AMP Citrate: The new DMAA????

[NO_HYPE]

AMP Citrate "The next DMAA".... Where's the safety data?

So I'm assuming based on the 17 or so different 1,3-dimethylbutylamine [aka AMP citrate aka 4-methyl-2-Pentanamine] products currently available, that from a company profit standpoint.... it's just better to turn and burn and say screw the FDA, compliance and the lack of safety data.

I personally don't want to see anyone's health jeopardized with long-term use of AMP citrate, and I think this complete lack of safety data really needs to be addressed, as the number of products are rising by the month.

The MSDS data is all there is. There's nothing else published that I could find. Nonetheless, the data indicates that AMP citrate is caustic & moderately toxic by ingestion [at what dose we don't know]. Another MSDS indicated that the compound can be extremely destructive to mucous membranes and the upper respiratory tract.

From what I understand, LeCheek Nutrition was responsible for introducing the compound to the market, as well as the whole "extracted from the aroma of Pouchong tea" nonsense - which every company is now parroting.

Why didn't LeCheek conduct some safety data prior to release [or any company who decides to provide AMP citrate to their consumers for that matter]?



CAS No.:108-09-8
Product Name : 4-methyl-2-Pentanamine
Molecular Formula : C6H15 N
Molecular Weight : 101.22
EINECS : 203-549-6
Density : 0.717
Boiling Point : 108-110 ºC
Flash Point : 12 ºC
Risk Codes : R11;R20/21/22;R34
Appearance : white or almost white powder
Transport Information : UN 2379
Hazard Symbols :
Safety : Poison by intravenous route. Moderately toxic by ingestion and skin contact. Mildly toxic by inhalation. A dangerous fire and explosion hazard when exposed to heat or flame; can react vigorously with oxidizing materials. To fight fire, use foam, CO2, dry chemical. When heated to decomposition it emits toxic fumes of NOx.

 

[NO_HYPE]

Am I missing any?


AMP Citrate

AMPitropin

AMPilean

Ambush

Alpha Drive

Angel Dust

Decimate Amplified

EVOL

Game Day

Frenzy

HyperMax

OxyTherm Pro

OxyFIT Xtreme

PreAMP

Red Rum

VPX White Heat

VPX MD2 Meltdown


~

 

[bdcc]

Spot for sale. Reasonable offers only.

 

[Auslifter]

EVOL
VPX Sports Redline White Heat


i will leave this here LMAO

Driven Sports FRENZY - Aussie Gym Junkies

 

[rob112]

It's all about the Benjamin's baby

-Sean Puff Daddy poppa diddy pop combs

Makes me wonder if any current users of all these products have had sides to this point.

 

[NO_HYPE]

EVOL

edited - don't know how I missed it lol

VPX Sports Redline White Heat

Thanx. Was not aware.

i will leave this here LMAO

Driven Sports FRENZY - Aussie Gym Junkies

Thanks. I needed a little vomit in my mouth.

 

[Afi140]

Man gameday international version now has amp. So does ambush by recon nutrition. I actually liked the effects. However, I will forgo using at this point until more safety data is available.

 

[NO_HYPE]

Man gameday international version now has amp. So does ambush by recon nutrition.

Thanx. edited

 

[NO_HYPE]

I actually liked the effects. However, I will forgo using at this point until more safety data is available.

Yeah while AMP citrate may indeed acquire some ergogenic potential, and ultimately turn out to be safe.... I'm not gonna be taking this stuff anytime soon, but I'm thinking it shouldn't have much of a shelf-life anyways, once the FDA targets it's non-compliant status.

 

[Quadzilla99]

i will leave this here LMAO

Driven Sports FRENZY - Aussie Gym Junkies

I literally lol'd when that OP said his sweet spot with Craze was 3 scoops

 

[NO_HYPE]

Craze 3 scoops

 

[NO_HYPE]

Makes me wonder if any current users of all these products have had sides to this point.

Hopefully we'll get some feedback sooner than later.

I've heard it's efficacy is a mixed bag - seems like there's a lot of interindividual variables when it comes to the effects elicited.

 

[jewgold]

I was wanting to try amp but now I think I'll hold off.

 

[NO_HYPE]

can react vigorously with oxidizing materials.

Sounds like a good reason to ditch the AMP citrate & potassium nitrate stack. Hopefully these two won't be combined, or if they are... that there's no adverse reactions.

