Laxogenin 5a-hydroxy (str3ngth)

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Sure but if you take the work out of it, it eliminates the incentive to work.
    Of course, but there's also a lot of minformation out there (*cough* men's fitness and muscular development).

    I gave him the outline that I wish someone would've given me when I was screwing up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Engineer View Post
    We're all here to help.

    First, get your bodyfat checked either through a bodpod test or calipers (the more points, the more accurate). Then get a scale.
    Second, use an online calorie tracker. Myfitnesspal is the best in this regard. Figure out your TDEE and then increase it SLOWLY (this means adding 10-20 calories PER WEEK). If you find yourself wanting to speed it up, at most increase by another 50. A lot of guys can bulk at 2800-3600 cals, and some need 4500. It's all about finding what works for you. But make sure to do this slowly
    Third, eat the right food sources. MAKE SURE TO GET ENOUGH SATURATED FATS. I can't stress this enough. Eat a piece of steak and potatoes every night if you have to.
    Fourth, be realistic with your goals. If you're not on anabolics or something less hardcore (like Anabeta) you will AT MOST gain 1-3lbs of LEAN MASS per month. Lean mass = pure muscle. We're not talking muscle and fat. Sure, it's possible to gain 10-15 pounds in a month. But that will mostly be fat. Believe me, I've done it. Plus it wrecks havoc on your thyroid.
    Fifth, get a good training program and stick with for AT LEAST 3-6 months. Layne Norton's PHAT or PHUL work great for mass. You can also go on a 3 day full body split. (I like that the most and have found that my body reacts quite well to this type of training). Also, make sure to incorporate Periodization. Google is your friend as to this regard.
    Sixth, understand that you will plateau. It sucks and happens to everyone.
    Seven, understand that supplements are only 5% of this equation. They're your boost... your edge. Other than that, they are not magic. And if you treat them like magic then you will be disappointed, despondent, and bitter towards supplements. They work, you just have to understand HOW they work and what they NEED to work.
    Eight, just keep lifting, bro.
    Nice , thanks for your help.
    Well , yea i do live with my mom , so she makes the food , but i eat steack everyday + fish in the evening with rice / vegetables , i don't drink sodas , just some orange juice sometimes with my proteins.
    i never tracked my calories , i think it's the main problem , but when i eat too much rice / pastas etc , i get fat really fast. , i don't think i eat enough to gain muscles.
    If i could get 1-3 lean muscles / month , it would be just perfect , but i don't think that i can do that after 5 years of training.
    I'm 69 kgs , i started at 53 , and i'm about 10-12% bf.
    i do take anabeta elite ^^, i gained 2 kg since february , don't know if it's because of my leg training ( my legs can be more muscle , i used to train only the up body part ) , my legs are bigger then before.
    For my training , i don't count the break times , should i ?
    I train 3-5 times / week , and everyday i go outside with friends doing dips/pull ups .
    Yea supplements are magic , i know that , but for exemple , PES alphamine is helping me losing fat , i feel it , and looks like i have more energy.

    Anyway , i'll do my best to keep gaining muscles , for 5 years of training , i don't look big , that's demotivating .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ephedraboy View Post
    Nice , thanks for your help.
    Well , yea i do live with my mom , so she makes the food , but i eat steack everyday + fish in the evening with rice / vegetables , i don't drink sodas , just some orange juice sometimes with my proteins.
    i never tracked my calories , i think it's the main problem , but when i eat too much rice / pastas etc , i get fat really fast. , i don't think i eat enough to gain muscles.
    If i could get 1-3 lean muscles / month , it would be just perfect , but i don't think that i can do that after 5 years of training.
    I'm 69 kgs , i started at 53 , and i'm about 10-12% bf.
    i do take anabeta elite ^^, i gained 2 kg since february , don't know if it's because of my leg training ( my legs can be more muscle , i used to train only the up body part ) , my legs are bigger then before.
    For my training , i don't count the break times , should i ?
    I train 3-5 times / week , and everyday i go outside with friends doing dips/pull ups .
    Yea supplements are magic , i know that , but for exemple , PES alphamine is helping me losing fat , i feel it , and looks like i have more energy.

