Could your MultiVitamins be Killing You?

Thatguy0101

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I've read a fair few articles from doctors and other professionals regarding multivitamins from companies targeting the athletic person (google it you will find countless articles). What they have all said is if you're someone who works out a lot taking multi-vitaimins that give you the recommended daily intake only is all you need. Apparently taking vitamins with doses any higher than the recommended intake will actually ruin your health and cause havoc in your body as you're effectivily overdosing on vitamins.

What do you think on this? I think it makes sense and sounds logical that massive doses will cause side effects. Worrying that so many people take such high doses if it is actually bad for you.
 
Touey

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I've read a fair few articles from doctors and other professionals regarding multivitamins from companies targeting the athletic person (google it you will find countless articles). What they have all said is if you're someone who works out a lot taking multi-vitaimins that give you the recommended daily intake only is all you need. Apparently taking vitamins with doses any higher than the recommended intake will actually ruin your health and cause havoc in your body as you're effectivily overdosing on vitamins.What do you think on this? I think it makes sense and sounds logical that massive doses will cause side effects. Worrying that so many people take such high doses if it is actually bad for you.
If you are worried about this you could try a whole food multi and see how you get on Organic Vitamins - The Synergy Company
 
NattyForLife

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Even if you do take a multi that has exactly 100% of each vitamin, most likely you body is not going to absorb all of it.
 
mechka_grizli

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I've read a fair few articles from doctors and other professionals regarding multivitamins from companies targeting the athletic person (google it you will find countless articles). What they have all said is if you're someone who works out a lot taking multi-vitaimins that give you the recommended daily intake only is all you need. Apparently taking vitamins with doses any higher than the recommended intake will actually ruin your health and cause havoc in your body as you're effectivily overdosing on vitamins.

What do you think on this? I think it makes sense and sounds logical that massive doses will cause side effects. Worrying that so many people take such high doses if it is actually bad for you.
Your body is pretty damn good at getting rid of what it doesn't need. U would have to be actively trying to OD. The statement is flawed anyway. Doctors and nutritionist suggest higher calorie needs for someone is active, let alone who lifts the way we do. If a higher cal diet is suggested one can assume that we need more than the daily intake of vitamin and minerals than the person who does jack$h*t all day
 
HIT4ME

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I think this is a wide-reaching statement. Chances are you can take all the Vitamin C you want and you will never have a problem. If you are taking 5 grams of potassium ever day, or 10,000X what you need of vitamin E over long periods of time...then yeah, you may have issues. Unless you are taking 2-3 multi-vitamin packs every day and eating extremely healthy on top of that (meaning you are already getting plenty of micros from your food intake), you are probably well within the "OK" range if you are healthy and very active. If you are taking a single multi-vitamin "pill" every day I'd bet it's almost impossible for you to OD on most of the nutrients in that pill.

As was mentioned, absorption is an issue and your absorption will be much lower with a pill than with food. The other issue is if you are taking all of your vitamins at once, you will not absorb nearly as much as if you took the same amount spread over time.

Can you abuse a vitamin? Yeah. If you're taking a handful of pills every day and don't know what you're taking or what it does, that may not be the smartest idea - regardless of if it is a vitamin, drug, or whatever. But most people eat McDonalds and don't have any clue what is in it either. I think the bigger issue is not knowing what you're doing :)
 

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Of note, high vitamin E doses, more than 400mcg folate, 1g+ calcium, and 10,000 IU+ of Vitamin A are all associated with increased mortality when supplemented. Steer clear of multis with such high doses. Moderation is key
 
Johnston

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Well I'd say that not all vitamins are equal for a start. And it also makes a difference on the specific source, as some are better than others. Personally, I opt for a copper free multi, as I've had some skin issues before which cleared up after I cut this out. Once you add in your average multi-vitamin, Copper is very easy to have too much of with the kind of diets most of us are probably consuming.