 

[xLGx]

Good to see you around, No Hype. AMP really took over these last few months. Admittedly, I enjoy the effects but it is nowhere near what DMAA was like. Continual use builds up a tolerance very quickly and it's definitely not worth jeopardizing your health over should there be any safety concerns.

 

[NO_HYPE]

Good to see you around, No Hype. AMP really took over these last few months. Admittedly, I enjoy the effects but it is nowhere near what DMAA was like. Continual use builds up a tolerance very quickly and it's definitely not worth jeopardizing your health over should there be any safety concerns.

Thank you for the feedback. Glad to hear it hasn't elicited a bunch of adverse reactions in the anecdotal feedback thus far.

 

[NO_HYPE]

I enjoy the effects

Have you dosed this stuff with nitrates?

 

[SNOman]

Have you dosed this stuff with nitrates?

I have(Ampitropin + potassium nitrate or Powershock) ..no issues

 

[NO_HYPE]

I have(Ampitropin + potassium nitrate or Powershock) ..no issues

More power to ya. Hopefully it stays that way.

 

[xLGx]

Have you dosed this stuff with nitrates?

No sir. I was using 2 scoops Genomyx EVOL with ALCAR. Never threw KNO3 into the mix.

 

[NO_HYPE]

No sir. I was using 2 scoops Genomyx EVOL with ALCAR. Never threw KNO3 into the mix.

cool thanx

 

[mr.cooper69]

In the end, it won't matter. Dmaa "analogues," even the compliant ones, will be removed by the FDA unless present in an extract. Which this can never be, in sufficient quantities. It's the same reason PA had to take out the dmaa analogue in the new clearshot

 

[NO_HYPE]

It's the same reason PA had to take out the dmaa analogue in the new clearshot

I wonder if Patrick was asked to remove it, or if he pulled it willingly. Was the new clearshot released prior to, or after AMP citrate?

Either way though, the fact that this stuff is caustic and may negatively react to oxidizing agents like potassium nitrate is what bothers me in the absence of safety data.

 

[Afi140]

I wonder if Patrick was asked to remove it, or if he pulled it willingly. Was the new clearshot released prior to, or after AMP citrate? Either way though, the fact that this stuff is caustic and can negatively react to oxidizing agents like potassium nitrate is what bothers me in the absence of safety data.

Yes prior iirc. I also remember someone saying he was forced to pull it. He only did one run I believe.

 

[R1balla]

It's all about the Benjamin's baby

-Sean Puff Daddy poppa diddy pop combs

Makes me wonder if any current users of all these products have had sides to this point.

I dont

 

[NO_HYPE]

Makes me wonder if any current users of all these products have had sides to this point.

I'm actually curious as to the feedback from those who've been running AMP regularly as a standalone, as one could only imagine that it's getting pixie-dusted into most of the other proprietary blends. I'm assuming Genomyx's 150 mg per-cap is the highest dose, but I dunno.

 

[tin gorilla]

Little bit of Pouchong never hurt anybody.

 

[NO_HYPE]

Little bit of Pouchong never hurt anybody.

Cool. If this all pans out.... I might have to start huffing tea aromas before I hit the gym.

 

[Auslifter]

Have you dosed this stuff with nitrates?

I have used amp citrate caps with katana

and bad feels were had.. avoid with nitrates/10. craze use to go well with nitrates though.

 

[ddfox]

Cool. If this all pans out.... I might have to start huffing tea aromas before I hit the gym.

Or maybe they can make it into one of those obnoxious e cigs.

 

[3clipseGT]

What is the issue of using this stuff with nitrates? Can someone link me to the thread or maybe some cliffs?

Thanks bros.

Also I dont think Pat was forced to pull it but I could be wrong.

 

[NO_HYPE]

I have used amp citrate caps with katana

and bad feels were had.. avoid with nitrates/10.

Could you elaborate? What were your symptoms? How was your breathing/heart rate?

Did you dose them concomitantly or further apart?

 

[NO_HYPE]

Can someone link me to the thread or maybe some cliffs?

Your posting in the thread lol.

 

[NO_HYPE]

What is the issue of using this stuff with nitrates?

A possible negative physicochemical interaction. The MSDS states that AMP citrate can react vigorously with oxidizing materials, and potassium nitrate is an oxidizing agent. Since AMP citrate is a caustic compound, I would think there's a [potential] for mucous membrane damage when combined with PN, but I dunno.

 

[3clipseGT]

Your posting in the thread lol.

Aahhh mistook the post then lol.

Thanks for the info too.

