Help with D-AA/AI supplementation

[mirra250]

Hey guys
This is my first post here.
Basically I have just started D-AA supplementation as a natural way to boost my testosterone levels to particularly help cut body fat, but also to increase muscle gains, and I'm unsure whether it would be beneficial for me to commence with it an AI, such as Erase.
I'll give you a few details about myself:
Male, 21, Australian, natural
180cm (about 5'11''), 76kg (~168lb), currently sitting at approximately 12% BF
I have been training for about three years; but have only really been taking it seriously in the past 6 months as I have finally built up an expansive knowledge base (particularly on the nutrition side of things).
I am currently following the Leangains intermittent fasting diet - and have been for about 6 weeks with great results in terms of appetite management and lean muscle gains.

I'm a Science post-grad student (obesity research) and hence have an innate attraction to experimentation - subsequent to this, over my holidays I began D-AA supplementation more out of curiosity whether it actually works.
As with any research, I got baseline bloods done:
Testosterone (Total) - 20.2nmol/L (range 8.3-30.2)
Testosterone (Free) - 357pmol/L (range 225-725)
Sex hormone binding globulin - 45nmol/L (range 13-71)
- Clearly my bloods are completely normal.

Anyway; I'm posting for advice on two major concerns:
1) Firstly, I am not so much interested as gaining huge muscle mass - I already consider myself to have a good muscle base. I'm more interested in cutting those last few % BF until I have very little to no lower abdominal fat - something which I'd like to maintain. I do not do the typical bulk and then cut cycle... all I want is to simply slowly build muscle to a point not too far from where I currently stand, and slowly lose body fat at the same time (hence the IF diet).
SO - given I do not follow a bulk/cut type cycle, should I be cycling the D-AA? I.e. should I take it for 8 weeks, then stop for 4 weeks, then recommence for 8 weeks etc? Or is it fine to just continue taking it indefinitely (I understand long-term studies are few and far between - purely anecdotal evidence is fine)?
2) Should I commence an OTC anti-oestrogen (excuse the Australian spelling ) such as Erase/DIM? Is this necessary? Will this be beneficial or will it be destructive? And if you do recommend I use this, should I also cycle it? I understand that lowering oestrogen can lead to "dryness"... = sore joints?

Thanks so much in advance,
Paul

 

[Wilsy7]

Hey guys
This is my first post here.
Basically I have just started D-AA supplementation as a natural way to boost my testosterone levels to particularly help cut body fat, but also to increase muscle gains, and I'm unsure whether it would be beneficial for me to commence with it an AI, such as Erase.
I'll give you a few details about myself:
Male, 21, Australian, natural
180cm (about 5'11''), 76kg (~168lb), currently sitting at approximately 12% BF
I have been training for about three years; but have only really been taking it seriously in the past 6 months as I have finally built up an expansive knowledge base (particularly on the nutrition side of things).
I am currently following the Leangains intermittent fasting diet - and have been for about 6 weeks with great results in terms of appetite management and lean muscle gains.

I'm a Science post-grad student (obesity research) and hence have an innate attraction to experimentation - subsequent to this, over my holidays I began D-AA supplementation more out of curiosity whether it actually works.
As with any research, I got baseline bloods done:
Testosterone (Total) - 20.2nmol/L (range 8.3-30.2)
Testosterone (Free) - 357pmol/L (range 225-725)
Sex hormone binding globulin - 45nmol/L (range 13-71)
- Clearly my bloods are completely normal.