Generally speaking though, you'll find most properly educated experts on this subject will say multis are worth it, as even with the best will in the world it's very hard to hit 100% RDA of everything you need with food alone, especially with the demands physically active people put on their bodies. It pays to do your own research though as there are some very bad multi vitamin products on the market and it doesn't seem to be remotely regulated.

Not everyone will have the same deficiencies either, so you need to find a product that's right for YOU, not just take the one your friend recommends or is the number 1 seller on Amazon. There is no one size fits all product here. Age factors in to this as well of course, as the older we get the more we need of certain vitamins.
 

kissdadookie

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I use a fermented whole foods multi. I highly doubt that it is going to ever negatively affect my health especially when the nutrients in them are in reasonable amounts plus they are standardized from fermentation of the whole foods ingredients.

Yes, it sounds like a bunch of hooey, but it makes my stomach feel tamed and there's a good dose of veggies and mushrooms in them. :p
 
HIT4ME

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Well I'd say that not all vitamins are equal for a start. And it also makes a difference on the specific source, as some are better than others. Personally, I opt for a copper free multi, as I've had some skin issues before which cleared up after I cut this out. Once you add in your average multi-vitamin, Copper is very easy to have too much of with the kind of diets most of us are probably consuming.

Generally speaking though, you'll find most properly educated experts on this subject will say multis are worth it, as even with the best will in the world it's very hard to hit 100% RDA of everything you need with food alone, especially with the demands physically active people put on their bodies. It pays to do your own research though as there are some very bad multi vitamin products on the market and it doesn't seem to be remotely regulated.

Not everyone will have the same deficiencies either, so you need to find a product that's right for YOU, not just take the one your friend recommends or is the number 1 seller on Amazon. There is no one size fits all product here. Age factors in to this as well of course, as the older we get the more we need of certain vitamins.
I don't necessarily buy into the "right for you" approach. A multi-vitamin is a shot-gun insurance policy, not a targeted solution to a problem, in most cases. Your body will excrete what it doesn't need. The idea is to have enough of everything that your body can take what it needs.

This is like the expensive "custom" vitamins that test your blood or your hair and say, "You are low in Vitamin B, so we will customize a supplement to correct that". Well, who cares? If a multi has enough vitamin B, it will correct it anyway, plus you'll get everything else, excrete what you don't need and you will save all the cost and hassle of hair or blood tests, etc. and be able to buy a cheaper, off-the-shelf product and not some high-tech custom formula that "works for you".

Not to mention, your body is in constant flux and being low in vitamin e today may not mean that you are always low in vitamin e, and if you are it probably means there is an absorption issue or something - and then you get into specifics.

I'm not saying tests are worthless, but people put too much thought into their multi vitamin. People live all day everyday who never take one, people do the same when they are OD'ing on them. Just keep it simple and go for quality.
 

tristen22001

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I use a fermented whole foods multi. I highly doubt that it is going to ever negatively affect my health especially when the nutrients in them are in reasonable amounts plus they are standardized from fermentation of the whole foods ingredients.

Yes, it sounds like a bunch of hooey, but it makes my stomach feel tamed and there's a good dose of veggies and mushrooms in them. :p
Just out of curiousity, which one do you use? I've been thinking about switching to a whole foods multivitamin.
 

Thatguy0101

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Your body is pretty damn good at getting rid of what it doesn't need. U would have to be actively trying to OD. The statement is flawed anyway. Doctors and nutritionist suggest higher calorie needs for someone is active, let alone who lifts the way we do. If a higher cal diet is suggested one can assume that we need more than the daily intake of vitamin and minerals than the person who does jack$h*t all day
That's one thing mentioned in articles. Your body doesn't flush out all the excess vitamins. As quoted from this article from the BBC:

Vitamin A is linked to increasing lung cancer in smokers. Excess zinc is linked to reduced immune function. Long-term excessive intake of manganese is linked to muscle and nerve disorders in older people. Niacin in excess has been linked to cell damage. And so on.

