you are at maximizing the whole gains concept and indeed enhancing the value of the cycles to begin with
(this of course in the realm of cycle/pct, rather than on-cycle all the time blast & cruise protocol)