PWO carb choice

[Johnston]

I know this has been discussed before, but it's an issue I keep finding myself getting in to with people. Is there a consensus on what is the best choice for PWO carb? I've been taking Vitargo for past few months (30g PWO with protein), and all seems good. That's about to run out though, so I'm wondering if to get it again or if I'm just as well going with dex, malto, waxy maize, a banana or even instant oats. I know there is some debate over whether the PWO shake is even necessary (real food being the preference for some), but if nothing else it's a very convenient way for me to get protein/carbs in to meet my daily requirements, so I'm not looking to get in to the whole 'window of opportunity' debate and if there's any merit to that, just what the best PWO carb choice is, or if it really matters.

 

[Montego1]

I just eat about an hour before. Usually the meal has oats, blueberries and egg whites.

Peri workout nutrition is pretty important IMO. You're providing your body with nutrients that will be used to fuel your workout and feed your muscles. I don't think fast acting carbs are really needed pre workout though, unless you are training on an empty stomach rather soon after eating.

 

[Johnston]

PWO = post workout FYI.

I work out fasted (well, with BCAAs) mid morning.

I used to eat before and work out in the afternoon. Since switching my workouts have actually imoroved and I feel better for it. Anyway, that's all beside the point.

 

[RecompMan]

PWO = post workout FYI.

I work out fasted (well, with BCAAs) mid morning.

I think vitargo is good, but price pulls me away.

Carbion is a favorite if mine post workout

 

[Johnston]

Yeah it is costly, hence my hesitation. Not heard of carbion before. Is that some sort of barley starch thing?

 

[Touey]

Vitargo etc. being obsessive about some specific "thing" PWO it does not really matter. Go carbless PWO use Vitargo immediately after blah blah... How about eat nice well balanced meal with plenty of protein once you become hungry after lifting. You do not find it convenient to eat real food take the Vitargo only remember this is an aspect of health I think one should find/make time for.

 

[Johnston]

Vitargo etc. being obsessive about some specific "thing" PWO it does not really matter. Go carbless PWO use Vitargo immediately after blah blah... How about eat nice well balanced meal with plenty of protein once you become hungry after lifting. You do not find it convenient to eat real food take the Vitargo only remember this is an aspect of health I think one should find/make time for.

You're missing my point. I didn't want or need to get in to this debate. It's irrelevant. I do eat a well balanced meal not long after my workout, but the PWO shake is an easy and convenient way to get a good dose of carbs/protein in to my daily macros so I hit my targets (in ADDITION to real food). That's how I view it. This is not about the 'PWO shake debate', I'm simply asking about carb choice.

 

[RecompMan]

Yeah it is costly, hence my hesitation. Not heard of carbion before. Is that some sort of barley starch thing?

It's from all max. Cyclodextrins n stuff

 

[Touey]

You're missing my point. I didn't want or need to get in to this debate. It's irrelevant. I do eat a well balanced meal not long after my workout, but the PWO shake is an easy and convenient way to get a good dose of carbs/protein in to my daily macros so I hit my targets (in ADDITION to real food). That's how I view it. This is not about the 'PWO shake debate', I'm simply asking about carb choice.

then take the Vitargo or just eat more real food during meals to reach targets, it certainly is more pleasurable than downing waxy maize

 

[Johnston]

then take the Vitargo or just eat more real food during meals to reach targets, it certainly is more pleasurable than downing waxy maize

Well as I say the shake is a convenience thing for me. I have no issue with Vitargo. Never tried wazy maize though.

 

[BigKrabbe]

Give waxy maize a run bro. For the price you can't go wrong. On another forum a member tested his blood glucose taking vitargo, and then again using waxy maize and the difference was negligible on clearing.

