Interesting DHEA Study

[XxCrisisxX]

Found this over at AL.

I came across this older study on the acute effects of high dose DHEA and was pretty impressed with the findings. Granted it was a small study but the things that really jumped out at me were the change in body comp and the lack of change most hormonal parameters. Thoughts?

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1988 Jan;66(1):57-61.
Dehydroepiandrosterone reduces serum low density lipoprotein levels and body fat but does not alter insulin sensitivity in normal men.

Nestler JE, Barlascini CO, Clore JN, Blackard WG.

Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Medical College of Virginia/Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond 23298.

To assess the effects of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on body fat mass, serum lipid levels, and tissue sensitivity to insulin, five normal men were given placebo and five normal men were given oral DHEA [1600 mg/day (554.7 mmol/day)] for 28 days in a randomized, double blind study. In the DHEA group serum DHEA-S levels rose 2.5- to 3.5-fold, and mean (+/- SEM) serum androstenedione rose from 4.3 +/- 0.6 to 8.6 +/- 1.2 nmol/L (P less than 0.004, by paired t test), but serum total testosterone, free testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, estradiol, and estrone levels did not change. In the DHEA group the mean percent body fat decreased by 31%, with no change in weight. This suggests that the reduction in fat mass was coupled with an increase in muscle mass. DHEA administration also resulted in a fall in mean serum total cholesterol concentration (4.82 +/- 0.21 vs. 4.48 +/- 0.29 nmol/L; P less than 0.05), which was due almost entirely to a fall of 7.5% in mean serum low density lipoprotein cholesterol (3.21 +/- 0.11 vs. 2.97 +/- 0.14 nmol/L; P less than 0.01). No changes in anthropometric parameters or serum lipid levels occurred in the placebo group. Tissue sensitivity to insulin, assessed by the hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp technique, did not change in either the placebo or DHEA groups. These results suggest that in normal men DHEA administration reduces body fat, increases muscle mass, and reduces serum low density lipoprotein cholesterol levels. Tissue sensitivity to insulin was unaffected by short term DHEA administration.

 

[lifted]

Finally, this is what I've been wanting to hear for a while now...some kind of proof that states using DHEA will not supress endogeneous levels. That's great to hear especially since I've been using it during my current PCT run as some here suggested. The bodyfat decrease and other pros are just a bonus now. Thanks for pulling this up...puts my mind at ease now.

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

Amen, I have used DHEA at 2-300mg's a day during PCT ever since I can remember, and I have never had a "negative" side effect. I do however think it keep s me a little more vascular just due to holding a lower BF%.

regards,
COTC

 

[lifted]

Amen, I have used DHEA at 2-300mg's a day during PCT ever since I can remember, and I have never had a "negative" side effect. I do however think it keep s me a little more vascular just due to holding a lower BF%.

regards,
COTC

That's good to know. Also, do you ever just take it normally as in while natural? Or only for PCT??

 

[Beowulf]

That's good to know. Also, do you ever just take it normally as in while natural? Or only for PCT??

Bump, I'm interested in taking it solo now and for PCT in the future.

 

[ericnb_98]

"oral DHEA [1600 mg/day "

That's a huge amount. I've been taking 75mg a day perhaps I should
bump it up especially during PCT.

 

[TheTom]

"serum total testosterone, free testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, estradiol, and estrone levels did not change."

at 1600mg a day for 28 days, you think there would of been SOME increase in Testosterone.

But there was none.

The fat loss and muscle mass increases, must be coming from something other than Test.

 

[bioman]

Based on some of the other studies someone else just posted it seems as if there is almost a nutrient partioning effect on the part of the DHEA or one of its analogues. It ramps up brown fat metabolism and decreases adipogenisis..with findings that it increases lbm it sounds like some interesting things are going on.

Looks like DHEA may have even more utility beyond PCT.

 

[TheTom]

Maybe androstenedione really is anabolic before conversion?

Levels of androstenedione doubled, while Testosterone stayed exactly the same. Which is pretty odd.

My guess is that when you get androstenedione from DHEA, it will only convert into Testosterone if it needs to. Never really taking you above your baseline levels, but not letting you drop below it, either.

So either androstenedione, before conversion, is the reason for the increased LBM. OR, having a consistent level of Testosterone, that never dips below baseline, is the reason.