    Anyway , i'll do my best to keep gaining muscles , for 5 years of training , i don't look big , that's demotivating .
    Just my 2 cents. Rather than going by scale weight, start a good powerlifting routine focusing on the big 3; squat, bench and deadlift. Instead of setting a goal to gain 1 to 3 pounds of muscle a month make it a priority to add 5 to 10 pounds onto your lifts every month. In one year you'll be lifting 60 to 100 pounds more than you're doing now and I guarantee you'll be significantly bigger. Dips and pullups are great but stop doing them everyday. And when you do them make sure they're weighted so you know you're getting stronger. Keep track of all your workouts so you know your numbers are going up. Once that's on track you're on your way to becoming a lot bigger without even trying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ephedraboy View Post
    I've been training for almost 5 years so i'm not new to it , and supplements do help , especially anabolics .
    I do have a good diet for a 21 yo guy , i do my best , and my training sessions are quite good too.
    I just can't progress , i've tried to change my exercices etc , eat more , eat less , but i gain only 1-2 kg of lean muscle in 1 year , but the first year i gained like 8-10

    duh, the training effect decreases as training experience increases, welcome to the conjugate system of block training my friend
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0hardorgohom View Post
    What the hell? Why don't you do your research before buying supplements then?

    Give it 2-3 more weeks and if it works and you like it, you can order more. If it doesn't work for you, don't buy more. It's that simple.

    I like your product over LGI's because it is more cost efficient, but purity is important and LGI has good reputation for producing reliable products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    I like your product over LGI's because it is more cost efficient, but purity is important and LGI has good reputation for producing reliable products.
    Okay, and so do we.

    Check out the logs popping up in the next following weeks regarding results on our products, this thread is about whether or not laxogenin works in a pct scenario, standalone scenario, or even works, not about purity, OL makes pure products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Labs View Post
    Okay, and so do we.

    Check out the logs popping up in the next following weeks regarding results on our products, this thread is about whether or not laxogenin works in a pct scenario, standalone scenario, or even works, not about purity, OL makes pure products.
    I wasn't accusing you of not making pure products/receiving impure raws, just noting LGI's good reputation. It wasn't meant to be a slight against you. I will keep an eye on the logs and maybe I will directly compare the results using both myself. I understand you want to defend your products but try to realize people are going to be critical basically no matter what you state. Its better to make friends on this forum than enemies. Im all for new brands making a name for themselves. Yes this thread is about if Laxogenin works, but shouldn't effectiveness be based on if your actually taking laxogenin, which has a horrendous track record of being impure/faked. I will take your word for it that str3ngth contains actual laxogenin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    I wasn't accusing you of not making pure products/receiving impure raws, just noting LGI's good reputation. It wasn't meant to be a slight against you. I will keep an eye on the logs and maybe I will directly compare the results using both myself. I understand you want to defend your products but try to realize people are going to be critical basically no matter what you state. Its better to make friends on this forum than enemies. Im all for new brands making a name for themselves. Yes this thread is about if Laxogenin works, but shouldn't effectiveness be based on if your actually taking laxogenin, which has a horrendous track record of being impure/faked. I will take your word for it that str3ngth contains actual laxogenin.
    Did not say you accused, just simply said what needed to be said. We will of course have to measure the short term benefits vs the long term benefits of any product before discontinuing. We have discontinued products in the past but there is a market for STR3NGTH currently so we will continue to support it. Actually the fake laxogenin is probably whats "working" or giving the impression of working in the short run because its usually spiked with something else, but we're here to discuss whether if real laxogenin provides benefits in a pct scenario, standalone, short term and long term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    I like your product over LGI's because it is more cost efficient, but purity is important and LGI has good reputation for producing reliable products.
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Labs View Post
    Okay, and so do we.

    Check out the logs popping up in the next following weeks regarding results on our products, this thread is about whether or not laxogenin works in a pct scenario, standalone scenario, or even works, not about purity, OL makes pure products.
    As far as PHs are concerned I think most like to see post production lab results...there have been too many companies knowingly and unknowingly putting out contaminated products or just plain bulk...labs will carry a LOT more weight than logs to start. I think the cost of this ingred is what is making people suspicious~~no one likes to throw away money

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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVitamin View Post
    I'm sorry, because I'd love to see this work as much as the next guy, but for a product that's been around since the mid to late 90's, the hype and overall conception of laxogenin just don't add up (for something that's suppose to elicit var-like results)

    Add to the fact that it seems impossible to source "real" laxogenin, just doesn't seem like a smart investment to me, especially when considering so many tried and true supplements out today that DO work..

    Not trying to knock OL or any other company putting this out (LGI has as well, and they're a trusted company in my books), but it just doesn't add up to me

    Again, I'd really love to see "real" laxogenin, and see it really work, but it doesn't appear it's really in the cards
    Ding ding
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    The funny thing is... laxogenin is "discovered " by an american scientist in 1996 . That is actually not true at all.almost All publications are from japan and china. And first time laxogenin was discovered (japan 1963). Pubmed is the proof
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    Tell us something we don't know broski
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danes View Post
    The funny thing is... laxogenin is "discovered " by an american scientist in 1996 . That is actually not true at all.almost All publications are from japan and china. And first time laxogenin was discovered (japan 1963). Pubmed is the proof
    Links to text, please?
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    [Laxogenin, a new steroidal sapogenin isolated from Smilax sieboldi Miq].

