More evidence that Blend > Whey (Protein Isolate) alone

[mr.cooper69]

Nice article on suppversity:

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/06/protein-blends-not-isolates-promote.html


Here's the study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24699854


Of note, it's conducted in a very reputable journal and actually follows legitimate methodology (unlike many supplement studies). It was conducted by the University of Texas Medical Branch which is quite esteemed as well.


Abstract


Increasing amino acid availability (via infusion or ingestion) at rest or postexercise enhances amino acid transport into human skeletal muscle. It is unknown whether alterations in amino acid availability, from ingesting different dietary proteins, can enhance amino acid transport rates and amino acid transporter (AAT) mRNA expression. We hypothesized that the prolonged hyperaminoacidemia from ingesting a blend of proteins with different digestion rates postexercise would enhance amino acid transport into muscle and AAT expression compared with the ingestion of a rapidly digested protein. In a double-blind, randomized clinical trial, we studied 16 young adults at rest and after acute resistance exercise coupled with postexercise (1 h) ingestion of either a (soy-dairy) protein blend or whey protein. Phenylalanine net balance and transport rate into skeletal muscle were measured using stable isotopic methods in combination with femoral arteriovenous blood sampling and muscle biopsies obtained at rest and 3 and 5 h postexercise. Phenylalanine transport into muscle and mRNA expression of select AATs [system L amino acid transporter 1/solute-linked carrier (SLC) 7A5, CD98/SLC3A2, system A amino acid transporter 2/SLC38A2, proton-assisted amino acid transporter 1/SLC36A1, cationic amino acid transporter 1/SLC7A1] increased to a similar extent in both groups (P < 0.05). However, the ingestion of the protein blend resulted in a prolonged and positive net phenylalanine balance during postexercise recovery compared with whey protein (P < 0.05). Postexercise myofibrillar protein synthesis increased similarly between groups. We conclude that, while both protein sources enhanced postexercise AAT expression, transport into muscle, and myofibrillar protein synthesis, postexercise ingestion of a protein blend results in a slightly prolonged net amino acid balance across the leg compared with whey protein.

 

[ma70]

Good stuff. I like blends better anyway. Whey alone is too "thin" and feels less satiating.

 

[The Solution]

+1 for select.

 

[Wilsy7]

What's some of the top blends out there? Select aside.

 

[ma70]

OEProtein is pretty good taste/profile wise

 

[Joshlm69]

Dymatise gourmet elite, anyone tried?

 

[jamesm11]

Dymatise gourmet elite, anyone tried?

I like it, same with Trutein. Good flavored blends.

 

[bdcc]

What's some of the top blends out there? Select aside.

Let's just not put Select aside.

 

[Wilsy7]

Let's just not put Select aside.

I think at £30 for 2lb it needs set aside unfortunately lol

 

[The Solution]

What's some of the top blends out there? Select aside.

Oxy Elite
Pronom
XF 2.0

 

[De__eB]

I've noticed that the overwhelming majority of these 'blend' studies are soy-dairy vs. whey.

And yet almost all of the blend products people are coming out with and hyping are just milk/whey (wholly dairy), skipping the inclusion of soy.

It seems sort of manipulative to try and use studies that utilize soy in their blend to support wholly dairy protein blends.

 

[Tagger]

Im going to get in on this blend now.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I've noticed that the overwhelming majority of these 'blend' studies are soy-dairy vs. whey.And yet almost all of the blend products people are coming out with and hyping are just milk/whey (wholly dairy), skipping the inclusion of soy.It seems sort of manipulative to try and use studies that utilize soy in their blend to support wholly dairy protein blends.

Deeb, I think you understand enough about physiology to gather that the benefit is via delivery kinetics, not because soy protein contains superior amino acids or magical phytoestrogens. I'd expect that from someone who can't read between the lines and takes studies at explicit face value.Anyway, my previous thread on this topic was whey + casein vs whey, which you can probably dig up in a forum search

 

[De__eB]

Deeb, I think you understand enough about physiology to gather that the benefit is via delivery kinetics, not because soy protein contains superior amino acids or magical phytoestrogens. I'd expect that from someone who can't read between the lines and takes studies at explicit face value.Anyway, my previous thread on this topic was whey + casein vs whey, which you can probably dig up in a forum search

Obviously I don't think it's because of some magical phytoestrogens or amino acid content.

But, like I said, a bunch of these studies have been on blends that include soy, surely there's a reason for that? Any ideas on what it might be?