Or something else entirely

I'm thinking it's a combination of both. In normal healthy men not supplementing with DHEA, testosterone levels fluctuate all the time. But when you add DHEA and get that big androstenedione increase (2x), your Testosterone is probably not fluctuating much, and staying pretty Optimized. That and androstenedione probably is anabolic on its own.

 

[TheTom]

I'm thinking DHEA coupled with some kind of mild Anti-Estrogen could take you beyond optimized Testosterone, into increased Testosterone territory.

Something like 200-300mg 60x0 a day and 200-400mg of DHEA a day. I don't think this would lead to any amazing changes in body composition, but I do think it would help with a lot of things.

Shortening recovery time
Maintaining more LBM on a cut
Speeding up fat loss
Adding more "quality" weight on a bulk
Gaining less fat on a bulk
Increasing mental well being

Also, doses taken early in the day. As Dr. D has said, you don't want to screw with your bodies release of Melatonin.

Anybody want to guinea pig?

 

[lifted]

Sounds like I'll be using regular DHEA instead of 7-KetoDHEA for now on when cutting in regards to cortisol, etc. I wonder if soemone could somehow mess around with it's structure like sldge has with 7keto and see if any additional positive properties could be had.

 

[Knowbull]

This was the first ph available, and I have used it extensively in the past. People forget how powerful this is, you can get gyno real fast with it, The brands are not equal if you are getting real pharm grade you dont need more than 30 to 50 mgs daily, all in one dose is best, at night, under your tongue

 

[TheTom]

Why at night? If you check some other DHEA posts, you'll notice Dr. D saying it can screw with your bodies natural production of Melatonin.

Of course I don't remember seeing any studies, could of been just a logical guess on his part.

 

[Knowbull]

It was rec. by the pharm company I purchased it from (10 years ago) to ingest it this way for greatest chance of test conversion, it worked for me, but like everything there is conflicting pro and con

 

[lifted]

At night time the body is already releasing it's own testosterone as this is when the biggest spike occurs throughout the day. So I'm kinda failing to see why it would have a better chance converting to test then when there is ample amounts at that time already??

That's something to think about though...

 

[TheTom]

I think the test conversion will depend more on genetics, than on the time of day.

and if you look at the study, you will see that even @1600mg a day, 28 days later there was no elevation in testosterone levels.

Only an elevation in androstenedione levels.

Like I said before though, you are probably still getting testosterone conversion, but only when you would normally dip below your baseline levels.

I think for younger males using DHEA, an anti-estrogen will be a must. Since you already have normal levels of estrogen, supplementing with DHEA could possibly take you above normal levels.

For older males it might not matter. Your estrogen levels are probably too low anyway. Since estrogen in males is derived from Testosterone and testosterone levels are lower in older males.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I thought dr. d said take it at night?

 

[Knowbull]

Like anything, there is ton of contrary and contradictory information on it. People have to decide what works for them according to their physiology, age, gender, somatotype, etc. just because I gained 20 lbs in a few months doesnt mean any one else would. It is mildly anabolic, and may have some value in general health, hence it didnt get banned and rightly so. It has helped many people in many different ways.

 

[TheTom]

This morning I took 300mg 60x0 and 400mg dhea with a High-Fat breakfast. Since I've read that DHEA is best absorbed when taken in a meal containing good amounts of healthy fat. Which is what I did.

Anyways... GEEEZASS!!!

Mentally
I've been having very intense feelings of Well Being ever since this mornings dose. It's about 6 hours later and the motivation to do things is rediculous. Anything, really.

I really doubt this is placebo effect. I have used a lot of different supplements in my 5-6 year bodybuilding stretch, I've got a pretty experienced gauge, when it comes to the placebo effect.

Physically
It is too early to judge what kind of effect this will have on body composition, since I haven't even done a workout yet. But if the euphoria and motivation stays, this stack is already a 10 in my book. It's hard for me to even sit down, I just want to go walk around outside, and thats definitely not me. :rofl:

Possibilities
I think the reason this is working so well, even on day 1, is that my natural DHEA levels are probably pretty fucked up. I've been experimenting with all kinds of AAS for about 3.5 years now, without proper PCT for the first half year or so.