    AuthorsAKAHORI A,*et al.*Show allJournal

    Yakugaku Zasshi. 1963 May;83:557-8.*Article in Japanese.

    Affiliation

    PMID*14041495 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    LGI proved to bring a pure version of Laxogenin.
    Even had Jake test it for all forum trolls.
    The Secretabridge has had awesome reviews. Yes, it's an expensive ingredient.
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    I gonna stack it with PA (phosphatidic acid), HMB-FA and laxogenin
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    Interested on hearing others experiences with this product...
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    Anyone have a good source on how the steroidal version and more "Natty" version differ or am I way off track? All the sources I have seen seem more PH oriented but it says its natural right? I have just been confusing myself on this one lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMovement View Post
    Anyone have a good source on how the steroidal version and more "Natty" version differ or am I way off track? All the sources I have seen seem more PH oriented but it says its natural right? I have just been confusing myself on this one lol
    I heard that the Blackstone product is supposedly well dosed and legit. I haven't tried any of these products yet though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post

    I heard that the Blackstone product is supposedly well dosed and legit. I haven't tried any of these products yet though.
    But what separates the natural from the ProHormone version? Also if this isn't the thread for such convo a link to one would be nice as well
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    5ALaxo is a steroidal saponin. There is no PH version, however some companies place it in their PHs as a "boost." Str3ngth, DermaStr3ngth and Anogenin are simply 5ALaxo with no other ingredients. Whether or not this stuff works (biochemically) is up in the air. There are a few scant research papers, but no peer reviewed studies.

    I've only seen feedback from SecretABridge in which "subjects" report:
    -Better/more fluid joints
    -Some strength in the form of new PRs
    -Some leaning (but this could be the alleged cortisol reducing properties)

    PA had a thread about this way back: (3b,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol

    I'm interested in anecdotal feedback, but I will never waste money on this when there are such better options out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I heard that the Blackstone product is supposedly well dosed and legit. I haven't tried any of these products yet though.
    At 1.5g per bottle its hard to believe that their laxogenin is well dosed or legit. Iv'e heard of some ph like gains in the first week and that just screams cross contamination/spiked to me. Laxogenin orally does not sprout ph like gains. There was another company as well that produced laxogenin a year ago and people were comparing it to halodrol. The company also magically took it off the market for 6 months and just came back out with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMovement View Post
    But what separates the natural from the ProHormone version? Also if this isn't the thread for such convo a link to one would be nice as well
    Well, if the label is legit, it's a natural plant steroid rather than an actual PH like what we think of when thinking of PHs. It's a single ingredient product going by the label of Anogenin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Labs View Post
    At 1.5g per bottle its hard to believe that their laxogenin is well dosed or legit. Iv'e heard of some ph like gains in the first week and that just screams cross contamination/spiked to me. Laxogenin orally does not sprout ph like gains. There was another company as well that produced laxogenin a year ago and people were comparing it to halodrol. The company also magically took it off the market for 6 months and just came back out with it.
    I thought all you really needed was around 100 mg's of laxogenin for it to be effective. So that would equate to 1 bottle of the Anogenin lasting 15 days. As for claims of PH-like gains, people make these silly claims all the time, I don't place much weight in those claims, but I am always willing to give products a fair go to see if it does something or nothing. Haven't tried Anogenin or any laxogenin product yet though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Well, if the label is legit, it's a natural plant steroid rather than an actual PH like what we think of when thinking of PHs. It's a single ingredient product going by the label of Anogenin.



    I thought all you really needed was around 100 mg's of laxogenin for it to be effective. So that would equate to 1 bottle of the Anogenin lasting 15 days. As for claims of PH-like gains, people make these silly claims all the time, I don't place much weight in those claims, but I am always willing to give products a fair go to see if it does something or nothing. Haven't tried Anogenin or any laxogenin product yet though.
    You should apply to log for DermaSTRENGTH, great opportunity to try transdermal laxogenin. Laxogenin is best used between 100-200mg's per day as reported by our customer base.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Labs View Post
    You should apply to log for DermaSTRENGTH, great opportunity to try transdermal laxogenin. Laxogenin is best used between 100-200mg's per day as reported by our customer base.
    Sounds mighty tasty but alas I'm still running a product log ATM which will take another 6 weeks or so to complete. :P
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    Iron mag labs have it in their halodrol clone but I notice no difference in theirs vs other legit hdrol clones that don't.
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    Laxogenin is pretty new to me personally so I haven't done that thorough of legwork to look into it but I have seen numerous claims that most laxogenin products are not effective because they are bogus? I also seem to recall that it's a pretty expensive raw to source in the first place. Any general consensus on this? I only thus far had one person actually tell me over PM that the Blackstone product is super legit but I've never tried any laxo or Blackstone products and for all I know, it may be placebo or it may not be. Anybody else whom have had experience with various laxo products have input on this matter?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Labs View Post
    You should apply to log for DermaSTRENGTH, great opportunity to try transdermal laxogenin. Laxogenin is best used between 100-200mg's per day as reported by our customer base.

