ECA stack question

[breakoutyear]

Is there a specific brand anyone uses for ephedrine? I know caffeine is caffeine but what about this ephedrine stuff? Also looking to order the new Folli product and do sort of a mini recomp/cut.

Is the ECA stack the most effective cutting stack for cutting body fat and preserving muscle mass or is their a superior supplement or stack?

 

[goodvibes]

You have ephedrine sulfate and hcl. Primatene and bronkaid can be bought over the counter. Lots of information online. Very well documented and studied compound

 

[vujade]

I'd look into ECA stacked with Forskolin

Check out Mr Coppers post about Forskolin stacked with beta agonists....

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/234939-coops-corner-1-a.html

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

check this out... these new generation fat burners are better than ECA..
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/248984-iforce-nutrition-guess.html

check out norcodrene and alphamine too!

 

[vujade]

check this out... these new generation fat burners are better than ECA.. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/248984-iforce-nutrition-guess.html check out norcodrene and alphamine too!

When you say it's better the ECA stack... Dwe're there university double blind studies done to prove this,,?

Because ECA has multiple studies done proving its effectiveness

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

well just for example..
VPX has been publishing studies in journals for yrs showing their meltdown formula was 5x stronger. that was like 10 yrs ago.
the problem is you wont find much in the way of studies because there are so many different combinations of ingredients and dosing.
if you were to how ever do a case by case study on single ingredients you will see a lot of stuff that has huge potential to burn fat.

and don't get me started on pathways. because here we are comparing ECA wich was popularized in the early 90s, which basically targets one method of fatloss. todays science has found many different ways to burn fat. 20 yrs of science and people still want to argue that ECA is best. well im afraid I disagree.
tell you what, show me studies that ECA outperforms current gen fatburners, can you find any of those?

 

[rangestormer]

Quite an interesting topic for me, because ephedrine is not available where I live, so it is very, very hard to get.
xR1pp3Rx, would you say Dexaprine XR is better than EC at fat loss?

 

[JpB]

A cocktail of synthetic stimulants found in a dietary supplement associated with serious adverse events - Venhuis - 2014 - Drug Testing and Analysis - Wiley Online Library


USA Today Article

 

[Warthog13]

When you say it's better the ECA stack... Dwe're there university double blind studies done to prove this,,?

Because ECA has multiple studies done proving its effectiveness

FWIW, I'm an engineer and a self-admitted statistics geek. For the longest time, I've been meaning to go back over my weight logs (where I noted when I was running ECA and not) to see if there was a difference. I perceived there was but - holy moley - was I surprised.

This isn't a controlled study by ANY stretch and there are many variables but with over 700 data points spanning three years and 11 runs of ECA (lasting approximately a month each), here's what I found:

0.13 lbs per week lost while not running ECA
1.42 lbs per week lost while running ECA

For you geeks out there, this meets the criteria for statistical significance at 99%.

This totally blew me away though. As I said, I certainly perceived a difference running ECA vs. not running but I had no idea the difference was at that magnitude!

 

[vujade]

Thats impressive difference Warthop....

 

[rangestormer]

Great info, Warthog, thanks for sharing. I would love to see such comparison for any of the actual fat burners.

 

[Warthog13]

Yeah - that won't hold up in a clinical review by any means (diet varied, exercise varied) but that's still a large enough difference over many, many data points that can't just be explained by coincidence or randomness.

One other take away. I guess I've only been running ECA once every three months. I wonder if I can take it more frequently? (One month on, one month off)

 

[z28spd]

Yeah - that won't hold up in a clinical review by any means (diet varied, exercise varied) but that's still a large enough difference over many, many data points that can't just be explained by coincidence or randomness.

One other take away. I guess I've only been running ECA once every three months. I wonder if I can take it more frequently? (One month on, one month off)

probably indefinitely. I believe there's a study that showed improved weight loss through 24 weeks, and maintained or slightly improved from weeks 26-50.

 

[Warthog13]

probably indefinitely. I believe there's a study that showed improved weight loss through 24 weeks, and maintained or slightly improved from weeks 26-50.

This may just be me but after a month of running ECA, I really need to come off it for awhile. Makes me "zombified" by the end of the run. I don't know if it's the E or C but 4 weeks is about my limit.

 

[breakoutyear]

You have ephedrine sulfate and hcl. Primatene and bronkaid can be bought over the counter. Lots of information online. Very well documented and studied compound

How are you supposed to dose these compounds. How many mg of ephedrine a day and timing?

 

[breakoutyear]

FWIW, I'm an engineer and a self-admitted statistics geek. For the longest time, I've been meaning to go back over my weight logs (where I noted when I was running ECA and not) to see if there was a difference. I perceived there was but - holy moley - was I surprised.