EDIT: I forgot to say this is not PCT. I am experimenting with this stack, as a potential year-round testosterone aid. Since I have been contemplating for the last month or so about perm. quitting AAS.

 

[lifted]

I've been having a lot of stress at work and things lately and am still only 3.5 weeks out from begining PCT from a major cycle that I was on for awhile. During PC I always crash BIGTIME. I have to seriously eat around 6000+ cals just to maintain my gains say 65%...lol. It's horrible and I usually gain an enormous amount of fat while trying to do this. But so far taking only 50-100mg DHEA ed, I seem to be holding a lot less fat than normal while on PCT. And I know that my stress levels are through the roof which can't be helping things much. I'm gonna continue out with DHEA until week6 of total PCT. And then I'm going to quit because I keep hearing that it's wise to cycle the stuff....better safe than sorry. And plus I'll be able to give a comparision to to a total PCT regimen with vs. W/o.

 

[TheTom]

Hmmm. Weird thing happened day 2, kind of disappointing actually.

This time I didn't take my DHEA and 60x0 at the same time.

I took 400mg DHEA in the morning and got a decent headache. No real change in mood, just an annoying headache.

Took the 60x0 many hours later and it actually killed the headache I got from my morning DHEA dose. It also uplifted my mood similiar to yesterday, but not nearly as pronounced.

I'm thinking these two compounds might have some synergistic effects. So tomorrow I'm going to try taking them at the same time again, just like yesterday.

 

[lifted]

Hmmm. Weird thing happened day 2, kind of disappointing actually.

This time I didn't take my DHEA and 60x0 at the same time.

I took 400mg DHEA in the morning and got a decent headache. No real change in mood, just an annoying headache.

Took the 60x0 many hours later and it actually killed the headache I got from my morning DHEA dose. It also uplifted my mood similiar to yesterday, but not nearly as pronounced.

I'm thinking these two compounds might have some synergistic effects. So tomorrow I'm going to try taking them at the same time again, just like yesterday.

Sweet man, let us know.

 

[Alpha Dog]

I'm thinking DHEA coupled with some kind of mild Anti-Estrogen could take you beyond optimized Testosterone, into increased Testosterone territory.

Something like 200-300mg 60x0 a day and 200-400mg of DHEA a day. I don't think this would lead to any amazing changes in body composition, but I do think it would help with a lot of things.

Shortening recovery time
Maintaining more LBM on a cut
Speeding up fat loss
Adding more "quality" weight on a bulk
Gaining less fat on a bulk
Increasing mental well being

Also, doses taken early in the day. As Dr. D has said, you don't want to screw with your bodies release of Melatonin.

Anybody want to guinea pig?

Funny, I was also thinking about doing the same thing (for PCT), only Transdermal. I remember reading a study (that I can't seem to find) that showed that DHEA supplementation increased estrodiol approx 40% and test approx 10%. That was when I began to think about running it with a suicide inhibitor like 6-OXO. If you could wipe out some of the aramotase enzyme, then the conversion should theoretically tilt to the benefit of T production over E. Especially in a hypogonadal state, which is esentially what you are in after running a cycle.

However, DHEA is not very orally bioavailable. Neither is 6-OXO. So, I am going to run a combination of the two transdermal PCT (which begins in about a week and a half).

 

[TheTom]

Okay I think I can confirm that 60x0 and DHEA are majorly synergistic together!

I was really freakin' drowsy this morning, took me about 20 minutes to get out of bed.

Had a high-fat breakfast with 300mg 60x0 and 400mg dhea. Drowsiness completely disappears within 20 minutes of my dose.

Over the next hour I get a very euphoric, but aggressive feeling. Much like day 1, I feel highly motivated, but its different today. Its more aggressive. It even kind of altered my personality to being more egotistical/superior ... I don't know if this is a good thing, but it feels good , and besides I know that's not me.

My muscles seem to be more pumped without workout out, and my skin is MUCH more tan. I have gotten a few of comments about this. I live in Oregon and there's like ZERO sun right now and I don't go tanning. So it has to be this combination.

From here on out I will be taking 300mg 60x0 and 400mg dhea, with a high-fat breakfast.