 

[R1balla]

I've been on it with no problems but after reading this thread I kinda wanna stop

 

[Cheranine]

I use evol once a week and 2 caps of ampitropin daily. No sides. Still enjoy the stim and mood buzz even after 3 weeks of use, however still cautions. Thanks for the heads up NH.

 

[Auslifter]

Could you elaborate? What were your symptoms? How was your breathing/heart rate?

Did you dose them concomitantly or further apart?

i thought i had the cheesing effect or something similar, kind of like hypertension but i was fine.. every time i did a set i felt like ****, i was spitting into a towel heaps and chugging water.. was really worried actually. i threw my tub out when i got home srs. and i was getting really annoyed at everyone around me, all these retards and middle aged bogan men, and potatos in my way and distracting me doing frog leaps and stupid ****, talking like its a star bucks made everything even worse, which increased anxiety build up. my hands were ****ed they kept on going light pinkish or red kind of colour, it was extremely annoying, i managed to get a good workout luckily. but it really ruined me from pushing myself.

as for breathing, after one set it got pretty bad i actually thought i was going to die lol. for a few seconds i couldn't even breathe. so i stopped training and went and sat down in the gym's cafe, and relaxed. then after doing 30mins of light MISS Cardio on the cross trainer i felt much better and it went away.

the same issue happened when i used frenzy once (threw both, amp caps and frenzy away), but the time i used 1 scoop alone with nothing else, i was fine. but using it along side some betaine nitrate caps the problem happened again.

using co-q10, and nimbus cadence. to if that might have interactions. i also do cardio everyday MISS 5 sessions and 1 HIIT of Windgates, and my cardio is really good if that helps give you info.

 

[NO_HYPE]

i thought i had the cheesing effect or something similar, kind of like hypertension but i was fine.. every time i did a set i felt like ****, i was spitting into a towel heaps and chugging water.. was really worried actually. i threw my tub out when i got home srs. and i was getting really annoyed at everyone around me, all these retards and middle aged bogan men, and potatos in my way and distracting me doing frog leaps and stupid ****, talking like its a star bucks made everything even worse, which increased anxiety build up. my hands were ****ed they kept on going light pinkish or red kind of colour, it was extremely annoying, i managed to get a good workout luckily. but it really ruined me from pushing myself.

as for breathing, after one set it got pretty bad i actually thought i was going to die lol. for a few seconds i couldn't even breathe. so i stopped training and went and sat down in the gym's cafe, and relaxed. then after doing 30mins of light MISS Cardio on the cross trainer i felt much better and it went away.

the same issue happened when i used frenzy once (threw both, amp caps and frenzy away), but the time i used 1 scoop alone with nothing else, i was fine. but using it along side some betaine nitrate caps the problem happened again.

using co-q10, and nimbus cadence. to if that might have interactions. i also do cardio everyday MISS 5 sessions and 1 HIIT of Windgates, and my cardio is really good if that helps give you info.

Wow. Talk about an adverse reaction. You're lucky you didn't end up in the ER [although that's where you should have been].

Did you at least report your symptoms to Genomyx & Driven Sports?

It's instances like this where adverse event reporting can be very helpful to others, as I can only imagine that there's no warnings whatsoever regarding the caustic/oxidative nature of AMP citrate - especially when combined with nitrates.

Thank you for the response.

Hopefully this won't be a reoccurring issue before the feds yank this stuff.

 

[Auslifter]

Wow. Talk about an adverse reaction. You're lucky you didn't end up in the ER [although that's where you should have been].

Did you at least report your symptoms to Genomyx & Driven Sports?

It's instances like this where adverse event reporting can be very helpful to others, as I can only imagine that there's no warnings whatsoever regarding the caustic/oxidative nature of AMP citrate - especially when combined with nitrates.

Thank you for the response.

Hopefully this won't be a reoccurring issue before the feds yank this stuff.

well i feel much better now. and will never be touching another ds pre workout again. it wasn't super bad, but yeah it was very
unpleasant. people need to know about using other supplements with one another, and if there's no warnings about a stackable pump product to go alongside the pre workout containing AMP, the average joe would probably die or suffocate. i don't want to imagine the people who buy pre workouts for party use, and drink them with booze. there are allot of idiots out there who would suffer from improper use, as well as those who decide to #yoloswag 4 scoops with some nitrates. not to mention those who might have unknown Asthma issues

 

[Jakey]

I've been using AMP for a while and haven't noticed any adverse effects yet. Thanks for the heads up, will keep my eye out.