And it gets more complicated still when you start mixing everything up in one tablet. For example, different minerals compete for absorption. If you take large quantities of calcium you won't be able to absorb your iron. If you take large quantities of iron you won't be able to absorb zinc. If you take vitamin C you'll reduce your copper level.

Source: BBC news article. Unable to post link as forum says my post count not high enough for links but google multivitamin dangers and you will see it.
 

kissdadookie

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That's one thing mentioned in articles. Your body doesn't flush out all the excess vitamins. As quoted from this article from the BBC:

Source: BBC news article. Unable to post link as forum says my post count not high enough for links but google multivitamin dangers and you will see it.
The solution to this is one should have a HEALTHY lifestyle in CONJUNCTION to supplementing with a multi. They also have many different quality age range and gender specific multi's on the market that accounts for some of these findings in these studies.

Lastly, the higher quality multi-v's are not giving you super doses of certain nutrients just because 1) it's the flavour of the month and/or 2) it's a cheap raw (such as B vitamins).
 
Touey

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Generally speaking though, you'll find most properly educated experts on this subject will say multis are worth it, as even with the best will in the world it's very hard to hit 100% RDA of everything you need with food alone, especially with the demands physically active people put on their bodies. It pays to do your own research though as there are some very bad multi vitamin products on the market and it doesn't seem to be remotely regulated.
I'd have to disagree with this generalization. I think any properly educated expert will tell you there's insufficient high-quality evidence to make a definitive conclusion, one way or another.

A bit old but relevant article in the news 3 reasons to reconsider vitamin pills - The Globe and Mail
 
Touey

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why hello there, what might your name be. I like your cap btw
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A few things to consider --

1. Multivitamins are a multi-billion dollar industry, and the main companies profiting from this industry are the same "big pharma" companies who many here would decry for encouraging the "take a magic pill and everything is OK" mentality. To test this assertion -- don't look at YOUR vitamin supplement. Go to a store and look at who makes all the big sellers. Consider the types of customer those companies & their advertisements appeal to. Are you that type of person? If not, you have to ask yourself why you're still taking a multivitamin.

2. Generally speaking, multi-vitamins, in just about every single study I've ever seen, have proven themselves to be close to useless. Absorption can be too poor with some vitamins, too high with others -- all in the same pill!

And yes, too high DOES matter -- your body does not instantly, magically balance itself to never have too much of anything. Even in the cases where having high vitamin levels does not equal toxicity, having high vitamin levels can be anywhere from useless to harmful.

Do a search on "gene expression and vitamin doses." The significant majority of the research is leaning towards the idea that many if not most vitamins work through gene expression -- that is, they actually signal your genes to start working in a certain fashion. In these studies, too much of a vitamin can actually reverse gene expression.

In addition, vitamins and minerals can often aid in regulating each other, so when you're getting too much of one and not enough of another, that imbalance can influence your ability to properly metabolize & excrete other vitamins and minerals. I learned this the hard way by spending about two years of my life dealing with lead poisoning that led to all sorts of other imbalances (some of which I'm still re-balancing).

4. If any of you did have an imbalance (and yeah, they occur VERY frequently, especially among athletes and among people with tightly controlled diets), a modern nutritionist is not going to tell you, "just take a multi, your body will naturally balance itself." Instead, they would identify the actual imbalance, suggest dietary modification, and IF that failed, they would suggest a specific, targeted program to restore the balance. Taking a multi-vitamin is like taking all the medicines in the pharmacy instead of identifying which medicine you need.

And point 4 brings me to...how many of you guys actually get your blood & hair levels tested? If someone were considering starting a cycle, or were having issues with a cycle of gear, folks here would say, "Did you do your blood tests?"

Why is something as major as vitamin and mineral balance not given the same degree of respect?