    I would be interested in the difference of trans vs oral laxogenin
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Laxogenin is pretty new to me personally so I haven't done that thorough of legwork to look into it but I have seen numerous claims that most laxogenin products are not effective because they are bogus? I also seem to recall that it's a pretty expensive raw to source in the first place. Any general consensus on this? I only thus far had one person actually tell me over PM that the Blackstone product is super legit but I've never tried any laxo or Blackstone products and for all I know, it may be placebo or it may not be. Anybody else whom have had experience with various laxo products have input on this matter?
    There is two laxogenin suppliers (who actually produce it) and we have access to both, as stated before I am getting another supplier to custom produce it as well. I am hearing the same things about their laxo that I heard about the company that had a tainted version, so you see it leads me to believe they are both spiked, I could be wrong though but seeing that LGI's and OL's produce the same sort of results we may have a pattern here.

    I have tested so many H-Drol raws as of late and may have finally found a presentable one but we will see, I am very picky when it comes to Quality Control and having access to options is a must.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Labs View Post
    There is two laxogenin suppliers (who actually produce it) and we have access to both, as stated before I am getting another supplier to custom produce it as well. I am hearing the same things about their laxo that I heard about the company that had a tainted version, so you see it leads me to believe they are both spiked, I could be wrong though but seeing that LGI's and OL's produce the same sort of results we may have a pattern here.

    I have tested so many H-Drol raws as of late and may have finally found a presentable one but we will see, I am very picky when it comes to Quality Control and having access to options is a must.
    Agreed.
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    That's for the added info
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    I was just looking at Str3ngth and DermaStr3ngth, I was pretty surprised at the huge price differential between Str3ngth and Anogenin. It's a $10 difference and you get double the amount with Str3ngth per bottle, how is this possible? Anybody tried both products that can make a compare and contrast? If I give this stuff a go, I would much prefer to go the more economic route, obviously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I was just looking at Str3ngth and DermaStr3ngth, I was pretty surprised at the huge price differential between Str3ngth and Anogenin. It's a $10 difference and you get double the amount with Str3ngth per bottle, how is this possible? Anybody tried both products that can make a compare and contrast? If I give this stuff a go, I would much prefer to go the more economic route, obviously.
    It's possible. You'd be surprised if you knew the real prices of raws of many supplements. They're not THAT expensive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0hardorgohom View Post
    It's possible. You'd be surprised if you knew the real prices of raws of many supplements. They're not THAT expensive.
    I can definitely believe it, but definitely not willing to buy a bottle of each and do a compare and contrast, lol. Hopefully someone out there has done that already so that I don't have to :P If not, hopefully someone will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I can definitely believe it, but definitely not willing to buy a bottle of each and do a compare and contrast, lol. Hopefully someone out there has done that already so that I don't have to :P If not, hopefully someone will.
    We publicly release lab results on our subforum, check it out. Our laxogenin products are a real deal. Not sure if we've already published results of lax but we'll definitely do it soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I was just looking at Str3ngth and DermaStr3ngth, I was pretty surprised at the huge price differential between Str3ngth and Anogenin. It's a $10 difference and you get double the amount with Str3ngth per bottle, how is this possible? Anybody tried both products that can make a compare and contrast? If I give this stuff a go, I would much prefer to go the more economic route, obviously.
    All of their products are severely overpriced, thats why.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Labs View Post
    All of their products are severely overpriced, thats why.
    Ah, that could be it, their stuff does appear to be very pricey.

    Quote Originally Posted by g0hardorgohom View Post
    We publicly release lab results on our subforum, check it out. Our laxogenin products are a real deal. Not sure if we've already published results of lax but we'll definitely do it soon.
    Lemme go check that chit out
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I was just looking at Str3ngth and DermaStr3ngth, I was pretty surprised at the huge price differential between Str3ngth and Anogenin. It's a $10 difference and you get double the amount with Str3ngth per bottle, how is this possible? Anybody tried both products that can make a compare and contrast? If I give this stuff a go, I would much prefer to go the more economic route, obviously.
    Because all of Blackstone Labs products are extremely pricey... They think very highly of their products. *not saying that's a bad thing, but makes it hard to stay competitive.
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    Damn... Y'all beat me to it. Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post

    I would be interested in the difference of trans vs oral laxogenin
    Interested in this as well. Any reason to think trans vs oral would be better?
  

  
 

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