 

[lifted]

THat's great man. If I start to up my dose more, do you think that I'll be okay with using nolva instead of 6-oxo with it? As I'm still running nolva anyways due to current PCT. Or would the excess estrogen conversion coming from BOTH the nolva and DHEA be detrimental? I know that nolva blocks E at the recptors but increases circulating E levels....I think, right? So that might be too much estrogen this way, correct?

 

[TheTom]

Nolva is much more cost effective than 60x0 actually. The 2 bottles of 60x0 I had to buy for this experiment, cost way too much for what you get. With Nolva your getting a much more potent estrogen blocker at a fraction of the price.

and I would just run the Nolva for about 5-7 more days than the DHEA.

That should be much more than enough time, for the excess estrogen coming from the DHEA, to clear.

and I wouldn't worry about Nolva increasing estrogen... It increases estrogen at the estrogen receptor, but its a competitive type of benign estrogen. Benign being the key word here.

 

[lifted]

Cool man, I see what you mean. I'm gonna try out 200mg tomorrow for the first time and see how I react to it first. If it's all good then I'll take it up some more. BTW, nutraplanet and custom both have bulk 6-OXO CHEAP.

 

[Alpha Dog]

THat's great man. If I start to up my dose more, do you think that I'll be okay with using nolva instead of 6-oxo with it?

The reason they may be synergistic is that 6-OXO, being a suicide inhibitor, is minimizing the aromatization of androstenedione to estrogen. Nolva, being an estrogen antagonist, shouldn't prevent the aromatization of dhea to androstenedione to estrogen.

 

[Alpha Dog]

One of the concerns I have running DHEA post cycle is that it may slow recovery.

Evidence that dehydroepiandrosterone, DHEA, directly inhibits GnRH gene expression in GT1-7 hypothalamic neurons.

Cui H, Lin SY, Belsham DD.

Department of Physiology, Toronto General Hospital Research Institute, University Health Network, University of Toronto, Medical Sciences Building 3247A, 1 King's College Circle, Toronto, ON, Canada M5S 1A8.

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) has been reported to have diverse effects on overall physiology, although its mechanism of action and specific receptor are not yet known. We have used the immortalized, clonal GT1-7 hypothalamic neurons to study DHEA effects on gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) gene expression. DHEA (10(-4) M) downregulates GnRH transcription by 39, 70 and 83% at 24, 36, and 48 h, respectively, while DHEA-sulphate had no effect. Hydroxyflutamide a specific androgen receptor (AR) antagonist, and cyproterone acetate or trilostane, both inhibitors of 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase/delta 4,5 isomerase, the rate-limiting enzyme for the conversion of DHEA to sex steroids, did not affect the ability of DHEA to downregulate GnRH gene expression. We found that GT1-7 cells did not express aromatase, thereby precluding conversion to estrogen. Analysis of [(14)C] DHEA metabolism by thin layer chromatography indicates that the main metabolites produced are 7 alpha- and 7 beta-hydroxy DHEA, and 7-oxo DHEA, although these steroids were not able to repress GnRH gene expression alone. Cell viability studies indicated that the transcriptional repression observed is not due to GT1-7 cell death. Interestingly, SV40 T-antigen mRNA levels, under the control of 2.3 kb of the rat GnRH gene 5' regulatory region, are also repressed by DHEA. Our studies indicate that DHEA has direct effects on GnRH transcription that appear to be unique from those observed after conversion to other steroidogenic compounds.

 

[TheTom]

:frustrate

Bow makes a good point, Lifted.

If you get the headache, without the Euphoria... you may want to go with a low dose AI, like .2mg of Letrozole with your morning DHEA dose.

 

[Alpha Dog]

:frustrate

Bow makes a good point, Lifted.

If you get the headache, without the Euphoria... you may want to go with a low dose AI, like .2mg of Letrozole with your morning DHEA dose.

Still though, you got me thinking. I am still goin to run the DHEA and 6-OXO transdermal for my next round of PCT, regardless of the study above (showing the DHEA may downregulate GnRH transcription). Besides, the study was done in Canada, and we all know Canadian's don't know a damn thing

 

[lifted]

Man, that sucks, thanks for that study bow....I tried searching for something like that the otehr day with no luck.

