Mixing Pre-Workout Supps - Experiences?

[MBChiro]

So.... I recently got my hands on a tub of BSN N.O. Xplode 2.0 and a tub of VPX Shotgun 5X. I have taken neither before so I thought this might be a great opportunity for a little experiment/log. My idea is this: Take one supplement for 1-2 weeks, then the other supplement for 1-2 weeks, then take half and half of each for 1-2 weeks and log all of it. Then we can pick apart the differences and such. Does that sound like a legit idea or do you think I have too much time on my hands? :stupid: I was going to post the supp facts for N.O. Xplode 2.0 and Shotgun 5X, but my posts haven't reached 20 yet, so more on that later (unless someone else is feelin' busy)

 

[johnnyp]

Personally I wouldn't want to combine two proprietary blend stimulant containing pre workouts. Mixing stimulant containing pres with non stims however is fairly common.

 

[Afi140]

That would be a waste of time around these parts IMHO. You could log the shotgun but most know about and have formulated opinions on xplode already so it wouldn't do you any good. I also wouldn't combine pre's (especially those two)

 

[The Solution]

Do not mix 2 stimmed products
a Stim and a Non-Stim however would be much more optimal.

 

[The Solution]

Do not mix 2 stimmed products
a Stim and a Non-Stim however would be much more optimal.

 

[MBChiro]

Okay so the general consensus thus far is not to mix two stimmed products together, although 1 scoop of NO Xplode 2.0 has 200 mg caffeine, so a half scoop is only 100 mg. It also only has some periwinkle alkaloids and glucuronolactone. I already take a 10 mg vinpocetine tablet with Pre-Jym and it's great without any sides I can think of. Glucuronolactone has been shown to have no observed effect at 1000 mg/kg/day*, so I can't see that causing much of a mess. 1 scoop of Shotgun 5x has a 240 mg stimulant blend (including hordenine and tyrosine), so the absolute MAX caffeine would be 120 mg in a half scoop. That puts two combined half scoops at a generous 220 mg of caffeine, tops. Probably less. Plus some plant alkaloids and amino acids that hardly engage the CNS enough to be called stimulants at those doses. And keep in mind that Pre-Jym has 300 mg of caffeine per serving. Just sayin'. Did you guys see any products between the two with contraindications or are we just going by conventional wisdom? It's not like there's ephedra, yohimbe, and 1,3-dimethylamylamine combined with synephrine. Either way, I will give the two a shot (1/2 dose of each) and take it easy, and if I feel weird, I'll sub out the NO Xplode for some Hemavol. That's something I've always wanted to try anyways so win-win. Sorry if I sound like a smart ass, but I would like to know the reasoning behind not mixing these two together. I'm sure there is a two stim combo that would not be optimal, but why these two? Thanks in advance!

*EFSA - Opinion of the Scientific Committee/Scientific Panel: The use of taurine and D-glucurono-gamma-lactone as constituents of the so-called energy drinks. European Food Safety Authority.

 

[Jiigzz]

Okay so the general consensus thus far is not to mix two stimmed products together, although 1 scoop of NO Xplode 2.0 has 200 mg caffeine, so a half scoop is only 100 mg. It also only has some periwinkle alkaloids and glucuronolactone. I already take a 10 mg vinpocetine tablet with Pre-Jym and it's great without any sides I can think of. Glucuronolactone has been shown to have no observed effect at 1000 mg/kg/day*, so I can't see that causing much of a mess. 1 scoop of Shotgun 5x has a 240 mg stimulant blend (including hordenine and tyrosine), so the absolute MAX caffeine would be 120 mg in a half scoop. That puts two combined half scoops at a generous 220 mg of caffeine, tops. Probably less. Plus some plant alkaloids and amino acids that hardly engage the CNS enough to be called stimulants at those doses. And keep in mind that Pre-Jym has 300 mg of caffeine per serving. Just sayin'. Did you guys see any products between the two with contraindications or are we just going by conventional wisdom? It's not like there's ephedra, yohimbe, and 1,3-dimethylamylamine combined with synephrine. Either way, I will give the two a shot (1/2 dose of each) and take it easy, and if I feel weird, I'll sub out the NO Xplode for some Hemavol. That's something I've always wanted to try anyways so win-win. Sorry if I sound like a smart ass, but I would like to know the reasoning behind not mixing these two together. I'm sure there is a two stim combo that would not be optimal, but why these two? Thanks in advance!

*EFSA - Opinion of the Scientific Committee/Scientific Panel: The use of taurine and D-glucurono-gamma-lactone as constituents of the so-called energy drinks. European Food Safety Authority.