Is a soy casein whey blend going to outperform a casein whey blend?Is there any particular reason to go with a premium casein/whey/leucine blend as opposed to a $8/lb bargain milk/whey/casein/soy/egg/bcaa blend?

You already know I'm in the meat and bargain protein camp as far was that protein supplements to buy. I just can't see a convincing reason (at least in my personal use case) to pay for premium products over cheap products from still reputable brands.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Obviously I don't think it's because of some magical phytoestrogens or amino acid content.

But, like I said, a bunch of these studies have been on blends that include soy, surely there's a reason for that? Any ideas on what it might be?

Is a soy casein whey blend going to outperform a casein whey blend?Is there any particular reason to go with a premium casein/whey/leucine blend as opposed to a $8/lb bargain milk/whey/casein/soy/egg/bcaa blend?

You already know I'm in the meat and bargain protein camp as far was that protein supplements to buy. I just can't see a convincing reason (at least in my personal use case) to pay for premium products over cheap products from still reputable brands.

They use soy because it tends to have greater clinical relevance than casein, which is rarely given to anyone with any sort of medical condition. Whey and soy are used much more frequently.

I think you're actually flipping the message of this thread though. The message is that you should not spend extra on the purported greatness of whey isolates, when cheaper blends provide much more benefit. That's all. Is select a blend? Yes. Do I support it? Of course. But the reason I posted this thread is because I still see people on this forum thinking whey protein isolate is the "highest quality" protein they can get, when that is in fact not true.

 

[De__eB]

They use soy because it tends to have greater clinical relevance than casein, which is rarely given to anyone with any sort of medical condition. Whey and soy are used much more frequently. I think you're actually flipping the message of this thread though. The message is that you should not spend extra on the purported greatness of whey isolates, when cheaper blends provide much more benefit. That's all. Is select a blend? Yes. Do I support it? Of course. But the reason I posted this thread is because I still see people on this forum thinking whey protein isolate is the "highest quality" protein they can get, when that is in fact not true.

Wait, anybody but that one iforce rep actually thinks isolates are the best quality protein they can get?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Wait, anybody but that one iforce rep actually thinks isolates are the best quality protein they can get?

Minion bro, get it right .

But yeah, there was another thread where non-affiliated members felt that way. Plus I think it's just the overall perception that advertising has pushed onto the mass market

 

[Afi140]

Minion bro, get it right . But yeah, there was another thread where non-affiliated members felt that way. Plus I think it's just the overall perception that advertising has pushed onto the mass market

Agreed. My dad still wants to waste money on Isopure at ridiculous prices. Isolate with filler blends. Lovely lol. He also still likes arginine. He's old school though and no internet usage for him haha

 

[De__eB]

Agreed. My dad still wants to waste money on Isopure at ridiculous prices. Isolate with filler blends. Lovely lol. He also still likes arginine. He's old school though and no internet usage for him haha

Well, isolates do work pretty well for some of the RTD drinks that Isopure makes, some of those taste pretty awesome. So to a certain audience, that is appealing.

 

[Joshlm69]

Are there any other blends with PepForm LEUCINE PEPTIDES in, like PES select?

 

[snagencyV2.0]

I've noticed that the overwhelming majority of these 'blend' studies are soy-dairy vs. whey.

And yet almost all of the blend products people are coming out with and hyping are just milk/whey (wholly dairy), skipping the inclusion of soy.

It seems sort of manipulative to try and use studies that utilize soy in their blend to support wholly dairy protein blends.

agreed with this point

i think it's well known i would rather have real food vs protein powder any time, but even in just pondering these studies, i have a hard time wrapping my head around ANY study that would seem to decipher soy as having benefits superior to any whey isolate in existence, no matter what the area of focus is...

guess I'm just old-school and funny that way :dunno:

 

[AntM1564]

I think I know the answer to this question, but thought I would ask it.

If I take X amount of whey and combine it with a serving of Greek Yogurt, Milk, or anything with Casein, would it have the same benefit as a protein powder blend of whey and casein?

 

[mr.cooper69]

I think I know the answer to this question, but thought I would ask it.

If I take X amount of whey and combine it with a serving of Greek Yogurt, Milk, or anything with Casein, would it have the same benefit as a protein powder blend of whey and casein?

Yep

 

[Spaniard]

Nice article on suppversity: http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/06/protein-blends-not-isolates-promote.html Here's the study:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24699854Of

Anyone else come up with "page not found" on both pubmed and suppV?

Good find, Cyrus. Thanks for sharing

 

[mikespe]

They use soy because it tends to have greater clinical relevance than casein, which is rarely given to anyone with any sort of medical condition. Whey and soy are used much more frequently.

