- 07-16-2014, 05:32 AM
- 07-16-2014, 05:44 AM
07-16-2014, 05:48 AM
07-16-2014, 06:04 AM
07-16-2014, 09:14 AM
07-16-2014, 09:28 AM
Yo Coop, can you post up where you get that? I've taken Boron for many years and never have had an increase in estrogen based on labs, which would match up with a more recent study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941. I understand that previous studies done with lower amounts 2.5mg and 5mg saw an increase in estrogen and test, but that when higher amounts are administered, goes up significantly, estrogen lowers, and DHT goes up. Not saying that it could not raise estrogen in some, but want to keep an open mind about what is being said and what I personally have found.
I'd like to read up more if you have articles that say otherwise. Thanks!
07-16-2014, 09:32 AM
Havent seen that Tongkat Ali reduces estrogen just that it boosts T and Boron can increase estrogen conversion. Seems like certain people have issues controlling estrogen, then an AI is necessary. I use progesterone cream just in case even though I have never had that problem. Of course I am on my very first exogenous T cycle, so what do I know?
07-16-2014, 09:40 AM
Tongkat dramatically increased myfrom 19.4 to 27.3 (5-40 pg/mL scale) when I added it after my first year on TRT. Estrogen was relatively stable but still on the higher side at the time due to the process of dialing in my .
I happen to be someone that sees a ton of benefit from boron and tongkat supplementation. I find it to be a remarkable combo.
07-16-2014, 10:03 AM
07-16-2014, 03:16 PM
07-16-2014, 03:41 PM
07-16-2014, 04:25 PM
07-16-2014, 04:29 PM
07-16-2014, 04:29 PM
07-16-2014, 04:49 PM
I really think that you should not be using that along with DHEA if you are trying to address possible sides from the DHEA. I am only assuming that is why you are taking it.
07-16-2014, 07:21 PM
Its possible estrogen can rise from Viron from an increase in testosterone and also from a reduction in SHBG.
Elevated estro can always be a potential issue when your increasing test levels so any viable test booster has this potential unless its an AI.
So, run Formeron with it if you are estro sensitive or just want to be safe. Either way combining the 2 is amazing anyways.
07-16-2014, 07:40 PM
The only time I have had high estrogen problems was when I got injured and ended up on opiates for a few years, other than that my hormones have always been pretty balanced, Im just doing everything I can to not have to start TRT (age 44) because even though both my older brothers are on it my last test a couple years ago while still on opiates was 390 and that was in the afternoon. So that started me looking at estrogen conversion possibilities. I am totally clean now, no opiates, drugs, alcohol. I am expecting my HPTG axis to restart on its own after a couple years of inactivity and opiate use. I am open to any suggestions, as welll as you are all very knowledgeable and I wouldnt be here if this forum wasnt the sheet. Im waiting a few more months with me doing all the natural test boosters before i pay for my bloodwoork (self employed no insurance.)
07-17-2014, 01:22 AM
Would it be better to just take a tongkat ali extract without the boron if that's the case? (To rule out any possible conversion to estrogen).
Mentally Unstable - Divided Mind
07-17-2014, 01:24 AM
07-17-2014, 01:53 AM
Again anything that raises test levels will raise estrogen. Should we then not have high testosterone levels?
Instead of not taking any supplements that may elevate estrogen use something to moderate it instead.
Formeron will keep estrogen at bay
Raise test levels even further
Convert to hydroxytest
drying and hardening
all the good things about Formeron plus it manages your estrogen IF it happens to rise above normal levels.
07-17-2014, 01:56 AM
This stack would be all time cut stack
Here is a before and after of a friend who ran Incinderine and Formeron for his contest prep
07-17-2014, 07:36 AM
07-17-2014, 07:38 AM
07-18-2014, 02:38 AM
12-22-2014, 09:05 AM
I think we should all be careful of fake or moonshine tongkat ali extracts. That somebody is promoting his own product as the best on a forum is just spam blabla. Look at the fundamentals: Is a product properly licensed? How long is the seller in business? Is there photographic proof of access to tongkat ali?
12-22-2014, 09:34 AM
12-22-2014, 09:50 AM
12-22-2014, 11:51 AM
12-22-2014, 12:48 PM
12-22-2014, 12:51 PM
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