BCAAs reduce fatigue via decreased 5-HT synthesis

JudoJosh

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At least that's what Eva Blomstrand suggest in her paper A Role for Branched-Chain Amino Acids in Reducing Central Fatigue.

The theory is that exercise increases the uptake of tryptophan by the brain leading to increased 5-HT levels which has been suggested to cause fatigue.

Exercise causes an increase in neurotransmitter release. Among those neurotransmitters is 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) which is involved in the control of arousal, sleepiness, mood and possibly fatigue. Exercise also causes an increased uptake of BCAAs to the muscle, which decreases plasma concentration. Exercise also elevates the plasma level of fatty acids and typtophan. The author postulates that by elevating the plasma concentration of BCAAs it will decrease the transport of tryptophan into the brain. This decrease in tryptophan is relevant because the rate-limiting step in the synthesis of 5-HT is the transport of tryptophan across the blood–brain barrier.

So by increasing plasma concentration of BCAAs it will reduce the uptake of tryptophan by the brain and consequently reduce 5-HT synthesis which will result in the delay of fatigue.
 
JudoJosh

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Looks like a pretty good reason to continue supplementing with aminos intra-workout as they could possibly do more then just provide a substrate to be utilized as fuel during workouts.

Hopefully nattydisaster or nutraplanet has a sale on AminoIV + norcodrene soon. That would be an awesome combo especially considering Norcodrene can increase work capacity while AminoIV can reduce workout fatigue. Would make for a decent performance enhancement stack ;)
 
bioman

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It is definitely 5-HT's fault that I fatigue so easily:)

I would think that BCAA's reduce fatigue/boost endurance along multiple pathways, but the 5-HT reduction could be one of them. Waiting with baited breath for the smarter people to chime in.
 
Mikeyjd

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At least that's what Eva Blomstrand suggest in her paper A Role for Branched-Chain Amino Acids in Reducing Central Fatigue.

The theory is that exercise increases the uptake of tryptophan by the brain leading to increased 5-HT levels which has been suggested to cause fatigue.

Exercise causes an increase in neurotransmitter release. Among those neurotransmitters is 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) which is involved in the control of arousal, sleepiness, mood and possibly fatigue. Exercise also causes an increased uptake of BCAAs to the muscle, which decreases plasma concentration. Exercise also elevates the plasma level of fatty acids and typtophan. The author postulates that by elevating the plasma concentration of BCAAs it will decrease the transport of tryptophan into the brain. This decrease in tryptophan is relevant because the rate-limiting step in the synthesis of 5-HT is the transport of tryptophan across the blood–brain barrier.

So by increasing plasma concentration of BCAAs it will reduce the uptake of tryptophan by the brain and consequently reduce 5-HT synthesis which will result in the delay of fatigue.

And hunger!!


And by reducing AgRP you can repress adipogenesis

http://m.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/293/1/E165.long
Personal recommendation on when to take and how much? I know that data exist's, I'm just not proficient at finding it yet :)

EG:
Meal 1: 6-7am
5-10g BCAA 8-9am
Meal 2: 10-11am
5-10g BCAA 12-1pm
Meal 3: 2-3pm
5-10g BCAA 4-5pm (Workout starts at 4)
Meal 4: 6-7pm
5-10g BCAA 8-9pm or maybe wait till 10 and have another whole meal?

Thoughts?
 
JudoJosh

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This research applies specifically to peri workout conditions. Remember it is the act of exercising which results in decreased BCAAs and increased tryptophan. For this enviroment it may be wise to supplement with BCAAs in hopes of decreasing tryptophan transport. Outside of exercising you shouldnt have this enviroment so supplementing with BCAAs wouldnt make sense of the goal is reducing 5HT synthesis. Now thats not to say that it is pointless to supplement with aminos outside of peri-workout as there is an idea that it can increase MPS.

That said all those 10g supplementation inbetween meals are probably unnecessary
 
Mikeyjd

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This research applies specifically to peri workout conditions. Remember it is the act of exercising which results in decreased BCAAs and increased tryptophan. For this enviroment it may be wise to supplement with BCAAs in hopes of decreasing tryptophan transport. Outside of exercising you shouldnt have this enviroment so supplementing with BCAAs wouldnt make sense of the goal is reducing 5HT synthesis. Now thats not to say that it is pointless to supplement with aminos outside of peri-workout as there is an idea that it can increase MPS.

That said all those 10g supplementation inbetween meals are probably unnecessary
Do you know what amount would be recommended for extending MPS? Also I know there is the idea that trying to prolong MPS before AA levels drop can cause elongation of the refractory period. Do you know if this would apply to BCAA's or if that somehow works via a different mechanism?
 
JudoJosh

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Do you know what amount would be recommended for extending MPS? Also I know there is the idea that trying to prolong MPS before AA levels drop can cause elongation of the refractory period. Do you know if this would apply to BCAA's or if that somehow works via a different mechanism?
Honestly I am not sure. Have you read Nortons hypothesis on the subject yet?
 
Mikeyjd

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Honestly I am not sure. Have you read Nortons hypothesis on the subject yet?
I was looking around for it, but came up empty. I'll just keep digging and report back if I find the answer.
 