I see you your article and raise you this: http://www.ergo-log.com/why-energy-drinks-contain-glucuronolactone.html

 

[Olympus Labs]

If you have the money to spend on a serious PRE, then check out CONQU3R

 

[MBChiro]

Ok I'll bite, Jiigzz. Good read. Reps. Buuut you inadvertently helped me prove my point if glucuronolactone is synergistic with caffeine, no? That would make this ingredient an indication rather than a contraindication/negative interaction when combining the two supps.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

So.... Does that sound like a legit idea or do you think I have too much time on my hands? :stupid:

the latter....totally goofy
but hey, you wanna do it, go for it -- just don't think anyone around here (or anywhere else for that matter) is gonna be excited about anything you have to say about this "protocol" you suggest

talk about splitting hairs and getting caught up in the irrelevant minutiae ...
just go eat right and train your ass off already, will ya?

 

[cubsfan815]

Do not mix 2 stimmed products
a Stim and a Non-Stim however would be much more optimal.

Yup I like to do this sometimes. If I don't want too many stims.

 

[Young Gotti]

i've done it before, it's not that big of a deal, assuming you know the effects of the products on their own

stim and non stim is always fine

but for example i'll be running conquer and dr jekyll together....both are lower stim products but I see no problem with combining one scoop of each

 

[milkmaniac]

Sometimes if I'm running short on time, instead of taking a pre that takes 30-45 minutes to kick in, I'll take a half dose of something I know to kick in quicker (seems like they should all take about the same time but they don't for me), like LG Science Epic or Axiom, and a half dose of something that takes/lasts a little longer, like C4 (bonus if it comes in caps, like Acute FX). Could be placebo, but it works for me.

 

[bakerwil]

I mix pre workouts all the time and found some winning combinations along the way.

 

[MBChiro]

the latter....totally goofy
but hey, you wanna do it, go for it -- just don't think anyone around here (or anywhere else for that matter) is gonna be excited about anything you have to say about this "protocol" you suggest

talk about splitting hairs and getting caught up in the irrelevant minutiae ...

just go eat right and train your ass off already, will ya?

Never said "protocol" so not sure why I am being quoted; simply an idea. I already eat right and train my ass off, which is why I experiment with supplements... they are a supplement to my routine, not a first line strategy or magic bullets. It's only irrelevant if it doesn't work for you or you have no interest in experimenting. Experimentation is crucial in the innovation process, especially when it comes to finding what does an doesn't work for each individual.

Sometimes if I'm running short on time, instead of taking a pre that takes 30-45 minutes to kick in, I'll take a half dose of something I know to kick in quicker (seems like they should all take about the same time but they don't for me), like LG Science Epic or Axiom, and a half dose of something that takes/lasts a little longer, like C4 (bonus if it comes in caps, like Acute FX). Could be placebo, but it works for me.

I like the idea of combining two different supps that have varying "dose to effect" timings (just made that up) because I've noticed certain pre's are slow on the come up but last till the end of the workout, and some are felt almost immediately but seem to wash out halfway thru. You may be on to something here. Are the examples you gave the best combos you've come across so far, milkmaniac? Also bakerwil, what winning combos would you recommend?

 

[snagencyV2.0]

Never said "protocol" so not sure why I am being quoted; simply an idea. I already eat right and train my ass off, which is why I experiment with supplements... they are a supplement to my routine, not a first line strategy or magic bullets. It's only irrelevant if it doesn't work for you or you have no interest in experimenting. Experimentation is crucial in the innovation process, especially when it comes to finding what does an doesn't work for each individual.

when one puts "quotation" marks around something, it doesn't always necessarily mean I am quoting anything you (or anybody else for that matter) has said, lol..in this instance, it denotes a quip for your so-called "experimentation" (<-- see, like that)

but yes - nothing wrong with the idea you suggest really - if there is a point to it
if you think two separate products complement each other in their profiles, then it can be very valid and useful..
for example: I like to take our FINAFLEX Ignite2, and mix it with our Stimul8, @1/2 serving or so of each..totally different profiles and ingredients aimed at two totally diverse actions, that absolutely complement each other and provide great focus & boost in training..

