HICA as an anticatabolic agent

JudoJosh

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For a brief period HMB supplementation had quite a bit of popularity but that quickly died out after researched failed to demonstrate it being effective in trained individuals. Now what about other leucine metabolites? Many of you guys here are no stranger to Alphamine and as a result alpha-hydroxy-isocaproic acid (HICA) has gained some attention. But is their evidence to support HICA supplementation or will this leucine metabolite suffer the same fate as HMB.

A few years back there was a study posted in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition titled, "Effects of alfa-hydroxy-isocaproic acid on body composition, DOMS and performance in athletes". What the authors of this paper attempted to do was to try and validate HICA as a valid anti-catabolic substance.

They recruited 15 active males (soccer players) and gave them either HICA at 583 milligrams, three times a day or a placebo (650 mg of maltodextrin). The study ran for 4 weeks and during this time the participants participated in their normal daily activities (weight trainings, soccer practice, etc). Not only were they active but a dietary record was also maintained and monitored. The average macronutrient intake amongst both groups was, protein 119 ± 37 g, carbohydrate 341 ± 87 g, and fat 82 ± 23 g.

So we have 15 physically active guys separated into two groups. One group given HICA and the other given placebo. Training and nutrition were both monitored and there was no significant difference in either category between the groups.

After the 4 weeks was up the researchers the body composition and strength of all participants. What they found was that the placebo group lost lean body mass (lbm) while the HICA group actually gained lbm (HICA: before 62.2 ± 6.7 and after 62.5 ± 6.5 PLACEBO: before 62.2 ± 4.9 and after 62.2 ± 4.6) Fat mass in both groups remained constant. It is also worth mentioning that this increase in lbm was in the soccer players legs which is pretty impressive I would say considering their sport is pretty taxing to the leg muscles and their training isn't exactly for hypertrophy.

So it appears HICA does have some validity as an anti-catabolic (protein sparing) compound as well as contributing to some muscle gains.

Full text of the study - JISSN | Full text | Effects of alfa-hydroxy-isocaproic acid on body composition, DOMS and performance in athletes

NOTE: To my knowledge this has not yet been duplicated and while it would be nice to see someone replicate the results this is still an actual human in vivo study demonstrating effectiveness which is more than what we can say about the majority of the supplement ingredients on the market today.
 
Driven2lift

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And luckily PES has a few products featuring it, since my first run with Alphamine I noticed the difference. Normally a burner + caloric deficit would have me losing muscle mass but by the end of my cut using Alphamine I had maintained more
 
Hansel

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And luckily PES has a few products featuring it, since my first run with Alphamine I noticed the difference. Normally a burner + caloric deficit would have me losing muscle mass but by the end of my cut using Alphamine I had maintained more
Nice! Got a fresh tub at home waiting on me.
 

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I'd call it more of an anabolic/repartitioning agent than anything else. The study shows that both groups gained weight, but the HICA group gained it all as muscle while the placebo group dropped some muscle and gained mostly fat. In other words, HICA seems to put the calories to better use
 
JudoJosh

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I'd call it more of an anabolic/repartitioning agent than anything else. The study shows that both groups gained weight, but the HICA group gained it all as muscle while the placebo group dropped some muscle and gained mostly fat. In other words, HICA seems to put the calories to better use
Good observation, I missed that completely.
 
bdcc

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In vivo, human data demonstrating anti catabolism/anabolism makes this a no brainer for me to include during any cutting period.
 
aaronuconn

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Is it most optimal for 500mg 3x daily, or could you just do something along the lines of 1.5g pre-workout?
 
JudoJosh

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Is it most optimal for 500mg 3x daily, or could you just do something along the lines of 1.5g pre-workout?
Optimal dose is yet to be determined. In this specific study 0.5g three times a day is what was used but this doesn't necessarily mean it is the best way to take it.
 
blacklac

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Any plans on an Analyzed Supps HICA?
 

cbsharpe

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Nice read for sure..but I already knew about HICA's positive benefits....

Speaking of HICA, I have to reload on Amino IV. Ran out...love that stuff....
 
JudoJosh

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Nice read for sure..but I already knew about HICA's positive benefits....

Speaking of HICA, I have to reload on Amino IV. Ran out...love that stuff....
thanks.

