- 01-14-2015, 07:18 PM
I have been writing about tongkat ali long before it was popular, for some 10 years, and I do feel some responsibility for the reputation of this marvelous herb.
In the past few years, more and more distributors of dietary supplements have jumped on the tongkat ali bandwagon, and competition between distributors has become fierce.
Tongkat ali (Eurycoma longifolia Jack by its Latin, scientific name) is, of course, one of the most expensive herbals around, for a good reason. Tongkat ali roots take some 20 years to reach a stage of full potency. Because the shrub is difficult to , there is no tongkat ali plantation anywhere in the world. The tree only grows on well-drained jungle slopes, partially protected by a canopy. There may be other yet to be discovered requirements for the habitat, which explains why all attempts to grow the plant for commercial purposes have so far failed. All genuine tongkat ali is harvested in the wild.
The plant's traditional geographic distribution is in the rainforests of Southeast Asia, and it still only grows in this part of the world. It once was common in all countries of Southeast Asia, from Vietnam to Indonesia, and in all of them, it is valued, and therefore was heavily harvested, for the medicinal properties of its roots. It's unlikely indeed that wherever humans encroach on rainforests, tongkat ali shrubs will be left alone.
The only country where still now, there are areas with a natural prevalence of tongkat ali is Indonesia. Not that tongkat ali would still be common in Indonesia. But Indonesia indeed still is one of a very small number of countries with considerable stretches of virgin rainforests, and only this is where tongkat ali grows naturally. Not that the further existence of these virgin rainforests would be guaranteed. They are burned down at an alarming rate.
Indonesia smoke blankets region
Forest fires rage across Indonesia and Brazil
Entire Rainforests Set to Disappear in Next Decade
Indonesia has been under considerable international pressure not only to control the forest fires that are causing haze problems even thousands of kilometers away, but also to do more to protect the country's rainforests which are of crucial value to the global environment. And indeed, the Indonesian president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (SBY), who has previously heeded international advice on the civil war in Aceh and other topics, has indicated that the preservation of rainforests is one of his political concerns.
SBY Orders Arrest of Illegal Logging Bosses
Quite possibly, if the tongkat ali supply from Indonesia dries up because of rainforest protection measures, or if at least there are supply bottlenecks, the price for tongkat ali root and extract may still increase substantially.
Substantial price increases are also a distinct possibility because China is becoming ever richer ever faster. And no other nation on earth is as ardent a user of natural medicines as are the Chinese. In China, herbal medicine is not fringe health care; it is on par with Western medicine.
Traditional Chinese medicine
Because China is so big, whatever is in demand in China is bound to become scarce. And the rarer an ingredient used in traditional medicine, the more expensive it is bound to become. This has already happened with another Indonesia-exported natural product, the price for which (even though it is of dubious efficacy) has already skyrocketed because it is sought after in newly rich China. The talk is of bird's nests, which now fetch thousands of US dollars per kg.
Swifts and Trade
Bird nests at around 2000 US dollars per kg
Bird nests at around 3000 US dollars per kg
In comparison, tongkat ali root (not extract) still trades at less than 50 dollars per kg.
However, unlike bird's nests, tongkat ali is not suited for direct consumption. It should either be boiled as a tea, with the roots discarded, or consumed as an extract.
It is no surprise that when a rare and expensive substance, such as tongkat ali, is traded in a highly competitive market, there will be cheats. A number products sold as tongkat ali have been found spiked with bootleg pharmaceuticals. They all originated in Malaysia.
Health Canada recalls sex enhancer Libidus due to potential risks
Press release by the Chairman of the Drug Control Authority relating to traditional medicines found to contain Tadafil
Tongkat ali extract, as opposed to tongkat ali root powder, is particularly expensive (more expensive than bootleg sildenafil citrate) because the active components are present only in small quantities.
Characterization of the Water Soluble Fraction from the Root Extract of Eurycoma Longifolia
Furthermore, there is an enormous multitude of active components that all contribute to the unique testosterone-raising capability of this herbal. The best neutral scientific source for checking the active components of tongkat ali (Eurycoma longifolia Jack) is:
Global Information Hub for Integrated Medicine
While the chemical spectrum of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (tongkat ali) is well documented in the scientific literature, the scientific studies into the sexuality-enhancing and testosterone-raising effects of the roots of this plant have not been conducted with specific active components (such as eurycomanone or eurycomalactone) but with whole tongkat ali extract, that was not standardized for any single specific active ingredient.