Mikeyjd

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I was looking around for it, but came up empty. I'll just keep digging and report back if I find the answer.
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf

"What I am implying is that it is better to consume larger protein doses spaced further apart and maximize protein synthesis, rather than consuming smaller doses of protein throughout the day, since research has shown that protein synthesis will become refractory to constantly elevated levels of amino acids. It may be that a period where amino acids return to baseline or near baseline is required in order to initiate another bout of protein synthesis. I therefore suggest that one consume 4-6 larger protein doses per day instead of 6-8 meals and wait 4-5 hours between meals rather than 2-3 hours."

"At the moment, we have no clear way to overcome the refractory response. However, there is evidence that supplementing with free form amino acids with carbohydrates between meals may improve protein synthesis compared to normal meals alone. It is possible that a free form amino acid supplement could spike plasma levels of amino acids to a far greater level than can be achieved with whole foods and perhaps this supraphysiological response is enough to overcome the refractory response. It is also possible that the carbohydrates in the supplement have an effect. The insulin time course in the experiment we performed lasted 3 hours, the same as protein synthesis. Additionally, Wolfe et al. also showed that the time course of insulin seemed to track protein synthesis during an essential amino acid infusion5. Perhaps maintaining elevated plasma insulin levels is required to prolong protein synthesis in response to a meal. In either case, it appears that supplementing with an amino acid supplement containing ~2-3g of leucine along with some carbohydrates (~20-30g) is an effective way to maximize muscle protein synthesis."
 
tcslick

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At least that's what Eva Blomstrand suggest in her paper A Role for Branched-Chain Amino Acids in Reducing Central Fatigue.

The theory is that exercise increases the uptake of tryptophan by the brain leading to increased 5-HT levels which has been suggested to cause fatigue.

Exercise causes an increase in neurotransmitter release. Among those neurotransmitters is 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) which is involved in the control of arousal, sleepiness, mood and possibly fatigue. Exercise also causes an increased uptake of BCAAs to the muscle, which decreases plasma concentration. Exercise also elevates the plasma level of fatty acids and typtophan. The author postulates that by elevating the plasma concentration of BCAAs it will decrease the transport of tryptophan into the brain. This decrease in tryptophan is relevant because the rate-limiting step in the synthesis of 5-HT is the transport of tryptophan across the blood–brain barrier.

So by increasing plasma concentration of BCAAs it will reduce the uptake of tryptophan by the brain and consequently reduce 5-HT synthesis which will result in the delay of fatigue.
I always take an intra-workout with aminos in it. It really does help to reduce fatigue during long workouts
 
RecompMan

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Do you know what amount would be recommended for extending MPS? Also I know there is the idea that trying to prolong MPS before AA levels drop can cause elongation of the refractory period. Do you know if this would apply to BCAA's or if that somehow works via a different mechanism?
Right but a protein meal alone at that time ~3 hours post meal it isn't enough to raise mps any higher but eaas or bcaa will.

Most of it is done via mtor
 
Mikeyjd

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Right but a protein meal alone at that time ~3 hours post meal it isn't enough to raise mps any higher but eaas or bcaa will.

Most of it is done via mtor
Is it because Leucine concentrations are greater than what we find in a whole food protein meal?
 

mr.cooper69

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Is it because Leucine concentrations are greater than what we find in a whole food protein meal?
It's because it enters the plasma compartment more rapidly than whole foods
 

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It is definitely 5-HT's fault that I fatigue so easily:)

I would think that BCAA's reduce fatigue/boost endurance along multiple pathways, but the 5-HT reduction could be one of them. Waiting with baited breath for the smarter people to chime in.
Yeah, the other pathway is simply that BCAAs are highly gluconeogenic/ketogenic/prone to oxidation since they enter the bloodstream so rapidly, plus energy demand is high during exercise. So that's the other pathway (essentially substituting for glucose)
 

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We should also note that the "crowding out" effect doesn't just apply to tryptophan, but all aromatic amino acids: tyrosine and phenylalanine included.
 
Mikeyjd

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Yeah, the other pathway is simply that BCAAs are highly gluconeogenic/ketogenic/prone to oxidation since they enter the bloodstream so rapidly, plus energy demand is high during exercise. So that's the other pathway (essentially substituting for glucose)
A few questions for you then. First, if BCAA's are ketogenic, does that mean that they aren't insulinogenic (I've heard otherwise, but that could just be misinformation)? And also, do you think BCAA's at a specific ratio, or straight Leucine would be optimal? Or does it not matter really?
 
RecompMan

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A few questions for you then. First, if BCAA's are ketogenic, does that mean that they aren't insulinogenic (I've heard otherwise, but that could just be misinformation)? And also, do you think BCAA's at a specific ratio, or straight Leucine would be optimal? Or does it not matter really?
There's 2 ketogenic aminos

Leucine and lysine

Leucine is insulinogenic in presence of carbohydrates
 

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A few questions for you then. First, if BCAA's are ketogenic, does that mean that they aren't insulinogenic (I've heard otherwise, but that could just be misinformation)? And also, do you think BCAA's at a specific ratio, or straight Leucine would be optimal? Or does it not matter really?
There's 2 ketogenic aminos

Leucine and lysine

Leucine is insulinogenic in presence of carbohydrates
This. Isoleucine is also conditionally ketogenic
 
JudoJosh

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FYI, if you havent signed up for the insider newsletter do it NOW! There will be a new deal via that newsletter soon that you guys are gonna wanna be in on
 

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