The thread is more geared towards those who were unsure about HICA or those you dont bother to read citations. I know I dont always read them and considering is one is actually based on human data I figured it was worth sharing
 

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thanks.

The thread was more geared towards those who were unsure about HICA or those you dont bother to read citations. I know I dont always read them and considering is one is actually based on human data I figured it was worth sharing
Oh absolutely Josh...coudn't agree with you more!
 
Monte Brogan

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HMB?

Josh, nice post.

You mentioned HMB. I'm wondering if it has any utility whatsoever for trained athletes. Were all the stuides conducted on sedentary persons?

Is anyone still using it?

Monte
 
Driven2lift

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Josh, nice post.

You mentioned HMB. I'm wondering if it has any utility whatsoever for trained athletes. Were all the stuides conducted on sedentary persons?

Is anyone still using it?

Monte
It has had a bunch of conflicting results based on the test group age/training level/etc.
It lost steam when the testing on trained athletes fell flat.

Oddly other studies found it effective. JISSN has a lot of studies up.

Fact is that HICA IS proven to work, so between the two there is no contest if you want to use one.
 
Monte Brogan

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Josh, thanks! Will review with great interest. Already the first JISSN study you posted caught my eye:

"Position Statement: The International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN) bases the following position stand on a critical analysis of the literature on the use of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) as a nutritional supplement. The ISSN has concluded the following. 1. HMB can be used to enhance recovery by attenuating exercise induced skeletal muscle damage in trained and untrained populations. 2. If consuming HMB, an athlete will benefit from consuming the supplement in close proximity to their workout. 3. HMB appears to be most effective when consumed for 2 weeks prior to an exercise bout. 4. Thirty-eight mg·kg·BM-1 daily of HMB has been demonstrated to enhance skeletal muscle hypertrophy, strength, and power in untrained and trained populations when the appropriate exercise prescription is utilized. 5. Currently, two forms of HMB have been used: Calcium HMB (HMB-Ca) and a free acid form of HMB (HMB-FA). HMB-FA may increase plasma absorption and retention of HMB to a greater extent than HMB-CA. However, research with HMB-FA is in its infancy, and there is not enough research to support whether one form is superior. 6. HMB has been demonstrated to increase LBM and functionality in elderly, sedentary populations. 7. HMB ingestion in conjunction with a structured exercise program may result in greater declines in fat mass (FM). 8. HMB’s mechanisms of action include an inhibition and increase of proteolysis and protein synthesis, respectively. 9. Chronic consumption of HMB is safe in both young and old populations."

That is very interesting commentary. Shame it doesn't appear to do much for trained athletes...

Thanks again,
Monte
 
Monte Brogan

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It has had a bunch of conflicting results based on the test group age/training level/etc.
It lost steam when the testing on trained athletes fell flat.

Oddly other studies found it effective. JISSN has a lot of studies up.

Fact is that HICA IS proven to work, so between the two there is no contest if you want to use one.
Driven, I appreciate the info. Are you using HICA? If so, in what form?

Monte
 
Driven2lift

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Driven, I appreciate the info. Are you using HICA? If so, in what form?

Monte
Initially was using HICA-max after seeing how effective its inclusion in Alphamine was for me, due to lack if other options.
Now that it is gaining popularity I am sticking with PES for it.

Alphamine upon waking and AminoIV pre and intra workout.
 
Danes

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That study about hica is old news actually. Study done in finland...I love hica :)
 
JudoJosh

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That study about hica is old news actually. Study done in finland...I love hica :)
you must of missed the part where I said

A few years back there was a study posted in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition titled, "Effects of alfa-hydroxy-isocaproic acid on body composition, DOMS and performance in athletes".
And once again

The thread is more geared towards those who were unsure about HICA or those you dont bother to read citations. I know I dont always read them and considering is one is actually based on human data I figured it was worth sharing
 
Driven2lift

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Quickly finding Josh to be very factual, to the point, and without hesitation to correct others.

New PES rep is keeping the forum in check!
 
JudoJosh

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Quickly finding Josh to be very factual, to the point, and without hesitation to correct others.

New PES rep is keeping the forum in check!
lol, not really my intention and I apoligize if I come off that way.

Group hug?
 
TheMovement

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I actually regularly find these posting not only helpful but the straight to the point logic keeps me interested and ready to continue my own research elsewhere, good work Sir!
 