When I say "scientific studies", then I mean studies that have been published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. I have little trust in alleged "unpublished" scientific studies that are quoted on commercial websites, selling specific brand products.
If an alleged scientific study indeed was conducted in accordance to the accepted standards of the scientific community, and if it produced stunning results, then I wonder why it wasn't published in a scientific journal. That doesn't make sense. So, if the study wasn't plainly invented, it must have been scientifically flawed.
Furthermore, neutral, genuine science would aim to study a generic chemical for its pharmaceutical value. Studies that instead use brand name extracts of an unknown competition and standardization are most probably bogus science. Apart from that, the idea of selling pharmaceuticals and dietary supplements of secret or undisclosed ingredients and standardization totally contradicts established standards of consumer protection.
On the other hand, "standardized extract" is a catch phrase that many supplement buyers associate with superior quality.
Indeed, yohimbe bark extract that is standardized for is superior to yohimbe bark extract that is not standardized for . For yohimbine is the most potent of a very limited range of active components that account for the effect of yohimbe.
Yohimbe standardized for 2 % yohimbine
Indeed, too, St. John's wort that is standardized for hypericin is superior to St. John's wort extract that is not standardized for hypericin.
St. John's wort recommended to be standardized to 0.3% hypericin
If any of the major tongkat ali extract distributing companies were to come up with an extract standardized for what indeed is or are the active components, this would be a progress. But so far, there is no clear picture which of the numerous active components listed on the above referred-to page of the Global Information Hub for Integrated Medicine is to what extend responsible for which effect.
But the lure is there, for commercial reasons, to claim standardization for active ingredients.
For example for eurypeptides? At a whooping 22 %.
Peptides what? The word eurypeptides suggests that we here deal with the peptides of Eurycoma longifolia Jack.
I have found no scientific source that would refer to eurypeptides. So, the product that is claimed to be standardized to 22 % eurypeptides is standardized to something unknown in the scientific literature.
It's also not explained at websites that sell tongkat ali extract, standardized to 22 % eurypeptides, what these peptides are supposed to be.
Of course, I know what peptides are: short chains of amino acids, held together by peptide bonds. When the chains of amino acids become longer (let's say: more than 50), then we no longer talk of peptides but of proteins.
Now, if those websites that claim to sell standardized tongkat ali extract would give some indication for which chemical substances they allegedly standardize their extract (if all that standardization talk is based on reality in the first place) that would be a step forward.
The Global Information Hub for Integrated Medicine, on the above-cited page states:
"Eurycoma longifolia is usually standardized to eurycomanone, 13alpha(21)-epoxyeurycomanone, eurycomalactone, and 14,15beta-dihydroxyklaineanone as reference markers for its organic extract whereas the more polar quassinoids and glycoproteins are used as standards for the aqueous extract."
I have never seen a commercial product standardized to any of these chemical substances. I would not exclude the possibility that any of the large chemical suppliers, e.g. Sigma Aldrich, sells an eurycoma longifolia extract standardized for eurycomanone or eurycomalactone, but they would likely only do so to chemical laboratories.
And I am sure that in any country, no eurycoma longifolia extract standardized to any of the above-listed chemicals would be allowed to go on sale as a health supplement without first going through the same kind of clinical trials that were required for sildenafil citrate or apomorphine.
Whole tongkat ali root, or tongkat ali extract that has been produced in a traditional manner by soaking and boiling chipped root, discarding the roots, and evaporating the water, has a known risk profile. In this form, tongkat ali has been consumed for centuries.
But standardizing tongkat ali extract for certain chemicals, the effect of which on humans has not been established in peer-reviewed clinical trials, is something else. And if the standardization is for chemicals that are given a fancy name which is not reflected in the scientific literature, it is something else again. Something of which I would not want to be part.
Or could it be that the whole eurypeptices story, too, is just bogus science?
- 01-14-2015, 08:45 PM
- 01-14-2015, 10:23 PM
03-18-2015, 06:54 AM
I'm replicating the Bioforge v3 and want to know how many caps of VIron I will need. 1 cap of Bioforge contains 300mgs Eurygold and I used to take 4 caps, so how many caps of Viron to get a similar effect to 1200mgs Eurygold? If 2 caps of Viron is the max you can take ed, what would be the equivalent amount in Eurygold? Thanks in advance.