Thetom, what exactly d oyou mean if I get the headache? You mean from too much E associatted with High BP?? If so, I have been getting BP-type headaches latley. I think I'm gonna just try 200mg today and see how I react. I might as well be a ginny pig now...lol..I'll man up and continue on with the DHEA and then when I come back off everything, I'll of course report back. Good luck with your regimens guys....

 

[Knowbull]

subscribe

 

[TheTom]

I felt like experimenting today, so I took 600mg 60x0 and 800mg DHEA with breakfast.

My skin is still looking tanner, but my face has taken on a reddish tint. I look like I'm blushing :rofl: all the time.

My midsection looked much leaner today, I am about 5 weeks into a cut, and fat loss really halted at about week 3.5. This is the first time I could "see" differences, since then.

I gotta say, if your using DHEA for mood, the difference between 400mg-800mg was noticeable... but maybe not worth the money.

At 400mg I felt more aggressive, very motivated, have a better sense of well being, and feel more egotistical/confident.

At 800mg I feel like a teenage kid going through puberty. The aggression is WAY up today. I am trying to refrain myself from breaking into a wrestling match with my friends, because they are still thinking like 30 year olds and I'm thinking like a freakin' 15 year old right now.

Also, at 800mg the libido is a disaster. Normally when I check out girls I see their flaws first and their goods second. Right now all I'm seein is T&A this and T&A that. I am like Shallow Hal, right now.

The good thing though, is that I will be doing my first workout while on the 60x0/DHEA combo, tonight. I couldn't workout on the first couple days, cause my left bicep was really beat up and I didn't want to injure it. Its feeling fine now.

 

[Alpha Dog]

The good thing though, is that I will be doing my first workout while on the 60x0/DHEA combo, tonight. I couldn't workout on the first couple days, cause my left bicep was really beat up and I didn't want to injure it. Its feeling fine now.

Please note during your workout tonight if you experience any unsual vasolidating effect, like taking a NO supplement. It appears the DHEA may be a potent vasolidator.

............................................................................

Dehydroepiandrosterone stimulates nitric oxide release in vascular endothelial cells: evidence for a cell surface receptor.

Liu D, Dillon JS.

Division of Endocrinology, Department of Internal Medicine, Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City 52246, USA.

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) improves vascular function, but the mechanism of this effect is unclear. Since nitric oxide (NO) regulates vascular function, we hypothesized that DHEA affects the vasculature by increasing endothelial NO production. Physiological concentrations of DHEA stimulated NO release from intact bovine aortic endothelial cells (BAEC) within 5min. This effect was mediated by activation of endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) in BAEC and human umbilical vein endothelial cells (HUVEC). Dehydroepiandrosterone increased cyclic GMP (cGMP) levels in BAEC, consistent with its effect on NO production. Albumin-conjugated DHEA also stimulated NO release, suggesting that DHEA stimulates eNOS by a plasma membrane-initiated signal. Tamoxifen blocked estrogen-stimulated NO release from BAEC, but did not inhibit the DHEA effect. Pertussis toxin abolished the acute effect of DHEA on NO release. Dehydroepiandrosterone had no effect on intracellular calcium fluxes. However, inhibition of tyrosine kinases or the mitogen-activated protein (MAP) kinase kinase (MEK) blocked NO release and cGMP production in response to DHEA. These findings demonstrate that physiological concentrations of DHEA acutely increase NO release from intact vascular endothelial cells, by a plasma membrane-initiated mechanism. This action of DHEA is mediated by a steroid-specific, G-protein coupled receptor, which activates eNOS in both bovine and human cells. The release of NO is independent of intracellular calcium mobilization, but depends on tyrosine- and MAP kinases. This cellular mechanism may underlie some of the cardiovascular protective effects proposed for DHEA.


Dehydroepiandrosterone modulates endothelial nitric oxide synthesis via direct genomic and nongenomic mechanisms.

Simoncini T, Mannella P, Fornari L, Varone G, Caruso A, Genazzani AR.

