Tongkat Ali

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    This stack would be all time cut stack

    Formeron
    Viron
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    Here is a before and after of a friend who ran Incinderine and Formeron for his contest prep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketch2000 View Post

    How much were you dosing viron?
    1 cap per day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post

    1 cap per day.
    5 days a week 2 days off
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post

    1 cap per day.
    K thanks
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    I think we should all be careful of fake or moonshine tongkat ali extracts. That somebody is promoting his own product as the best on a forum is just spam blabla. Look at the fundamentals: Is a product properly licensed? How long is the seller in business? Is there photographic proof of access to tongkat ali?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl17 View Post
    I think we should all be careful of fake or moonshine tongkat ali extracts. That somebody is promoting his own product as the best on a forum is just spam blabla. Look at the fundamentals: Is a product properly licensed? How long is the seller in business? Is there photographic proof of access to tongkat ali?
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    Someone getting ready to pitch his own product.
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    Long jack is good if you have "HypoGonads"
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Someone getting ready to pitch his own product.
    Ding!
    His only other post is promoting another tongkat product. HIGHLY transparent.
    The good news is thousands of people have taken my tongkat with 100% positive reviews so.....Ill take that over BS all day long.
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    High grade tongkat coupled with boron citrate.
    Priced low for the quality and dose. Has been used by thousands of people with no negative reports.

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    There is a list on ahelu.com, of all the genuine and fake tongkat ali.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeAleef View Post
    There is a list on ahelu.com, of all the genuine and fake tongkat ali.
    Many brands use fake Tongkat Ali.
    Best one is 1:200 extract and it really works.

    tongkat ali is one of the few testboosting ingredients which really works and have studies done on humans, but it will do nothing if you buy unquality ****
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    High grade tongkat coupled with boron citrate.
    Priced low for the quality and dose. Has been used by thousands of people with no negative reports.

    Viron
    I am curious what you mean with high grade tongkat ?
    1:50, 1:100, 1:200 , ethanol extract or?
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    been reading into this herb/supplement quite a bit. seems very promising, whats the verdict on the best quality?
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    Ratios mean nothing other than a marketing ploy. I've had 1:100 that was better than 1:200 and with lower mg. It is all about sourcing like anything else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowz4broz View Post
    been reading into this herb/supplement quite a bit. seems very promising, whats the verdict on the best quality?
    Best quality means more of actives (phytochemicals)such as Eurycomanones, quassinoids etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Ratios mean nothing other than a marketing ploy. I've had 1:100 that was better than 1:200 and with lower mg. It is all about sourcing like anything else.
    Believe me , there are sooo many brands claiming they have 1:50, 1:100 and 1: 200 but lab test showed nothing than garbage.

    1:200 extract is not many who sell and if you find it, they will show a lab test gladly to prove their quality.

    1:200 means u need 200kg to make 1kg of tongkat 1:200 extract
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    For the official LJ 100 by herbal power, Universal N 1T is really well price. and you know you get the real good stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Ratios mean nothing other than a marketing ploy. I've had 1:100 that was better than 1:200 and with lower mg. It is all about sourcing like anything else.
    THis is the truth.
    THere is no standard by which 200:1 is measured. Basically a company can just say it and there is no way to dis prove it aside from chemical testing.
    Ill hold mine up to ANY tongkat on the market with regards to quality, strength and effect.
    THe price is as good as it gets as well.
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    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/no...ojack-200.html

    how do u guys feel about this ? the ingredient label looks too nice

    what confuses me is this '(Min. 10% Saponins)'


    good or bad?
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    THis is the truth.
    THere is no standard by which 200:1 is measured. Basically a company can just say it and there is no way to dis prove it aside from chemical testing.
    Ill hold mine up to ANY tongkat on the market with regards to quality, strength and effect.
    THe price is as good as it gets as well.
    Have to give credit where credit is due and Viron is a great tongkat product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    THis is the truth.
    THere is no standard by which 200:1 is measured. Basically a company can just say it and there is no way to dis prove it aside from chemical testing.
    Ill hold mine up to ANY tongkat on the market with regards to quality, strength and effect.
    THe price is as good as it gets as well.
    1: i agree companies use those standards to sell more and almost no one would ask for lab test/quality

    2. But i have seen one company showing me lab test results and i am more than happy.

    3. ahelu.com is nothing than bull****.
    Serge Kreutz is a big clown and no need to be rocket scientist to find out he is a big scam
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    i would use viron but what scares me is the boron, from what I've read boron effects DHT and dht relates to balding... with a bald father and 2 bald grandfathers and a thinning hairline the dh raise scares me
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowz4broz View Post
    i would use viron but what scares me is the boron, from what I've read boron effects DHT and dht relates to balding... with a bald father and 2 bald grandfathers and a thinning hairline the dh raise scares me
    Well as you maybe know, as we get older, we get more of 5 Alpha Reductase , which convert T to DHT.

    No need to avoid Viron if you want to try it
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    so correct me if I'm wrong but, what you saying is that Viron (although it raises dht) will not have any impact on hair issues ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowz4broz View Post
    so correct me if I'm wrong but, what you saying is that Viron (although it raises dht) will not have any impact on hair issues ?
    More DHT = bigger risk for baldbess BUT..
    As I know boron has minimal impact on serum DHT compared to increase free test levels etc
    (Statistically Significant, p-value < 0.05)
    "No significant influences on serum DHT noted"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    5 days a week 2 days off
    If someone want to run 8 weeks then I Would say TA (found in Viron) could be taken everyday, but if the idea is to run months after months (non stop)then 5 days on and 2 days off would be great way to take it
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    Definitely want to cycle it. 5/2 is what a lot of people do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Definitely want to cycle it. 5/2 is what a lot of people do.
    I really see no point of cycling it like that if the goal is just 8 weeks usage. But for those who want to take it for hypogonads then a run like 5 days on and 2 days off or even 10 days on and 2-3 days off year around would be good
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    I have a bottle of tongkat Ali, but haven't taken it due to my current PH cycle. can I take tongkat Ali during pct or during my natty cycle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgntyce View Post
    I have a bottle of tongkat Ali, but haven't taken it due to my current PH cycle. can I take tongkat Ali during pct or during my natty cycle?
    It can be taken during PCT or as add to natty cycle.
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    5 on 2 off has been working best regardless of cycle length.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    5 on 2 off has been working best regardless of cycle length.
    so I can take it during my PH cycle?
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    2 consecutive days off?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgntyce View Post
    so I can take it during my PH cycle?
    Yes sir.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddfox View Post
    2 consecutive days off?
    Yes. You can really tell the difference on the off days and on days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    Yes sir.
    right on! I'll start tomorrow and take off for two days on Saturday and Sunday.
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    so just to clarify, this can be taken year round, but only if following the 5 on, 2 off protocol?
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    I have been taking TA many times and as i said there is no need to take any days off if the goal is short cycle as 6-8 weeks.
    there is no evidence which can prove 5 days on and 2 days off working better than taking it everyday (8 week as example)
    Why brands suggest those small breaks is to avoid body get used to a ingredient which could lead to less effectiveness. But many times its just pointless IMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgntyce View Post
    so just to clarify, this can be taken year round, but only if following the 5 on, 2 off protocol?
    Correct

    5 days on and 2 days off gives you 40% break from the product.
    Its like you run it for 60 days and taking a break foe 24 days .

    But honestly is it not sure if TA need to be cycled at all. Cycling from long run is to:

    -mininize sides (if it is any)
    -to avoid body getting used to the ingredient
  

  
 

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