03-18-2015, 10:45 AM
I smell horrible copy/paste info from a Tongkat Ali seller. The same guy say Tongkat ali need to be dark in the color etc. His name is Serge Kreutz. Fool
03-18-2015, 12:42 PM
You dont need 1200mg of our extract.
500 is plenty. which is 2 caps. I cant prove whats in their product. I only know whats in mine.
Our extract is as strong or stronger than any other. Keep in mind all these standardizations and extract %s you normally see are just marketing. For the most part anyways. In some ways the giant copy paste above was right. The majority of tongkat extracts are fake. Even the real ones that say they are standardized for this or for that are BS. Its just a standard water or maybe ethanol extract if its even that.
If you need 1200mg for it to work something is wrong. I notice 100mg of ours.
03-18-2015, 01:05 PM
03-18-2015, 01:14 PM
I would think the "truth" could be posted publicly.
03-18-2015, 01:16 PM
03-18-2015, 01:18 PM
03-18-2015, 01:30 PM
Thanks Brundel, I'll stick with two caps ed for a while and also see how one ed works for me also. I found Bioforge v3 was noticeably stronger @3 caps compared to 4, but it also contains Shilajit, Ashwangha, etc, and perhaps some of the ingredients were then being dosed unnecessarily high. Your product appears to be the only high quality decently dosed Tongkat product on the market at the moment.
03-18-2015, 02:26 PM
03-18-2015, 02:33 PM
03-18-2015, 02:59 PM
This is true.
Both are very good.
03-18-2015, 03:14 PM
03-18-2015, 03:47 PM
Viron is amazing. Hands down.
Black Lion Representative
I'm a Brooklyn boy I may take some gettin' use to
03-19-2015, 06:09 PM
03-19-2015, 06:13 PM
03-20-2015, 12:07 PM
I have to agree... BLR Viron plus some black shilajit pitch is a great combo. That is what I am doing right now.
03-20-2015, 01:00 PM
03-20-2015, 03:00 PM
I've never tried it, but after looking at the profile it seems decent. The shilajit I am taking is a block of pitch I break pieces off but I liked Primavie in LEF's CoQ10 product. When I took Sensoril it was decent too.
Wondering if the typical tongkat 5on/2off dosing protocol I like would screw with any of the built up effects of the Ashwagandha though.
03-20-2015, 03:06 PM
03-20-2015, 03:09 PM
03-20-2015, 03:13 PM
03-20-2015, 04:02 PM
03-20-2015, 04:06 PM
03-20-2015, 04:10 PM
I was referring to if one were to take the Bioforge product that has both tongkat and ashwagandha...do you think the 5 on 2 off would be most effective for ashwaganha as well?.. I have only taken as daily and so would not combine the two in one cap.
03-20-2015, 04:11 PM
03-20-2015, 04:16 PM
03-20-2015, 05:07 PM
03-20-2015, 05:18 PM
03-20-2015, 05:20 PM
03-21-2015, 10:53 AM
Viron is awesome !!! all products of the BLR are excellent!!
however when it comes to tongat Ali I remember this extract:
7, (5b)-Cholesten-2b, 3b, 14a, 20R, 22R, 25-Hexol-6-One-2-Acetate-Ester;
(Fast-Acting Pro-Testosterone Trigger)
14,15-Dihydroxyklaineanone, 7-Methoxy-b-Carboline-1-Propionic Acid, Eurycomanone
Duratest is derived from Eurocoma Longifolia (400:1)
I personally, I have not seen to date a product with TA extract standardized to 400: 1
could perhaps have been one of the best?
03-21-2015, 11:21 AM
Its shame because people get so facinated of those fancy made-up names of extracts
03-21-2015, 01:28 PM
03-22-2015, 09:40 AM
Just picked up a few bottles of Sustain Alpha & have some Viron on hand... (Have never tried SA)
Any synergy with running them together?
03-22-2015, 10:04 AM
03-22-2015, 10:30 AM
03-22-2015, 10:48 AM
Brundel take my curiosity please.....
I have recently bought the follidrone, the capsules are purple.
Since I read your comments in this regard that the follidrone with white capsules contain 99% pure -/-epi
I want to know what difference there would be with this that I have
03-22-2015, 11:05 AM
Maybe I'm way off, and totally missed this part but wasn't he talking about the raw material/powder? Not the outside color of the caps?
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