Department of Reproductive Medicine and Child Development, Division of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Pisa, Pisa 56100, Italy. [email protected]

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its sulfate ester (DHEAS) are the major circulating steroid hormones in humans, and their levels progressively decline with age. Epidemiological studies suggest that DHEA/DHEAS concentrations may be inversely related to cardiovascular risk, but disagreement exists on this issue. Preliminary studies show that DHEA regulates vascular function, but few data have been published on the mechanisms. We show that DHEA administration to human endothelial cells triggers nitric oxide synthesis, due to enhanced expression and stabilization of endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS). Additionally, DHEA rapidly activates eNOS, through a nontranscriptional mechanism that depends on ERK1/2 MAPK, but not on phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase/Akt. DHEA is not converted to estrogens or androgens by endothelial cells, and its genomic and nongenomic effects are not blocked by antagonists of the estrogen, progesterone, glucocorticoid, or androgen receptors, suggesting that DHEA acts through a specific receptor. Oral DHEA administration to ovariectomized Wistar rats dose-dependently restores aortic eNOS levels and eNOS activity, confirming the effects of DHEA in vivo. Our present data suggest that DHEA may have direct genomic and nongenomic effects on the vascular wall that are not mediated by other steroid hormone receptors, leading to eNOS activation and induction.

 

[TheTom]

Wow! Had a doozy of a workout today. Improved strength and endurance was highly noticeable.

I did not notice any increase in vascularity, but then again, I have been low-carbing for 5 weeks, and that's not a very vascularity-friendly diet. Not to mention my bf% is still much higher than I want it.

I will drop down to 200mg DHEA for a few days dose. Because at the end of the 800mg day, I'm noticing a LOT of budding pimples. My face is 100% clear year-round, and this just doesn't feel right. So I'm going to drop the dosage until my face clears up a bit and push back up to 400mg.

At 400mg there's really not many sides to speak of, I don't think it was necessary to goto 800mg. But I was curious.

 

[lifted]

Usually during PCT, I get hit hard with acne. This usually then subsides during weeks 5-6. Today actually marks the end of week 4 for me and I've not really had any problems with the acne so far. BUT, it seems since I've upped my doseage within this last week from 50mg to 100mg and then again to 200mg, during the last few days, I'm starting to blow up with acne again too on my back and neck. For some reason the 50mg has helped limiting typical PC acne for myself, but it seems as though when I upped the dose to 100 then 200mg's, it made it worse. Hmmm.....

Okay, so I'm going to be running this dose until next Sunday which will mark the end of week 5. I'll continue to run 20mg nolva until the Sunday after that which will be the end of week 6. After that I'll be able to tell if I crash and burn, or walk out of this as a VERY succesful PCT.

I gained about 10-12lbs. with this last cycle of mine. It was 700mg Test weeks 1-14, and occasional spouts of PH's....lol...I just tried using up what I had left over from the ban. This much weight is actually pretty good for me. 260lbs. is totally pushing my genetic limits here so if I can gain 5-10lbs. from a cycle like this then I'm happy. SO far so good with PCT in those regards. SO far I've actually lost 10lbs. strength in various excercises, but arm and delt measurements actually increased since succession of the cycle. Other supps I'm on at this time is V12 Turbo, multi, C, NAC, nolva, powder.

 

[TheTom]

Took 200mg 60x0 and 200mg Dhea.

Did not notice much in terms of mood today, like with 400mg or 800mg. I still had feelings of increased motivation to do things, like weightlift, cardio, etc...

The budding pimples that were present last night, have subsided tonight. Skin isn't completely smooth, but a couple more days at 200mg should do the trick, I think. Then back to 400mg.

Other things of note, is that getting out of bed seems to be getting easier. Less fatigue this morning, than previous mornings. I normally lay around for 20-30 minutes after my alarm clock goes off, before getting out of bed. Today it was about 10 :lol:

 

[Beowulf]

A lot of people report acne from 6oxo. That could be the culprit.

 

[Bigfishy]

I am intersting in jumping on the DHEA banwagon but I am curious if their is any risk of low Natural DHEA level post cycle, if so does it rebound???

 

[Knowbull]

Go to lef.org and type in dhea there is good info there too, there is a ton of write up about this supp every where

 

[intv]

Sounds interesting - I'm thinking of a rebound/dhea stack. Anyone know if any of the board sponsors stock bulk DHEA?

 

[Dirty Ernie]

Took 200mg 60x0 and 200mg Dhea.

Did not notice much in terms of mood today, like with 400mg or 800mg. I still had feelings of increased motivation to do things, like weightlift, cardio, etc...