This isn't a controlled study by ANY stretch and there are many variables but with over 700 data points spanning three years and 11 runs of ECA (lasting approximately a month each), here's what I found:

0.13 lbs per week lost while not running ECA
1.42 lbs per week lost while running ECA

For you geeks out there, this meets the criteria for statistical significance at 99%.

This totally blew me away though. As I said, I certainly perceived a difference running ECA vs. not running but I had no idea the difference was at that magnitude!

Wow very interesting. How did you dose ECA and what time did you take it to get those type of results? Did you use OTC ephedrine or something else?

 

[vujade]

How are you supposed to dose these compounds. How many mg of ephedrine a day and timing?

Full dose

25mg E
200 C
80mg A

If you havent used them before, start with half a dose of each. Or if your unsure, you can even try a quarter dose.
But in the studies a full dose was given 2-3 times per day every 4 hours, so you might does it at 8a, 12p & 4p.

I personally never take more then twice per day so that it doesnt keep me up. But when I was younger I would
dose it 3 times per day no problem.

 

[Warthog13]

Wow very interesting. How did you dose ECA and what time did you take it to get those type of results? Did you use OTC ephedrine or something else?

The dosage I used was 2 Primatine (or generic) tablets (25 mg of E), 1 caffeine tablet (200 mg), and 1 aspirin (around 300 mg). FWIW, the next run I'm goinf to use baby asprin (81 mg).

I started out with 1 dose per day (first thingbin morning / empty stomache) for about 3-4 days depending on how I felt. Then I went to 2 doses per day - 1st thing in morning and 2 PM. After 5-7 days, I'd try 3 doses per day (taking the 2nd at 10AM and the 3rd at 2PM). Though, sometimes 3 per day would just be too much and I'd only taken 2. Total time was around a month.

 

[goodvibes]

I only dose it once, pre workout. 2 days on 1 day off. Then I take a week off every 3rd week. I do 3 cycles only during spring time to lean out for summer. Dosage:

25mg ephedrine
300-400mg caffeine (depends on the preworkout supp I take too)
81 mg baby aspirin

 

[goodvibes]

I also tried the two a days but I lost too much appetite so I wasn't eating properly. I want my appetite up when I'm leaning out so I have no problem eating clean food. Getting enough protein when I'm on a diet is tough for me without rice.

 

[Warthog13]

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to try an 'EaA' (I wish I could do a greek alpha but I'm on my tablet).

Basically, 1 scoop of Alphamine, 2 Primatine tabs, and a 81mg aspirin tab.

There's 125 mg of caffeine per scoop of Alphamine. Combine that with the Yohimbe and that should suffice for 200mg of caffeine.

We'll see how it goes.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Quite an interesting topic for me, because ephedrine is not available where I live, so it is very, very hard to get.
xR1pp3Rx, would you say Dexaprine XR is better than EC at fat loss?

dexaprine is comparable to alphamine. and as far as that article goes.. I refer you to the advanced discussions forum and read up about whats really going on with that whole thing.

 

[NPCfitPro]

Primatine and a good fat burner that contains 150-200mgs of caffein (no more)

 

[Warthog13]

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to try an 'EaA' (I wish I could do a greek alpha but I'm on my tablet).

Basically, 1 scoop of Alphamine, 2 Primatine tabs, and a 81mg aspirin tab.

There's 125 mg of caffeine per scoop of Alphamine. Combine that with the Yohimbe and that should suffice for 200mg of caffeine.

We'll see how it goes.

If anybody is interested it's been 2 weeks since I started E-Alphamine-A and I've lost 7 pounds (7.1 to be exact).

I've been taking it twice per day (6AM and 2PM) but missed 3.5 days due to traveling during the holiday. I've only been able to lift twice (but I did keep up with general morning pullups and dips almost daily and abs every other day) and run 4 times (7 miles, 5.25, 6.25, and 6.25) during that time. Diet has been dialed-in except the four days over the holiday...nothing too egregious but I did have gelato and cake.

According to my scale (which I don't give too much credence but it's all I have) I've lost 2.7 pounds of fat, 3.1 lbs of H2O, and 1.3 lbs of muscle.

I'll be glad to get back to being able to do more serious lifting workouts and regular running. If I find myself at a plateau for a few days, I'm planning to go to 3x per day but I'll stick with 2x for the time being.

I know it's only one run of two weeks, but this has worked better for me than the traditional ECA stack has. I'm very pleased.