I think you're actually flipping the message of this thread though. The message is that you should not spend extra on the purported greatness of whey isolates, when cheaper blends provide much more benefit. That's all. Is select a blend? Yes. Do I support it? Of course. But the reason I posted this thread is because I still see people on this forum thinking whey protein isolate is the "highest quality" protein they can get, when that is in fact not true.

Coop...I know some of us use isolate over blends or whey because of lactose intolerance. However I have found that Select doesn't bother my & I will be trying OEP later this week. But if your gut is really sensitive then isolates are all you got....and I have read some of the lesser quality isolates can wreak havoc on some people.

 

[Auslifter]

Yep

probably a dumb question lol,

just had me thinking dose there need to be a magic ratio or anything with this? say if you had 2 scoops of whey then 1 scoop casein, would that effect the length of MPS or if you had and even amount, 1.5 scoop whey 1.5 scoop casein, (i.e sustain mps longer than the other mix of more whey)

 

[The Solution]

I think I know the answer to this question, but thought I would ask it.

If I take X amount of whey and combine it with a serving of Greek Yogurt, Milk, or anything with Casein, would it have the same benefit as a protein powder blend of whey and casein?

why i always mix my protein with yogurt. Sludge/Protein pudding FTW

 

[Sterling Arch]

I still will not use anything with whey concentrate in it. Whey isolate and casein mixed I'm gtg...but add low quality whey concentrate to it and I'm out.

 

[jimbuick]

I still will not use anything with whey concentrate in it. Whey isolate and casein mixed I'm gtg...but add low quality whey concentrate to it and I'm out.

Why do you instantly believe concentrate to be lower quality?

 

[mr.cooper69]

I still will not use anything with whey concentrate in it. Whey isolate and casein mixed I'm gtg...but add low quality whey concentrate to it and I'm out.

Well, this was the point of this post. You should read the whole study and educate yourself. Unless you are lactose intolerant, whey protein concentrate is actually superior to WPI in many respects, including intact growth factors.

 

[Joshlm69]

My house mate is very lactose intolerant, having a normal whey shake or chocolate bar has him on the toilet for hours.

PES select doesn't affect him in any way

 

[mr.cooper69]

My house mate is very lactose intolerant, having a normal whey shake or chocolate bar has him on the toilet for hours.PES select doesn't affect him in any way

Yeah that's because the MPI, which is the bulk of the blend, cuts out the lactose. Less than 1 gram per serving

 

[The Solution]

Both your links dont work cooper.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Yeah Idk, I've tried it every which way and nothing seems to make it work. Just copy and paste the URLs I guess

 

[Joshlm69]

Yeah Idk, I've tried it every which way and nothing seems to make it work. Just copy and paste the URLs I guess

Blends just taste so damn good.

Is there much difference between truetin and PES select? Is the leucine peptides that significant to gains?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Blends just taste so damn good. Is there much difference between truetin and PES select? Is the leucine peptides that significant to gains?

The short answer is that you probably won't notice a difference, but in certain scenarios (i.e. cutting deeply), every bit counts.Why I think Select is superior to trutein (taste aside) is that we do not use egg protein. Egg protein, in powdered form, has improved bioavailability over raw eggs but it is still not on par with cooked eggs. I'd take MPI over that any day

 

[Joshlm69]

The short answer is that you probably won't notice a difference, but in certain scenarios (i.e. cutting deeply), every bit counts.Why I think Select is superior to trutein (taste aside) is that we do not use egg protein. Egg protein, in powdered form, has improved bioavailability over raw eggs but it is still not on par with cooked eggs. I'd take MPI over that any day

Thank you for the explanation, exactly what I was looking for. I don't mind paying the extra $5 for PES, and will use truetin when PES is out of stock.

Just a shame for us UK buyers a 800g tub of PES is $55. Praying PES do another insider deal so I can bulk order 20 of them with cheap international shipping

 

[De__eB]

The short answer is that you probably won't notice a difference, but in certain scenarios (i.e. cutting deeply), every bit counts.Why I think Select is superior to trutein (taste aside) is that we do not use egg protein. Egg protein, in powdered form, has improved bioavailability over raw eggs but it is still not on par with cooked eggs. I'd take MPI over that any day

You'd take MPI over egg protein powder, or MPI over eggs

 

[mr.cooper69]

You'd take MPI over egg protein powder, or MPI over eggs

Nothing gets taken over eggs...NOTHING

 

[schizm]

Nothing gets taken over eggs...NOTHING

You prefer over easy, sunny side up or scrambled? De_eb asked me to ask you...