I guess I just don't go around asking for others to pat me on the back for my ingenuity, or try to come across like I'm reinventing the wheel, with an idea that basically has been around for a very long time

to each their own tho - but my point is, just do it if you want, don't worry what anyone else says, and don't think this is original or an epiphany for everybody else

 

[MBChiro]

when one puts "quotation" marks around something, it doesn't always necessarily mean I am quoting anything you (or anybody else for that matter) has said, lol..in this instance, it denotes a quip for your so-called "experimentation" (<-- see, like that)

but yes - nothing wrong with the idea you suggest really - if there is a point to it
if you think two separate products complement each other in their profiles, then it can be very valid and useful..
for example: I like to take our FINAFLEX Ignite2, and mix it with our Stimul8, @1/2 serving or so of each..totally different profiles and ingredients aimed at two totally diverse actions, that absolutely complement each other and provide great focus & boost in training..

I guess I just don't go around asking for others to pat me on the back for my ingenuity, or try to come across like I'm reinventing the wheel, with an idea that basically has been around for a very long time

to each their own tho - but my point is, just do it if you want, don't worry what anyone else says, and don't think this is original or an epiphany for everybody else

I wasn't looking for a pat on the back or claimed that I "reinvented the wheel" here. I searched the forum for the particular combination I was thinking of and found nothing, so I started a thread. I was simply looking for some guidance to do my own experimentation based on other people's experiences to point me in the right direction, so I don't have to buy every pre-workout supplement and compare them all. Isn't that the point of a forum? To share ideas and experiences for the collective good of everyone involved?

 

[snagencyV2.0]

I was simply looking for some guidance to do my own experimentation based on other people's experiences to point me in the right direction, so I don't have to buy every pre-workout supplement and compare them all.

isn't your own opinion a bit more valid to you, personally, than some joe schmo you don't even know, on the webz?
your own real life experience is the most valuable teacher you will ever have..trying to add some perspective to your own experience is fine - but I surely wouldn't advise you make all your decisions based on a forum

Isn't that the point of a forum? To share ideas and experiences for the collective good of everyone involved?

if that's what you want it to be, and how you view it, then fine
sure looks like "share ideas and experiences for the collective good of everyone involved" can be easily translated to "looking for pat on the back or trying to reinvent the wheel" -- especially if you think you are the first one to ever think of mixing preWOs...

look man - you can say whatever you want on these forums, I ain't mad at ya
and you do not have to explain or attempt to justify to me, why you embrace the thoughts you have..
but in return, anyone else can say what they think, regarding your own thoughts - it kinda works both ways

and it seems you are being a bit selective in singling me out, based on what you claim you are trying to accomplish..
I mean, you have a number of ppl saying they would not advise mixing two different preWOs -- and yet, I am the only one you seem to reference here who takes an opposing view of your own

hell, I even said you may have some validity in your idea - and yet here you still are, taking time to explain your stance to me, and trying to get me to embrace your POV further....

no worries man, rock n roll and carry on, best

 

[hulkish1]

snagency , your the man

I wouldn't mix PWO whats the point marvel mystery blend of stims and pretty much all the same compounds but a couple.
if your hard up and feel you need to make a crazy concoction have at it but why don't you add bulk agmapure or aminos or something of hydration
just my 2 cents.

 

[milkmaniac]

I like the idea of combining two different supps that have varying "dose to effect" timings (just made that up) because I've noticed certain pre's are slow on the come up but last till the end of the workout, and some are felt almost immediately but seem to wash out halfway thru. You may be on to something here. Are the examples you gave the best combos you've come across so far, milkmaniac? Also bakerwil, what winning combos would you recommend?

I started doing that method for another reason, but it ended up paying off for the endurance factor. Sometimes the fast-hitting ones not only fizzle out quickly but a full dose hits me so hard that, instead of feeling focused, my brain is at warp speed and it gets even harder to concentrate on one thing. My workout plan suddenly seems to need 5 million "improvements" and variations but I can't decide which one is best and my training keeps getting interrupted by Google searches and a lot of staring at the weights trying to make a decision :dunno: Epic is a prop. blend, so probably not the best advice to mix it, I've actually only mixed it with something once (it lasts long enough for my current workouts, anyway). ~3/4 scoop Axiom and ~3/4 C4 (or two caps of Acute FX) was my go-to mix when I was training two hours+ a day. I should note I only weigh 190 right now, so the ratios and effects would be a lot different for the monsters on this forum.

 

[Jakey]

I think one of the best stim combinations that I did was one scoop of alphamine and one scoop of enhanced (both international). But they're quite similar.

 

[Colbert]

If you have the money to spend on a serious PRE, then check out CONQU3R

That^^^^^ the best I've tried in a VERY long time, hands down.

 

[MBChiro]

Cool guys, thanks for your input. I'll take it all into consideration (even you snagency :wink1 as I move forward from here.