 

[alexoc949]

Is there a way to give minus rep points for replies like this? Just curious

well just for example..
VPX has been publishing studies in journals for yrs showing their meltdown formula was 5x stronger. that was like 10 yrs ago.
the problem is you wont find much in the way of studies because there are so many different combinations of ingredients and dosing.
if you were to how ever do a case by case study on single ingredients you will see a lot of stuff that has huge potential to burn fat.

and don't get me started on pathways. because here we are comparing ECA wich was popularized in the early 90s, which basically targets one method of fatloss. todays science has found many different ways to burn fat. 20 yrs of science and people still want to argue that ECA is best. well im afraid I disagree.
tell you what, show me studies that ECA outperforms current gen fatburners, can you find any of those?

 

[Jiigzz]

Is there a way to give minus rep points for replies like this? Just curious

Why? Because he's challenging you?

 

[alexoc949]

I was just curious if there was a way.pretty sure he wasn't challenging me, that was my first reply in this thread. i don't even know who the person is.

Why? Because he's challenging you?

 

[Jiigzz]

I was just curious if there was a way.pretty sure he wasn't challenging me, that was my first reply in this thread. i don't even know who the person is.

But why neg him?

 

[reps4jesus]

Is there a way to give minus rep points for replies like this? Just curious

Ill neg you if you neg him.

 

[schizm]

Neg war on 3!!! 1...2....

 

[veaderko]

I was just curious if there was a way.pretty sure he wasn't challenging me, that was my first reply in this thread. i don't even know who the person is.

I suppose if you really want to neg him you can. No one is stopping you. But dont be suprised when those who have been around A LOT longer than you will neg you back. On top of that, instead of neg-ing him, why not attempt to challenge him back?

In all honesty, your acting like a keyboard samuri. Dont agree with someone and neg them?

 

[JpB]

board reps jumping all over this. Way to rep your companies fellas..

 

[infraredline]

Is there a specific brand anyone uses for ephedrine? I know caffeine is caffeine but what about this ephedrine stuff? Also looking to order the new Folli product and do sort of a mini recomp/cut.

Is the ECA stack the most effective cutting stack for cutting body fat and preserving muscle mass or is their a superior supplement or stack?

I use primatene for the first few weeks but once I get up into the 50mg range I switch to bronkaid simply because bronkaid is 25mg of ephedrine per tablet and primatene is only 12.5mg per tablet.

I have found using 1g of green tea extract for your caffeine source and then 2.5mg of yohimbine hcl with each dose if ephedrine as an alpha blocker works best at least for me.

 

[laneanders]

I used Kaizen for ages. My favorite fat burners have been ECA and Dexaprine XR.

 

[Vj63]

But why neg him?

Iforce

 

[dkgreene88]

Some good fat burners that I have personal experience with are DexaprineXR and alphamine.

 

[alexoc949]

cause most of the current fat burners are garbage. they do not compare to the good old ephedra. he's probably too young to know.. that **** was like crack

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Is there a way to give minus rep points for replies like this? Just curious

do it ***got ... I got all kinds of proof to take you to the mat with.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

cause most of the current fat burners are garbage. they do not compare to the good old ephedra. he's probably too young to know.. that **** was like crack

WTF!!?? gtfo of here. ephedra=crack LMAO you got a lot to learn dude.

 

[JpB]

do it ***got ... I got all kinds of proof to take you to the mat with.

classy.. Keep losing business for the company you are trying to rep.

 

[infraredline]

WTF!!?? gtfo of here. ephedra=crack LMAO you got a lot to learn dude.

Umhm, well just an FYI, 12mg of ephedra only equals 1mg of ephedrine. So I would say the other poster is correct, the stuff now doesn't even compare unless you are buying ephedrine from the pharmacy

 

[vujade]

do it ***got ... I got all kinds of proof to take you to the mat with.

Sign me up. Send me a catalog. I really want to support a company that has Reps who call potential
customers derogatory names and challenge them. That's a real class company that deserves my money.

What Ive found in my life is this when it comes to People that call other people names:

The are usually
A. Not very intelligent themselves & can't think of intelligent replies
C. Are usually wrong so they're trying to defend themselves

 

[fueledpassion]

Umhm, well just an FYI, 12mg of ephedra only equals 1mg of ephedrine. So I would say the other poster is correct, the stuff now doesn't even compare unless you are buying ephedrine from the pharmacy

Huh, 12 to 1...didnt know that.

I only use Primatene tabs. 25-37.5mg Ephedrine at a time with 200mg caffeine tabs. Works well to

1) Increase sense of well-being
2) Suppress appetite

With that said, I've gotten better results from GHS peptides and fasted cardio 3-4 days a week. I personally think the majority of weightloss associated with Ephedrine is from appetite suppression. Of course people will lose weight when they eat less!