 

[digitalducki]

Glycofuse? I tried a sample the other day I am thinking about getting some

 

[RecompMan]

Glycofuse? I tried a sample the other day I am thinking about getting some

That's not bad either

I actually forgot to buy it in my most recent purchase

 

[snagencyV2.0]

I know this has been discussed before, but it's an issue I keep finding myself getting in to with people.

sooo ... stop getting into it with ppl
who cares what ppl think about what you think?
:shrug:
you do what works for you

Is there a consensus on what is the best choice for PWO carb?

quite simply, no
there are many many different roads that lead to rome -- depending on how you wish to travel there
(ie individual goals/body types/metabolisms/preferences etc etc)
the best route you can ever hope to find, is one you have tried by trial & error yourself, to gain your own experience

and then, you can sit back and laff while watching all the silly bickering and arguing and nonsensical advice that everyone & their mother is throwing out there, claiming to be the "experts"

 

[Jiigzz]

sooo ... stop getting into it with ppl
who cares what ppl think about what you think?
:shrug:
you do what works for you
quite simply, no
there are many many different roads that lead to rome -- depending on how you wish to travel there
(ie individual goals/body types/metabolisms/preferences etc etc)
the best route you can ever hope to find, is one you have tried by trial & error yourself, to gain your own experience

and then, you can sit back and laff while watching all the silly bickering and arguing and nonsensical advice that everyone & their mother is throwing out there, claiming to be the "experts"

Too right.

I think people get caught up in the smallest of details far too often; i myself was definitely in that category, however i now do what works for me and i'm growing like never before.

OP, find a powder you like and run with it. Personally, i buy tubs of gatorade and make one drink for intra followed by a blueberry and creamed rice with yoghurt and milk post.

I've not used other carb products so i cant provide much input there

 

[02sixxer]

I know this has been discussed before, but it's an issue I keep finding myself getting in to with people. Is there a consensus on what is the best choice for PWO carb? I've been taking Vitargo for past few months (30g PWO with protein), and all seems good. That's about to run out though, so I'm wondering if to get it again or if I'm just as well going with dex, malto, waxy maize, a banana or even instant oats. I know there is some debate over whether the PWO shake is even necessary (real food being the preference for some), but if nothing else it's a very convenient way for me to get protein/carbs in to meet my daily requirements, so I'm not looking to get in to the whole 'window of opportunity' debate and if there's any merit to that, just what the best PWO carb choice is, or if it really matters.

I ve used waxy maize and oat blend in a shake. Or just simple weight gainer. Elite Mass contains carbs and protein.

I refuse to spend mega bucks on PWO carbs when I can have rice for $ .20.

 

[Johnston]

I know there isn't a definitive answer to this... as I say wasn't really looking for one... more just curiosity as to what other people do and have had results with.

 

[aaronuconn]

Poptarts post-workout work for me.

 

[breezy11]

Poptarts post-workout work for me.

Hot Fudge Sundae and Frosted PB work the best.

 

[aaronuconn]

Hot Fudge Sundae and Frosted PB work the best.

I heard pumpkin pie was the best for the gainz.

 

[Rostam]

I uses to add simple carbs to my PWO shake. Then when I joined this board some 10 years ago and reading some of BOBO 's posts, I is switched to oat. It worked very well, But it was not really tasty in shakes other than chocolate. Now I use sometimes oats and sometimes a mix of trehalose and palatinate. It's hard to find trehalose thought. Would be good if more companies sell bulk trehalose.

 

[bean5er]

I like to utilize carbs intra myself OP but that is besides the point

I've used Waxy maize post wo, Glycofuse as well. I'm also a fan of blending up some steel cut oats (raw) a banana and a protein of choice and drinking it as a big shake. This is fairly cheap and effective as well.

Good luck with your goals bud!

 

[Johnston]

I may give instant oats a go... dirt cheap. I'm not convinced the cost of Vitargo is worth it from all I've been reading lately tbh.

 

[bean5er]

I may give instant oats a go... dirt cheap. I'm not convinced the cost of Vitargo is worth it from all I've been reading lately tbh.

I agree here as well regarding Vitargo. Good luck bud.

 

[BB12]

Poptarts post-workout work for me.

^^Did this for like 6 weeks and had amazing results.^^


Nowadays... 1 Scoop of Ronnie Coleman ISO-Tropic & EFX KarboLyn!