Anyway; I'm posting for advice on two major concerns:
1) Firstly, I am not so much interested as gaining huge muscle mass - I already consider myself to have a good muscle base. I'm more interested in cutting those last few % BF until I have very little to no lower abdominal fat - something which I'd like to maintain. I do not do the typical bulk and then cut cycle... all I want is to simply slowly build muscle to a point not too far from where I currently stand, and slowly lose body fat at the same time (hence the IF diet).
SO - given I do not follow a bulk/cut type cycle, should I be cycling the D-AA? I.e. should I take it for 8 weeks, then stop for 4 weeks, then recommence for 8 weeks etc? Or is it fine to just continue taking it indefinitely (I understand long-term studies are few and far between - purely anecdotal evidence is fine)?
2) Should I commence an OTC anti-oestrogen (excuse the Australian spelling ) such as Erase/DIM? Is this necessary? Will this be beneficial or will it be destructive? And if you do recommend I use this, should I also cycle it? I understand that lowering oestrogen can lead to "dryness"... = sore joints?

Thanks so much in advance,
Paul

Hi there,

This is going to be very interesting! Especially with the pre blood tests! reps!

The general advice for cycling DAA is as you've said 8 weeks on followed by 4 off. However many have run it up to 12 weeks followed by a 4 week break. It's up to yourself, but somewhere in that 8-12 week range will be spot on. What brand of DAA do you plan to run? Make sure it is sodium DAA if you can as this is regarded as the best type of DAA.

I personally would not recommend to run erase/erase pro alongside this as I've personally not noticed much from erase each time I've run it. Probably because I've never been in low single digit BF% to notice it. I had no joint issues while running it. It MAY help with your goals however. I'd wait for someone else to chime in on this. I personally felt the effects of DAA much more positive when run alone.

I would however run some Dopadex with the DAA. Good for some prolactin control and has even shown positive results for both Test and GH levels.

When do you next plan to get your bloods done? Might I suggest doing them twice, once half way through your cycle then again at the last week. Eg for a 10 week cycle, test at weeks 5 and 10.

HTH

 

[mirra250]

Hi there,

This is going to be very interesting! Especially with the pre blood tests! reps!

The general advice for cycling DAA is as you've said 8 weeks on followed by 4 off. However many have run it up to 12 weeks followed by a 4 week break. It's up to yourself, but somewhere in that 8-12 week range will be spot on. What brand of DAA do you plan to run? Make sure it is sodium DAA if you can as this is regarded as the best type of DAA.

I personally would not recommend to run erase/erase pro alongside this as I've personally not noticed much from erase each time I've run it. Probably because I've never been in low single digit BF% to notice it. I had no joint issues while running it. It MAY help with your goals however. I'd wait for someone else to chime in on this. I personally felt the effects of DAA much more positive when run alone.

I would however run some Dopadex with the DAA. Good for some prolactin control and has even shown positive results for both Test and GH levels.

When do you next plan to get your bloods done? Might I suggest doing them twice, once half way through your cycle then again at the last week. Eg for a 10 week cycle, test at weeks 5 and 10.

HTH

Haha thanks
Ok awesome, I will definitely cycle then. Is the cycling purely to ensure desensitisation doesn't occur?
I have AI Sports Nutrition D-AA, which, yes, is sodium D-AA
Interesting point on the Erase... yeah I'll wait to see what others have to say
And, unfortunately, like most supplements, Dopadex (or any L-Dopa supplement) is banned in Australia so don't think I'll be able to get on that . Thanks for the suggestion anyway!
And well I didn't have a specific date as to when to do the bloods the second time, but what you've suggested sounds ideal. Only problem is if I want to get them subsidised it will probably look really dodgy getting them done so frequently without any pathological condition requiring it haha; so i'll probably just do it at the end of the cycle (probably 10 weeks as you've suggested).

 

[Wilsy7]

Haha thanks
Ok awesome, I will definitely cycle then. Is the cycling purely to ensure desensitisation doesn't occur?
I have AI Sports Nutrition D-AA, which, yes, is sodium D-AA
Interesting point on the Erase... yeah I'll wait to see what others have to say
And, unfortunately, like most supplements, Dopadex (or any L-Dopa supplement) is banned in Australia so don't think I'll be able to get on that . Thanks for the suggestion anyway!
And well I didn't have a specific date as to when to do the bloods the second time, but what you've suggested sounds ideal. Only problem is if I want to get them subsidised it will probably look really dodgy getting them done so frequently without any pathological condition requiring it haha; so i'll probably just do it at the end of the cycle (probably 10 weeks as you've suggested).