Hair and blood tests aren't that expensive, especially considering that you might only have to do them once every year or two. You have to shop around for the right tests & a lab that isn't going to try to sell you their specific product line, but excellent labs do exist. I'm not going to suggest any in particular because I don't want to be accused of marketing -- besides there might be better ones out there than the ones I used, I don't want to limit anyone. But again, please consider my experiences -- if I had done a nutrient absorption & utilization test once every two years or so, I would have easily avoided a major health issue.

When you have nutrient imbalances (and like I said, they can be common with athletes especially those who have a limited range of food types...a situation sadly common among younger bodybuilders), it can keep you working at less than ideal, and the longer the imbalances exist, the longer they take to put back on track.

If you really care about this health stuff, just consider the merits of actually determining what treatments you need, instead of assuming one single badly packaged, poorly absorbed treatment is going to somehow magically cure everything, and just as magically self-regulate so you never get harmed by it.

The financial costs might be a LITTLE more in the short run, but will be a LOT less in the long run.
 
ELROCK

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I use a fermented whole foods multi. I highly doubt that it is going to ever negatively affect my health especially when the nutrients in them are in reasonable amounts plus they are standardized from fermentation of the whole foods ingredients. Yes, it sounds like a bunch of hooey, but it makes my stomach feel tamed and there's a good dose of veggies and mushrooms in them. :p
So do I, which one do you use?
 

kissdadookie

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So do I, which one do you use?
As noted earlier, I use GOL Living Multi Men's. I think I'm on my second bottle right now (towards end of the bottle). I really like it. I can take it with or without food. There's no crazy doses of nutrients. The thing is basically fermented and powdered food compressed into tablets. It has a pretty comprehensive blend but I particularly like the fact that they have a good mushrooms blend in it. It tastes like veggies :p
 
Touey

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putting synthetic vitamins & whole food formulations within the same boat is a narrow way of thinking among numerous other examples popping about here daily
 

kissdadookie

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putting synthetic vitamins & whole food formulations within the same boat is a narrow way of thinking among numerous other examples popping about here daily
I don't mind synthetic vitamins :D I just like all the extras in the multi I use, especially considering how my diet isn't very varied (I keep it consistent and convenient so that I don't have to think about it).
 
Touey

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very varied is the way to go kd:)
 

kissdadookie

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very varied is the way to go kd:)
Thus I'm a big fan of supplements with loads of varied phytonutrients in good doses :pAlong with my multi I also use 1 scoop of Perfect Food as well. I think I'm pretty well covered in terms of micronutrients tbh.
 

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What people forget is that those RDA are based off antiquated models. Almost everyone consumes more than 100% of teh RDA for Vitamin C.. naturally might I add as well.
 

kissdadookie

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What people forget is that those RDA are based off antiquated models. Almost everyone consumes more than 100% of teh RDA for Vitamin C.. naturally might I add as well.
Well, that's also due to processed foods companies liking to fortify their products with cheap vitamins :p
 
NattyForLife

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Of note, high vitamin E doses, 200mcg selenium or more, more than 400mcg folate, 1g+ calcium, and 10,000 IU+ of Vitamin A are all associated with increased mortality when supplemented. Steer clear of multis with such high doses. Moderation is key
So does this mean sweet potatoes or supplementing vitamins; vitamin A is what im asking about!
 
NattyForLife

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Seeing how most good vitamins uses carotenoids, I don't think going overboard with vitamin A is an issue unless you're eating way too much liver and what not.
Thats what i always thought. Meat vitamin A bad, vege Vitamin A good!
 
Jiigzz

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I find it funny that people are just skipping over some of the good posts ITT.

Its like people think the body just excretes what it doesnt need; if this were true, why do cases of water soluble vitamin toxicity exist?
 

kissdadookie

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I find it funny that people are just skipping over some of the good posts ITT.