 

[RecompMan]

^^Did this for like 6 weeks and had amazing results.^^

Nowadays... 1 Scoop of Ronnie Coleman ISO-Tropic & EFX KarboLyn!

I got so many carb powders to test will let you know how I like them

 

[kbayne]

Poptarts post-workout work for me.

Hot Fudge Sundae and Frosted PB work the best.

Red velvet cake is where it's at.

I go with rice crispy treats sometimes also.

 

[Johnston]

From everything I've read, the whole high-GI thing seems to be nonsense unless you're a hard core professional athlete or training multiple times a day. For most people, any carb will do, food, powder, whatever.

 

[RecompMan]

From everything I've read, the whole high-GI thing seems to be nonsense unless you're a hard core professional athlete or training multiple times a day. For most people, any carb will do, food, powder, whatever.

No no

Growth wise; it's. not only about replenishing glycogen. Or increasing MPS via mtor but increasing IGF1 levels. Yea I have Formula for that for post workout carbs along with increasing post prandial lipolysis

 

[Johnston]

No no Growth wise; it's. not only about replenishing glycogen. Or increasing MPS via mtor but increasing IGF1 levels. Yea I have Formula for that for post workout carbs along with increasing post prandial lipolysis

So some carbs will make you grow and others won't?

 

[kbayne]

So some carbs will make you grow and others won't?

Some are better / faster then others.

 

[Johnston]

Some are better / faster then others.

And in your experience, going by your previous post, your preference is sucrose based, i.e 50% glucose 50% fructose?

 

[kbayne]

And in your experience, going by your previous post, your preference is sucrose based, i.e 50% glucose 50% fructose?

Yes. Doesn't bloat me or anything like that.

 

[ion26]

I usually have a couple of bananas with a protein shake.

 

[Touey]

interesting read - http://www.tmuscle.co.uk/threads/carbless-post-workout-info-by-conwict.4754/ = including - "First, a few words about glycogen and carb consumption. For years, and to this day, supplement and “recovery drink” companies push sugary post-workout drinks on people who lift weights and do sports, to “replenish glycogen.” In fact, people argue about the “speed” of various carb sources to replenish glygocen. Replenishing muscle and liver glycogen is not necessary to induce protein synthesis or recovery; in fact, there is no need to replenish glycogen until the next physical activity session, if then."

 

[Rostam]

interesting read - http://www.tmuscle.co.uk/threads/carbless-post-workout-info-by-conwict.4754/ = including - "First, a few words about glycogen and carb consumption. For years, and to this day, supplement and "recovery drink" companies push sugary post-workout drinks on people who lift weights and do sports, to "replenish glycogen." In fact, people argue about the "speed" of various carb sources to replenish glygocen. Replenishing muscle and liver glycogen is not necessary to induce protein synthesis or recovery; in fact, there is no need to replenish glycogen until the next physical activity session, if then."

These are plenty of old posts and articles posted at AM showing no benefit from high GI carbs vs low GI. I've used both seen no difference in term of gain or performance. Now I use a mix of low (palatinose), medium (trehalose) and small quantity of high (maltodextrine) GI carbs. And this is just a taste preference. Not taking into account the taste I'd use grounded oat. I still do that sometimes.

 

[Rostam]

Unfortunately supplement companies are still trying to promote fast carbs just because it's tastier and easier for them to formulate shakes and powders and promote them as the supplement of the year..

One note on palatinose. Although I use it in my shakes I'm not real fan of it just because like supra lose it's 50% glucose and 50% fructose. And I try to limit my fructose intake.

 

[RecompMan]

Unfortunately supplement companies are still trying to promote fast carbs just because it's tastier and easier for them to formulate shakes and powders and promote them as the supplement of the year..

One note on palatinose. Although I use it in my shakes I'm not real fan of it just because like supra lose it's 50% glucose and 50% fructose. And I try to limit my fructose intake.

It's isomaltulose. It's a bit different

 

[RecompMan]

So some carbs will make you grow and others won't?