I assume both desensitisation as well as not to allow your body to become dependant upon it.

Ah that sucks! lol

Looking forward to the results be sure to post them up!

Are you going to run a log?

 

[mirra250]

I assume both desensitisation as well as not to allow your body to become dependant upon it.

Ah that sucks! lol

Looking forward to the results be sure to post them up!

Are you going to run a log?

Yeah thought that may be the case.

Yeah I will defs post them. And ummm haha don't really know what running a log means haha. As in just post about the progress?

 

[Wilsy7]

Yeah thought that may be the case.

Yeah I will defs post them. And ummm haha don't really know what running a log means haha. As in just post about the progress?

Yeh there is a 'supplement log' section to post your progress as you go. Would be good to see how you get on

 

[mirra250]

Yeh there is a 'supplement log' section to post your progress as you go. Would be good to see how you get on

Oh ok maybe I should then. What am I meant to include in it?

 

[Wilsy7]

Oh ok maybe I should then. What am I meant to include in it?

Everything you want take a look at some others

 

[Hansel]

I second you doing a log man. Very few people get bloods before they run something. It would be nice to see what happens after 8 weeks of DAA.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Hey guys
Anyway; I'm posting for advice on two major concerns:
1) Firstly, I am not so much interested as gaining huge muscle mass - I already consider myself to have a good muscle base. I'm more interested in cutting those last few % BF until I have very little to no lower abdominal fat - something which I'd like to maintain. I do not do the typical bulk and then cut cycle... all I want is to simply slowly build muscle to a point not too far from where I currently stand, and slowly lose body fat at the same time (hence the IF diet).
SO - given I do not follow a bulk/cut type cycle, should I be cycling the D-AA? I.e. should I take it for 8 weeks, then stop for 4 weeks, then recommence for 8 weeks etc? Or is it fine to just continue taking it indefinitely (I understand long-term studies are few and far between - purely anecdotal evidence is fine)?
2) Should I commence an OTC anti-oestrogen (excuse the Australian spelling ) such as Erase/DIM? Is this necessary? Will this be beneficial or will it be destructive? And if you do recommend I use this, should I also cycle it? I understand that lowering oestrogen can lead to "dryness"... = sore joints?

Thanks so much in advance,
Paul

Hi Paul,
Thank you for posting this up. Both of these are best used on the 8 weeks on/4 weeks off protocol. I've had good success with DAA/Erase together and have primarily used them during recomps. If your goal though is to cut those last few percentages of BF, have you considered something like Alphamine or Alpha-T2 to add in as well?

 

[Aleksandar37]

Oh ok maybe I should then. What am I meant to include in it?

It's a great way to get ongoing feedback. And you can include as much or as little as you want and as frequently as you want.

 

[R1balla]

you can include your workout numbers, overall feeling, sleep, appetite, acne, libido, blood work...etc.

DAA with Erase is a very very solid option.

 

[warbird01]

DAA+Erase vote here.

Subbed for post supp blood tests. Thanks for doing this!

 

[mirra250]

Hi Paul,
Thank you for posting this up. Both of these are best used on the 8 weeks on/4 weeks off protocol. I've had good success with DAA/Erase together and have primarily used them during recomps. If your goal though is to cut those last few percentages of BF, have you considered something like Alphamine or Alpha-T2 to add in as well?

Ok cool thanks!
I have looked a little into both of those products but unfortunately they are both banned in Australia so can't access them. For all I know, Erase is probably banned too but I can't actually find anywhere that it is banned.

 

[mirra250]

Alright looks like I should do a log then thanks for the support guys! Sorry about newbness haha