Increasing Effectiveness of N-Couma (C20) by COMT Inhibiti

[Grayson]

Increase Effectiveness of N-Couma (C20) by COMT Inhibition

I bought 3 bottles of Compound 20 during the thanksgiving nutra sale and I was thinking of selling it amidst all the info surrounding N-Coumaroyldopamine and how it's not effective. I found this, though: ä¸*国

It's some page for genabolix, a research firm. Anyhoo, they have a product called "cocoabuterol" which is a mix of N-Coumaroyldopamine, N-Caffeoyldopamine, EGCG, and Theobromine.

Now, we already know the first 2 and High Tower Pharmacology: Pharmacology of N-Coumaroyldopamine already tears it to shreds. But the EGCG is an interesting addition because it supposedly increases the effectiveness of the first 2 ingredients.

However, use of N-coumaroyldopamine is limited due to its rapid metabolism by catechol-o-methyltransferase (COMT). Thus, COMT inhibitors have the potential to inhibit N-coumaroyldopamine metabolism, thereby prolonging the half-life upon ingestion. Epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), also an ingredient from Cocoa or chocolate, demonstrates a higher relative degree of COMT inhibition, with an IC50 of about 0.2 μM [SUP][16][/SUP]. Therefore, in our product of Cocoabuterol, EGCG is present together with an N-coumaroyldopamine composition, which substantially inhibits unwanted N-coumaroyldopamine metabolism.

And this is the article it cites: http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/31/5/572.full.pdf

I'm thinking of trying this out and adding a dose of EGCG to each bi-daily dose of C20... that is if I decide to take it.

Thoughts? Discussions?

​

 

[mountainman33]

That is interesting. I have some MAN PR-XT I'm running in the near future. I'll have to add EGCG (via green tea pills?) during that run.

 

[Grayson]

That is interesting. I have some MAN PR-XT I'm running in the near future. I'll have to add EGCG (via green tea pills?) during that run.

That's what I was thinking. Although it doesn't list the ratio of egcg to n-c, I'd figure 250-300mg of egcg should cover each dose?

I'll be running C-20 with EGCG and maybe l-dopa (since n-c is a derivative) as mini log.

 

[mr.cooper69]

EGCG won't help. You need upwards of 5g

 

[mr.cooper69]

A better strategy than natural COMT inhibition (natural products generally suck at this) is to simply saturate the enzyme with a higher dose

 

[mountainman33]

A better strategy than natural COMT inhibition (natural products generally suck at this) is to simply saturate the enzyme with a higher dose

Sounds exspensive.....

 

[DR.D]

I have yet to find anything that makes N-CD work orally. It might work if MEed but I doubt it. It might also work parenterally, but I'm not gonna try it.

 

[McBurly]

I have yet to find anything that makes N-CD work orally. It might work if MEed but I doubt it. It might also work parenterally, but I'm not gonna try it.

/gasp
he is still around

dont often see old school people on these forums

 

[HIT4ME]

This thread was timely for me. I am planning to stock up on some stuff when I get a little more money in a couple weeks, and I was thinking a nice Norcodrene/Alphamine mix to either run together in some way, or one after the other. Then I came across Diablo, and both formulas have their strengths - Alphamine having COMPT and HICA being the two ingredients Diablo is lacking. The HICA doesn't bother me, I know it spares muscle, but I take in protein as much as possible and I'm not sold on it yet...I don't know much about the COMPT.

I have run alphamine and after not liking it initially, I have changed my mind and actually like a lot now. I was looking forward to a second bottle. I think the limiting factor for me will be the Yohimbine content though, since I am sensitive. Taking the Diablo with the Norcodrene would only overlap the higenemine, which may still be a mistake...but I don't think I'm overly sensitive to that ingredient.

 

[Grayson]

I have yet to find anything that makes N-CD work orally. It might work if MEed but I doubt it. It might also work parenterally, but I'm not gonna try it.

Hmm... interesting...

This might be an expensive experiment, but what about emptying the contents into a transdermal delivery system (i.e. Iron Legion Salvo) and taking it that way?

 

[DR.D]

Hmm... interesting...

This might be an expensive experiment, but what about emptying the contents into a transdermal delivery system (i.e. Iron Legion Salvo) and taking it that way?

Yes, it's expensive in product form, with no discernible benefits or side effects at all! Just nothing, at least that I can tell.

When it became available in bulk I decided to evaluate it. The pharmacokinetics looked extremely impractical, and the pharmacodynamics of related molecules never got me that excited, plus it was only getting hyped from a particular company which is notorious for such stunts, but I decided to elavuate it anyway because you never know until you try. N-Caffeoyldopamine was available too, but N-Coumaroyldopamine looked like the better candidate so that's what I chose to assess first. My dose range has covered 50-1,000mg/d orally in single and BID formats. I've used all types of synergists concomitantly, absorption enhancers, enzyme inhibitors, with meal/without meal, you name it. Nothing works. Same thing with Aegeline. It just doesn't work.

Transdermal might work, but I think it's reasonable to anticipate low efficacy. The molecule is very polar and has stability issues too, so it would likely be a challenge to find an optimal carrier (but it could be done with a strong enough desire to do it I suppose.) Even so, I'm not sure the intrinsic qualitative benefits that are claimed for this compound are worth it. My gut suspicion is that a company wasted a good bit of R&D money developing this concept, and realized it didn't work, but decided to hype and market it anyway to recover as much of the loss as they could before people realized it didn't work. The manufacturer must have gotten stranded with a lot of it too, because they started pimping these compounds faster than usual which means the company who originally ordered it stopped placing orders, so the vendors have to cover their production related losses too and dump the inventory somewhere. No matter what the story is though, I am thoroughly disappointed in these compounds and that's the bottom line.

Now if it was acetylated at all 4 positions of the rings, that might solve the whole issue, but talking to these vendors I don't get the impression that's around the corner at all. With the ineffectiveness of these compounds, and with the bad press on aegeline, I anticipate that this line of adrenergics will soon go the way of the nickle cigar.