 

[NO_HYPE]

the same issue happened when i used frenzy once (threw both, amp caps and frenzy away), but the time i used 1 scoop alone with nothing else, i was fine. but using it along side some betaine nitrate caps the problem happened again.

highlighted for emphasis

 

[NO_HYPE]

using co-q10, and nimbus cadence. to if that might have interactions.

Nope, shouldn't be any interactions with those.

 

[haiz69]

Solid posting No-Hype.

I have admittedly used a few different AMP-Citrate Products. Tolerance certainly builds quickly. I haven't had the occasion to use it with Nitrates and/or Betaine and will probably refrain from doing so base don these reports. I do take betaine daily, but have been spreading it throughout the day and not at the same time as a dose of AMP-Citrate would be.

I did look into the toxicology numbers, which are certainly a good place to start. As I'm sure you know, these just don't give as much information as we would want, although I'm sure your knowledge of chemical structure/pharmacokinetics allows you to be a bit more discerning that I. The sad part is that it certainly has the POTENTIAL to be completely fine, but we just don't know because not a single company has done a study on it.

 

[Hydra]

So I'm assuming based on the 17 or so different 1,3-dimethylbutylamine [aka AMP citrate aka 4-methyl-2-Pentanamine] products currently available, that from a company profit standpoint.... it's just better to turn and burn and say screw the FDA, compliance and the lack of safety data.

I personally don't want to see anyone's health jeopardized with long-term use of AMP citrate, and I think this complete lack of safety data really needs to be addressed, as the number of products are rising by the month.

The MSDS data is all there is. There's nothing else published that I could find. Nonetheless, the data indicates that AMP citrate is caustic & moderately toxic by ingestion [at what dose we don't know]. Another MSDS indicated that the compound can be extremely destructive to mucous membranes and the upper respiratory tract.

From what I understand, LeCheek Nutrition was responsible for introducing the compound to the market, as well as the whole "extracted from the aroma of Pouchong tea" nonsense - which every company is now parroting.

Why didn't LeCheek conduct some safety data prior to release [or any company who decides to provide AMP citrate to their consumers for that matter]?



CAS No.:108-09-8
Product Name : 4-methyl-2-Pentanamine
Molecular Formula : C6H15 N
Molecular Weight : 101.22
EINECS : 203-549-6
Density : 0.717
Boiling Point : 108-110 ºC
Flash Point : 12 ºC
Risk Codes : R11;R20/21/22;R34
Appearance : white or almost white powder
Transport Information : UN 2379
Hazard Symbols :
Safety : Poison by intravenous route. Moderately toxic by ingestion and skin contact. Mildly toxic by inhalation. A dangerous fire and explosion hazard when exposed to heat or flame; can react vigorously with oxidizing materials. To fight fire, use foam, CO2, dry chemical. When heated to decomposition it emits toxic fumes of NOx.

How do you know that no company has conducted any safety studies? Companies aren't required to post, show or email safety data to No Hype or the forums when they release a product. There are all types of ingredients that don't have safety data provided for them. I have never seen a safety study on creatine nitrate but I still use it. It isn't naturally found in food as creatine nitrate, it isn't extracted from anything as creatine nitrate. I haven't looked but I bet the MSDS sheets on nitrous gas doesn't look that good either but I have bought and used it anyway.

Hopefully we'll get some feedback sooner than later.

I've heard it's efficacy is a mixed bag - seems like there's a lot of interindividual variables when it comes to the effects elicited.

Feed back has been posted but none of it is bad which is really what you are looking for. You aren't interested in good feedback.

Here is some more good feedback, I got my fruit punch Frenzy last week and used 1.5 scoops for my workouts this weekend. Saturday I had one of the best workouts of my life setting 2 new PRs. I definitely like it better on the first 4 doses then I did Craze. I didn't get much stim from Craze but with Frenzy I do. No sides, no heart burn, no crash just a great workout. It definitely feels different then EVOL does but considering I have used EVOL through 2 bottles and haven't had any issues or drop off in effect I'll definitely keep using AMP Citrate and Frenzy.

In the end, it won't matter. Dmaa "analogues," even the compliant ones, will be removed by the FDA unless present in an extract. Which this can never be, in sufficient quantities. It's the same reason PA had to take out the dmaa analogue in the new clearshot

Or maybe he had to take it out because there is no proof it was natural, like DMAA? Do you honestly believe that the new strychnine like stim he is using in Epharm Amp is extracted from a plant? He is using a synthetic ingredient of something that is found in a toxic plant.