The budding pimples that were present last night, have subsided tonight. Skin isn't completely smooth, but a couple more days at 200mg should do the trick, I think. Then back to 400mg.

Other things of note, is that getting out of bed seems to be getting easier. Less fatigue this morning, than previous mornings. I normally lay around for 20-30 minutes after my alarm clock goes off, before getting out of bed. Today it was about 10 :lol:

Just curious Tom, are these doses of oxo/dhea once daily in the morning?

 

[lifted]

I have a funny feeling that I'm not too far from being recovered now. I had a great workout tonight with a 5lb. strength increase in all exercises done. But since I ended the cycle my strength went down a tad (10lbs.) so basically I only lost 5lbs. strength total. Creatine probably had say in this too though, so....

But most of all I just feel better. Usually I don't feel this recovered until week 7 or even 8-9 if it's a hardcore cycle. So far, so good. Will be taking last dose of DHEA in 4 more days. After that it's one more week of nolva and I should be good to do the natty thing for awhile.

 

[TheTom]

Yea dirty ernie, they are.

I haven't been posting any updates, because I'm just keeping steady at 200mg/200mg until all extra pimples and acne subsides. Thankfully, no new ones are forming. They appeared mid-late day, on the day I took 800mg DHEA. Which I won't be doing again. As for my current dosage. Increased motivation, and less drowsiness in the morning, are things worthy of note, at this dosage.

Extremely cost effective, if using it solely for those purposes.

 

[DR.D]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, one day when I stop juicing, I'll still use DHEA! Of course, I'll probably be about 90 by the time I stop juicing

Trust me guys, don't get greedy with the dose, unless you have a specific reason or your testing a theory of some kind short term. 50-600mg oral seems to be good for most applications. Also, don't take it at night! I've studied DHEA since I was 17 years old and can tell you, don't f with millions of years of evolution. Take mel at night and DHEA morning and/or noon. They are oppositional. These atricles aren't the greatest, but they bring up some of the points I'm trying to make:

http://www.anthropogeny.com/Sleep%20and%20SIDS.htm

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/eletters/110/6/e70

 

[lifted]

Well I quit taking the DHEA for a few days now. And let me tell you, ever since, I've been dragging AZZ in the morning shortly after I awake. This is leading me to believe that it MAY have postponed recovery for a bit...but cannot say for sure though w/o any bloodwork, so...I dunno. This is really the only thing I've noticed since discontinuing DHEA. Albeit, this is still a big problem for me....getting up rejuvenated vs. getting up half asleep either makes or breaks me for the rest of the day...I'm sure I don't have to tell you workinf guys that though.

Nolva is still being dosed at 30mg until this coming sunday. The next week will show me how this protocol has treated me. I've only been training one bodypart every 14 days or so. During PCT, I use a push/pull/leg split and I put 4-5 days rest in between EACH session. This does wonders for me in regards to keeping gains made and not OT'ing.

Will report back in another week....unless some have questions.

 

[AcuDoc]

After reading this thread I've tried the same protocol-200mg of 6-oxo and DHEA. I started with 50 mg of micronized pharma grade and then bumped it up. At 50mg, no change, at 100mg of DHEA also nothing, 150 mg ditto but today at 200mg I am feeling very good.

Increased lifts this AM, increased energy and motivation and on the drive to work my vision seemed "crisper" for the lack of a better word. Sleep, diet and training (FI's Russian Bench routine) has remained the same since starting the DHEA

I am going to drop the 6-oxo (intuitively I just don't like it) soon and see if there are any changes. I will stay at 200mg for a while and see if these effects are just placebo. I might throw in KS Attack and see what happens but not for at least a week or so.

 

[Alpha Dog]

I have been playing around with various transdermal dosages. It was difficult when I started to notice any type of psychological benefit due to the lingering effects of a cold I am fighting. However, I think I am finally over the cold and can subjectively comment on the effects. I am running at 80/100/300 mg's of 6-OXO, 7-OXO-DHEA, and DHEA ed respectively and am really enjoying the benefits. Energy is comparable to that of when I was running test/tren/sd. I am going to continue at those dosages for at least another week to see if it is placebo effect or otherwise. I have lost some LBM, but I think that was mostly the effects of the cold.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25175

 

[dmilhouse]

bump