All aid growth. But work differently on growth factors with specific aminos and ingredients

 

[Whacked]

Do tell ! And while you're at it; please discuss your opinion on fructose as well.

Fructose is largely maligned in the bodybuilding community these days and I'm not so certain I subscribe to the surface-level bro-logic asserted about fructose being disadvantageous (preferential liver replenishment) as being "that" big of a deal with respect to carb/insulin fascinated anabolism. I just don't buy that the body is that "siimple".

Thanks E!

No no Growth wise; it's. not only about replenishing glycogen. Or increasing MPS via mtor but increasing IGF1 levels. Yea I have Formula for that for post workout carbs along with increasing post prandial lipolysis

 

[Johnston]

I've read much of the science and many so called studies purporting the benefits of fast acting carbs, but in all the years I've never seen or heard of anyone in the real world saying "oats did nothing for me, but by changing nothing else except adding [insert new fangled expensive fast acting carb product here] I got ripped and gained more lean muscle than I could have dreamed of!" On the contrary, anecdotally the vast majority see no difference regardless of carb source.

I don't think the science is completely bunk per se, I just don't see any evidence that in real world terms, for the average person, the difference will be anything but negligible at best.

 

[aaronuconn]

I've read much of the science and many so called studies purporting the benefits of fast acting carbs, but in all the years I've never seen or heard of anyone in the real world saying "oats did nothing for me, but by changing nothing else except adding [insert new fangled expensive fast acting carb product here] I got ripped and gained more lean muscle than I could have dreamed of!" On the contrary, anecdotally the vast majority see no difference regardless of carb source. I don't think the science is completely bunk per se, I just don't see any evidence that in real world terms, for the average person, the difference will be anything but negligible at best.

At the end of the day, it won't matter too much what your post workout carb choice is in regards to body composition if all other factors (training, rest of diet, etc) are consistent.

 

[Rostam]

It's isomaltulose. It's a bit different

Isomaltulose = palatinose

Palatinose is Isomaltulose trade name.

What do you mean it's a bit different?

 

[Rostam]

At the end of the day, it won't matter too much what your post workout carb choice is in regards to body composition if all other factors (training, rest of diet, etc) are consistent.

It does matter in term of insulin release and fat gain.

 

[Touey]

These are plenty of old posts and articles posted at AM showing no benefit from high GI carbs vs low GI. I've used both seen no difference in term of gain or performance. Now I use a mix of low (palatinose), medium (trehalose) and small quantity of high (maltodextrine) GI carbs. And this is just a taste preference. Not taking into account the taste I'd use grounded oat. I still do that sometimes.

I believe perhaps you may have missed the “Carbless Post-workout” protocol point on the read

 

[snagencyV2.0]

It does matter in term of insulin release and fat gain.

i'll agree with this guy
but then this opens the discussion of timing (not only macro timing but by relation meal timing), and there are just some ppl you cannot get to wrap their head around this concept, and it creates arguments....for every dedicated person who understand and practices this advanced concept, you'll have 5 that argue that "timing doesn't matter, it's all about what you eat the entire day" and "IIFYM"
unfortunately, while I adamantly disagree with these "basic" levels of mass understanding, there are a great many proponents of such ... very polarizing issue to get into
hence, back to: do what works for you, and don't worry about what the guy next you is doing or saying
it really doesn't matter, if you are happy with what you do

 

[Jiigzz]

It does matter in term of insulin release and fat gain.

The last place carbs will go post workout is to fat storage.

 

[keithgeiling]

It does matter in term of insulin release and fat gain.

many guys on here will argue that statement. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fast/slow carb iifym debate and the significance of insulin release. I don't know if I'm smarter or dumber than I was on this subject opposed to a month ago?

 

[snagencyV2.0]

I don't know if I'm smarter or dumber than I was on this subject opposed to a month ago?

funny how that happens round here, ain't it?

 

[snagencyV2.0]

The last place carbs will go post workout is to fat storage.

only to a point jiigzz..not a blank check with which to write whatever amount or source of carbs you want