Monte Brogan

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Quickly finding Josh to be very factual, to the point, and without hesitation to correct others.

New PES rep is keeping the forum in check!
Some people on this thread need to get off his back (not you, Driven). Josh posts some interesting studies and for his efforts he gets "I know what HICA does" and "This is old news" responses. Glad those people are so aware, but others might not be and this board is about educating others.

Josh, please keep posting. The more we learn, the better.

Monte
 

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Some people on this thread need to get off his back (not you, Driven). Josh posts some interesting studies and for his efforts he gets "I know what HICA does" and "This is old news" responses. Glad those people are so aware, but others might not be and this board is about educating others.

Josh, please keep posting. The more we learn, the better.

Monte
I agree, I can personally appreciate the time it takes to educate the consumer and Josh has always done a great job, for years now
 
Monte Brogan

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Initially was using HICA-max after seeing how effective its inclusion in Alphamine was for me, due to lack if other options.Now that it is gaining popularity I am sticking with PES for it.Alphamine upon waking and AminoIV pre and intra workout.
Makes sense. I forgot about HICA's inclusion in AminoIV. Makes that product even more compelling.Monte
 
JudoJosh

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Awe you guys are making me blush...
 
JudoJosh

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FYI, if you havent signed up for the insider newsletter do it NOW! There will be a new deal via that newsletter soon that you guys are gonna wanna be in on
 
Monte Brogan

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I agree, I can personally appreciate the time it takes to educate the consumer and Josh has always done a great job, for years now
I also appreciate those who take time out of their days to share knowledge with others. And for the record, I hadn't seen the HICA or HMB studies that Josh posted. And I enjoyed reading them.

HMB has always intrigued me...lots of data, clear efficacy in some populations - but not much in trained athletes. Wonder if higher dosages might be useful...or if it simply does not work in certain groups.
 

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I also appreciate those who take time out of their days to share knowledge with others. And for the record, I hadn't seen the HICA or HMB studies that Josh posted. And I enjoyed reading them.

HMB has always intrigued me...lots of data, clear efficacy in some populations - but not much in trained athletes. Wonder if higher dosages might be useful...or if it simply does not work in certain groups.
HMB seems to work best if untrained or if engaging in an overreaching cycle as a trained athlete
 
Driven2lift

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FYI, if you havent signed up for the insider newsletter do it NOW! There will be a new deal via that newsletter soon that you guys are gonna wanna be in on
Will now be monitoring inbox like a Hawk.
 
bolt10

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cbsharpe

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Some people on this thread need to get off his back (not you, Driven). Josh posts some interesting studies and for his efforts he gets "I know what HICA does" and "This is old news" responses. Glad those people are so aware, but others might not be and this board is about educating others.

Josh, please keep posting. The more we learn, the better.

Monte
If you were referring to what I replied to Josh, you took it out of context my man. Josh knew I wasn't being smart or anything..so back off.
 
JudoJosh

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No keed for arguing fellas. How about we talk about what this new insider deal could be about.

Give you a hint.......


its gonna be awesome! :p
 
Driven2lift

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No keed for arguing fellas. How about we talk about what this new insider deal could be about.

Give you a hint.......

its gonna be awesome! :p
Awesome is at this point implied with insiders :)

We know new flavour of Alphamine is dropping soon but we were also told to expect something new this week so I am hoping Enhanced v2

With so much going on possibly even a new product/new alphamine combo
 

cbsharpe

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Shoot, I might as well give PES my credit card info right now for safe keeping being that I'm always going to order from them every month...sheesh!!! LOL!
 
Monte Brogan

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If you were referring to what I replied to Josh, you took it out of context my man. Josh knew I wasn't being smart or anything..so back off.
I don't remember who made the comments. If you made them then I was referring to you. But if you weren't being a smart a** like 90% of the fake tough guys on the Internet, then disregard it.

Monte
 
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Monte Brogan

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HMB seems to work best if untrained or if engaging in an overreaching cycle as a trained athlete
Cooper, thanks. About the latter, do you speculate that an overtrained athlete might derive some benefit?
 

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Cooper, thanks. About the latter, do you speculate that an overtrained athlete might derive some benefit?
No. Overtraining is a CNS phenomenon. Over-reaching is an acute period of consciously increasing work load
 

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