 

[De__eB]

You prefer over easy, sunny side up or scrambled? De_eb asked me to ask you...

If your eggs aren't over easy, you're probably objectively doing it wrong, for no reason other than that I like my eggs over easy.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

new studies show over easy is superior in bioavailability to sunny side up, but scrambled may induce more protein synthesis over long-term duration....

 

[Joshlm69]

new studies show over easy is superior in bioavailability to sunny side up, but scrambled may induce more protein synthesis over long-term duration....

this makes me happy, most times i go to make an omelette i end up making scrambled eggs, pretending that was my goal all along....

 

[De__eB]

new studies show over easy is superior in bioavailability to sunny side up, but scrambled may induce more protein synthesis over long-term duration....

But the fractional hedonism rate induced by over easy far outpaces that of scrambled.

You aren't using scrambled in finaflex eggabolic are you?

 

[snagencyV2.0]

You aren't using scrambled in finaflex eggabolic are you?

sigh
I must find out where the leak in our lab is coming from, this was supposed to be top secret stuff

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I have not read this paper but it seems to insinuate MPS was similar between the groups. I'm fairly sure there is a long list of literature showing opposition to this finding. Also the McMasters guys have stated breakdown may actually be important. So looking at net protein balance alone may not be as meaningful as breakdown and synthesis, or a high protein turnover. And then there is the refractory period. How would a blend effect the next spike in MPS.

Is any of this discussed in the paper for those who have read it? I don't wanna read it #lazyday

 

[schizm]

If your eggs aren't over easy, you're probably objectively doing it wrong, for no reason other than that I like my eggs over easy.

I'm not so keen on having runny eggs...Which I reckon is hindering my gainz...Vandahm it De__eB!! (Round house kick to the monitor) (carton of soy milks spills on the keyboard)

 

[Blergs]

Nice article on suppversity:

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/06/protein-blends-not-isolates-promote.html


Here's the study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24699854


Of note, it's conducted in a very reputable journal and actually follows legitimate methodology (unlike many supplement studies). It was conducted by the University of Texas Medical Branch which is quite esteemed as well.


Abstract


Increasing amino acid availability (via infusion or ingestion) at rest or postexercise enhances amino acid transport into human skeletal muscle. It is unknown whether alterations in amino acid availability, from ingesting different dietary proteins, can enhance amino acid transport rates and amino acid transporter (AAT) mRNA expression. We hypothesized that the prolonged hyperaminoacidemia from ingesting a blend of proteins with different digestion rates postexercise would enhance amino acid transport into muscle and AAT expression compared with the ingestion of a rapidly digested protein. In a double-blind, randomized clinical trial, we studied 16 young adults at rest and after acute resistance exercise coupled with postexercise (1 h) ingestion of either a (soy-dairy) protein blend or whey protein. Phenylalanine net balance and transport rate into skeletal muscle were measured using stable isotopic methods in combination with femoral arteriovenous blood sampling and muscle biopsies obtained at rest and 3 and 5 h postexercise. Phenylalanine transport into muscle and mRNA expression of select AATs [system L amino acid transporter 1/solute-linked carrier (SLC) 7A5, CD98/SLC3A2, system A amino acid transporter 2/SLC38A2, proton-assisted amino acid transporter 1/SLC36A1, cationic amino acid transporter 1/SLC7A1] increased to a similar extent in both groups (P < 0.05). However, the ingestion of the protein blend resulted in a prolonged and positive net phenylalanine balance during postexercise recovery compared with whey protein (P < 0.05). Postexercise myofibrillar protein synthesis increased similarly between groups. We conclude that, while both protein sources enhanced postexercise AAT expression, transport into muscle, and myofibrillar protein synthesis, postexercise ingestion of a protein blend results in a slightly prolonged net amino acid balance across the leg compared with whey protein.

I have seen studies showing amino acid spikes to be more effective than slower proteins. us slow at night, whey or a fast one during day n when trying to gain mass IMO

 

[Joshlm69]

I think a blend in the AM, whey pre/post workout & blend in evening would be ideal, although I'm going to stick to just 2 protein shakes a day, which will probably be post workout as I train in the AM fasted, and another one in the afternoon, and potentially a casein before bed. the morning/afternoon shakes will be blends

 

[nattydisaster]

Are there any other blends with PepForm LEUCINE PEPTIDES in, like PES select?

Not that I have seen