Its like people think the body just excretes what it doesnt need; if this were true, why do cases of water soluble vitamin toxicity exist?
I don't think anybody is really trying to say that, but from looking around at the better multi's on the market, they really stay pretty far away from giving you too much of those vitamins. Heck, most of the better multi's to a layperson comparing labels, may lead them to think that these better multi's are underdosed since a lot of the nutrients are provided at much lower doses than the inferior products.
 
bioman

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Of note, high vitamin E doses, more than 400mcg folate, 1g+ calcium, and 10,000 IU+ of Vitamin A are all associated with increased mortality when supplemented. Steer clear of multis with such high doses. Moderation is key

So morbid for one so young...

I kid, I kid!

As to actual numbers of people harming themselves with vitamins to the point of direct toxicity...pretty low and generally it's a nutjob downing a bottle of iron or vitamin A per day. Children get iron toxicity fairly often due to "Flintstones" like candy vitamins..and poor supervision. There's been a big push in the last 10 years to remove iron from kids vits because of this.

Personally, I do not take a multi everyday. I keep one around for when I KNOW my diet is deficient like when I am bulking. All the protein consumption leaves little room for leafy greens...

As to indirect health problems due to vitamin supplement consumption..we will be chasing that biochemical butterfly for quite a while because there are more variables than Carter's has pills. Medical dietary studies often miss the boat because humans are crappy study subjects..ie they lie about what they eat or forget to list things.
 
Ape McGrapes

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Would it be more advisable to take a multi every other day?
 
Ape McGrapes

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No, use it daily as long as you use the right one for your needs
Eh, I havent used a multi in a couple years. I use some select vitamins though, like vit. D.
 

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Chances are you can take all the Vitamin C you want and you will never have a problem. If you are taking 5 grams of potassium ever day, or 10,000X what you need of vitamin E over long periods of time...then yeah, you may have issues.
I agree with most of your post but too much C will cause problems such as ureterolithiasis/nephrolithiasis and cause more acidotic conditions in certain stages of the kidney predisposing to improper excretion/reabsorption/secretion of other minerals; obviously leading to other problems. The risk can be decreased with proper water intake and as long as the increased levels are acute or subacute. Also I would recommend against messing with potassium too much for most people unless 1) physician's orders 2) you know your current serum potassium levels and properly understand GI/Renal/Cardio/Endocrine physiology.

Of note, high vitamin E doses, more than 400mcg folate, 1g+ calcium, and 10,000 IU+ of Vitamin A are all associated with increased mortality when supplemented. Steer clear of multis with such high doses. Moderation is key
Exactly. Any fat soluble vitamin has a propensity for building up in your fat stores and can lead to toxicity much quicker; especially in comparison with all other water soluble vitamins. The kidney does a great job at regulating mineral levels so most people taking a simple multivitamin will never have issues. With that being said, even water soluble vitamins can quickly generate toxicities, hemodynamic changes, dysrhythmias, and many other SE's can occur.

As always common sense, moderation, and physician guidance will prevent majority of issues; so just be smart.
 

F0urH0rsemen

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Would it be more advisable to take a multi every other day?
Yes taking a multi daily is completely fine; so taking one every other day would be fine as well. I recommend this for a lot of patients, mainly because it is more financially advantageous and every other day will still allow for adequate replenishment of nutrients you are low on. Not all are created equal so just find a good one through recommendations on here. I prefer Animal Pak and Orange Triad but there are many other great ones out there.
 
HIT4ME

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I agree with most of your post but too much C will cause problems such as ureterolithiasis/nephrolithiasis and cause more acidotic conditions in certain stages of the kidney predisposing to improper excretion/reabsorption/secretion of other minerals; obviously leading to other problems. The risk can be decreased with proper water intake and as long as the increased levels are acute or subacute. Also I would recommend against messing with potassium too much for most people unless 1) physician's orders 2) you know your current serum potassium levels and properly understand GI/Renal/Cardio/Endocrine physiology.