Also, not that it has anything to do with Ephedrine but Albuterol is a nice energy and stamina booster and has aided in me keeping muscle mass during my cut. Also good for cholestetol too which is just a plus.

 

[infraredline]

Huh, 12 to 1...didnt know that.

I only use Primatene tabs. 25-37.5mg Ephedrine at a time with 200mg caffeine tabs. Works well to

1) Increase sense of well-being
2) Suppress appetite

With that said, I've gotten better results from GHS peptides and fasted cardio 3-4 days a week. I personally think the majority of weightloss associated with Ephedrine is from appetite suppression. Of course people will lose weight when they eat less!

Also, not that it has anything to do with Ephedrine but Albuterol is a nice energy and stamina booster and has aided in me keeping muscle mass during my cut. Also good for cholestetol too which is just a plus.

Yeah, that's a rough estimation of course but that's ball park.

I use primatene tabs to, they are great and if you ask me they pack a little more kick than the old ephedrine tabs from the days before the ban. I don't really get a huge appetite suppression from ephedrine though it definitely makes me more vascular and leans me out.

I love albuterol though, I wish it were a little cheaper cause if it were I'd use it over ephedrine every time. That being said primatene is only like $10 so my wallet obliges me to use it over albuterol

 

[fueledpassion]

A couple of internet pharmacies sell it cheap.

Like $2 for 30 pills...

U could get 90, 8mg pills for less than $35 shipped.

Just sayin but yeah its easy to walk into Walgreens and go get it BTC.

 

[rangestormer]

Ephedrine is hardly available where I live due to it being illegal, but albuterol is avaible cheap. I thought it was not popular anymore. Am I wrong and should I consider it?

 

[fueledpassion]

Ephedrine is hardly available where I live due to it being illegal, but albuterol is avaible cheap. I thought it was not popular anymore. Am I wrong and should I consider it?

Well, Albuterol is less "stimulanty" but it does three things well that makes me like it alot more:

1) it increases aerobic and anaerobic performance

2) it helps cholesterol levels

3) it raises muscle protein synthesis

Plus, it doesnt affect appetite which means it can be run as a staple year round.

 

[mr.cooper69]

It is important to remember that when you use a dose of albuterol that produces the effects listed above, you're out of the safety range and should expect things like tremor and cardiac hypertrophy if abused longterm

 

[fueledpassion]

It is important to remember that when you use a dose of albuterol that produces the effects listed above, you're out of the safety range and should expect things like tremor and cardiac hypertrophy if abused longterm

No, thats wrong. The study produced all of those results at 16mg/day for non-asthma athletes.

Please dont assume. I'm not someone that says things that I "heard". I actually look up studies and read them for myself to make sure I'm following them the same. If I was speaking heresay, I'd mention that in my post.

Cholesterol benefits at 16mg - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8637445/

Snippet on MPS and Albuterol - http://search.engrant.com/project/RIlg26/effects_of_albuterol_on_muscle_protein_synthesis

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0087840

Lastly, at those doses, if one has a decent tolerance to them, can expect strength & stamina increases with heart healthy benefits as no study has indicated otherwise to date.

Stuff id mild. 8mg hits me about as hard as 12.5mg of Ephedrine...no increase in blood pressure or heart rate. Just clean "I can breath" energy.

 

[mr.cooper69]

No, thats wrong. The study produced all of those results at 16mg/day for non-asthma athletes.

Please dont assume. I'm not someone that says things that I "heard". I actually look up studies and read them for myself to make sure I'm following them the same. If I was speaking heresay, I'd mention that in my post.

Cholesterol benefits at 16mg - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8637445/

Snippet on MPS and Albuterol - http://search.engrant.com/project/RIlg26/effects_of_albuterol_on_muscle_protein_synthesis

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0087840

Lastly, at those doses, if one has a decent tolerance to them, can expect strength & stamina increases with heart healthy benefits as no study has indicated otherwise to date.

Stuff id mild. 8mg hits me about as hard as 12.5mg of Ephedrine...no increase in blood pressure or heart rate. Just clean "I can breath" energy.

I didn't assume anything about you or even mention you. Relax.

I wasn't referring to cholesterol with my post. I was referring to albuterol's obvious relationship to this thread: body composition. Fat loss may occur at studied doses, but to say it's going to raise MPS to any significant degree is stretching. Models of myasthenia gravis in rats, characterized by massive proximal muscle atrophy from autoimmune blockade of the NMJ, or a pilot trial in the elderly (with no results), who typically experiencing muscle loss with time, do not qualify as evidence by my measure, especially when the target population is young weight training males on high protein diets who are already doing virtually everything to maximize 24-hour MPS.