A possible negative physicochemical interaction. The MSDS states that AMP citrate can react vigorously with oxidizing materials, and potassium nitrate is an oxidizing agent. Since AMP citrate is a caustic compound, I would think there's a [potential] for internal tissue damage when combined with PN, but I dunno.

Post the MSDS sheet that states AMP Citrate is caustic. Post the MSDS sheet that shows AMP Citrate is " extremely destructive to mucous membranes and the upper respiratory tract."

You can't because you don't have them. You are making assumptions with zero evidence about a powdered ingredient based on an MSDS sheet for a volatile liquid. You have no proof or evidence to suggest that characteristics of one would be the same as the other.

 

[Auslifter]

How do you know that no company has conducted any safety studies? Companies aren't required to post, show or email safety data to No Hype or the forums when they release a product. There are all types of ingredients that don't have safety data provided for them. I have never seen a safety study on creatine nitrate but I still use it. It isn't naturally found in food as creatine nitrate, it isn't extracted from anything as creatine nitrate. I haven't looked but I bet the MSDS sheets on nitrous gas doesn't look that good either but I have bought and used it anyway.

Feed back has been posted but none of it is bad which is really what you are looking for. You aren't interested in good feedback.

Here is some more good feedback, I got my fruit punch Frenzy last week and used 1.5 scoops for my workouts this weekend. Saturday I had one of the best workouts of my life setting 2 new PRs. I definitely like it better on the first 4 doses then I did Craze. I didn't get much stim from Craze but with Frenzy I do. No sides, no heart burn, no crash just a great workout. It definitely feels different then EVOL does but considering I have used EVOL through 2 bottles and haven't had any issues or drop off in effect I'll definitely keep using AMP Citrate and Frenzy.

Or maybe he had to take it out because there is no proof it was natural, like DMAA? Do you honestly believe that the new strychnine like stim he is using in Epharm Amp is extracted from a plant? He is using a synthetic ingredient of something that is found in a toxic plant.

Post the MSDS sheet that states AMP Citrate is caustic. Post the MSDS sheet that shows AMP Citrate is " extremely destructive to mucous membranes and the upper respiratory tract."

You can't because you don't have them. You are making assumptions with zero evidence about a powdered ingredient based on an MSDS sheet for a volatile liquid. You have no proof or evidence to suggest that characteristics of one would be the same as the other.

lol this was all i could think of when i was having issues breathing during training all i thought was i dun goofed no hype was right lmao abandongym.jpeg . i would rather them un ban craze and swap that for this **** feel safer taking that lol might be why i was spitting so much, and trying to bring up saliva. also people should be warned drinking frenzy, if they don't mix it up properly and drink it slowly, it could cause acid reflux, first time i had a scoop i downed it to fast.

on another note how dose amp interact with yohimbine or DAA? since i am on norcodrene, but i use only 1 cap if i decide to take a pwo on a training day. and have daa in the morning

 

[mr.cooper69]

Or maybe he had to take it out because there is no proof it was natural, like DMAA? Do you honestly believe that the new strychnine like stim he is using in Epharm Amp is extracted from a plant? He is using a synthetic ingredient of something that is found in a toxic plant.

My post wasn't speculation. That's why it was removed. And yes, my research on aconitum predates that of many people because it had several promising stimulants with low therapeutic indicies. So no, I don't think it's extracted from the plant, and I don't care. My point is that DMAA analogues are essentially "banned by default" now unless extracted

 

[NO_HYPE]

How do you know that no company has conducted any safety studies?

They would've been mentioned already. Nonetheless, anyone using AMP citrate in their lineup already knows it won't be around long enough for any safety studies to matter. Turn & burn baby.

 

[T-Bone]

People will convince themselves that anything is safe if they want to. They will just keep making up excuses in their mind. Ridiculous arguments comparing dietary supplements to alcohol and cigarettes aside.

 

[NO_HYPE]

There are all types of ingredients that don't have safety data provided for them. I have never seen a safety study on creatine nitrate but I still use it. It isn't naturally found in food as creatine nitrate, it isn't extracted from anything as creatine nitrate.

Yeah nice try. We already know the kinetics/dynamics of both creatine and the nitrate moiety.... we don't know chit about AMP citrate other than it's a caustic compound that can be moderately toxic upon ingestion, and can negatively interact with oxidizing agents.