- 03-01-2014, 09:25 PM
just do your research .. the government is not all ways right... and only cares about lining there greedy pockets...
The dangers of acetaminophen, especially in combination with alcohol, have been reported in the medical literature since the 1960s, although they were not always disclosed on the Tylenol labeling and packaging. These dangers were reported in a September 2013 episode of This American Life entitled "Use Only as Directed" and in two investigative articles in ProPublica
This American Life reported that "acetaminophen, the active ingredient in Tylenol ... kills the most people [of any over-the-counter drug], according to data from the federal government. Over 150 Americans die each year". This assessment conflicts with assessments in the medical literature, which suggest that the most commonly used alternative to acetaminophen, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (including naproxen, ibuprofen, and aspirin) cause 3200 deaths and 32,000 hospitalizations each year due to gastric bleeding alone. Other estimates place the number of NSAID-related deaths from gastric bleeding as high as 16,000 per year.  The apparent discrepancy may arise because the PBS assessment relied exclusively on reports from poison control centers. Such centers are unlikely to report gastric bleeding episodes as NSAID-related, as such episodes may be caused by factors other than NSAID use, and are associated more closely with chronic use rather than acute overdose.
ProPublica reported that the "FDA has long been aware of studies showing the risks of acetaminophen. So has the maker of Tylenol, McNeil Consumer Healthcare, a division of Johnson & Johnson" and "McNeil, the maker of Tylenol ... has repeatedly opposed safety warnings, dosage restrictions and other measures meant to safeguard users of the drug." This included warnings of liver damage and warnings about using acetaminophen in combination with alcohol. This is especially dangerous because of acetaminophen's narrow safety margin. ProPublica interviewed a man who had liver failure after using Tylenol in the recommended dose and drinking two or three glasses of wine, at a time when the Tylenol label didn't mention any dangers of drinking.
Acetaminophen, including Tylenol, causes three times as many cases of liver failure as all other drugs combined, and is the most common cause of acute liver failure in the United States, accounting for 39% of cases.All Men, Are not Created Equal...
there is Alpha,
and then there is the rest..
- 03-01-2014, 10:11 PM
03-01-2014, 10:13 PM
03-01-2014, 11:55 PM
03-02-2014, 12:05 AM
The funny thing is NSAIDs are OTC, not prescribed. You can only use NSAIDs is you use them by choice. In other words, people are dying from their own choice to use these things. First people want more control over what they putin their body. Now they get it and some people get side effects (which are written as warnings right on the bottle). What exactly do you anti-government people want...more freedom, or less? More safety regulations and loss of control over your actions, or less? People can't seem to make up their minds.
03-02-2014, 12:07 AM
Also, tylenol, the #1 cause of fulminant hepatitis as you bolded, only has this effect if overdosed. Again, the fault of the consumer, not the government. NSAIDs have revolutionized improvements in quality of life for millions of people...are you saying we should withdraw them because people overdose?
03-02-2014, 12:12 AM
People don't view these things as real "drugs" and pop em like skittles without either knowing or caring about the long term consequences.
03-02-2014, 12:38 AM
I like how this post starts with "just do your research" and then proceeds to be a complete copy and paste from wikipedia
03-02-2014, 04:32 AM
03-02-2014, 04:34 AM
03-02-2014, 04:45 AM
03-02-2014, 05:25 AM
03-02-2014, 05:43 AM
At some point though, and I don't know if PHs/DSs are that inflection point, you just have to recognize there are a lot of stupid people in the world that are going to hurt themselves with their own stupidity. Although they keep trying, you can't legislate against every single substance that foolish people are going to harm themselves with.
03-02-2014, 06:36 AM
yes i did cut and past it was the easy button . ...and after spending hours on the FDA, CFD. pro publica, web sights to find out if this where true. i found there where a lot more otc drug deaths out there...
i also found out that there is less than 5 Anabolic steroid deaths a year.. any body know that. and most are because they are dumb asses.
and i do agree you cant fix stupid... hell if you eat to much nutmeg it can kill you..lol
i guess what im trying to say here is it pisses me off when people are so blind and dead set on trying to make AS/PH peptides sups even more illegal when there are worst things out there that are otc... after discussing this with some friends...the comment was made that the AS community doesn't have a leg to stand on.. i called bull **** and went hunting and found..... less people die from A.S.then all most any other drugs.... we where all shocked ...if any thing they should all be legal ...IMHO just ranting and pissed really. looking for a better solution than more bands.
All Men, Are not Created Equal...
there is Alpha,
and then there is the rest..
03-02-2014, 08:46 AM
If people read the label it clearly states the dosage at which gi bleeding occurs.... I don't understand, let the stupid people be stupid. Why take an effective drug off the market because a few dumbasses take to many and bleed out their gi tract?
You seem like the type of person to let one guy ruin it for everyone. Just like steroids, if you over dose those then you'll have a slew of internal issues.
Using any drug properly is the only way to ensure your safety. (Minus allergies and odd reactions etc)
03-02-2014, 01:34 PM
03-02-2014, 02:07 PM
03-02-2014, 02:28 PM
All that's needed is better public/consumer education in regards to NSAID use(won't save everyone, but whatever). Most people have an inkling that they are "bad" for the liver, but not a clear enough idea of what "bad" really is..eg. combined with the additional toxic insult of alcohol, other drugs, or overdosing. In many cases, chronic overdosing of NSAIDs reflects desperation for pain control and I'm not going to write those people off as stupid.
03-02-2014, 02:35 PM
03-02-2014, 03:22 PM
I have said since I was in high school that drug laws don't make any sense. In reality, the only reason to make a drug illegal is because it posses an economic cost to society - it's use causes deaths, lost work, increased crime, whatever. Alcohol and cigarettes are THE two drugs that have created the greatest economic cost to society and yet they are legal and often not even thought of as drugs. Even better, they serve very little "functional" purpose.
If alcohol and cigarettes are legal, why are cocaine and heroin legal? Many people will say, "Safety" or "You can get addicted so easily", or some such rubbish, but I suspect the people on this board realize that safety is not a line in the sand and is always moving, and you can get addicted to many drugs. I'm not backing the use of hard drugs by any means and I have never really even drank much, but people have a completely uneducated view on drugs and chemicals and more laws are not the answer.
Also, not to get political - but I am a conservative and not a fan of Howard Zinn - but his book clearly shows that the FDA was NEVER intended to protect consumers.
The FDA was started under Teddy Roosevelt. Long story short, the meat companies packed rotten beef into cans that were being shipped to the military for war-time rations. There was no war, so they figured they would use the rotten meat and no one would eat it. We then got involved in a war, more people died from rotten canned meat than the war itself, and Europeans would no longer eat American made meat (one of our largest exports). The meat companies lobbied Roosevelt to create a "watchdog" so that the Europeans would believe the problem was solved and consumer confidence would be restored. They knew what the problem was all along, and it was solved, but this was a way out and Roosevelt began what later became the FDA.
03-02-2014, 04:01 PM
Agreed. I'm not arguing for any sort of ban on anything but I think if you're going to sell poison, you are at least semi-responsible for letting the consumer know what they are buying into. Same rationale for GMO foods..some are great, some not so good, but the public deserves to have the choice without having to do detective work.
03-02-2014, 05:49 PM
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