Exactly. Any fat soluble vitamin has a propensity for building up in your fat stores and can lead to toxicity much quicker; especially in comparison with all other water soluble vitamins. The kidney does a great job at regulating mineral levels so most people taking a simple multivitamin will never have issues. With that being said, even water soluble vitamins can quickly generate toxicities, hemodynamic changes, dysrhythmias, and many other SE's can occur.

As always common sense, moderation, and physician guidance will prevent majority of issues; so just be smart.
I am not exactly arguing here - because I could be wrong and you may be about to teach me some things - but how much Vitamin C would be necessary to cause this? I mean, I take anywhere from 3-8 grams/day. I just bought a KG of powder and I just make a gallon of crystal light, put a t-spoon (5-6 grams) into the gallon with 1 pack of crystal light and typically drink the gallon in 1 day, plus some other fluids. Sometimes I'll have a little more than 1 gallon.

My understanding is that even at 20 g/day you should be fine with Vit. C - which is kind of my point. I'm not saying you CANNOT OD on it, but most people would have to try pretty hard to do so....
 
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Of note, high vitamin E doses, more than 400mcg folate, 1g+ calcium, and 10,000 IU+ of Vitamin A are all associated with increased mortality when supplemented. Steer clear of multis with such high doses. Moderation is key
I would also be wary of Selenium.
 
NattyForLife

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Should i be worried about my Vitamin E intake if i take a multi that already has 100% of the recommended dietary intake and i drink a cup of almond milk a day, and also i get the majority of my fats from Almonds which are packed with vit E?

Edit- today i ingested 360% of vitamin E today!
 

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I would also be wary of Selenium.
Yeah I had that in the post initially but removed it because that study was done in normal volunteers. Selenium is one of the micronutrients that has increased demand in trained populations so that study wouldn't really cross-over. Good looking though!
 

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I am not exactly arguing here - because I could be wrong and you may be about to teach me some things - but how much Vitamin C would be necessary to cause this? I mean, I take anywhere from 3-8 grams/day. I just bought a KG of powder and I just make a gallon of crystal light, put a t-spoon (5-6 grams) into the gallon with 1 pack of crystal light and typically drink the gallon in 1 day, plus some other fluids. Sometimes I'll have a little more than 1 gallon.

My understanding is that even at 20 g/day you should be fine with Vit. C - which is kind of my point. I'm not saying you CANNOT OD on it, but most people would have to try pretty hard to do so....
The way in which you are taking it should be fine for you; as is evident with you having no SE's. Since you are spreading the entire daily dose over a "larger" time span with adequate amounts of water, your kidneys are most likely regulating the pH properly. It wouldn't hurt at all though to decrease the dose to 1-2g daily for a few weeks; more likely than not, you will not notice any negative effects. I didn't exactly expand on the mechanism behind high doses of Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) causing a propensity for uretero/nephrolithiasis, but the primary mechanism is again based on its effect of urine pH. Increased levels of Vitamin C lead to a decreased intratubular pH (acidifying the urine); long story short, many clinical studies have shown that higher levels of Vitamin C increase the risk of stone formation in calcium oxalate stone formers. With that being said many people would think that decreasing dietary calcium will help protect against this, but it is just the opposite. Other clinical studies show that dietary calcium supplementation actually aids in decreasing calcium oxalate stone formation; this is due to hormonal regulation changes that do not need delved into at this time.

Another topic of discussion I didn't mention earlier is that those with a propensity for stone formation should monitor their Vitamin D intake. For most people 2,000-5,000 IU's of Vitamin D daily are not an issue; however increased levels of Vitamin D will further promote stone formation in those with an already higher likelihood. Vitamin D supplementation effects on hormones leads to phosphate and calcium manipulation, regulation of natural balances occurs at different proportions than normal leading to the increased chance of stone formation.

Hopefully I have answered your question with some added information as well. Acute doses of Vitamin C at dramatically high levels as you suggested may be fine in a medically managed environment; however I would never recommend that. 1-2 grams Vitamin C daily is more than enough for proper regulation and innate or humoral immune support.
 

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